History Main / UselessUsefulNonCombatAbilities

7th Oct '17 3:18:54 PM thatother1dude
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*** You find more money in containers with Fortune Finder. The problem is that you could instead put the points you use on it into the Scrounger perk, which increases the amount of ammunition you find in containers. Ammunition is worth money. Since Scrounger allows you to find rare and expensive ammo like .50 caliber rounds, plasma charges, and even mininukes, it's ''much'' more valuable than Fortune Finder even if all you're doing is selling the extra ammo you find.
7th Oct '17 3:16:57 PM thatother1dude
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** What ''Fallout'' player has ''ever'' found much of a use for Traps[[note]]None of the traps you encounter are very damaging, so running past them and taking damage is better than wasting skill points[[/note]], Throwing[[note]]While very effective at the beginning of ''Fallout 2'', when you don't have a decent gun for a while, there are ''very'' few throwing weapons beyond the (sharpened) spear that you can use more than once, and grenades aren't nearly as powerful as rocket launchers, plasma guns, or high-level bullet guns, all of which use different skills[[/note]], or Outdoorsman[[note]] This skill increases the rate at which you find favorable random encounters, and decreases the rate at which you find bad random encounters. It literally has no other effect, not even narrative skill checks, in either game[[/note]]? The viability of investing points into some skills, such as Science, Repair, and (in the sequel) Unarmed is undermined by the many books and teachers in the games that make it easy to boost a skill to 100% without investing a point into it. Many of the Perks are also infamous as pretty useless.
** ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'' at least averts some of the negative aspects of this trope: A successful Speech check instead of killing a foe or using a computer to shut down a turret instead of blowing the turret up will net you the same amount of XP, if not more, than if you tried fighting. Barter is an aversion because it means you'll get better prices and better deals from merchants, something you'll need if you have low Strength.
** ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' adds to this by giving you different, often more fun ways to complete quests by using your Speech skill, as well as frequent, often useful bonuses. Also, if you work with Yes Man and have 100 Speech [[spoiler: you can literally [[Awesome/FalloutNewVegas ''talk'' two armies into backing down]]]]. ''New Vegas'''s Survival skill may appear at first to duplicate the little-used Outdoorsman skill, but the ubiquity of food versus stimpaks and the utility of several of the campfire recipes makes it quite useful in normal mode and positively essential in hardcore mode, where the Courier must eat and sleep regularly and medicines are not as immediately effective.
** ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}},'' as part of its heavy reworking of progression, has a couple:
*** First, it substantially modifies the Animal Friend perk while adding similar ones for abominations/mutated creatures and humanoids. Now pointing your gun at an enemy has a chance to pacify them, and at higher levels, they'll even fight on your side and take orders from you... as long as you pass a charisma check, and don't do anything ''but'' point your gun or else they might turn hostile again, and if that happens (or if you fail a later pacification check) you can't pacify anyone else until exiting and re-entering combat. On top of all that, a large chunk of the game's quests (including several mandatory ones) ''require'' killing all the enemies in an area to proceed, so a true PacifistRun is basically impossible without exploits.
*** Second, the V.A.N.S. ('''V'''ault-Tec '''A'''ssisted '''N'''avigational '''S'''ystem) perk, which allows you to see a path to the nearest tagged objective in VATS. The problems with this: 1) you only get one perk per level up, and there's almost always an option that's more useful in terms of actual '''gameplay''', and 2) the player can always check nearby objectives on their Pip-Boy map, so V.A.N.S. is only even conceivably useful in particularly difficult to navigate areas. V.A.N.S 2 sounds much more useful, giving you plus 2 to Perception, two whole levels for free! Except for three "teeny-tiny" things: 1) you have to waste a level up on V.A.N.S. just to get the chance of it, 2) you need to be level 36 minimum, 3) you need the ''Nuka-World'' DLC to get it (which has much better things than a second level in a useless perk). It's just best spending two levels in Perception if you're really hurting for it or even better invest in the perks that reduce the damage you take or increase the damage you give.
*** Third, the Fortune Finder perk. You find more money in containers with it. The problem is that you could instead put the points you use on it into the Scrounger perk, which increases the amount of ammunition you find in containers. Ammunition is worth money. Since Scrounger allows you to find rare and expensive ammo like .50 caliber rounds, plasma charges, and even mininukes, it's ''much'' more valuable than Fortune Finder even if all you're doing is selling the extra ammo you find.

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** What ''Fallout'' player has ''ever'' found much of a use for Traps[[note]]None of the traps you encounter are very damaging, so running past them and taking damage is better than wasting skill points[[/note]], Throwing[[note]]While very effective at the beginning of ''Fallout 2'', when you don't have a decent gun for a while, there are ''very'' few throwing weapons beyond the (sharpened) spear that you can use more than once, and grenades aren't nearly as powerful as rocket launchers, plasma guns, or high-level bullet guns, all of which use different skills[[/note]], points[[/note]] or Outdoorsman[[note]] This skill increases the rate at which you find favorable random encounters, and decreases the rate at which you find bad random encounters. It literally has no other effect, not even narrative skill checks, in either game[[/note]]? The viability of investing points into some skills, such as Science, Repair, and (in the sequel) Unarmed is undermined by the many books and teachers in the games that make it easy to boost a skill to 100% without investing a point into it. Many of the Perks are also infamous as pretty useless.
** ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'' at least averts some of the negative aspects of this trope: A successful Speech check instead of killing a foe or using a computer to shut down a turret instead of blowing the turret up will net you the same amount of XP, if not more, than if you tried fighting. Barter is an aversion because it means you'll get better prices and better deals from merchants, something you'll need if you have low Strength.
** ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' adds to this by giving you different, often more fun ways to complete quests by using your Speech skill, as well as frequent, often useful bonuses. Also, if you work with Yes Man and have 100 Speech [[spoiler: you can literally [[Awesome/FalloutNewVegas ''talk'' two armies into backing down]]]]. ''New Vegas'''s Survival skill may appear at first to duplicate the little-used Outdoorsman skill, but the ubiquity of food versus stimpaks and the utility of several of the campfire recipes makes it quite useful in normal mode and positively essential in hardcore mode, where the Courier must eat and sleep regularly and medicines are not as immediately effective.
** ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}},'' as part of its heavy reworking of progression, has a couple:
''VideoGame/Fallout4'':
*** First, it substantially modifies the Animal Friend perk while adding similar ones is significantly modified and there are now separate perks for abominations/mutated creatures and humanoids. Now pointing your gun at an enemy has a chance to pacify them, and at higher levels, they'll even fight on your side and take orders from you... as long as you pass a charisma check, and don't do anything ''but'' point your gun or else they might turn hostile again, and if that happens (or if you fail a later pacification check) you can't pacify anyone else until exiting and re-entering combat. On top of all that, a large chunk of the game's quests (including several mandatory ones) ''require'' killing all the enemies in an area to proceed, so a true PacifistRun is basically impossible without exploits.
*** Second, the The V.A.N.S. ('''V'''ault-Tec '''A'''ssisted '''N'''avigational '''S'''ystem) perk, which perk allows you to see a path to the nearest tagged objective in VATS. The problems with this: 1) you only get one perk per level up, and there's almost always an option that's more useful in terms of actual '''gameplay''', and 2) the player can always check nearby objectives on their Pip-Boy map, so V.A.N.S. is only even conceivably useful in particularly difficult to navigate areas. V.A.N.S 2 sounds much more useful, giving you plus 2 to Perception, two whole levels for free! Except for three "teeny-tiny" things: 1) you have to waste a level up on V.A.N.S. just to get the chance of it, 2) you need to be level 36 minimum, 3) you need the ''Nuka-World'' DLC to get it (which has much better things than a second level in a useless perk). It's just best spending two levels in Perception if you're really hurting for it or even better invest in the perks that reduce the damage you take or increase the damage you give.\n
*** Third, the Fortune Finder perk. You find more money in containers with it.Fortune Finder. The problem is that you could instead put the points you use on it into the Scrounger perk, which increases the amount of ammunition you find in containers. Ammunition is worth money. Since Scrounger allows you to find rare and expensive ammo like .50 caliber rounds, plasma charges, and even mininukes, it's ''much'' more valuable than Fortune Finder even if all you're doing is selling the extra ammo you find.
1st Oct '17 8:43:05 PM DastardlyDemolition
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*** Second, the V.A.N.S. ('''V'''ault-Tec '''A'''ssisted '''N'''avigational '''S'''ystem) perk, which allows you to see a path to the nearest tagged objective in VATS. The problems with this: 1) you only get one perk per level up, and there's almost always an option that's more useful in terms of actual '''gameplay''', and 2) the player can always check nearby objectives on their Pip-Boy map, so V.A.N.S. is only even conceivably useful in particularly difficult to navigate areas. V.A.N.S 2 sounds much more useful, giving you plus 2 to Perception, two whole levels for free! Except for three "teeny-tiny" things: 1) you have to waste a level up on V.A.N.S. just to get the chance of it, 2) you need to be level 36 minimum, 3) you need the ''Nuka-World'' DLC to get it (which has much better things than a second level in a useless perk). It's just best spending two levels in Perception if you're really hurting for it or even better invest in reduction or increase your damage.

to:

*** Second, the V.A.N.S. ('''V'''ault-Tec '''A'''ssisted '''N'''avigational '''S'''ystem) perk, which allows you to see a path to the nearest tagged objective in VATS. The problems with this: 1) you only get one perk per level up, and there's almost always an option that's more useful in terms of actual '''gameplay''', and 2) the player can always check nearby objectives on their Pip-Boy map, so V.A.N.S. is only even conceivably useful in particularly difficult to navigate areas. V.A.N.S 2 sounds much more useful, giving you plus 2 to Perception, two whole levels for free! Except for three "teeny-tiny" things: 1) you have to waste a level up on V.A.N.S. just to get the chance of it, 2) you need to be level 36 minimum, 3) you need the ''Nuka-World'' DLC to get it (which has much better things than a second level in a useless perk). It's just best spending two levels in Perception if you're really hurting for it or even better invest in reduction the perks that reduce the damage you take or increase your damage.the damage you give.
1st Oct '17 8:41:05 PM DastardlyDemolition
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*** Second, the V.A.N.S. perk, which allows you to see a path to the nearest tagged objective in VATS. The problems with this: 1) you only get one perk per level up, and there's almost always an option that's more useful in terms of actual '''gameplay''', and 2) the player can always check nearby objectives on their Pip-Boy map, so V.A.N.S. is only even conceivably useful in particularly difficult to navigate areas.

to:

*** Second, the V.A.N.S. ('''V'''ault-Tec '''A'''ssisted '''N'''avigational '''S'''ystem) perk, which allows you to see a path to the nearest tagged objective in VATS. The problems with this: 1) you only get one perk per level up, and there's almost always an option that's more useful in terms of actual '''gameplay''', and 2) the player can always check nearby objectives on their Pip-Boy map, so V.A.N.S. is only even conceivably useful in particularly difficult to navigate areas. V.A.N.S 2 sounds much more useful, giving you plus 2 to Perception, two whole levels for free! Except for three "teeny-tiny" things: 1) you have to waste a level up on V.A.N.S. just to get the chance of it, 2) you need to be level 36 minimum, 3) you need the ''Nuka-World'' DLC to get it (which has much better things than a second level in a useless perk). It's just best spending two levels in Perception if you're really hurting for it or even better invest in reduction or increase your damage.
15th Sep '17 2:33:28 PM nombretomado
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* Early versions of the {{Mac}} {{Shareware}} RPG ''VideoGame/{{Realmz}}'' had a large number of skills like Break Bars/Gate/Door, Climb Wall, Hear Noise, Hide In Shadows, Move Silently and Pick Pocket that were practically never used, as well as heaps of oddball spells such as Dig, Hold Portal, Locate Object, Ventriloquism and Wizard Eye, and items like iron spikes, mirrors and wine. Most of these were removed in later versions, long before the ''Divinity'' [[LevelEditor scenario editor]] was released.

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* Early versions of the {{Mac}} UsefulNotes/{{Mac}} {{Shareware}} RPG ''VideoGame/{{Realmz}}'' had a large number of skills like Break Bars/Gate/Door, Climb Wall, Hear Noise, Hide In Shadows, Move Silently and Pick Pocket that were practically never used, as well as heaps of oddball spells such as Dig, Hold Portal, Locate Object, Ventriloquism and Wizard Eye, and items like iron spikes, mirrors and wine. Most of these were removed in later versions, long before the ''Divinity'' [[LevelEditor scenario editor]] was released.
28th Aug '17 12:45:39 AM Korodzik
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If the game involves you distributing points among various character skills, particularly useless abilities will typically become a DumpStat.
14th Jul '17 6:49:18 PM MBG
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** ''Craft'', ''Perform'' and ''Profession'' were essentially designed to be skill-point sinks for NPC characters like blacksmiths or tavern owners. Bards require one Perform skill at high level to use some of their abilities and Craft ''can'' become a GameBreaker when combined with spells like Fabricate, but otherwise those skills are only as useful as the DM will allow.

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** ''Craft'', ''Perform'' and ''Profession'' were essentially designed to be skill-point sinks for NPC characters like blacksmiths or tavern owners. Yes, you can use them to make money, but your allies are not going to wait for weeks while you forge longswords and busk when they could be making thousands of gold beating up the local {{Money Spider}}s. Bards require one Perform skill at high level to use some of their abilities abilities, and Craft ''can'' become a GameBreaker when combined with spells like Fabricate, but otherwise those skills are only as useful as the DM will allow.


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** Tracking-related skills are usually joked to be this, overlapping with ThisLooksLikeAJobForAquaman. The logic goes, if you don't have a tracker, then you're never going to ''need'' a tracker - anything that needs to be tracked is probably plot-relevant, and the DM isn't going to make plot-relevant things impossible to find, so groups that don't have a tracker just never encounter anything that needs training to track.
12th Jun '17 12:17:06 PM intastiel
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* ''VideoGame/VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines'' has the Seduction and Intimidation skills, neither of which do much that the Persuasion skill can't. While they unlock some fun dialogue options and Seduction lets players go the VampiresAreSexGods route by sampling some [[KissOfTheVampire enthusiastic]] blood donors, the PointBuildSystem makes them impractical to spend ExperiencePoints on.
6th Jun '17 4:30:28 PM TheAmazingBlachman
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-->-- '''[[Creator/BenCroshaw Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw]] [[WithLyrics lyrics to]] the ''VideoGame/DeusEx'' theme''', ''WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation''

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-->-- '''[[Creator/BenCroshaw Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw]] Croshaw]]'s [[WithLyrics lyrics to]] the ''VideoGame/DeusEx'' theme''', ''WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation''
6th Jun '17 4:30:19 PM TheAmazingBlachman
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-->-- '''[[WithLyrics lyrics to]] the ''VideoGame/DeusEx'' theme''', ''WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation''

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-->-- '''[[WithLyrics '''[[Creator/BenCroshaw Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw]] [[WithLyrics lyrics to]] the ''VideoGame/DeusEx'' theme''', ''WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation''
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