History Main / TheRevolutionWillNotBeVilified

17th May '16 12:47:34 AM mrnickname
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* Both the government and the anti-government rebellion in Manga/Area88 are portrayed as esentially good people; who just couldn't agree over certain issues. Then again, Manga/Area88 isn't really about the Aslani Civil War, but the dehumanising and destructive effects, war has on people. [[DontDoThisCoolThing And awesome dogfights.]]
16th May '16 5:26:19 AM portraitinflesh42
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-> ''"I am said to be a revolutionist in my sympathies, by birth, by breeding and by principle. I am always on the side of the revolutionists, because there never was a revolution unless there were some oppressive and intolerable conditions against which to revolute."''

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-> ''"I am said to be a revolutionist in my sympathies, by birth, by breeding and by principle. I am always on the side of the revolutionists, because there never was a revolution unless there were some oppressive and intolerable conditions against which to revolute.[[PerfectlyCromulentWord revolute]]."''
6th Mar '16 5:30:18 AM Morgenthaler
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* ''PansLabyrinth'': A historical exception to the "If the revolutionaries are wearing brown, they're the bad guys" which tells us a bit about the SortingAlgorithmOfPoliticalIdeologies: If you want the DirtyCommies to be the good guys, the bad guys pretty much have to be fascists.

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* ''PansLabyrinth'': ''Film/PansLabyrinth'': A historical exception to the "If the revolutionaries are wearing brown, they're the bad guys" which tells us a bit about the SortingAlgorithmOfPoliticalIdeologies: If you want the DirtyCommies to be the good guys, the bad guys pretty much have to be fascists.
2nd Jan '16 3:54:13 PM Timjames98
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This isn't necessarily an unrealistic trope, as rebellions and revolutions almost never happen for no reason at all. They're usually the expression of real, preexisting problems and grievances, often founded on economic inequality. [[note]]It should be mentioned that Revolutions and Rebellions are not the same thing. A Rebellion is any open or armed resistance to one's Government or Ruler, but a Revolution is specifically a Rebellion that results in the thorough replacement of the original political system or government. [[/note]]

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This isn't necessarily an unrealistic trope, as rebellions and revolutions almost never happen for no reason at all. They're usually the expression of real, preexisting problems and grievances, often founded on economic inequality. [[note]]It should be mentioned that Revolutions and Rebellions are not the same thing. A Rebellion is any open or armed resistance to one's Government or Ruler, but a Revolution is specifically a Rebellion that results in the thorough replacement of the original political system or government. [[/note]]
inequality.
2nd Jan '16 1:29:44 PM JulianLapostat
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Even so, that should not imply that the revolutionaries or rebels choose the most liberating tactics, especially when applied in a historical context where revolutions can becoming complex and dangerous. Revolutions in the strict definition is defined as an ideological and comprehensive overhaul of the pre-existing government and system. Sometimes this is a spontaneous expression of the population and usually a simple desire of changing the system. Other times it's an ideological attempt at creating a new system to match a particular set of principles. In the case of the former, it is a more winning and genuine revolutionary spirit which may or may not find their faith rewarded by the new regime. Here one can take the side of the people's initial hopes and dreams, rather than the shape and outcome that followed. In the case of the latter, it largely depends on the nature of the given ideology being proposed, which can potentially complicate and polarize the outcome since almost all revolutionary events fracture on the question of ideology and means to enforce and practise it. One must also be careful in using the word Revolution and Rebellion. All revolutions ''are'' rebellions against the established order, but all rebellions ''need not be'' revolutions. Rebellions are driven mostly in opposition to the existing system without necessarily an idea in place to replace the new regime. Rebellions can even include military and parliamentary coups which are usually not seen as positive examples of this trope. They are also vague, limited in outcome and yet, ironically, they are generally more spontaneous as expressions and reactions of genuine sentiments than a revolutionary program.

to:

Even so, that should not imply that the revolutionaries or rebels choose the most liberating tactics, especially when applied in a historical context where revolutions can becoming complex and dangerous. Revolutions in the strict definition is defined as an ideological and comprehensive overhaul of the pre-existing government and system. Sometimes this is a spontaneous expression of the population and usually a simple desire of changing the system. Other times it's an ideological attempt at creating a new system to match a particular set of principles. In the case of the former, it is a more winning and genuine revolutionary spirit which may or may not find their faith rewarded by the new regime. Here one can take the side of the people's initial hopes and dreams, rather than the shape and outcome that followed. In the case of the latter, it largely depends on the nature of the given ideology being proposed, which can potentially complicate and polarize the outcome since almost all revolutionary events fracture on the question of ideology and means to enforce and practise it. it.

One must also be careful in using the word Revolution and Rebellion. All revolutions ''are'' rebellions against the established order, but all rebellions ''need not be'' revolutions. Rebellions are driven mostly in opposition to the existing system without necessarily an idea in place to replace the new regime. Rebellions can even include military and parliamentary coups which are usually not seen as positive examples of this trope. They are also vague, limited in outcome and yet, ironically, they are generally more spontaneous as expressions and reactions of genuine sentiments than a revolutionary program.
2nd Jan '16 1:22:48 PM JulianLapostat
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* [[TheEmpire The Galactic Empire]] in ''StarWars'' is remarkably evil, what with the racist motives and the EarthShatteringKaboom. The Rebellion, on the other hand, wore halos. This was eventually fleshed out in the ExpandedUniverse with both sides [[KickTheDog kicking]] or [[PetTheDog petting the dog]]. However the Rebellion is ''still'' much better.
** In a technical sense, the Rebels in the films are not really revolutionaries, since they want to restore the Old Republic. So they are more specifically LaResistance. They oppose the deposition of the Old Republic and don't seek to install a new government or alternate form of system.

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* [[TheEmpire The Galactic Empire]] in ''StarWars'' ''Franchise/StarWars'' is remarkably evil, what with the racist motives and the EarthShatteringKaboom. The Rebellion, on the other hand, wore halos. This was eventually fleshed out in the ExpandedUniverse with both sides [[KickTheDog kicking]] or [[PetTheDog petting the dog]]. However the Rebellion is ''still'' much better.
** In a technical sense, the Rebels in the films are not really revolutionaries, since they want to restore the Old Republic. So they are more specifically LaResistance. They oppose the deposition of the Old Republic and don't seek to install a new kind of government or alternate form of system.system, but the one the Empire destroyed. The Old Republic in the Prequels is shown to be overly stuffy and bureaucratic, and it easily gets manipulated into becoming TheEmpire under EmergencyAuthority.



* ''Film/VivaZapata'' by Creator/EliaKazan was an attempt at reconstructing this trope. Kazan had become an ex-communist but he believed that genuine revolutionary change was a good thing to strive for. In the film Zapata after succeeding in his rebellion takes office but worries that he'll become a tyrant like he once opposed, so he resolves to fight and live among the people inspiring them from below rather than above.

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* ''Film/VivaZapata'' ''Film/{{Spartacus}}'' by Creator/StanleyKubrick, Dalton Trumbo and Creator/KirkDouglas portrays the Third Servile War as a fight between the slaves and ''UsefulNotes/TheRomanRepublic''. Spartacus and his fellow ex-gladiators initially fight for their freedom from bondage, and escape from Rome, but they don't seem to have any desire to topple the Republic and establish an abolitionist regime. The historical record is fuzzy on this point.
* ''Viva Zapata!''
by Creator/EliaKazan was an attempt at reconstructing this trope. Kazan had become an ex-communist but he believed that genuine revolutionary change was a good thing to strive for. In the film Zapata after succeeding in his rebellion takes office but worries that he'll become a tyrant like he once opposed, so he resolves to fight and live among the people inspiring them from below rather than above.
2nd Jan '16 1:15:34 PM Timjames98
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This isn't necessarily an unrealistic trope, as rebellions and revolutions never happen for no reason at all. They're usually the expression of real, preexisting problems and grievances, often founded on economic inequality.

to:

This isn't necessarily an unrealistic trope, as rebellions and revolutions almost never happen for no reason at all. They're usually the expression of real, preexisting problems and grievances, often founded on economic inequality.
inequality. [[note]]It should be mentioned that Revolutions and Rebellions are not the same thing. A Rebellion is any open or armed resistance to one's Government or Ruler, but a Revolution is specifically a Rebellion that results in the thorough replacement of the original political system or government. [[/note]]
2nd Jan '16 12:41:00 PM JulianLapostat
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Even so, that doesn't mean the rebels must always choose the most liberating tactics, as in historical examples where all-too-often the rebels, both historically and in fiction, utilize barbaric tactics and regularly commit war crimes. Frequently they are the 'bad guys', [[TakeAThirdOption or they and their government]] [[EvilVersusEvil both are]]. Depending on your political views, you can find examples everywhere: UsefulNotes/CheGuevara may have his fans, but the Cuban revolution was far from an expression of "workers' power", and the long-term results are debatable. Likewise, see China or anything called a [[PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny Glorious Revolution or People's Revolution]]. On the other side of the political spectrum, ruling forces frequently use violent groups of extremists to maintain the status quo, or to reverse a recent upsetting of it. Whether it's terrorist cells in Miami, brown shirts in depression-era Germany, roving gangs in Latin America, or competing groups of fighters with a variety of non-neutral foreign backers in war-torn Middle Eastern nations, not all "rebels" are spontaneously born from the "masses' desire for freedom."

It goes almost without saying that things taking place in the modern day of the country they are made in are as likely to avert this trope as not - just ask [[Series/TwentyFour Jack Bauer]].

Contrast with TheRemnant and the DarkMessiah. When the rebels are generally good but hampered by infighting, it's WeAreStrugglingTogether. For the opposite, see TheRevolutionWillNotBeCivilized. For the case where the whole conflict really was "civilized" (for better or worse), see VelvetRevolution.

to:

Even so, that doesn't mean should not imply that the revolutionaries or rebels must always choose the most liberating tactics, as especially when applied in a historical examples context where all-too-often revolutions can becoming complex and dangerous. Revolutions in the rebels, both historically strict definition is defined as an ideological and in fiction, utilize barbaric tactics comprehensive overhaul of the pre-existing government and regularly commit war crimes. Frequently they are the 'bad guys', [[TakeAThirdOption or they and their government]] [[EvilVersusEvil both are]]. Depending on your political views, you can find examples everywhere: UsefulNotes/CheGuevara may have his fans, but the Cuban revolution was far from an system. Sometimes this is a spontaneous expression of "workers' power", the population and usually a simple desire of changing the long-term results are debatable. Likewise, see China or anything called system. Other times it's an ideological attempt at creating a [[PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny Glorious Revolution or People's Revolution]]. On new system to match a particular set of principles. In the other case of the former, it is a more winning and genuine revolutionary spirit which may or may not find their faith rewarded by the new regime. Here one can take the side of the political spectrum, ruling forces frequently use violent groups of extremists to maintain people's initial hopes and dreams, rather than the status quo, or shape and outcome that followed. In the case of the latter, it largely depends on the nature of the given ideology being proposed, which can potentially complicate and polarize the outcome since almost all revolutionary events fracture on the question of ideology and means to reverse a recent upsetting of enforce and practise it. Whether it's terrorist cells One must also be careful in Miami, brown shirts in depression-era Germany, roving gangs in Latin America, or competing groups of fighters with a variety of non-neutral foreign backers in war-torn Middle Eastern nations, using the word Revolution and Rebellion. All revolutions ''are'' rebellions against the established order, but all rebellions ''need not all "rebels" be'' revolutions. Rebellions are spontaneously born from driven mostly in opposition to the "masses' desire for freedom."

existing system without necessarily an idea in place to replace the new regime. Rebellions can even include military and parliamentary coups which are usually not seen as positive examples of this trope. They are also vague, limited in outcome and yet, ironically, they are generally more spontaneous as expressions and reactions of genuine sentiments than a revolutionary program.

It goes almost without saying that things taking place in the modern day of the country they are made in are as likely to avert this trope as not - just ask [[Series/TwentyFour Jack Bauer]].

Bauer]].

Contrast with TheRemnant and the DarkMessiah. See also the related and often confused trope of LaResistance. When the rebels are generally good but hampered by infighting, it's WeAreStrugglingTogether. For the opposite, see TheRevolutionWillNotBeCivilized. For the case where the whole conflict really was "civilized" (for better or worse), see VelvetRevolution.



** In a technical sense, the Rebels in the films are not really revolutionaries, since they want to restore the Old Republic. So they are more specifically LaResistance. They oppose the deposition of the Old Republic and don't seek to install a new government or alternate form of system.



* ''Film/TheBattleshipPotemkin'' and any other Soviet depiction of the Russian Revolution. For obvious reasons, Western depictions of the same never play this completely straight and will usually portray it as a FullCircleRevolution.
** The one exception is Creator/WarrenBeatty's ''Film/{{Reds}}'', a biopic of American communist John Reed which defends the Russian Revolution and portrays the Bolsheviks sympathetically, though still marred with flaws of bureaucratic fussiness, whose authoritarian nature also irritates other leftists.
* Averted in a few films of ''Literature/LesMiserables'' made at points of anti-Communist hysteria, which portray Enjolras as a dangerous kook, and Marius as a wide-eyed innocent caught up in his overzealous mission.

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* ''Film/TheBattleshipPotemkin'' and any other Soviet depiction of the Russian Revolution. For obvious reasons, Western depictions of the same (which are quite rare) never play this completely straight and will usually portray it as a FullCircleRevolution.
** The one exception is * Creator/WarrenBeatty's ''Film/{{Reds}}'', a biopic of American communist John Reed which defends the Russian Revolution and portrays the Bolsheviks sympathetically, though still marred with flaws of bureaucratic fussiness, whose authoritarian nature also irritates other leftists.
* Averted in a few films Some film versions of ''Literature/LesMiserables'' made at points of anti-Communist hysteria, which portray Enjolras as a dangerous kook, and Marius as a wide-eyed innocent caught up in his overzealous mission.mission. This is however played straight in the highly popular Film/LesMiserables2012'' where Enjolras is portrayed in the same manner as Creator/VictorHugo's original vision.
* ''Film/VivaZapata'' by Creator/EliaKazan was an attempt at reconstructing this trope. Kazan had become an ex-communist but he believed that genuine revolutionary change was a good thing to strive for. In the film Zapata after succeeding in his rebellion takes office but worries that he'll become a tyrant like he once opposed, so he resolves to fight and live among the people inspiring them from below rather than above.
14th Nov '15 5:24:41 PM nombretomado
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* The entire point of ''Anime/GenesisClimberMospeada'' (which became the third season of {{Robotech}}) was an armed insurgency against the Inbits occupying Earth. Any Inbits that saw the error of their treatment of humans underwent a HeelFaceTurn eventually, while those that did not defect became progressively more genocidal in attempting to wipe out the human resistance.

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* The entire point of ''Anime/GenesisClimberMospeada'' (which became the third season of {{Robotech}}) ''{{Anime/Robotech}}'') was an armed insurgency against the Inbits occupying Earth. Any Inbits that saw the error of their treatment of humans underwent a HeelFaceTurn eventually, while those that did not defect became progressively more genocidal in attempting to wipe out the human resistance.
13th Nov '15 4:18:06 AM GenBolt
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*** It is worth noting however, that while the pilots are treated as being noble because of their role as people who, particularly in the first arc, carry out orders rather than actively making decisions, the series doesn't attempt to depict their tactics as being any less violent, aggressive and deceitful than their enemies, frequently more so. In the first four episodes the audience sees: Heero conclude that the safest option to avoid detection is to shell a civilian aircraft, Heero try to murder an unarmed civilian, Wufei kill a dormitory full of trainees in their sleep with explosives and Duo blow up part of a hospital in order to rescue Heero. From the standpoint of Earth's residents, the Gundam pilots are nothing more than romanticized terrorists for the first ten or so episodes.
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