History Main / TheEvilsOfFreeWill

21st Apr '17 4:51:13 PM rjd1922
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-->-- '''The Value of Choice''', ''{{VideoGame/Bioshock Infinite}}'' voxophone

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-->-- '''The Value of Choice''', ''{{VideoGame/Bioshock ''{{VideoGame/BioShock Infinite}}'' voxophone
20th Apr '17 10:18:32 PM Fireblood
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* The ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' episode "The Masterpiece Society" is about a human colony that used Social and Genetic engineering to decide each person's profession before they were born (and tweak them to fit that role)[[note]]And abort or alter any child who might have been born with a deformity, like blindness[[/note]]. It didn't seem that bad, as everyone loved their job and the rest of their freedoms were pretty well preserved. Until a number of them realized their society had stagnated, when the much more advanced Enterprise showed up.[[note]]Further damning is technology that was key to saving them came from a device that allowed the blind engineer of the Enterprise to see[[/note]] Then they wanted to leave, and the guardians of their colony tried to stop them.

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* The ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' episode "The Masterpiece Society" is about a human colony that used Social and Genetic engineering to decide each person's profession before they were born (and tweak them to fit that role)[[note]]And role).[[note]]And abort or alter any child who might have been born with a deformity, like blindness[[/note]]. blindness, which Geordi naturally takes great exception to.[[/note]] It didn't seem that bad, as everyone loved their job and the rest of their freedoms were pretty well preserved. Until a number of them realized their society had stagnated, when the much more advanced Enterprise showed up.[[note]]Further damning is technology that was key to saving them came from a device that allowed the blind engineer of the Enterprise to see[[/note]] see.[[/note]] Then they wanted to leave, and the guardians of their colony tried to stop them.



*** Most of these examples are NewerThanTheyThink; Literature/TheBible itself mentions nothing in regards to free will ([[ValuesDissonance as it wasn't a topic largely considered]]), so all interpretations are largely based on Thomas Aquinas works.

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*** Most of these examples are NewerThanTheyThink; Literature/TheBible itself mentions nothing in regards to free will ([[ValuesDissonance as it wasn't a topic largely considered]]), so all interpretations are largely based on Thomas Aquinas Aquinas's works.



*** Yet it still is OlderThanFeudalism. St. Augustine, the famous church father who lived around 400 AD, wrote extensively on free will and had arguments about it with both the Manicheans (a non-Christian religion of which he was a former member) and, more famously, with Pelagius (a British Christian monk). Augustine believed in free will, but also believed that humanity was tainted with original sin and would therefore be in need of divine grace to achieve moral perfection. Pelagius denied this necessity and the impact of original sin on anyone else but Adam. Augustine was not the first church father to write on free will. Among others Justin Martyr, Tertullian and Irenaeus have all written on the subject. Furthermore, even though the Bible does not raise the question directly, reading the narrative will naturally provoke the question, especially concerning Adam and Eve's actions surrounding the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (did they eat its fruit willingly or was it predetermined?)

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*** Yet it still is OlderThanFeudalism. St. Augustine, the famous church father who lived around 400 AD, wrote extensively on free will and had arguments about it with both the Manicheans (a non-Christian religion of which he was a former member) and, more famously, with Pelagius (a British Christian monk). Augustine believed in free will, but also believed that humanity was tainted with original sin and would therefore be in need of divine grace to achieve moral perfection. Pelagius denied this necessity and the impact of original sin on anyone else but Adam. Augustine was not the first church father to write on free will. Among others Justin Martyr, Tertullian and Irenaeus have all written on the subject. Furthermore, even though the Bible does not raise the question directly, reading the narrative will naturally provoke the question, especially concerning Adam and Eve's actions surrounding the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (did they eat its fruit willingly or was it predetermined?) predetermined?).



* Many despots of the UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans utopian variety have put some of this trope into operation, whether or not they believe it is a different matter. Stalin, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, and the more extremist participants of UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution come to mind, but they are really just the tip of the iceberg.

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* Many despots of the UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans utopian variety have put some of this trope into operation, whether operation (whether or not they believe it is a different matter.matter). Stalin, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, and the more extremist participants of UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution come to mind, but they are really just the tip of the iceberg.



-->'''"'''Freedom of speech is too precious a freedom to be meddled with..... And since I am sure of this in general, and since I'd expect most of you to be so too, I shall probably shock you when I say it is the purpose of my lecture tonight to argue in one particular area just the opposite. To argue, in short, [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill in favour of censorship against freedom of expression]], and to do so in an area of life that has traditionally been regarded as sacrosanct. I am talking about [[spoiler: moral and religious]] education. And especially the education a child receives at [[spoiler: home]]....[[spoiler: parents]] have no god-given licence to enculturate children in whatever ways they personally choose....in short, children have the right not to have their minds addled by [[spoiler: religion]]. [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans And we as a society have a duty to protect them from it]]. So we should no more allow [[spoiler: parents]] to teach their children to believe, for example, [[spoiler: the literal truth of the Bible, or that the parents rule their lives]], than we should allow parents to knock their children's teeth out or lock them in a dungeon. That's the negative side of what I want to say. But there will be a positive side as well. If children have a right to be protected from false ideas, they have too a right to be succored by the truth. And we as a society have a duty to provide it.'''"'''

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-->'''"'''Freedom of speech is too precious a freedom to be meddled with..... And since I am sure of this in general, and since I'd expect most of you to be so too, I shall probably shock you when I say it is the purpose of my lecture tonight to argue in one particular area just the opposite. To argue, in short, [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill [[CulturePolice in favour of censorship against freedom of expression]], and to do so in an area of life that has traditionally been regarded as sacrosanct. I am talking about [[spoiler: moral and religious]] education. And especially the education a child receives at [[spoiler: home]]....[[spoiler: parents]] have no god-given licence to enculturate children in whatever ways they personally choose....in short, children have the right not to have their minds addled by [[spoiler: religion]]. [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans And we as a society have a duty to protect them from it]]. So we should no more allow [[spoiler: parents]] to teach their children to believe, for example, [[spoiler: the literal truth of the Bible, or that the parents rule their lives]], than we should allow parents to knock their children's teeth out or lock them in a dungeon. That's the negative side of what I want to say. But there will be a positive side as well. If children have a right to be protected from false ideas, they have too a right to be succored by the truth. And we as a society have a duty to provide it.'''"'''



20th Apr '17 10:05:36 PM Fireblood
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* Though a paradise with no crime and high living standards, ''Film/DemolitionMan'' has the [[PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad ultra-PC]] [[CrapsaccharineWorld San Angeles]], where everything that isn't good for you, including the traditional method of sex, is illegal. [[BigBad Simon Phoenix]] put it best to the new society's founder [[AffablyEvil Raymond Cocteau]], "You're an evil Mister Rogers."

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* Though a paradise with no crime and high living standards, ''Film/DemolitionMan'' has the [[PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad ultra-PC]] [[CrapsaccharineWorld San Angeles]], where everything that isn't good for you, including the traditional method of sex, is illegal. [[BigBad Simon Phoenix]] put it best to the new society's founder [[AffablyEvil Raymond Cocteau]], Cocteau]]: "You're an evil Mister Rogers."



* The primary objective of [[spoiler:HYDRA]] in ''Film/CaptainAmericaTheWinterSoldier'' is to force the world to ''reject'' free will by aiming a big gun at them. [[spoiler:To achieve this objective, they corrupted SHIELD from within and used its resources to shape the world into the era of paranoia it is today.]]

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* The primary objective of [[spoiler:HYDRA]] in ''Film/CaptainAmericaTheWinterSoldier'' is to force the world to ''reject'' free will by aiming a big gun at them.worrying them into giving it up for safety. [[spoiler:To achieve this objective, they corrupted SHIELD from within and used its resources to shape the world into the era of paranoia it is today.]]



* ''Literature/BraveNewWorld''. In an inversion from the ''Film/DemolitionMan'' example, the populace is kept mindless, carefree and obedient by making sex and drugs ''[[BreadAndCircuses readily available]]''.
** Not only are they readily available, but they're also consequence-free. They've engineered a drug whose only negative side effect is a shortened lifespan, and women are taught from a ''very'' young age to regularly use contraceptives. The population is also kept {{brainwashed}} via MemeticMutation and sleep learning.

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* ''Literature/BraveNewWorld''. In an inversion from the ''Film/DemolitionMan'' example, the populace is kept mindless, carefree and obedient by making sex and drugs ''[[BreadAndCircuses readily available]]''.
**
available]]''. Not only are they readily available, that, but they're also consequence-free. They've engineered a drug whose only negative side effect is a shortened lifespan, and women are taught from a ''very'' young age to regularly use contraceptives.contraceptives (with others engineered to be sterile). The population is also kept {{brainwashed}} via MemeticMutation and sleep learning.



** It's implied that the man whose execution the narrator witnessed was killed for using the words "I," "me" and "mine".

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** It's implied that the man whose execution the narrator witnessed was killed for using the words "I," "me" and "mine"."mine", which are outlawed.
13th Apr '17 4:35:10 AM CountDorku
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* In ''TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}'' this is the motivation of She Who Lives In Her Name, the Principle of Hierarchy: to eradicate free will and everything else in the world that has no place in her ideal hierarchy. After their defeat and imprisonment, the other Yozis seem to be developing tendencies in this direction as well. The main exceptions are Isidoros, who as an incarnation of strength has to understand self-interest, and the Ebon Dragon, who finds it more satisfying to shaft and corrupt people if they fall of their own will.

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* In ''TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}'' this is the motivation of She Who Lives In Her Name, the Principle of Hierarchy: to eradicate free will and everything else in the world that has no place in her ideal hierarchy. After their defeat and imprisonment, the other Yozis seem to be developing tendencies in this direction as well. The main exceptions are Isidoros, who as an incarnation of strength has to understand self-interest, and self-interest; the Ebon Dragon, who finds it [[ForTheEvulz more satisfying to shaft and corrupt people if they fall of their own will.will]]; and Malfeas, [[ItsAllAboutMe who has trouble grasping that people have it to begin with]].
10th Apr '17 4:55:25 AM ChrisX
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If this process merges everyone into one being, see AssimilationPlot. If the villain actually succeeds in creating this world, it may become a VillainWorld and possibly a CrapsaccharineWorld. See also HappinessIsMandatory (and its BrainwashedAndCrazy variant GettingSmiliesPaintedOnYourSoul), {{Thoughtcrime}}, DystopianEdict and NietzscheWannabe. Inverted trope of HelpingWouldBeKillstealing. HobbesWasRight could be used as another reason to justify this trope.

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If this process merges everyone into one being, see AssimilationPlot. If the villain actually succeeds in creating this world, it may become a VillainWorld and possibly a CrapsaccharineWorld. See also HappinessIsMandatory (and its BrainwashedAndCrazy variant GettingSmiliesPaintedOnYourSoul), {{Thoughtcrime}}, DystopianEdict and NietzscheWannabe. Inverted trope of HelpingWouldBeKillstealing. HobbesWasRight could be used as another reason to justify this trope.
trope. Tends also to show that OrderIsNotGood.
21st Mar '17 3:28:24 PM Eagal
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* [[ComicBook/GreenLantern The Guardians of Oa]] came around to this line of thought in the aftermath of the ComicBook/SinestroCorpsWar, the ComicBook/BlackestNight, and the ComicBook/BrightestDay. At first they believed chaos was caused by emotion, so they created an army of robotic Manhunters that lacked it. But without emotion the Manhunters had no qualms about following orders to murder a space sector's population. Then they believed chaos was caused by fear, so they created the Green Lantern Corps to fight it. But then they saw that fear wasn't the only source of chaos -- love, rage, greed, compassion, hope, and even the Green Lanterns' willpower could also add chaos. So the Guardians decided that emotion and '''free will''' were the source of chaos and created a Third Army that would replace the Lanterns and eradicate free will from the universe.
** [[spoiler:It didn't work.]]
* ''ComicBook/TheTransformersIDW'': Megatron holds these views. His endgame, after killing every Autobot, would be to rebuild Cybertron as the perfect utopia, with himself in charge, obviously. When asked by Optimus Prime about things like freedom, free will and personality responsibility, Megatron's response in simple: "They won't be missed."
** Which is DramaticIrony, because these were all things Megatron ''started'' the entire war for. MotiveDecay at its finest.

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* [[ComicBook/GreenLantern The Guardians of Oa]] came around to this line of thought in the aftermath of the ComicBook/SinestroCorpsWar, the ComicBook/BlackestNight, and the ComicBook/BrightestDay. At first they believed chaos was caused by emotion, so they created an army of robotic Manhunters that lacked it. But without emotion the Manhunters had no qualms about following orders to murder a space sector's population. Then they believed chaos was caused by fear, so they created the Green Lantern Corps to fight it. But then they saw that fear wasn't the only source of chaos -- love, rage, greed, compassion, hope, and even the Green Lanterns' willpower could also add chaos. So the Guardians decided that emotion and '''free will''' were the source of chaos and created a Third Army that would replace the Lanterns and eradicate free will from the universe.
** [[spoiler:It
universe. It didn't work.]]
work.
* ''ComicBook/TheTransformersIDW'': Megatron holds these views. His endgame, after killing every Autobot, would be to rebuild Cybertron as the perfect utopia, with himself in charge, obviously. When asked by Optimus Prime about things like freedom, free will and personality responsibility, Megatron's response in is simple: "They won't be missed."
**
" Which is DramaticIrony, because these were all things Megatron ''started'' the entire war for. MotiveDecay at its finest.
19th Mar '17 12:50:59 PM Beedle
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-->"''Our minds are born festering with sin. Some are so blighted, they will never find redemption. The mind must be pulled up from the roots. My children are without blame, without fault -- and without choice. For what is the value of will when the spirit is found wanting?''"

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-->"''Our ->"''Our minds are born festering with sin. Some are so blighted, they will never find redemption. The mind must be pulled up from the roots. My children are without blame, without fault -- and without choice. For what is the value of will when the spirit is found wanting?''"
6th Mar '17 7:01:14 PM ShiroAkuma
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** [[spoiler:Kitanji is not, however.]]
6th Mar '17 1:23:49 PM SantosLHalper
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* In ''VideoGame/BioShockInfinite'', [[spoiler: an alternate version of Elizabeth]] is found to believe thusly. Having been indoctrinated, brainwashed and declared [[spoiler: Comstock's successor]], she has enacted a ruthless policy of forcing similar treatments on rebellious citizens to make them into obedient soldiers - ultimately proclaiming that free will must be eradicated from her disciples, "for what is the value of will when the spirit is found wanting?"

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* In ''VideoGame/BioShockInfinite'', [[spoiler: an alternate version of Elizabeth]] Elizabeth, who provides the page quote]] is found to believe thusly. Having been indoctrinated, brainwashed and declared [[spoiler: Comstock's successor]], she has enacted a ruthless policy of forcing similar treatments on rebellious citizens to make them into obedient soldiers - ultimately proclaiming that free will must be eradicated from her disciples, "for what is the value of will when the spirit is found wanting?"
6th Mar '17 1:21:47 PM SantosLHalper
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->"''All these people running around willy-nilly, having their own opinions and making up their own minds! It's hideously chaotic and totally unacceptable!''"
-->-- '''Dr Mindbender''' of ''Franchise/GIJoe's'' action figure file card quote.

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->"''All these people running around willy-nilly, having their own opinions -->"''Our minds are born festering with sin. Some are so blighted, they will never find redemption. The mind must be pulled up from the roots. My children are without blame, without fault -- and making up their own minds! It's hideously chaotic and totally unacceptable!''"
without choice. For what is the value of will when the spirit is found wanting?''"
-->-- '''Dr Mindbender''' '''The Value of ''Franchise/GIJoe's'' action figure file card quote.
Choice''', ''{{VideoGame/Bioshock Infinite}}'' voxophone
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