History Main / UselessUsefulNonCombatAbilities

2nd Apr '17 3:29:35 PM Reymma
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** ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' adds to this by giving you different, often more fun ways to complete quests by using your Speech skill, as well as frequent, often useful bonuses. Also, if you work with Yes Man and have 100 Speech [[spoiler: you can literally [[Awesome/FalloutNewVegas ''talk'' two armies into backing down]]]]. ''New Vegas'''s Survival skill may appear to be this at first, replacing the aforementioned much-maligned Outdoorsman skill, but the ubiquity of food versus stimpaks and the utility of several of the campfire recipes makes it quite useful in normal mode and positively essential in hardcore mode, where the Courier must eat and sleep regularly and medicines are not as immediately effective.

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** ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' adds to this by giving you different, often more fun ways to complete quests by using your Speech skill, as well as frequent, often useful bonuses. Also, if you work with Yes Man and have 100 Speech [[spoiler: you can literally [[Awesome/FalloutNewVegas ''talk'' two armies into backing down]]]]. ''New Vegas'''s Survival skill may appear at first to be this at first, replacing duplicate the aforementioned much-maligned little-used Outdoorsman skill, but the ubiquity of food versus stimpaks and the utility of several of the campfire recipes makes it quite useful in normal mode and positively essential in hardcore mode, where the Courier must eat and sleep regularly and medicines are not as immediately effective.



** Druids used to have an ability that would reduce the [[ConspicuouslySelectivePerception Aggro Radius]] of [=NPCs=] with the Beast type. This was basically useless, because druids can become nearly invisible if they really need to avoid fights anyway. Around the time of Cataclysm, Blizzard recognized the problem and the ability was changed to a "tranquilize" effect, which removes Enrage buffs.

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** Druids used to have an ability Soothe Animal, that would reduce the [[ConspicuouslySelectivePerception Aggro Radius]] of [=NPCs=] with the Beast type. type enemies. This was basically useless, because druids can become nearly invisible if they really need to avoid fights anyway. Around the time of Cataclysm, Blizzard recognized the problem and anyway by using stealth. Cataclysm changed the ability was changed to a "tranquilize" effect, which removes removing Enrage buffs.buffs, and removed it entirely in Legion.
26th Jan '17 6:16:48 PM Vilui
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* Though most tabletop [=RPGs=] have stat for non-physical skills, most [=GMs=] won't let the characters solve social interactions with dice rolls. It doesn't matter if your [[ManipulativeBastard character]] has [[InformedAbility an amazing score in Persuasion]], you--the-player still have to make up their lies and be convincing. Dice are mostly there to help you get the desired result, they're not an automatic win. However, [=DMs=] will often treat an awesome roll/ability score as a license to get away with BlatantLies and be believed.

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* Though most tabletop [=RPGs=] have stat for non-physical skills, most [=GMs=] won't let the characters solve social interactions with dice rolls. It doesn't matter if your [[ManipulativeBastard character]] has [[InformedAbility an amazing score in Persuasion]], you--the-player still you--the player--still have to make up their lies and be convincing. Dice are mostly there to help you get the desired result, they're not an automatic win. However, [=DMs=] will often treat an awesome roll/ability score as a license to get away with BlatantLies and be believed.
22nd Jan '17 6:00:27 PM Quanyails
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* Though most tabletop [=RPGs=] have stat for non-physical skills, most [=GMs=] won't let the characters solve social interactions with dice rolls. It doesn't matter if your [[ManipulativeBastard character]] has [[InformedAbility an amazing score in Persuasion]], you-the-player still have to make up their lies and be convincing. Dice are mostly there to help you get the desired result, they're not an automatic win. However, [=DMs=] will often treat an awesome roll/ability score as a license to get away with BlatantLies and be believed.

to:

* Though most tabletop [=RPGs=] have stat for non-physical skills, most [=GMs=] won't let the characters solve social interactions with dice rolls. It doesn't matter if your [[ManipulativeBastard character]] has [[InformedAbility an amazing score in Persuasion]], you-the-player you--the-player still have to make up their lies and be convincing. Dice are mostly there to help you get the desired result, they're not an automatic win. However, [=DMs=] will often treat an awesome roll/ability score as a license to get away with BlatantLies and be believed.
5th Jan '17 1:26:44 PM DastardlyDemolition
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** ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'' at least averts some of the negative aspects of this trope: A successful speech check instead of killing a foe or using a computer to shut down a turret instead of blowing the turret up will net you the same amount of XP, if not more, than if you tried fighting.
** ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' adds to this by giving you different, often more fun ways to complete quests by using your speech skill, as well as frequent, often useful bonuses. Also, if you work with Yes Man and have 100 Speech [[spoiler: you can literally [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome ''talk'' two armies into backing down]]]]. ''New Vegas'''s Survival skill may appear to be this at first, replacing the aforementioned much-maligned Outdoorsman skill, but the ubiquity of food versus stimpaks and the utility of several of the campfire recipes makes it quite useful in normal mode and positively essential in hardcore mode, where the Courier must eat and sleep regularly and medicines are not as immediately effective.

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** ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'' at least averts some of the negative aspects of this trope: A successful speech Speech check instead of killing a foe or using a computer to shut down a turret instead of blowing the turret up will net you the same amount of XP, if not more, than if you tried fighting.
fighting. Barter is an aversion because it means you'll get better prices and better deals from merchants, something you'll need if you have low Strength.
** ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' adds to this by giving you different, often more fun ways to complete quests by using your speech Speech skill, as well as frequent, often useful bonuses. Also, if you work with Yes Man and have 100 Speech [[spoiler: you can literally [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome [[Awesome/FalloutNewVegas ''talk'' two armies into backing down]]]]. ''New Vegas'''s Survival skill may appear to be this at first, replacing the aforementioned much-maligned Outdoorsman skill, but the ubiquity of food versus stimpaks and the utility of several of the campfire recipes makes it quite useful in normal mode and positively essential in hardcore mode, where the Courier must eat and sleep regularly and medicines are not as immediately effective.
19th Dec '16 6:49:42 AM Spindriver
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* Lampshaded in the ''TabletopGame/GURPSDiscworld'' supplement, with the skill Astrozoology. Finding a use for the skill is left as an exercise for the player. Well, the only real buy there is the specialization astrochelonology, the study of [[TurtleIsland Star Turtles]], but as there's only one around, the study is kind of limited.

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* Lampshaded in the ''TabletopGame/GURPSDiscworld'' supplement, ''TabletopGame/DiscworldRolePlayingGame'', with the skill Academic Skills such as Astrozoology. Finding a use "Some may seem rarefied, even useless but roleplayers can be good at finding uses for the skill is left as an exercise for the player. Well, the only real buy there is the specialization astrochelonology, the study of [[TurtleIsland Star Turtles]], but as there's only one around, the study is kind of limited.things."
27th Nov '16 1:19:31 AM Gadjiltron
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*** Unless it's the second game. Bashing a chest open will usually break something valuable. You may be able to get "parts" from it.

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*** Unless it's Averted in the second game. Bashing a chest open will usually break something valuable. You may valuable, leaving you with junk that can only be able to get "parts" from it.broken down for crafting parts. Picking any lock will also earn the player a small amount of experience.



*** The second game at least made Awareness useful for the main character by making it double as Sense Motive in conversations.
** ''Persuade'': It's helpful most of the time, and it's the only skill that you can't just delegate to a more specialized party member, but it's not going to help one whit in TheVeryDefinitelyFinalDungeon. That diplomacy-optimized Jedi Consular you built? Yeah, you're gonna have a rough time. Even worse, the actual success thresholds are all quite low in the early game, and later on it will be mostly supplanted by Force Persuade in any case.

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*** The second game at least made Awareness useful for the main character by making it double as Sense Motive in conversations.
for opening up different dialogue options.
** ''Persuade'': It's helpful most of the time, and it's the only skill that you can't just delegate to a more specialized party member, but it's not going to help one whit bit in TheVeryDefinitelyFinalDungeon. That diplomacy-optimized Jedi Consular you built? Yeah, you're gonna have a rough time. Even worse, the actual success thresholds are all quite low in the early game, and later on it will be mostly supplanted by Force Persuade in any case.case.
** The second game attempts to avert it by having every skill be involved in its crafting system. The thresholds to get some really good upgrade parts are pretty high, so there is a reason to invest that much in otherwise unused skills. Persuade, however, doesn't enjoy this perk, and suffers from this trope as badly as it did in the first game.
6th Nov '16 3:59:06 PM __Vano
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* Diplomacy in ''VideoGame/MightAndMagic VI'' was so utterly useless they removed it completely from the following game. All it does is makes it a little bit easier to hire [=NPCs=] -- which isn't a problem to speak of in the first place, nor those [=NPCs=] make much of a difference.

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* Diplomacy in ''VideoGame/MightAndMagic VI'' was so utterly useless they removed it completely from the following game. All it does is makes it a little bit easier to hire [=NPCs=] -- which isn't a problem to speak of in the first place, nor those [=NPCs=] make much of a difference.place.
6th Nov '16 3:55:24 PM __Vano
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* Diplomacy in ''VideoGame/MightAndMagic VI'' was so utterly useless they removed it completely from the following game. All it does is makes it a little bit easier to hire NPCs -- which isn't a problem to speak of in the first place.

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* Diplomacy in ''VideoGame/MightAndMagic VI'' was so utterly useless they removed it completely from the following game. All it does is makes it a little bit easier to hire NPCs [=NPCs=] -- which isn't a problem to speak of in the first place.place, nor those [=NPCs=] make much of a difference.
6th Nov '16 3:39:36 PM __Vano
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Added DiffLines:

* Diplomacy in ''VideoGame/MightAndMagic VI'' was so utterly useless they removed it completely from the following game. All it does is makes it a little bit easier to hire NPCs -- which isn't a problem to speak of in the first place.
23rd Sep '16 10:34:29 PM Hanz
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** The sequel, ''[[VideoGame/DeusExHumanRevolution Human Revolution]]'', has a minor example: the Hacking Analyze augmentation allows you to see the chances of being detected by the security mainframe for every node, even though you can already tell what the chances are for every node you can currently capture and since chance of detection is based on security level (which you can already see for every node) it's not that hard to guess[[note]]The stated use of the Analyze ability is that it lets you see what's in datastores, ostensibly so that you can see if it's worth it to go after them, but actually hacking them is much easier, and spending the two points you would otherwise use for Analyze on two points for Hacking:Stealth is a much better tradeoff[[/note]].

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** The sequel, prequel, ''[[VideoGame/DeusExHumanRevolution Human Revolution]]'', has a minor example: the Hacking Analyze augmentation allows you to see the chances of being detected by the security mainframe for every node, even though you can already tell what the chances are for every node you can currently capture and since chance of detection is based on security level (which you can already see for every node) it's not that hard to guess[[note]]The stated use of the Analyze ability is that it lets you see what's in datastores, ostensibly so that you can see if it's worth it to go after them, but actually hacking them is much easier, and spending the two points you would otherwise use for Analyze on two points for Hacking:Stealth is a much better tradeoff[[/note]].
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