History Main / TheWindsOfWarAndWarAndRemembrance

4th Jun '13 9:38:40 PM Vasha
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-->''The beginning of the end of War lies in Remembrance''
-->Herman Wouk


This is a historical [[TheEpic epic]] of WorldWarII set in two volumes, ''The Winds of War'', and ''War and Remembrance'', by Herman Wouk. It follows the Henry family and their friends around the world during the war. In effect, it is a "sight-seeing" tour, in which we are shown the war from as many perspectives as the author can manage. It has been called a WorldWarII version of ''WarAndPeace'' and both volumes were later made into TV miniseries.
-----
Tropes include:
* AbsentMindedProfessor : Aaron Jastrow. While he could be pardoned for not believing rumors [[LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt of the Holocaust]], he could at least have figured out that being in Europe ''during a major war'' might not be be prudent.
* AcePilot: Warren Henry is a pilot though not technically an ace.
* AmericaWinsTheWar: Not quite; the role of the Soviets is acknowledged and Victor visits the USSR. But most of the main characters are Americans.
* {{Ambadassador}} : Victor, in the first volume. In much of the second too.
* BadassBureaucrat: Victor acts as this much of the time.
* BadassFamily: The Henrys.
* BadassGrandpa: Victor. Literally as he is in fact a grandpa through much of the series.
* BigBad : AdolfHitler, obviously.
* BrilliantButLazy: Byron Henry is obviously brilliant, but introduced as directionless failed-art student.
* TheCaptain: Victor Henry
** Also TheGoodCaptain
* TheChessmaster: Roosevelt, according to von Roon, who credits him with a fiendish [[GambitIndex plan]] against Germany. Von Roon of course, thinks that when Germans do such things it is brilliant statesmanship.
* CowardlyLyon: Slote views himself as a coward, but his drive not to be one inspires him to commit some brave acts, and he ends up [[spoilert:dying in battle]].
* CulturedWarrior: Byron Henry is studying fine arts before the war. Possibly a subversion as he is a rather lazy and inefficient student.
* {{Doorstopper}}
* DroppedABridgeOnHim: [[spoiler:Slote]]'s death only gets a passing mention, after he goes through a lot of CharacterDevelopment. And its stated that it was completely pointless from a military standpoint.
** [[spoiler:Warren]] is a great hero throughout the battle of Midway, only to be ignominiously killed in a final mopping up action.
* EarthIsABattlefield
* EasilyForgiven: Rhoda, Victor's wife is rather charitably treated by poor Victor when she commits adultery. Especially as Victor managed to shrug off similar temptation.
** Maybe that was the reason. He was thinking, "There but for the grace of God".
** He finally does end up divorcing her. So maybe it was first played straight and then subverted.
** But of course, he quickly turned around to marry his own "temptation."
* EmpireWithADarkSecret : The series contains graphic scenes of the Holocaust.
* TheEpic
* FatherNeptune: Victor Henry, the father and a naval officer.
* FinalBattle: Leyte Gulf
* ForcesWithFirepower: Any belligerent.
* ForegoneConclusion : Yes, the Allies won WorldWarII . No, seriously.
* GlamorousWartimeSinger: Madeline Henry
* GoodCannotComprehendEvil: See LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt below.
* HeyItsThatGuy: Throughout the series we have the likes of Leslie Hope ([[TwentyFour Teri Bauer,]]} G.W. Bailey ([[PoliceAcademy Captain Harris,]]} BrianBlessed, and starred SharonStone and John-Rhys Davies.
* HistoricalDomainCharacter : Many
* HumbleHero: Victor is perfectly willing to let others get the glory as long as the war is won..
* InsufferableGenius: Von Roon, a German staff officer whom Victor translates years after the war. He is exasperatingly full of MoralMyopia(and even MoralMyopia about other people's MoralMyopia), contemptuous of his enemies, and determined to show in a very calm and professional manner how it was ''all everyone elses fault''. After reading him, you dislike him not just as a Nazi, but as a person. That, of course, was the author's intention.
** Victor in the "commentary" [[DeadpanSnarker sardonically notes]] that he has a habit of [[FridgeLogic "Blaming other countries for getting invaded by the Germans."]]
* IWantMyBelovedToBeHappy: Slote, Natalie's former boyfriend helps her to get married to Byron, and even gives them his luxurious hotel room to spend their wedding night in, even though he still loves Natalie.
* IWillFindYou: Byron searches for Natalie in Europe.
* IAmSpartacus: Leslie Slote, a normally timid diplomatic flunky is travelling with some neutral diplomats through German territory. When an SS officer demands to separate Jews from the group, Slote, with a [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome gloriously imperious display]] appeals to international good manners, and then announces that either ''all'' of the group would be treated as Jews, or ''none''.
* LaResistance : Natalie becomes a member of this.
* LargeHam: Stephen Berkhoff as Hitler. Of course, {{Truth In Television}} here.
* LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt: InUniverse, few people are capable of believing just what the Nazis are doing in the camps.
* LittleHeroBigWar
* LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters: Including, Victor Henry, his wife Rhoda, his sons Warren and Byron, and his daughter Madeline. Also including a number of other important characters from an another family, as well as many a HistoricalDomainCharacter of the time.
* LovableCoward: Slote, though he eventually gets over his cowardice.
* MalignantPlotTumor: Byron's search for Louis takes over the whole second half of the final episode, to the point that V-J Day, ie ''the end of the war'', is only indicated by a briefly glimpsed newspaper headline.
* MarriedToTheJob: Victor Henry.
* MatzoFever: Natalie Jastrow, the love interest(and wife) of Byron Henry.
* MayDecemberRomance: Between Victor and Pamela Tudsbury.
* MeaningfulName: The head of a naval family named ''Victor''?
** The superstitious might wonder about giving a naval officer that name. It's kind of TemptingFate.
*** Though of course, not only ''did'' he end up as the victor he got to rub it in by writing a translation of the vanquished point of view and adding in his [[DeadpanSnarker snarky]] commentaries.
*** Byron, the CulturedWarrior(sort of) of the Henry family is named after a [[Creator/LordByron famous poet]].
* MostWritersAreWriters: Natalie's uncle is a famous writer, and there are intellectual references throughout the work.
* MySisterIsOffLimits : And Byron actually smashes the false teeth of one of Madeline's boyfriends.
* NobleBigot: Several of the heroic characters are noble bigots toward Germans and Japanese. [[CaptainObvious Y'think?]]
** A subversion is Victor when he hears about Byron marrying a Jew. He is not really shocked, or bigoted as such; he just thinks the idea is odd and needs getting used to.
* ObligatoryWarCrimeScene: Subverted. On a submarine patrol Byron's captain sets up a shot on a ship with a red cross insignia. Byron asks permission to stand aside from this and take notes to report it to authority. Then the captain fires and the ship [[StuffBlowingUp explodes massively]], being an ammunition ship disguised as a hospital ship. It is not made clear how Byron's captain guessed or if he was just incredibly lucky.
** The scenes at Auschwitz in Chapter Two. If you need further elaboration a trainload of Jews is carted into the camp while the weakest of the Jews already there are pressed into guard duty. The men, women and children believe they are there for work, when they are sent to sanitation, stripped bare, forced into the gas chambers and executed, before being dumped in carts to be covered in lime and buried. Himmler is shown this to demonstrate disposal being a problem, and he authorizes medical experiments on the women as well as every effort to build crematoriums to be built by Jewish slaves before they are liquidated.
* TheOtherDarrin: Several roles were recast between the two miniseries, often with bigger names like John Gielgud, Jane Seymour, and Robert Morley.
* OvertOperative: Victor spends the first part as a Naval Attache(polite term for an embassy's official spy)in Berlin. Justified in that the right to keep an "in-house" spy as long as he is not to obnoxious about it is common diplomatic custom. However he does little more exciting then going to VIP entertainments and taking notes. In so doing, he did manage to predict the German-Russian alliance.
* ThePatriarch :Victor Henry
* PatrioticFervor: Pretty much shown by everyone and true to period.
* ProudWarriorRace: Von Roon thinks only Germans are true warriors. When Germans lose it was "unfair".
* RealMenLoveJesus: Victor is a good churchgoer. More in a "Respectable '40's American" sense then in a "fanatic" sense, but a very devoted Christian nontheless.
* SympatheticAdulterer: subverted with Natalie. She offer's herself to a Nazi guard to [[MamaBear protect her baby]]. The guard however taunts her by saying he could have her any time he wanted but didn't feel like it at the momment.
** Pamela is a sympathetic attempted adulterer. Rhoda is an UNsympathetic adulterer-she has a rather unlikable personality to begin with.
* TheStoic: Victor. Kind of verges into StoicWoobie at times.
* TheseHandsHaveKilled : Byron, in order to have an excuse to visit his wife and son in Europe gets a job inspecting [[{{Plunder}} captured German submarines]]. A [[BadassIsraeli Zionist agent]] who had protected his family is shocked at the idea of him working with former German submariners. Byron says that they were [[PunchClockVillain just professional naval officers]]. Whereupon the agent says "They're murderers". And Byron said, "So am I."
* ThoseWackyNazis
* TookALevelInBadass : Byron evolves from a rather lazy character into a submarine ace.
** Leslie Slote originally appears as a diplomat, who's cowardly and aware of it. After he finds evidence about the Holocaust, and can't do anything to help the Jews by diplomatic means, he eventually resigns and becomes a member of a paratrooper squad.
* TrueCompanions
* TheUnfairSex: Rhoda doesn't take it well when she learns that Pamela has been trying to snare her husband. It apparently slips her mind that unlike Victor, she actually ''has'' been cheating.
* UnreliableNarrator : Von Roon. Fairly obvious given his [[ThoseWackyNazis former employers]].
* VillainousBreakdown: In the film adaptation of War and Rememberance, Hitler has an ''[[LargeHam exceptionally epic]]'' one when informed that Steiner could not [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huf9JUibW0E muster reinforcements to come to Berlin's aid.]]
** [[EvenEvilHasStandards even]] [[WebVideo/HitlerRants Downfall Hitler]] [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJVX5OPrGFU thinks he's crazy]].
* WarIsHell / WarIsGlorious: Yes the book manages both. Not as uncommon as it sounds.
* [[CrimeTimeSoap War Time Soap]] : The books are rather soapy in many ways.
* WeHaveBecomeComplacent
* WorthyOpponent: While America is still neutral Victor comments to a German naval officer that he seemed so familiar a specimen of a naval officer that Victor might have met him in the [[WorldWarI last war]]. The German officer [[{{Irony}} wryly]] replies [[FriendlyEnemy "Maybe we did."]]
* YeGoodeOldeDays: Nostalgia for WorldWarII? Come on. Yet we all know it exists and the book runs on it. To the point of having the cover decorated by a cluster of forties style family photos.
** However, despite that it is never hidden that these were a nasty time. After all the author is a ''Jew'' and so are several of the characters, and Jews did not have it so well then.
* WorldWarII
----

to:

-->''The beginning of the end of War lies in Remembrance''
-->Herman Wouk


This is a historical [[TheEpic epic]] of WorldWarII set in two volumes, ''The Winds of War'', and ''War and Remembrance'', by Herman Wouk. It follows the Henry family and their friends around the world during the war. In effect, it is a "sight-seeing" tour, in which we are shown the war from as many perspectives as the author can manage. It has been called a WorldWarII version of ''WarAndPeace'' and both volumes were later made into TV miniseries.
-----
Tropes include:
* AbsentMindedProfessor : Aaron Jastrow. While he could be pardoned for not believing rumors [[LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt of the Holocaust]], he could at least have figured out that being in Europe ''during a major war'' might not be be prudent.
* AcePilot: Warren Henry is a pilot though not technically an ace.
* AmericaWinsTheWar: Not quite; the role of the Soviets is acknowledged and Victor visits the USSR. But most of the main characters are Americans.
* {{Ambadassador}} : Victor, in the first volume. In much of the second too.
* BadassBureaucrat: Victor acts as this much of the time.
* BadassFamily: The Henrys.
* BadassGrandpa: Victor. Literally as he is in fact a grandpa through much of the series.
* BigBad : AdolfHitler, obviously.
* BrilliantButLazy: Byron Henry is obviously brilliant, but introduced as directionless failed-art student.
* TheCaptain: Victor Henry
** Also TheGoodCaptain
* TheChessmaster: Roosevelt, according to von Roon, who credits him with a fiendish [[GambitIndex plan]] against Germany. Von Roon of course, thinks that when Germans do such things it is brilliant statesmanship.
* CowardlyLyon: Slote views himself as a coward, but his drive not to be one inspires him to commit some brave acts, and he ends up [[spoilert:dying in battle]].
* CulturedWarrior: Byron Henry is studying fine arts before the war. Possibly a subversion as he is a rather lazy and inefficient student.
* {{Doorstopper}}
* DroppedABridgeOnHim: [[spoiler:Slote]]'s death only gets a passing mention, after he goes through a lot of CharacterDevelopment. And its stated that it was completely pointless from a military standpoint.
** [[spoiler:Warren]] is a great hero throughout the battle of Midway, only to be ignominiously killed in a final mopping up action.
* EarthIsABattlefield
* EasilyForgiven: Rhoda, Victor's wife is rather charitably treated by poor Victor when she commits adultery. Especially as Victor managed to shrug off similar temptation.
** Maybe that was the reason. He was thinking, "There but for the grace of God".
** He finally does end up divorcing her. So maybe it was first played straight and then subverted.
** But of course, he quickly turned around to marry his own "temptation."
* EmpireWithADarkSecret : The series contains graphic scenes of the Holocaust.
* TheEpic
* FatherNeptune: Victor Henry, the father and a naval officer.
* FinalBattle: Leyte Gulf
* ForcesWithFirepower: Any belligerent.
* ForegoneConclusion : Yes, the Allies won WorldWarII . No, seriously.
* GlamorousWartimeSinger: Madeline Henry
* GoodCannotComprehendEvil: See LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt below.
* HeyItsThatGuy: Throughout the series we have the likes of Leslie Hope ([[TwentyFour Teri Bauer,]]} G.W. Bailey ([[PoliceAcademy Captain Harris,]]} BrianBlessed, and starred SharonStone and John-Rhys Davies.
* HistoricalDomainCharacter : Many
* HumbleHero: Victor is perfectly willing to let others get the glory as long as the war is won..
* InsufferableGenius: Von Roon, a German staff officer whom Victor translates years after the war. He is exasperatingly full of MoralMyopia(and even MoralMyopia about other people's MoralMyopia), contemptuous of his enemies, and determined to show in a very calm and professional manner how it was ''all everyone elses fault''. After reading him, you dislike him not just as a Nazi, but as a person. That, of course, was the author's intention.
** Victor in the "commentary" [[DeadpanSnarker sardonically notes]] that he has a habit of [[FridgeLogic "Blaming other countries for getting invaded by the Germans."]]
* IWantMyBelovedToBeHappy: Slote, Natalie's former boyfriend helps her to get married to Byron, and even gives them his luxurious hotel room to spend their wedding night in, even though he still loves Natalie.
* IWillFindYou: Byron searches for Natalie in Europe.
* IAmSpartacus: Leslie Slote, a normally timid diplomatic flunky is travelling with some neutral diplomats through German territory. When an SS officer demands to separate Jews from the group, Slote, with a [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome gloriously imperious display]] appeals to international good manners, and then announces that either ''all'' of the group would be treated as Jews, or ''none''.
* LaResistance : Natalie becomes a member of this.
* LargeHam: Stephen Berkhoff as Hitler. Of course, {{Truth In Television}} here.
* LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt: InUniverse, few people are capable of believing just what the Nazis are doing in the camps.
* LittleHeroBigWar
* LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters: Including, Victor Henry, his wife Rhoda, his sons Warren and Byron, and his daughter Madeline. Also including a number of other important characters from an another family, as well as many a HistoricalDomainCharacter of the time.
* LovableCoward: Slote, though he eventually gets over his cowardice.
* MalignantPlotTumor: Byron's search for Louis takes over the whole second half of the final episode, to the point that V-J Day, ie ''the end of the war'', is only indicated by a briefly glimpsed newspaper headline.
* MarriedToTheJob: Victor Henry.
* MatzoFever: Natalie Jastrow, the love interest(and wife) of Byron Henry.
* MayDecemberRomance: Between Victor and Pamela Tudsbury.
* MeaningfulName: The head of a naval family named ''Victor''?
** The superstitious might wonder about giving a naval officer that name. It's kind of TemptingFate.
*** Though of course, not only ''did'' he end up as the victor he got to rub it in by writing a translation of the vanquished point of view and adding in his [[DeadpanSnarker snarky]] commentaries.
*** Byron, the CulturedWarrior(sort of) of the Henry family is named after a [[Creator/LordByron famous poet]].
* MostWritersAreWriters: Natalie's uncle is a famous writer, and there are intellectual references throughout the work.
* MySisterIsOffLimits : And Byron actually smashes the false teeth of one of Madeline's boyfriends.
* NobleBigot: Several of the heroic characters are noble bigots toward Germans and Japanese. [[CaptainObvious Y'think?]]
** A subversion is Victor when he hears about Byron marrying a Jew. He is not really shocked, or bigoted as such; he just thinks the idea is odd and needs getting used to.
* ObligatoryWarCrimeScene: Subverted. On a submarine patrol Byron's captain sets up a shot on a ship with a red cross insignia. Byron asks permission to stand aside from this and take notes to report it to authority. Then the captain fires and the ship [[StuffBlowingUp explodes massively]], being an ammunition ship disguised as a hospital ship. It is not made clear how Byron's captain guessed or if he was just incredibly lucky.
** The scenes at Auschwitz in Chapter Two. If you need further elaboration a trainload of Jews is carted into the camp while the weakest of the Jews already there are pressed into guard duty. The men, women and children believe they are there for work, when they are sent to sanitation, stripped bare, forced into the gas chambers and executed, before being dumped in carts to be covered in lime and buried. Himmler is shown this to demonstrate disposal being a problem, and he authorizes medical experiments on the women as well as every effort to build crematoriums to be built by Jewish slaves before they are liquidated.
* TheOtherDarrin: Several roles were recast between the two miniseries, often with bigger names like John Gielgud, Jane Seymour, and Robert Morley.
* OvertOperative: Victor spends the first part as a Naval Attache(polite term for an embassy's official spy)in Berlin. Justified in that the right to keep an "in-house" spy as long as he is not to obnoxious about it is common diplomatic custom. However he does little more exciting then going to VIP entertainments and taking notes. In so doing, he did manage to predict the German-Russian alliance.
* ThePatriarch :Victor Henry
* PatrioticFervor: Pretty much shown by everyone and true to period.
* ProudWarriorRace: Von Roon thinks only Germans are true warriors. When Germans lose it was "unfair".
* RealMenLoveJesus: Victor is a good churchgoer. More in a "Respectable '40's American" sense then in a "fanatic" sense, but a very devoted Christian nontheless.
* SympatheticAdulterer: subverted with Natalie. She offer's herself to a Nazi guard to [[MamaBear protect her baby]]. The guard however taunts her by saying he could have her any time he wanted but didn't feel like it at the momment.
** Pamela is a sympathetic attempted adulterer. Rhoda is an UNsympathetic adulterer-she has a rather unlikable personality to begin with.
* TheStoic: Victor. Kind of verges into StoicWoobie at times.
* TheseHandsHaveKilled : Byron, in order to have an excuse to visit his wife and son in Europe gets a job inspecting [[{{Plunder}} captured German submarines]]. A [[BadassIsraeli Zionist agent]] who had protected his family is shocked at the idea of him working with former German submariners. Byron says that they were [[PunchClockVillain just professional naval officers]]. Whereupon the agent says "They're murderers". And Byron said, "So am I."
* ThoseWackyNazis
* TookALevelInBadass : Byron evolves from a rather lazy character into a submarine ace.
** Leslie Slote originally appears as a diplomat, who's cowardly and aware of it. After he finds evidence about the Holocaust, and can't do anything to help the Jews by diplomatic means, he eventually resigns and becomes a member of a paratrooper squad.
* TrueCompanions
* TheUnfairSex: Rhoda doesn't take it well when she learns that Pamela has been trying to snare her husband. It apparently slips her mind that unlike Victor, she actually ''has'' been cheating.
* UnreliableNarrator : Von Roon. Fairly obvious given his [[ThoseWackyNazis former employers]].
* VillainousBreakdown: In the film adaptation of War and Rememberance, Hitler has an ''[[LargeHam exceptionally epic]]'' one when informed that Steiner could not [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huf9JUibW0E muster reinforcements to come to Berlin's aid.]]
** [[EvenEvilHasStandards even]] [[WebVideo/HitlerRants Downfall Hitler]] [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJVX5OPrGFU thinks he's crazy]].
* WarIsHell / WarIsGlorious: Yes the book manages both. Not as uncommon as it sounds.
* [[CrimeTimeSoap War Time Soap]] : The books are rather soapy in many ways.
* WeHaveBecomeComplacent
* WorthyOpponent: While America is still neutral Victor comments to a German naval officer that he seemed so familiar a specimen of a naval officer that Victor might have met him in the [[WorldWarI last war]]. The German officer [[{{Irony}} wryly]] replies [[FriendlyEnemy "Maybe we did."]]
* YeGoodeOldeDays: Nostalgia for WorldWarII? Come on. Yet we all know it exists and the book runs on it. To the point of having the cover decorated by a cluster of forties style family photos.
** However, despite that it is never hidden that these were a nasty time. After all the author is a ''Jew'' and so are several of the characters, and Jews did not have it so well then.
* WorldWarII
----
[[redirect:Literature/TheWindsOfWarAndWarAndRemembrance]]
14th Apr '13 7:35:42 PM Hadjorim
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* EvilCannotComprehendGood : Inverted. In this one good, excruciatingly, cannot comprehend evil. TruthInTelevision.


Added DiffLines:

* GoodCannotComprehendEvil: See LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt below.
28th Mar '13 2:56:31 AM tsstevens
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Added DiffLines:

* HeyItsThatGuy: Throughout the series we have the likes of Leslie Hope ([[TwentyFour Teri Bauer,]]} G.W. Bailey ([[PoliceAcademy Captain Harris,]]} BrianBlessed, and starred SharonStone and John-Rhys Davies.
27th Mar '13 3:37:23 AM Aquila89
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Added DiffLines:

* CowardlyLyon: Slote views himself as a coward, but his drive not to be one inspires him to commit some brave acts, and he ends up [[spoilert:dying in battle]].
27th Mar '13 3:33:45 AM Aquila89
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* AmericaWinsTheWar: Not quite. But most of the main characters are Americans.

to:

* AmericaWinsTheWar: Not quite.quite; the role of the Soviets is acknowledged and Victor visits the USSR. But most of the main characters are Americans.
18th Mar '13 1:40:52 AM tsstevens
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Added DiffLines:

** The scenes at Auschwitz in Chapter Two. If you need further elaboration a trainload of Jews is carted into the camp while the weakest of the Jews already there are pressed into guard duty. The men, women and children believe they are there for work, when they are sent to sanitation, stripped bare, forced into the gas chambers and executed, before being dumped in carts to be covered in lime and buried. Himmler is shown this to demonstrate disposal being a problem, and he authorizes medical experiments on the women as well as every effort to build crematoriums to be built by Jewish slaves before they are liquidated.
6th Mar '13 10:29:40 AM SeptimusHeap
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* GlamorousWartimeSinger: Madeline Henry
* HeroicSociopath: Byron's submarine captain, Aster. Later Aster dies in a HeroicSacrifice.

to:

* GlamorousWartimeSinger: Madeline Henry
* HeroicSociopath: Byron's submarine captain, Aster. Later Aster dies in a HeroicSacrifice.
Henry
12th Dec '12 4:44:32 AM Aquila89
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*** This Troper has read from some German staffies from the period that actually do sound a bit like von Roon.
**** The author claimed the same thing.
1st Dec '12 10:32:05 AM Eegah
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Added DiffLines:

* MalignantPlotTumor: Byron's search for Louis takes over the whole second half of the final episode, to the point that V-J Day, ie ''the end of the war'', is only indicated by a briefly glimpsed newspaper headline.
30th Oct '12 4:51:55 PM jatay3
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Added DiffLines:

**Pamela is a sympathetic attempted adulterer. Rhoda is an UNsympathetic adulterer-she has a rather unlikable personality to begin with.
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