History Main / TheProblemWithFightingDeath

7th Jun '16 7:41:22 PM Willbyr
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* In the Hades chapter of ''SaintSeiya'', this question is left unaddressed. In the follow up Heaven chapter, the gods, angry at the dead Gold Saints for killing Hades cursed them to be trapped in a statue for all eternity. Hades being a repeat OmnicidalManiac [[JerkassGods didn't affect their judgement]].
** In ''SaintSeiyaTheLostCanvas'' this is actually explicitly referenced. At one point one of the Gold Saints (while living) is teleported into Hades (the location) and notices that all of his dead friends are trapped in the ice of the ninth circle, cursed to this punishment for having opposed Hades. It backfires since their souls help the Gold Saint beat the crap out of his opponent by [[SuperEmpowering powering him up. This ultimately gives him enough determination to decide to end things once and for all with Hades, when the next war comes around.]]

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* In the Hades chapter of ''SaintSeiya'', ''Manga/SaintSeiya'', this question is left unaddressed. In the follow up Heaven chapter, the gods, angry at the dead Gold Saints for killing Hades cursed them to be trapped in a statue for all eternity. Hades being a repeat OmnicidalManiac [[JerkassGods didn't affect their judgement]].
** In ''SaintSeiyaTheLostCanvas'' ''Manga/SaintSeiyaTheLostCanvas'' this is actually explicitly referenced. At one point one of the Gold Saints (while living) is teleported into Hades (the location) and notices that all of his dead friends are trapped in the ice of the ninth circle, cursed to this punishment for having opposed Hades. It backfires since their souls help the Gold Saint beat the crap out of his opponent by [[SuperEmpowering powering him up. This ultimately gives him enough determination to decide to end things once and for all with Hades, when the next war comes around.]]



** The very first issue [[LampshadeHanging lampshades]] this. Dream's capture and imprisonment by the sorcerer Roderick Burgess causes ''all kinds'' of things (from the merely weird to the truly tragic) to happen all over the world. But when Dream finally escapes, Burgess's son admits that the original plan was to capture his sister, Death. Dream's response is basically, "The entire freaking world should count itself lucky you blew it and got me instead."
** Averted elsewhere, as it's implied from time-to-time that pissing Death off is the biggest (and last) mistake a person could ever make. Whenever something irritates her enough to just make her ''snippy,'' whoever's doing it stops dead. [[spoiler: Even The Kindly Ones fear her.]]

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** The very first issue [[LampshadeHanging lampshades]] {{lampshade|Hanging}}s this. Dream's capture and imprisonment by the sorcerer Roderick Burgess causes ''all kinds'' of things (from the merely weird to the truly tragic) to happen all over the world. But when Dream finally escapes, Burgess's son admits that the original plan was to capture his sister, Death. Dream's response is basically, "The entire freaking world should count itself lucky you blew it and got me instead."
** Averted elsewhere, as it's implied from time-to-time that pissing Death off is the biggest (and last) mistake a person could ever make. Whenever something irritates her enough to just make her ''snippy,'' whoever's doing it stops dead. [[spoiler: Even [[spoiler:Even The Kindly Ones fear her.]]



* Happens to Jack in {{Comicbook/Fables}} for about a page or so. During the Civil War. Results in TechnicallyLivingZombie.

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* Happens to Jack in {{Comicbook/Fables}} ''ComicBook/{{Fables}}'' for about a page or so. During the Civil War. Results in TechnicallyLivingZombie.
6th May '16 10:15:20 AM Jhamin
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* The MysticChina book by Palladium books discusses various ways to achieve immortality in an Eastern Mythology based game setting. It then establishes that Death is actually a series of functionaries working for the CelestialBureaucracy. When they start their jobs they are given a list of souls they need to shepard into the afterlife and they cannot retire until their list is finished. Which means that eventually an immortal may be the only thing standing between them and retirement. Death will make it personal if you insist on living forever.
6th May '16 6:46:04 AM aye_amber
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* In ''TheThanosImperative'', the MarvelUniverse is invaded by an alternate universe where death was destroyed and life grew unchecked throughout the universe to the point where life itself has become an EldritchAbomination, governed by "[[UltimateEvil The Many-Angled Ones]]".

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* In ''TheThanosImperative'', ''ComicBook/TheThanosImperative'', the MarvelUniverse is invaded by an alternate universe where death was destroyed and life grew unchecked throughout the universe to the point where life itself has become an EldritchAbomination, governed by "[[UltimateEvil The Many-Angled Ones]]". Ones.]]"
10th Apr '16 9:00:25 PM aye_amber
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* ''TheCatLady'' toys with this idea. The Queen of Maggots attempts to force Susan back to life after she just committed suicide so that the latter can kill off five "Parasites" still amongst the living. When Susan refuses, the Queen points out that, as the gatekeeper between life and the afterlife, she can keep Susan in a perpetual twilight existence, denying her the eternal rest she craves until she does as she's told.

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* ''TheCatLady'' ''VideoGame/TheCatLady'' toys with this idea. The Queen of Maggots attempts to force Susan back to life after she just committed suicide so that the latter can kill off five "Parasites" still amongst the living. When Susan refuses, the Queen points out that, as the gatekeeper between life and the afterlife, she can keep Susan in a perpetual twilight existence, denying her the eternal rest she craves until she does as she's told.
3rd Jan '16 12:08:47 PM nombretomado
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* In the backstory of ''SoulNomadAndTheWorldEaters'', Lord Median TheConqueror killed [[{{Psychopomp}} Master of Death]] Vigilance to save his son from a wasting disease. [[spoiler:Not only did his son die anyway, but killing Vigilance ended up completely wrecking the circle of reincarnation and allowed [[EvilCounterpart Gamma]] to steal all the souls Vigilance would normally be responsible for, it caused Vigilance's partner Virtious to kill Median in retaliation, and finally Gamma ended up poaching Vigilance's soul and his boss reincarnated him into PsychoForHire Gig and sent him back to his own world to [[OmnicidalManiac hurry along the collection]], as it were.]]

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* In the backstory of ''SoulNomadAndTheWorldEaters'', ''VideoGame/SoulNomadAndTheWorldEaters'', Lord Median TheConqueror killed [[{{Psychopomp}} Master of Death]] Vigilance to save his son from a wasting disease. [[spoiler:Not only did his son die anyway, but killing Vigilance ended up completely wrecking the circle of reincarnation and allowed [[EvilCounterpart Gamma]] to steal all the souls Vigilance would normally be responsible for, it caused Vigilance's partner Virtious to kill Median in retaliation, and finally Gamma ended up poaching Vigilance's soul and his boss reincarnated him into PsychoForHire Gig and sent him back to his own world to [[OmnicidalManiac hurry along the collection]], as it were.]]
18th Dec '15 11:47:34 AM Morgenthaler
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This is the problem with fighting Death, [[EverybodyHatesHades Hades]], TheDevil, {{Psychopomp}}s, {{Anthropomorphic Personification}}s or even {{God}}; you just can't win. However, a draw may be possible with creativity. If all that matters is that there be ''a'' Death, then replacing him with [[DontFearTheReaper someone friendlier]] or someone with whom [[DealWithTheDevil deals can be struck and honored]] can be a way to go. This can be done by appealing to someone [[LowestCosmicDenominator higher on the divinity ladder]], getting someone else to [[YouKillItYouBoughtIt kill and replace Death]] (or doing so ''yourself'', if you're willing to accept the job for the rest of eternity), and flying LikeABadassOutOfHell are all possibilities. In this way, one can say LivingForeverIsAwesome.

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This is the problem with fighting Death, [[EverybodyHatesHades Hades]], TheDevil, {{Psychopomp}}s, {{Anthropomorphic Personification}}s or even {{God}}; you just can't win. However, a draw may be possible with creativity. If all that matters is that there be ''a'' Death, then replacing him with [[DontFearTheReaper someone friendlier]] or someone with whom [[DealWithTheDevil deals can be struck and honored]] can be a way to go. This can be done by appealing to someone [[LowestCosmicDenominator higher on the divinity ladder]], getting someone else to [[YouKillItYouBoughtIt kill and replace Death]] (or doing so ''yourself'', if you're willing to accept the job for the rest of eternity), and [[EscapedFromHell flying LikeABadassOutOfHell out of Hell]] are all possibilities. In this way, one can say LivingForeverIsAwesome.



* In myth, there's the old story of ''The Russian Soldier'', who trapped Death in a magical bag. This resulted in DeathTakesAHoliday, so nobody could die - the suffering of the wounded was extended, and the old just became more and more tired and infirm... eventually, hearing the cries of the people, he released Death from the bag, expecting to become his first victim - but Death was frightened by the soldier's powers, and fled from him before resuming his duties... Which was all fine and dandy until, of course, the SOLDIER grew old, and Death would not come for him. Growing older and weaker, he became tired and weary of life... WhoWantsToLiveForever, right? He even tried to walk to the gates of Heaven himself, but they wouldn't let him in - he had sinned against the natural order of things by preventing Death from doing his job, after all. He then resigned himself to his fate and walked to the gates of Hell... but the Devil knew of his reputation, and was afraid that he'd be LikeABadassOutOfHell and take over, so he barred the doors and refused to let him in. And so, due to his fight with Death, the Russian Soldier had all paths to the final end denied to him... and some say, he wanders still, hoping for the day he will be forgiven and allowed to rest at last...

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* In myth, there's the old story of ''The Russian Soldier'', who trapped Death in a magical bag. This resulted in DeathTakesAHoliday, so nobody could die - the suffering of the wounded was extended, and the old just became more and more tired and infirm... eventually, hearing the cries of the people, he released Death from the bag, expecting to become his first victim - but Death was frightened by the soldier's powers, and fled from him before resuming his duties... Which was all fine and dandy until, of course, the SOLDIER grew old, and Death would not come for him. Growing older and weaker, he became tired and weary of life... WhoWantsToLiveForever, right? He even tried to walk to the gates of Heaven himself, but they wouldn't let him in - he had sinned against the natural order of things by preventing Death from doing his job, after all. He then resigned himself to his fate and walked to the gates of Hell... but the Devil knew of his reputation, and was afraid that he'd be LikeABadassOutOfHell and [[HellHasNewManagement take over, over Hell]], so he barred the doors and refused to let him in. And so, due to his fight with Death, the Russian Soldier had all paths to the final end denied to him... and some say, he wanders still, hoping for the day he will be forgiven and allowed to rest at last...
8th Nov '15 7:04:57 AM pittsburghmuggle
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* In ''Music/JesusChristSuperstar'''s song "Poor Jerusalem" is the line "To conquer death you only have to die..."
8th Nov '15 7:02:48 AM pittsburghmuggle
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8th Nov '15 4:45:22 AM darksoul4242
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** In ''SaintSeiyaTheLostCanvas'' this is actually explicitly referenced. At one point one of the Gold Saints (while living) is teleported into Hades (the location) and notices that all of his dead friends are trapped in the ice of the ninth circle, cursed to this punishment for having opposed Hades. It backfires since their souls help the Gold Saint beat the crap out of his opponent by [[SuperEmpowering powering him up.]]

to:

** In ''SaintSeiyaTheLostCanvas'' this is actually explicitly referenced. At one point one of the Gold Saints (while living) is teleported into Hades (the location) and notices that all of his dead friends are trapped in the ice of the ninth circle, cursed to this punishment for having opposed Hades. It backfires since their souls help the Gold Saint beat the crap out of his opponent by [[SuperEmpowering powering him up. This ultimately gives him enough determination to decide to end things once and for all with Hades, when the next war comes around.]]




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** Even with Hades having an ironclad hold on the afterlife, which basically amounts to eternal Hell, a select very few enlightened humans are canonically capable of reincarnation, including Pegasus Seiya (reincarnation of the mythological Pegasus Saint). Hades himself states this with no small measure of surprise, expressing outright rage at being wounded again by the same Saint. So the implication is that without Hades, humans would not go to eternal hell but would have their sins purged through death (as is Athena's wish), and reincarnate freely.
** Also, the JerkassGods anyway regards humanity as a [[HumansAreBastards blemish upon the cosmos]], and so would rather condone Hades' OmnicidalManiac tendencies and gang against Athena.
5th Nov '15 9:13:32 AM nombretomado
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* [[TheMightyThor Thor]], after invading Hel to rescue the souls Hela had stolen, she, as the goddess of death and decay, cursed him to never die or heal. While this actually saved his life when he battled the Midgard Serpent, a fight fated to end in a MutualKill, he eventually sent a {{Magitek}} robot called the Destroyer into Hel to make her lift the curse and restore him. By this point his bones had been reduced to mush and he was unable to move without assistance.

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* [[TheMightyThor [[ComicBook/TheMightyThor Thor]], after invading Hel to rescue the souls Hela had stolen, she, as the goddess of death and decay, cursed him to never die or heal. While this actually saved his life when he battled the Midgard Serpent, a fight fated to end in a MutualKill, he eventually sent a {{Magitek}} robot called the Destroyer into Hel to make her lift the curse and restore him. By this point his bones had been reduced to mush and he was unable to move without assistance.
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