History Main / TheEvilsOfFreeWill

14th Aug '17 6:38:16 PM Threen
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* Psychologist Nicholas Humphrey who, in a lecture entitled "What Shall We Tell The Children" to Amnesty unironically shows what exactly is wrong with this concept, first by applying MoralMyopia:
-->'''"'''Freedom of speech is too precious a freedom to be meddled with..... And since I am sure of this in general, and since I'd expect most of you to be so too, I shall probably shock you when I say it is the purpose of my lecture tonight to argue in one particular area just the opposite. To argue, in short, [[CulturePolice in favour of censorship against freedom of expression]], and to do so in an area of life that has traditionally been regarded as sacrosanct. I am talking about [[spoiler: moral and religious]] education. And especially the education a child receives at [[spoiler: home]]....[[spoiler: parents]] have no god-given licence to enculturate children in whatever ways they personally choose....in short, children have the right not to have their minds addled by [[spoiler: religion]]. [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans And we as a society have a duty to protect them from it]]. So we should no more allow [[spoiler: parents]] to teach their children to believe, for example, [[spoiler: the literal truth of the Bible, or that the parents rule their lives]], than we should allow parents to knock their children's teeth out or lock them in a dungeon. That's the negative side of what I want to say. But there will be a positive side as well. If children have a right to be protected from false ideas, they have too a right to be succored by the truth. And we as a society have a duty to provide it.'''"'''
** Of course, whether he is right or wrong is a matter of perspective [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment and is best discussed elsewhere]].
16th Jul '17 6:24:15 PM Pastykake
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[[FreedomFromChoice The solution may include]] [[HeWhoFightsMonsters reeducation camps]], a [[BigBrotherIsWatching police state, censorship]], ''concentration camps'' for those who resist the previous. The usual. If there's a MadScientist or mutant around, MassHypnosis and MindControl are also handy options to turn everyone (that's left) into obedient GullibleLemmings for the BigBad to rule. In extreme cases it will include the [[IndividualityIsIllegal destruction of individuality]] [[AssimilationPlot and the creation of a]] HiveMind.

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[[FreedomFromChoice The solution may include]] [[HeWhoFightsMonsters reeducation camps]], a [[BigBrotherIsWatching police state, censorship]], ''concentration camps'' for those who resist the previous. The previous--the usual. If there's a MadScientist or mutant around, MassHypnosis and MindControl are also handy options to turn everyone (that's left) into obedient GullibleLemmings for the BigBad to rule. In extreme cases it will include the [[IndividualityIsIllegal destruction of individuality]] [[AssimilationPlot and the creation of a]] HiveMind.
22nd Jun '17 1:34:28 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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There is so much [[CrapsackWorld suffering in the world]], so much hate, inequality, ignorance. And the cause of all this evil is nothing more than [[HumansAreBastards than humans themselves and their pesky free will]]. HobbesWasRight. [[HumansAreFlawed We are selfish, narcissistic, violent]], readily tread on others to better ourselves, and while [[AMillionIsAStatistic our love is selective]], our {{Greed}} knows no bounds. Not to mention [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking the ''chaos'' of everyone having different dental hygiene habits]]. When people are capable of ''willingly'' doing so much wrong, [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans isn't removing that free will, by any means available, justified?]]

to:

There is so much [[CrapsackWorld suffering in the world]], so much hate, inequality, ignorance. And the cause of all this evil is nothing more than [[HumansAreBastards than humans themselves and their pesky free will]]. HobbesWasRight. [[HumansAreFlawed We are selfish, narcissistic, violent]], readily tread on others to better ourselves, and while [[AMillionIsAStatistic our love is selective]], our {{Greed}} knows no bounds. Not to mention [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking the ''chaos'' of [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking everyone having different dental hygiene habits]]. When people are capable of ''willingly'' doing so much wrong, [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans isn't removing that free will, by any means available, justified?]]



Contrast RousseauWasRight, where people are naturally good by their own free will.

to:

Contrast RousseauWasRight, RousseauWasRight where people are naturally good by their own free will.
22nd Jun '17 12:25:45 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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There is so much [[CrapsackWorld suffering in the world]], so much hate, inequality, ignorance, chaos. And the cause of all this evil is nothing more than [[HumansAreBastards than humans themselves and their pesky free will]]. HobbesWasRight. [[HumansAreFlawed We are selfish, narcissistic, violent]], readily tread on others to better ourselves, and while [[AMillionIsAStatistic our love is selective]], our {{Greed}} knows no bounds. When people are capable of ''willingly'' doing so much wrong, [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans isn't removing that free will, by any means available, justified?]]

to:

There is so much [[CrapsackWorld suffering in the world]], so much hate, inequality, ignorance, chaos.ignorance. And the cause of all this evil is nothing more than [[HumansAreBastards than humans themselves and their pesky free will]]. HobbesWasRight. [[HumansAreFlawed We are selfish, narcissistic, violent]], readily tread on others to better ourselves, and while [[AMillionIsAStatistic our love is selective]], our {{Greed}} knows no bounds. Not to mention [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking the ''chaos'' of everyone having different dental hygiene habits]]. When people are capable of ''willingly'' doing so much wrong, [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans isn't removing that free will, by any means available, justified?]]



A frequent element of UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans and a [[StockEvilOverlordTactics quintessential]] EvilPlan to TakeOverTheWorld. Frequently justified by the WellIntentionedExtremist VisionaryVillain or KnightTemplar in a JustBetweenYouAndMe with the hero as being a small sacrifice. If it means no conflict, a quadruplication of the standard of living, the eradication of inequality, poverty, discrimination, and ''hate...'' [[DealWithTheDevil isn't it worth it?]]

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A frequent element of UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans and a [[StockEvilOverlordTactics quintessential]] EvilPlan to TakeOverTheWorld. Frequently justified by the WellIntentionedExtremist VisionaryVillain or KnightTemplar in a JustBetweenYouAndMe with the hero as being a small sacrifice. If it means no the end of conflict, a quadruplication of the standard of living, the eradication of inequality, poverty, discrimination, and ''hate...'' hate... [[DealWithTheDevil isn't it worth it?]]
21st Jun '17 11:23:49 PM WikiGuardianAngel
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Of course, the villain will [[TautologicalTemplar rarely mention]] why ''he'' deserves to be at the top of this new society as the lone person remaining with free will. If he does, expect him to justify it by saying he's [[{{Pride}} the best qualified]] to decide what's best for everyone else. Regardless, if he succeeds he will create an authoritarian {{Dystopia}} or become the HiveQueen (well, King) of this new society. If, on the other hand, he is genuinely willing to become just another drone in the hive with someone (or some''thing'') else that he considers more "worthy" being in control, [[TheUnfetted be ''VERY'' afraid...]]

to:

Of course, the villain will [[TautologicalTemplar rarely mention]] why ''he'' deserves to be at the top of this new society as the lone person remaining with free will. If he does, expect him to justify it by saying he's [[{{Pride}} the best qualified]] to decide what's best for everyone else. Regardless, if he succeeds he will create an authoritarian {{Dystopia}} or become the HiveQueen (well, King) of this new society. If, on the other hand, he is genuinely willing to become just another drone in the hive with someone (or some''thing'') else that he considers more "worthy" being in control, [[TheUnfetted [[TheUnfettered be ''VERY'' afraid...]]
]]
21st Jun '17 8:17:09 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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* The influential 20th Century psychologist [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner B. F. Skinner]] argues in his 1971 book ''Beyond Freedom and Dignity'' that the entrenched beliefs [[ValuesDissonance in western society]] in being in control of our actions and of free will and moral autonomy being sacrosanct is hindering the potential of using science and technology in altering and regulating human behavior to make a better and happier society. Check the other Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Freedom_and_Dignity).

to:

* The influential 20th Century psychologist [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner B. F. Skinner]] argues in his 1971 book ''Beyond Freedom and Dignity'' that the entrenched beliefs [[ValuesDissonance in western society]] in being in control of our actions and of free will and moral autonomy being sacrosanct is hindering the potential of using science and technology in altering and regulating human behavior to make a better and happier society. Check the other Wiki (https://en.([[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Freedom_and_Dignity).org/wiki/Beyond_Freedom_and_Dignity Beyond Freedom and Dignity]]).
21st Jun '17 8:09:11 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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Contrast RousseauWasRight, where people are naturally inclined to be good on their own free will.

to:

Contrast RousseauWasRight, where people are naturally inclined to be good on by their own free will.



* The influential 20th Century psychologist [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner B. F. Skinner]] argues in his 1971 book ''Beyond Freedom and Dignity'' that the entrenched belief [[ValuesDissonance in western society]] of free will and moral autonomy being sacrosanct is hindering the potential of using science and technology in altering and regulating human behavior to make a better and happier society. Check the other Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Freedom_and_Dignity).

to:

* The influential 20th Century psychologist [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner B. F. Skinner]] argues in his 1971 book ''Beyond Freedom and Dignity'' that the entrenched belief beliefs [[ValuesDissonance in western society]] in being in control of our actions and of free will and moral autonomy being sacrosanct is hindering the potential of using science and technology in altering and regulating human behavior to make a better and happier society. Check the other Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Freedom_and_Dignity).
--> '''Skinner''': ''If freedom is a requisite for human happiness, then all thatís necessary is to provide the illusion of freedom.''
21st Jun '17 7:47:12 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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* The influential 20th Century psychologist [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner B. F. Skinner's]] argues in his 1971 book "Beyond Freedom and Dignity" that the entrenched belief [[ValuesDissonance in western society]] of free will and moral autonomy being sacrosanct is holding back the potential of science and technology to make a better and happier society. Check the other Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Freedom_and_Dignity).

to:

* The influential 20th Century psychologist [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner B. F. Skinner's]] Skinner]] argues in his 1971 book "Beyond ''Beyond Freedom and Dignity" Dignity'' that the entrenched belief [[ValuesDissonance in western society]] of free will and moral autonomy being sacrosanct is holding back hindering the potential of using science and technology in altering and regulating human behavior to make a better and happier society. Check the other Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Freedom_and_Dignity).
21st Jun '17 7:21:10 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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Contrast RosseauWasRight, where people are naturally inclined to be good on their own free will.

to:

Contrast RosseauWasRight, RousseauWasRight, where people are naturally inclined to be good on their own free will.
21st Jun '17 7:20:53 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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There is so much [[CrapsackWorld suffering in the world]], so much hate, inequality, and ignorance. And the cause of all this evil is nothing more than [[HumansAreBastards than humans themselves]]. HobbesWasRight, [[HumansAreFlawed we are selfish, narcissistic, violent]], readily tread on others to better ourselves, and our greed knows no bounds. When people are capable of ''willingly'' doing so much wrong, [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans doesn't it justify removing that free will, the cause of so much wrong?]]

to:

There is so much [[CrapsackWorld suffering in the world]], so much hate, inequality, and ignorance. ignorance, chaos. And the cause of all this evil is nothing more than [[HumansAreBastards than humans themselves]]. HobbesWasRight, themselves and their pesky free will]]. HobbesWasRight. [[HumansAreFlawed we We are selfish, narcissistic, violent]], readily tread on others to better ourselves, and while [[AMillionIsAStatistic our greed love is selective]], our {{Greed}} knows no bounds. When people are capable of ''willingly'' doing so much wrong, [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans doesn't it justify isn't removing that free will, the cause of so much wrong?]]
by any means available, justified?]]



Of course, the villain will [[TautologicalTemplar rarely mention]] why ''he'' deserves to be at the top of this new society as the lone person remaining with free will. If he does, expect him to justify it by saying he's [[{{Pride}} the best qualified]] to decide what's best for everyone else. Regardless, if he succeeds he will create an authoritarian {{Dystopia}} or become the HiveQueen (well, King) of this new society. If, on the other hand, he is genuinely willing to become just another drone in the hive with someone (or some''thing'') else that he considers more "worthy" being in control, be ''VERY'' afraid...

to:

Of course, the villain will [[TautologicalTemplar rarely mention]] why ''he'' deserves to be at the top of this new society as the lone person remaining with free will. If he does, expect him to justify it by saying he's [[{{Pride}} the best qualified]] to decide what's best for everyone else. Regardless, if he succeeds he will create an authoritarian {{Dystopia}} or become the HiveQueen (well, King) of this new society. If, on the other hand, he is genuinely willing to become just another drone in the hive with someone (or some''thing'') else that he considers more "worthy" being in control, [[TheUnfetted be ''VERY'' afraid...
afraid...]]



Contrast RosseauWasRight.

to:

Contrast RosseauWasRight.
RosseauWasRight, where people are naturally inclined to be good on their own free will.
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