History Main / UnEqualRites

29th Oct '17 6:12:33 PM NanoMoose
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* Since its world is based on [=DnD=] 3.5 rules, ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'' has the same UnequalRites. In ''StartOfDarkness'', Xykon is looked down upon often by wizards for his being a sorcerer, which, naturally, [[BerserkButton pisses him off]]. Since this is Xykon, these people tend not to live much longer. Especially notable when Dorukan is fighting Xykon and at one point asserts the superiority of his wizardry to Xykon's sorcery. [[spoiler:Xykon responds by casting Energy Drain every turn, while giving a HannibalLecture about the advantages of spontaneous casting.]]
** At the beginning of ''StartOfDarkness'', Xykon is told that sorcery is like a rubber mallet, whilst wizardry is a finely crafted watch. At the end, Xykon says that he'd much rather have the sledgehammer than the watch.
*** Some of his frustration stems from the fact that, while it's never explicitly stated in as many words, Xykon himself is an inversion of the way the prepared/instinctive rivalry usually goes. In a setting where wizards are continually flailing about and relying on their ability to find the single spell that gets a job done, Xykon is shown using intensely complex sequences of spells to achieve effects that no single spell can manage (such as using energy drains to de-level someone to the point of losing an ability, then hitting them with an ability they'd normally be immune to, or using spells to draw fire to drain resources or open up a counter-attack, or resorting to physically beating someone up when the situation calls for it). He is quite literally the most intelligent spell-caster ever seen 'on screen', and wins the vast majority of victories by simply being an order of magnitude smarter than anyone around him.
** Wizards looking down on sorcerers becomes a recurring theme for the strip, and especially for Xykon -- in contrast to the [[FatalFlaw dangerously obsessive]] V who believes arcane magic is be-all and end-all, Xykon figures power is power, no matter what form it takes or where it comes from.
** Incidentally, the page quote references the incident shown in the picture -- it was a response to another forumite wondering why Vaarsuvius would be insulted at being called a sorcerer or warlock.
*** This may have had something to do with V making a DealWithTheDevil (A Devil, Demon, and Daemon, actually) in a similar fashion to the ones Warlocks make to get their power. It hit a BIT too close to home for comfort.
** Vaarsuvius also, just before their confrontation with Xykon, expresses disdain for clerics' magic.
--->'''Vaarsuvius:''' How should I know how long divine spells take to cast? It's not as if they were REAL magic!!
* Infernomancers, who get their powers via DealWithTheDevil bargains, don't have a very good reputation in ''Webcomic/DominicDeegan''. While Infernomancers were employed by Callan in the Callan-Maltak war, they were eventually hunted down by the kingdom's holy knights after they had [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness outlived their usefulness]]. There is a reason Infernomancers tend to practice their magic in secret. It doesn't help that Infernomancers deal with the literal forces of evil who wouldn't deal with someone unless they're evil/[[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope corruptible]].
** {{Necromancer}}s also get a rather bad rep for the usual reasons, athough the first necromancer (who's actually still around) is a case of DarkIsNotEvil and GoodIsNotNice.
** Meanwhile, Maltak orcs have their own shamanistic nature magic, split in two traditions: life-affirming akta and death-linked nakta. Practicioners of one type don't get along with those of the other, and while the akta-using clan used their powers in the aftermath of a magical catastrophe to make their lands a fertile haven in the wasteland of their homeland, the natka-using one went on the warpath and violently attacked any and all trespassers in orc lands, even an aid caravan from sympathetic humans. [[spoiler:Of course, things are not what they appear to be at first glance...]]
* [[http://worldpeace.emilymarthasorensen.com/ To Prevent The World Peace]] has two opposite magical systems. There are [[MagicalGirl magical girls]], whose power comes from power items, and born mages, who have their powers since birth and usually don’t need any additional artifacts. Other magic users consider magical girls system to be “cheating”, mostly because it lets them survive as [[BroughtDownToNormal depowered humans]], when their transformed form is killed. The fact that the mages are considered AlwaysChaoticEvil and the magical girls AlwaysLawfulGood, doesn’t help at all.

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* Since its world is based on [=DnD=] 3.5 rules, ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'' has the same UnequalRites. In ''StartOfDarkness'', Xykon is looked down upon often by wizards for his being a sorcerer, which, naturally, [[BerserkButton pisses him off]]. Since this is Xykon, these people tend not to live much longer. Especially notable when Dorukan is fighting Xykon and at one point asserts the superiority of his wizardry to Xykon's sorcery. [[spoiler:Xykon responds by casting Energy Drain every turn, while giving a HannibalLecture about the advantages of spontaneous casting.]]
**
]] At the beginning of ''StartOfDarkness'', Xykon is told that sorcery is like a rubber mallet, whilst wizardry is a finely crafted watch. At the end, Xykon says that he'd much rather have the sledgehammer than the watch.
*** ** Some of his frustration stems from the fact that, while it's never explicitly stated in as many words, Xykon himself is an inversion ''not stupid'', nor wholly reliant upon brute force, even though his magic isn't as complex as that of the way the prepared/instinctive rivalry usually goes. research-dependent wizards. In a setting where wizards are continually flailing about and relying on their ability to find often waste time looking for ''exactly'' the single spell that gets a job done, right spell, Xykon is shown using intensely uses complex sequences of spells to achieve effects that no single spell can manage (such as using energy drains to de-level someone to the point of losing an ability, a level-dependent immunity, then hitting them with an ability they'd normally be immune to, right in the newly-exposed weakness, or using spells to draw fire to drain resources or open up a counter-attack, or resorting to even physically beating someone up when the situation calls for it). He is quite literally the most intelligent spell-caster ever seen 'on screen', and wins the vast majority of victories by simply being an order of magnitude smarter by ''using what he has'', rather than anyone around him.
trying to grasp for an ideal solution that he lacks.
** Wizards looking down on sorcerers becomes a recurring theme for the strip, and especially for Xykon -- in contrast to the [[FatalFlaw dangerously obsessive]] V who believes researching arcane magic is be-all and end-all, Xykon figures the power you have is power, no matter what form it takes or where it comes from.
**
the power you use, and power you can't use is worthless. Incidentally, the page quote references the incident shown in the picture -- it was a response to another forumite wondering why Vaarsuvius would be insulted at being called a sorcerer or warlock.
*** This may have had something to do with V making a DealWithTheDevil (A Devil, Demon, and Daemon, actually) in a similar fashion to the ones Warlocks make to get their power. It hit a BIT too close to home for comfort.
**
warlock. Vaarsuvius also, just before their confrontation with Xykon, also expresses disdain for clerics' magic.
divine magic for about the same reasons they're disdainful of warlocks.
--->'''Vaarsuvius:''' How should I know how long divine spells take to cast? It's not as if they were REAL magic!!
''real'' magic!
* Infernomancers, who get their powers via DealWithTheDevil bargains, don't have a very good reputation in ''Webcomic/DominicDeegan''. While Infernomancers were employed by Callan in the Callan-Maltak war, they were eventually hunted down by the kingdom's holy knights after they had [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness outlived their usefulness]]. There is a reason Infernomancers tend to practice their magic in secret. It doesn't help that Infernomancers deal with the literal forces of evil who wouldn't deal with someone unless they're evil/[[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope corruptible]].
prey upon the greedy/[[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope vulnerable]].
** {{Necromancer}}s also get a rather bad rep for the usual reasons, athough although the first necromancer (who's actually still around) is a case of DarkIsNotEvil and GoodIsNotNice.
** Meanwhile, Maltak orcs have their own shamanistic nature magic, split in two traditions: life-affirming akta and death-linked nakta. Practicioners Practitioners of one type don't get along with those of the other, and while the akta-using clan used their powers in the aftermath of a magical catastrophe to make their lands a fertile haven in the wasteland of their homeland, the natka-using one went on the warpath and violently attacked any and all trespassers in orc lands, even an aid caravan from sympathetic humans. [[spoiler:Of course, things are not what they appear to be at first glance...appear...]]
* [[http://worldpeace.emilymarthasorensen.com/ To Prevent The World Peace]] has two opposite magical systems. There are [[MagicalGirl magical girls]], whose power comes from power items, and born mages, who have their powers since birth and usually don’t need any additional artifacts. Other magic users consider magical girls system to be “cheating”, "cheating", mostly because it lets them survive as [[BroughtDownToNormal depowered humans]], when their transformed form is killed. The fact that the mages are considered AlwaysChaoticEvil and the magical girls AlwaysLawfulGood, doesn’t help at all.
7th Oct '17 7:37:17 AM HighCrate
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** She can't make accurate predictions when she ''tries,'' but her offhand comments are frequently spot-on. Also many of the predictions she makes on purpose turn out to be accurate, but the issue comes more from her failing to correctly ''interpret'' her predictions (which is, again, what happened with [[spoiler: Dumbledore's death]]).
** As a kind-of running gag, the predictions that Harry and Ron tend to make up for their homework (Professor Trelawney always gives good grades to tragic predictions) almost always come true, with the only exception that they don't die as a result.
** Used as a one-off when [=McGonagall=] asks Neville why he hasn't applied for NEWT-level Charms despite his high mark the previous year. He admits it's because his grandmother considers Charms "a soft option" - which [=McGonagall=] promptly reveals is because she failed ''her'' Charms OWL.
** Professor Snape opens his class in the first book by discussing how many wizards fail to appreciate the subtle art and expertise that goes into mixing potions, since it involves no wand-waving or showy displays found in other magic. He doesn't quite seem disrespected on an academic level, most students despise his class because he's a SadistTeacher.

to:

** She can't make accurate predictions when she ''tries,'' but her offhand comments are frequently spot-on. Also many of the predictions she makes on purpose turn out to be accurate, but the issue comes more from her failing to correctly ''interpret'' her predictions (which is, again, what happened with [[spoiler: Dumbledore's death]]).
** As a kind-of running gag, the predictions that Harry and Ron tend to make up for their homework (Professor Trelawney always gives good grades to tragic predictions) almost always come true, with the only exception that they don't die as a result.
** Used as a one-off when [=McGonagall=] asks Neville why he hasn't applied for NEWT-level Charms despite his high mark the previous year. He admits it's because his grandmother considers Charms "a soft option" - which [=McGonagall=] promptly reveals is because she failed ''her'' Charms OWL.
** Professor Snape opens his class in the first book by discussing how many wizards fail to appreciate the subtle art and expertise that goes into mixing potions, since it involves no wand-waving or showy displays found in other magic. He doesn't quite seem disrespected on an academic level, most students despise his class because he's a SadistTeacher.
24th Sep '17 11:48:54 AM nombretomado
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* One of the worst insults you can deliver to a sorcerer in the {{Belgariad}} is to call him a "magician". Sorcerers use their Will, focused by a Word, to perform their feats. Magicians tell their (hopefully-)bound demons to go do something. There are also references to witches, who work with nature spirits.

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* One of the worst insults you can deliver to a sorcerer in the {{Belgariad}} ''Literature/TheBelgariad'' is to call him a "magician". Sorcerers use their Will, focused by a Word, to perform their feats. Magicians tell their (hopefully-)bound demons to go do something. There are also references to witches, who work with nature spirits.
4th Sep '17 9:13:14 PM Peteman
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*** Some of his frustration stems from the fact that, while it's never explicitly stated in as many words, Xykon himself is a hard inversion of the way the prepared/instinctive rivalry usually goes. In a setting where wizards are continually flailing about and relying on their ability to find the single spell that gets a job done, Xykon is shown using intensely complex sequences of spells to achieve effects that no single spell can manage (such as using energy drains to de-level someone to the point of losing an ability, then hitting them with an ability they'd normally be immune to, or using spells to draw fire to drain resources or open up a counter-attack, or resorting to physically beating someone up when the situation calls for it). He is quite literally the most intelligent spell-caster ever seen 'on screen', and wins the vast majority of victories by simply being an order of magnitude smarter than anyone around him.

to:

*** Some of his frustration stems from the fact that, while it's never explicitly stated in as many words, Xykon himself is a hard an inversion of the way the prepared/instinctive rivalry usually goes. In a setting where wizards are continually flailing about and relying on their ability to find the single spell that gets a job done, Xykon is shown using intensely complex sequences of spells to achieve effects that no single spell can manage (such as using energy drains to de-level someone to the point of losing an ability, then hitting them with an ability they'd normally be immune to, or using spells to draw fire to drain resources or open up a counter-attack, or resorting to physically beating someone up when the situation calls for it). He is quite literally the most intelligent spell-caster ever seen 'on screen', and wins the vast majority of victories by simply being an order of magnitude smarter than anyone around him.
24th Aug '17 5:23:00 PM socialist-cokehead
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* Used all over the place in ''Franchise/DragonAge'': the most obvious example would probably the animosity between [[BloodMagic Blood Mages]] and Circle Mages loyal to the [[TheChurch Chantry]]; as the Chantry teaches that blood magic is what led to the creation of the Darkspawn, coupled with the fact that blood magic can also be used to control human minds and bind demons to the caster's will, most orthodox mages take a very dim view of its practitioners, labelling them as [[EvilSorcerer Maleficars]] regardless of wether they've used their powers for evil purposes or not. Meanwhile, the power-mad [[TheMagocracy Tevinter Magisters]], who permit the usage of blood magic within their borders, are looked on with a mixture of fear and disgust; Circle Mages will collaborate with them for research projects- especially in the more esoteric fields- but that's about as far as they're prepared to trust them.

to:

* Used all over the place in ''Franchise/DragonAge'': the most obvious example would probably the animosity between [[BloodMagic Blood Mages]] and Circle Mages loyal to the [[TheChurch Chantry]]; as the Chantry teaches that blood magic is what led to the creation of the Darkspawn, coupled with the fact that blood magic can also be used to control human minds and bind demons to the caster's will, most orthodox mages take a very dim view of its practitioners, labelling them as [[EvilSorcerer Maleficars]] regardless of wether whether they've used their powers for evil purposes or not. Meanwhile, the power-mad [[TheMagocracy Tevinter Magisters]], who permit the usage of blood magic within their borders, are looked on with a mixture of fear and disgust; Circle Mages will collaborate with them for research projects- especially in the more esoteric fields- but that's about as far as they're prepared to trust them.
7th Aug '17 3:59:22 PM Adeon
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* ''Literature/TheWarGods'' features several forms of magic. There are the Traditional Wizards, aka Wand Wizards, who are now either all but extinct or gone evil, Wild Wizards, Mages, and Clerics. Elves used to be another class of Sorcerers, but were considered too dangerous since their power could manifest spontaneously without training and were on the losing side of the WizardWar.
** Wand Wizards use tools to manipulate the magical field, and must have a human parent. They made up the aristocratic class of the old Empire, and the white wizards were all but killed off in the Fall. Black wizards are alive and well, and 'won' Kontovar. They act as a villain for the story. Wencit is the only White Wizard around in the story today, but he's also a wild wizard.
** Wild Wizards are able to be trained as Wand Wizards, but also have their own internal link to the magic field. Only three are described so far, Wencit, the Emperor Ottovar, who ended the Wizard Wars, and Prince Herrick, who caused the Fall of Kontovar. They also live a much longer life, although not immortal.
** Mages are able to manipulate the magic field internally to produce powers, they are psionic in nature, but in numbers quite useful.
** Clerics and champions channel the power of their god, provided they have their favor. Their own strength is essential to this, although evil can cheat by using human sacrifices to summon (the good guys can use this to cheat as well but since killing innocents would obviously lose the favor of their gods it generally takes the form of a HeroicSacrifice).
** Elves used to be warlocks, able to use magic naturally, but were very prone to darkness. Emperor Ottovar crafted the spell which changed how they accessed the magical field to give them enhanced life at the cost of power.
** The other races have different connections as well, mostly preventing them having magic (except for cleric/champion magic). The Dwarves can do psionic stonework. Hdrani have the rage as well as strength and speed. Halfings....

to:

* ''Literature/TheWarGods'' features several forms of magic. There are the Traditional Wizards, aka Wand Wizards, who are now either all but extinct or gone evil, Wild Wizards, Mages, and Clerics. Elves used to be another class of Sorcerers, but were considered too dangerous since their power could manifest spontaneously without training and were on the losing side of the WizardWar.
magic.
** Wand Wizards use tools to manipulate the magical field, require extensive training and must have a be human parent.or half-human. They made up the aristocratic class of the old Empire, and the white wizards were all but killed off in the Fall. Black wizards are alive and well, and 'won' Kontovar. They act as a villain for the story. Wencit is the only White Wizard around in the story today, but he's also a wild wizard.
*** The difference between 'Black' and 'White' wizards is in how they gather power and the use they put their magic to. Black wizards make large use of BloodMagic, sacrificing people to fuel their spells. White wizards are sworn not to use blood magic (unless the other person consents to it) and not to use magic as a weapon except against other wizards.
** Wild Wizards are able to be trained as Wand Wizards, but also have their own internal link to the magic field.field which allows them to manipulate magic at a much more basic level. Only three are described so far, Wencit, the Emperor Ottovar, who ended the Wizard Wars, and Prince Herrick, who caused the Fall of Kontovar. They also live a much longer life, although not immortal.
** Mages are able to manipulate the magic field internally to produce powers, they are psionic much more limited in nature, power and versatility than Wand Wizards, but in numbers quite useful.
useful.
** Clerics and champions channel the power of their god, provided they have their favor. Their own strength is essential to this, although evil can cheat by using human sacrifices to summon (the good guys can use this to cheat as well but since killing innocents would obviously lose the favor of their gods it this generally takes the form of a HeroicSacrifice).
** Elves used to be warlocks, able to use magic naturally, but were very prone to darkness. Emperor Ottovar They were weaker than wand wizards, but required a lot less training. After the Wizard Wars Empress Gwynytha crafted the spell which changed how they accessed the magical field to give them enhanced life immortality at the cost of power.
their magic.
*** Witches and Warlocks do still exist but are a '''lot''' weaker than the pre-immortality Elves were. Most of them don't even realize that they're using magic and just think they have some unusual ability.
** The other races have different connections as well, mostly preventing them having magic (except for cleric/champion magic). The Dwarves can do psionic stonework. Hdrani Hradani have the rage as well as strength and speed. Halfings....
30th Jul '17 2:12:55 AM ImpudentInfidel
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** ''Discworld/TheShepherdsCrown'', the last book in the series, brings it full circle with a boy who wants to become a witch. Although he does prove adept at the medical and "social services" angle, he never manages to do actual witch-style magic. He does develop a preternatural ability to calm potentially violent situations and encourage people to improve their own lives, which his trainer believes to be something completely new.

to:

** ''Discworld/TheShepherdsCrown'', the last book in the series, brings it full circle with a boy who wants to become a witch. Although he does prove adept at the medical and "social services" angle, he never manages to do actual witch-style magic. He does develop a preternatural ability to calm potentially violent situations and encourage people to improve their own lives, which his trainer believes to be something completely new. The plotline is never really resolved, most likely thanks to the book being unfinished due to AuthorExistenceFailure.
20th Jun '17 7:01:57 PM Materioptikon
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Added DiffLines:

** The short story ''The Sea and Little Fishes'' presents the basic difference between wizard and witch magic as basically the same as a hammer and a lever: wizards tend to use the magical equivalent of lots and lots of brute force, while witches tend to use their magic in subtler but equally as powerful ways.
5th Jun '17 1:21:37 PM AdamC
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Added DiffLines:

** In both games you can find a book titled "The Black Arts On Trial" which is just a series of debates on the ethics of Necromancy, and the arguments for and against the Mage Guild officially studying it in a controlled academic environment. While the book does come down on the side that Necromancy is wrong (the book's written by the above-mentioned Archmage), the author notes in it he can still respect the logic presented in the debates and the need to discuss the matter intelligently.
5th Jun '17 1:05:33 PM AdamC
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** Most non-Divination wizards consider Divination to be useless. Divination is described by Professor [=McGonagall=] as "one of the most imprecise branches of magic." Supporters of the subject claim that it is an inexact science that requires innate gifts. Those opposed claim that the subject is irrelevant and fraudulent. Sybil Trelawney, the professor of Divination, appears to be totally inept at it, as Hermione never fails to point out; in fact, Hermione drops the class as useless. Sybil's predictions are almost always wrong or obviously fraudulent, with the exception of [[spoiler:the two regarding Voldemort]], which she has no memory of, and the [[spoiler:prediction of Dumbledore's death]] in the [[Literature/HarryPotterAndTheHalfBloodPrince sixth book]], which she herself disregards as incorrect.
** She can't make accurate predictions when she ''tries,'' but her offhand comments are frequently spot-on.

to:

** Most non-Divination wizards consider Divination to be useless. Divination is described by Professor [=McGonagall=] as "one of the most imprecise branches of magic." Supporters of the subject claim that it is an inexact science that requires innate gifts.gifts, rather than something that can be easily taught academically. Those opposed claim that the subject is irrelevant and fraudulent. Sybil Trelawney, the professor of Divination, appears to be totally inept at it, as Hermione never fails to point out; in fact, Hermione drops the class as useless. Sybil's predictions are almost always wrong or obviously fraudulent, with the exception of [[spoiler:the two regarding Voldemort]], which she has no memory of, and the [[spoiler:prediction of Dumbledore's death]] in the [[Literature/HarryPotterAndTheHalfBloodPrince sixth book]], which she herself disregards as incorrect.
** She can't make accurate predictions when she ''tries,'' but her offhand comments are frequently spot-on. Also many of the predictions she makes on purpose turn out to be accurate, but the issue comes more from her failing to correctly ''interpret'' her predictions (which is, again, what happened with [[spoiler: Dumbledore's death]]).


Added DiffLines:

** Professor Snape opens his class in the first book by discussing how many wizards fail to appreciate the subtle art and expertise that goes into mixing potions, since it involves no wand-waving or showy displays found in other magic. He doesn't quite seem disrespected on an academic level, most students despise his class because he's a SadistTeacher.
** Humorously mixing this with HardOnSoftScience, Horace Slughorn is at one point seen talking to other teachers at a school party, admitting that every member of the faculty thinks ''their'' subject is "the most important."
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