History Main / TheTimeTravellersDilemma

17th Sep '15 4:36:51 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The cost of salvaging anything at all of the original multiverse in ''CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' was to produce a new single universe and erase the original multiverse entirely from history. So, from a very real standpoint, ''[[PyrrhicVictory nobody]]'' [[PyrrhicVictory survived the original Crisis]] (except Superboy Prime and co., and maybe Power Girl and Psycho Pirate), and all the current heroes are temporal copies of the originals.

to:

* The cost of salvaging anything at all of the original multiverse in ''CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' ''ComicBook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' was to produce a new single universe and erase the original multiverse entirely from history. So, from a very real standpoint, ''[[PyrrhicVictory nobody]]'' [[PyrrhicVictory survived the original Crisis]] (except Superboy Prime and co., and maybe Power Girl and Psycho Pirate), and all the current heroes are temporal copies of the originals.
6th Sep '15 5:58:18 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The end of NeilGaiman's ''ComicBook/{{Marvel 1602}}'' sets right the circumstances that caused the temporal divergence that brought about the 'Age of Marvels' in the Elizabethan era. Thus, the timeline is overwritten, and history proceeds as necessary. The Watchers, however, step in and save the 1602 world as a pocket universe, kept in a glass globe by this version of Uatu.

to:

* The end of NeilGaiman's Creator/NeilGaiman's ''ComicBook/{{Marvel 1602}}'' sets right the circumstances that caused the temporal divergence that brought about the 'Age of Marvels' in the Elizabethan era. Thus, the timeline is overwritten, and history proceeds as necessary. The Watchers, however, step in and save the 1602 world as a pocket universe, kept in a glass globe by this version of Uatu.
16th Aug '15 9:55:20 PM Nauran
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''VideoGame/LifeIsStrange'': [[spoiler: Episodes 3 and 4 deal with this. Max going back and saving Chloe's father William's life comes at an incredible cost to Chloe.]]

to:

* ''VideoGame/LifeIsStrange'': [[spoiler: Episodes 3 and 4 deal with this. Max going back and saving Chloe's father William's father's life comes at an incredible cost to Chloe.Chloe and her family.]]
16th Aug '15 9:54:37 PM Nauran
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''VideoGame/LifeIsStrange'': [[spoiler: Episodes 3 and 4 deal with this. Max going back and saving Chloe's father William's life comes at an incredible cost to Chloe's.]]

to:

* ''VideoGame/LifeIsStrange'': [[spoiler: Episodes 3 and 4 deal with this. Max going back and saving Chloe's father William's life comes at an incredible cost to Chloe's.Chloe.]]
16th Aug '15 9:54:00 PM Nauran
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

* ''VideoGame/LifeIsStrange'': [[spoiler: Episodes 3 and 4 deal with this. Max going back and saving Chloe's father William's life comes at an incredible cost to Chloe's.]]
14th Jun '15 4:15:31 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In the {{JLA-Avengers}} story arc, at one point the histories of the DC and Marvel universes were altered by the retroactive effects of a history of the two universes interacting through their respective heroes. When they realized it needed to be fixed, they first asked to see what they were saving. Barry Allen and Superman saw their deaths, Hal Jordan saw that he would become the power-mad Parallax, Hank and Janet Pym saw [[NeverLiveItDown Hank striking Janet]], etc and they realized they were deciding the fates of potentially billions of people. The heroes decided to go forward in spite of what would happen to them.

to:

* In the {{JLA-Avengers}} ''ComicBook/JLAAvengers'' story arc, at one point the histories of the DC and Marvel universes were altered by the retroactive effects of a history of the two universes interacting through their respective heroes. When they realized it needed to be fixed, they first asked to see what they were saving. Barry Allen and Superman saw their deaths, Hal Jordan saw that he would become the power-mad Parallax, Hank and Janet Pym saw [[NeverLiveItDown Hank striking Janet]], etc and they realized they were deciding the fates of potentially billions of people. The heroes decided to go forward in spite of what would happen to them.
13th Jun '15 7:51:34 AM TheUnknownUploader
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'':
13th Jun '15 7:49:06 AM TheUnknownUploader
Is there an issue? Send a Message


--> "...(T)here's rules to this stuff. Wishing an event to be changes elements before and after it; memories will be destroyed, babies will not be born, potential worlds could be evaporated by your wish."
* ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'':

to:

--> "...(T)here's There's rules to this stuff. Wishing an event to be changes elements before and after it; memories will be destroyed, ''[[RetGone babies will not be born, potential worlds born!]]'' [[MikeNelsonDestroyerOfWorlds Potential]] ''[[MikeNelsonDestroyerOfWorlds worlds]]'' [[MikeNelsonDestroyerOfWorlds could be evaporated by your wish."
* ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'':
be]] ''[[MikeNelsonDestroyerOfWorlds evaporated.]]'' [[PunctuatedForEmphasis By. Your. Wish.]]
** [[CrowningMomentOfFunny This warning causes Jake to throw up in stress.]]
31st May '15 7:45:20 PM Discar
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In the "ComicBook/AgeOfApocalypse" arc of MarvelComics; set in a changed present where Charles Xavier was killed in the past; Magneto and Rogue have a son. The Time Traveler Bishop wants to change things back. Magneto supports Bishop in this, but reminds him that if they succeed; his son will be gone forever.
** Presumably this also bothered some writers; who later wrote that this world continued to exist as an AlternateUniverse. (Btw, Jean Grey stopped the nukes in the end.)

to:

* In the "ComicBook/AgeOfApocalypse" arc of MarvelComics; set in a changed present where Charles Xavier was killed in the past; Magneto and Rogue have a son. The Time Traveler Bishop wants to change things back. Magneto supports Bishop in this, but reminds him that if they succeed; his son will be gone forever.
**
forever. Presumably this also bothered some writers; who later wrote that this world continued to exist as an AlternateUniverse. (Btw, Jean Grey stopped the nukes in the end.)



* Pointed out in ''ComicBook/AstroCity''. Samaritan changes the future into a utopia, but his family was never born, and his old house is replaced with a future Taco Bell.

to:

* Pointed out in ''ComicBook/AstroCity''. ''ComicBook/AstroCity'':
**
Samaritan changes the future into a utopia, but his family was never born, and his old house is replaced with a future Taco Bell.



-->'''Major General Hank Landry''': ''My goodness, people, the arrogance of what you're asking us to help you do is mind-boggling!''

to:

-->'''Major --->'''Major General Hank Landry''': ''My My goodness, people, the arrogance of what you're asking us to help you do is mind-boggling!''mind-boggling!



* [[AvertedTrope Averted]] in ''Literature/{{Animorphs}} Megamorphs 3''. Some things in the altered future may have been better, many things were worse, but in the end when Rachel asked Cassie if they fixed everything, all Cassie could say was that "they put it all back."
** Although, seeing how the [[AlienInvasion Yeerks were just a couple steps from taking over the Earth]], [[ThoseWackyNazis the Nazis won World War II]], "unfit" people were being eradicated, rebellious people were being "reeducated", "fit" people were forced to breed repeatedly, and [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking the only videogame in existence was Pong]], I doubt it could be much worse.
*** Yes, originally, that was true. But once the Ellimist and Crayak sent the kids back and they started trying to stop the BadFuture from happening, other, possibly good things started happening. D-day still occurred, for example, but Hitler was just a driver, and there was the distinct possibility that the Germans were the good guys. It was never made clear (which was completely intentional, of course).

to:

* ''Literature/{{Animorphs}}'':
**
[[AvertedTrope Averted]] in ''Literature/{{Animorphs}} Megamorphs ''Megamorphs 3''. Some things in the altered future may have been better, many things were worse, but in the end when Rachel asked Cassie if they fixed everything, all Cassie could say was that "they put it all back."
** Although, seeing how the [[AlienInvasion Yeerks were just a couple steps from taking over the Earth]], [[ThoseWackyNazis the Nazis won World War II]], "unfit" people were being eradicated, rebellious people were being "reeducated", "fit" people were forced to breed repeatedly, and [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking the only videogame in existence was Pong]], I doubt it could be much worse.
*** Yes, originally, that was true. But once the Ellimist and Crayak sent the kids back and they started trying to stop the BadFuture from happening, other, possibly good things started happening. D-day still occurred, for example, but Hitler was just a driver, and there was the distinct possibility that the Germans were the good guys. It was never made clear (which was completely intentional, of course).
"



* Addressed in Creator/OrsonScottCard's novel ''Literature/PastwatchTheRedemptionOfChristopherColumbus'', where the organization that just discovered time travel is quite aware that interfering with the past will erase the existence of everyone in the current timeline and insists on having the world vote on whether or not to SetRightWhatOnceWentWrong. As humanity is facing imminent extinction anyway at that point, the vote passes.
** It should be noted that, at first, they ask scientists to make sure that there's only one reality. This takes years, but eventually scientists confirm that time travel will not result in a separate timeline but will rewrite reality. How they can possibly confirm this is anybody's guess.
** The scientists also have to figure out how to send three people into the past at the same time. It has to be at the same time right down to the millisecond, as any difference would mean that two of the people would cease to exist along with this reality the moment one of them goes into the past. They make sure to measure the cables to be as identical as possible (despite the fact that an electrical impulse travels at the speed of light). Even then, the lead physicist admits that, in the end, they have to trust the universe to allow the "moment" to stretch to allow all three to make it through before reality is erased.

to:

* Addressed in Creator/OrsonScottCard's novel ''Literature/PastwatchTheRedemptionOfChristopherColumbus'', where the organization that just discovered time travel is quite aware that interfering with the past will erase the existence of everyone in the current timeline and insists on having the world vote on whether or not to SetRightWhatOnceWentWrong. As humanity is facing imminent extinction anyway at that point, the vote passes.
**
passes. It should be noted that, at first, they ask scientists to make sure that there's only one reality. This takes years, but eventually scientists confirm that time travel will not result in a separate timeline but will rewrite reality. How they can possibly confirm this is anybody's guess.
**
guess. The scientists also have to figure out how to send three people into the past at the same time. It has to be at the same time right down to the millisecond, as any difference would mean that two of the people would cease to exist along with this reality the moment one of them goes into the past. They make sure to measure the cables to be as identical as possible (despite the fact that an electrical impulse travels at the speed of light). Even then, the lead physicist admits that, in the end, they have to trust the universe to allow the "moment" to stretch to allow all three to make it through before reality is erased.



* Played straight in ''Series/StarTrekVoyager'' "Timeless", in which Harry Kim is driven to SetRightWhatOnceWentWrong, a mistake on his part which killed the crew except for him and Chakotay who were in the Delta Flyer, but both Chakotay and his girlfriend know that this will cause them never to meet. Starfleet also saw it as dangerous and sent [=LaForge=] to stop them.

to:

* ''Series/StarTrekVoyager'':
**
Played straight in ''Series/StarTrekVoyager'' the episode "Timeless", in which Harry Kim is driven to SetRightWhatOnceWentWrong, a mistake on his part which killed the crew except for him and Chakotay who were in the Delta Flyer, but both Chakotay and his girlfriend know that this will cause them never to meet. Starfleet also saw it as dangerous and sent [=LaForge=] to stop them.



*** It's not that he didn't realize it, it's that he wouldn't consider that a solution. The entire point of the weapon was to wipe our his civilization's enemies. If he has his wife back but that core goal isn't satisfied, then he's still failed.



*** The same thing is proposed by a Past!Romulan commander who ends up communicating with Present!''Voyager'' through a NegativeSpaceWedgie. He offers to warn Starfleet of ''Voyager''[='s=] fate just before the launch, but Janeway refuses. It would have been moot anyway, as Tuvok reveals later that, according to historical data, the commander died long before the ''Voyager'' was launched.
* Mentioned and averted by way of Q in ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration''. Picard's artificial heart is damaged and he's about to die, so Q gives him the opportunity to change his past to prevent the injury that led to him getting the transplant. Picard worries that any action he'll take in the past could have disastrous consequences, but Q brushes him off with, "Nothing you do will cause the Federation to collapse or galaxies to explode. The only life at stake here is yours. In short, you're not that important."

to:

*** ** The same thing is proposed by a Past!Romulan commander who ends up communicating with Present!''Voyager'' through a NegativeSpaceWedgie. He offers to warn Starfleet of ''Voyager''[='s=] fate just before the launch, but Janeway refuses. It would have been moot anyway, as Tuvok reveals later that, according to historical data, the commander died long before the ''Voyager'' was launched.
* ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'':
**
Mentioned and averted by way of Q in ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration''.Q. Picard's artificial heart is damaged and he's about to die, so Q gives him the opportunity to change his past to prevent the injury that led to him getting the transplant. Picard worries that any action he'll take in the past could have disastrous consequences, but Q brushes him off with, "Nothing you do will cause the Federation to collapse or galaxies to explode. The only life at stake here is yours. In short, you're not that important."



* On ''Series/{{Lost}}'', several have tried to save the past...and ''all'' fail miserably and ''cause'' the event, since everything that has or will happen has already happened. Most notably, Daniel's attempts to [[spoiler:reset time so that 815 never crashed by stopping the Incident]] not only results in [[spoiler:his death]], but probably ''caused'' the Incident, since [[spoiler:we see Pierre lose his arm]], a event referenced in the very first episode with him in it.
** Maybe. ''Something'' was going wrong at the Swan site before they stepped in.
** And it seems as though he both succeeded and failed. [[spoiler: The heroes have destroyed the island in the past but seem to have been returned to the present in a timeline where they didn't (ie, their original timeline). In the timeline they did affect, there are versions of them running around that never crashed on the island. Its unclear right now whether or not these are completely separate universes or all these characters are now somehow on the same Earth.]]
*** Neither. [[spoiler:It's some sort of ghost world. They're all dead.]]
*** More specifically, [[spoiler:it's a dimension outside of linear time which they created by using power from a nuclear bomb and the island itself. The math involved fits neatly on a single page of Daniel Faraday's notebook.]]

to:

* On ''Series/{{Lost}}'', several ''Series/{{Lost}}'': Several have tried to save the past...and ''all'' fail miserably and ''cause'' the event, since everything that has or will happen has already happened. Most notably, Daniel's attempts to [[spoiler:reset time so that 815 never crashed by stopping the Incident]] not only results in [[spoiler:his death]], but probably ''caused'' the Incident, since [[spoiler:we see Pierre lose his arm]], a event referenced in the very first episode with him in it.
** Maybe. ''Something'' was going wrong at the Swan site before they stepped in.
** And it seems as though he both succeeded and failed. [[spoiler: The heroes have destroyed the island in the past but seem to have been returned to the present in a timeline where they didn't (ie, their original timeline). In the timeline they did affect, there are versions of them running around that never crashed on the island. Its unclear right now whether or not these are completely separate universes or all these characters are now somehow on the same Earth.]]
*** Neither. [[spoiler:It's some sort of ghost world. They're all dead.]]
*** More specifically, [[spoiler:it's a dimension outside of linear time which they created by using power from a nuclear bomb and the island itself. The math involved fits neatly on a single page of Daniel Faraday's notebook.]]
it.



* Done beautifully in the ''Series/DoctorWho'' episode "The Fires of Pompeii". The Doctor is saddled with the choice of not setting off Vesuvius, thereby saving Pompeii, or sending those people to their deaths in order to keep history intact [[spoiler:and to keep the Pyroviles from conquering Earth. Finally, with support from Donna, he sets off the volcano.]]

to:

* ''Series/DoctorWho'':
**
Done beautifully in the ''Series/DoctorWho'' episode "The Fires of Pompeii". The Doctor is saddled with the choice of not setting off Vesuvius, thereby saving Pompeii, or sending those people to their deaths in order to keep history intact [[spoiler:and to keep the Pyroviles from conquering Earth. Finally, with support from Donna, he sets off the volcano.]]



* ''VideoGame/PokemonMysteryDungeonExplorers of Time/Darkness/Sky'' reveals in its final chapter that [[spoiler: because you, Grovyle, and Dusknoir all came from the future, the three of you will be erased from the timeline if the Time Gears are returned. The player character gets better.]]

to:

* ''VideoGame/PokemonMysteryDungeonExplorers of Time/Darkness/Sky'' Time/Darkness/Sky'':
** The game
reveals in its final chapter that [[spoiler: because you, Grovyle, and Dusknoir all came from the future, the three of you will be erased from the timeline if the Time Gears are returned. The player character gets better.]]



* Briefly addressed in ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary''. The cast didn't dwell on it much, probably because their universe was doomed anyway.
** Though [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20050410.html the metaphor used]] when he makes the jump softens the blow. It also helps that it had only been a few weeks.

to:

* Briefly addressed in ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary''. The cast didn't dwell on it much, probably because their universe was doomed anyway.
**
anyway. Though [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20050410.html the metaphor used]] when he makes the jump softens the blow. It also helps that it had only been a few weeks.



* Averted in the ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'' episode "The Savage Time", where Alternate Batman doesn't like living in an authoritarian regime after the Allies lost WorldWarTwo.
-->'''Martian Manhunter''': You understand that if we do change the past, you - this version of you - will never have existed?
-->'''Alternate Batman''': ''Nothing'' would make me happier.

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'':
**
Averted in the ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'' episode "The Savage Time", where Alternate Batman doesn't like living in an authoritarian regime after the Allies lost WorldWarTwo.
-->'''Martian --->'''Martian Manhunter''': You understand that if we do change the past, you - this version of you - will never have existed?
-->'''Alternate
existed?\\
'''Alternate
Batman''': ''Nothing'' would make me happier.
30th May '15 3:04:59 AM Ryusui
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Voyager also had a story arc ("Year of Hell", parts 1 and 2) about an an alien WellIntentionedExtremist who built a weapon that could erase things from history; his intent was to get rid of his species' enemies, but in so doing managed to get his wife killed, leaving him continuously trying to undo the damage by erasing more civilizations. Ironically, even after hundreds of years doing this he never realized what he really needed to erase was [[spoiler:the weapon itself. Once Voyager's attack causes it to malfunction and erase itself from history, everything he ever changed returns to normal]].

to:

** Voyager also had a story arc ("Year of Hell", parts 1 and 2) about an an alien WellIntentionedExtremist who built a weapon that could erase things from history; his intent was to get rid of his species' enemies, but failed to realize that interbreeding with them in so doing managed the past gave his species an immunity to get a specific disease which ended up killing his wife killed, in the altered timeline, leaving him continuously trying to undo the damage by erasing more civilizations. Ironically, even after hundreds of years doing this he never realized what he really needed to erase was [[spoiler:the weapon itself. Once Voyager's attack causes it to malfunction and erase itself from history, everything he ever changed returns to normal]].



*** He could not have restored history to the point where his wife is around, take her with him to the ship, and then continue with the plan to restore the empire? She would be shielded from the effects just like the rest of the crew.
This list shows the last 10 events of 115. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.TheTimeTravellersDilemma