History Main / TankGoodness

13th Dec '17 7:10:39 PM PaulA
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* The M26 Pershing, the ancestor of M47, M47, M48, and M60 was only introduced in the last year of world war 2, but is well remembered. Like the 76mm Sherman, it was delayed by Obstructive Bureaucrats who tried to reduce the gun caliber among other things. When it was finally seen in battle it was superior to the Tiger 1 and Panther. Like the Tiger it used a repurposed anti-aircraft gun but improvements made its gun closer to the Tiger 2 gun. It does have reliability problem, however, partly due to the engine essentially being M4's engine being used on a tank 10 ton heavier, which eventually results in its service in the Korean War being cut short and replaced by M4 and M46 instead. Like the Panther, the Pershing was designed, not as a heavy tank, but as an outright replacement for the Sherman, essentially being the "Missing link" between WW2-era mediums and the modern MBT.

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* The M26 Pershing, the ancestor of M47, M47, M48, and M60 was only introduced in the last year of world war 2, but is well remembered. Like the 76mm Sherman, it was delayed by Obstructive Bureaucrats who tried to reduce the gun caliber among other things. When it was finally seen in battle it was superior to the Tiger 1 and Panther. Like the Tiger it used a repurposed anti-aircraft gun but improvements made its gun closer to the Tiger 2 gun. It does have reliability problem, however, partly due to the engine essentially being M4's engine being used on a tank 10 ton heavier, which eventually results in its service in the Korean War being cut short and replaced by M4 and M46 instead. Like the Panther, the Pershing was designed, not as a heavy tank, but as an outright replacement for the Sherman, essentially being the "Missing link" between WW2-era [=WW2=]-era mediums and the modern MBT.
11th Dec '17 3:16:28 AM SwordsageRagnar
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** The electric kettle, or more specifically [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_vessel "Vessel Boiling Electric" or Boiling Vessel (BV)]] is actually a feature of British tanks that goes back to WWII. Originally, crews would either make a makeshift burner, or just simply put the kettle on top of a running engine. The U.S. has also adopted the design and is using similar devices within their own armored fighting vehicles.
10th Dec '17 3:20:00 AM onyhow
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*** Another problem with the crampness is the Christie Suspension, which, while good, eat up a lot of space. While the T-34M (which would replace the Christie suspension with torsion bar, amongst other improvements including turret for 3 people) never got into production due to outbreak of the war, post-war Soviet tanks pretty much abandon Christie suspension due to that reason.

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*** Another problem with the crampness is the Christie Suspension, which, while good, eat up a lot of space.space, and is hard to service. While the T-34M (which would replace the Christie suspension with torsion bar, amongst other improvements including turret for 3 people) never got into production due to outbreak of the war, post-war Soviet tanks pretty much abandon Christie suspension due to that reason.
4th Nov '17 5:54:32 PM KCN
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* Israeli film [[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1483831/ Lebanon]] tells the story of an Israeli tank crew during the [[UsefulNotes/ArabIsraeliConflict 1982 Lebanon war]]. What makes this movie really stand out is its perspective. You see only what the tank crew sees. That means the ''only'' window to the outside world is ''a gunsight''. This serves as pure ParanoiaFuel, and in case the viewer is claustrophobic, NightmareFuel.

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* Israeli film [[http://www.''[[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1483831/ Lebanon]] Lebanon]]'' tells the story of an Israeli tank crew during the [[UsefulNotes/ArabIsraeliConflict 1982 Lebanon war]]. What makes this movie really stand out is its perspective. You see only what the tank crew sees. That means the ''only'' window to the outside world is ''a gunsight''. This serves as pure ParanoiaFuel, and in case the viewer is claustrophobic, NightmareFuel.
3rd Nov '17 11:33:29 AM VutherA
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* The very first tank battle took place at Villers-Bretonneaux in 1918. It involved a battle between 10 tanks on the British side (1 male Mark IV, 2 female Mark [=IVs=], 7 Whippets)[[note]]:In UsefulNotes/WorldWarI British parlance, a "female" tank was one armed solely with machine guns, while a "male" tank had cannons as its main armament[[/note]] and 3 German [=A7V=] Sturmpanzerwagens. None of them were very good tanks, yet the battle looked awesome, with both sides accquiting themselves quite well: the Germans lost their lead tank, [[ICallItVera Nixie]] (whose crew later stole her back), but knocked out 4 Whippets and forced the female Mark [=IVs=] to retreat, while the British and their Australian allies ultimately won the battle.
** The very first British tanks however, were pretty noticeably ''not'' of this trope in practice. They moved at a speed slower than an adult walking, even impacts that failed to pierce the armor was likely to cause shrapnel to fly off inside the hull (forcing crews to be equipped with protective equipment made of thick leather or leather and mail), ventilation was poor and the engine being housed in the same space as the crew caused the interior to be so hot that numerous tank attacks ended prematurely from its crew being too sick to continue or even unconscious, the fuel tanks were inside and so them being ignited somehow would likely doom the entire crew in short order, and to top it off, the things were mechanically unreliable and many of them broke down or were bogged down just trying to arrive to their first battle...but that being said, their first battle had the few of them that were there catching their enemies entirely by surprise and caused the Germans to flee before them, if far too slow to actually chase after them and achieve much more than making them run away.
*** Their slow speed, huge size and thin armor also made them fantastically vulnerable to artillery and even light German mortars.

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* The very first tank battle took place at Villers-Bretonneaux in 1918. It involved a battle between 10 tanks on the British side (1 male Mark IV, 2 female Mark [=IVs=], 7 Whippets)[[note]]:In UsefulNotes/WorldWarI British parlance, a "female" tank was one armed solely with machine guns, while a "male" tank had cannons as its main armament[[/note]] and 3 German [=A7V=] Sturmpanzerwagens. None of them were very good tanks, yet the battle looked awesome, with both sides accquiting acquiting themselves quite well: the Germans lost their lead tank, [[ICallItVera Nixie]] (whose crew later stole her back), but knocked out 4 Whippets and forced the female Mark [=IVs=] to retreat, while the British and their Australian allies ultimately won the battle.
** The very first British tanks however, were pretty noticeably ''not'' of this trope in practice. practice, and their German counterparts weren't much different. They moved at a speed slower than an adult walking, even impacts that failed to pierce the armor was likely to cause shrapnel to fly off inside the hull (forcing crews to be equipped with protective equipment made of thick leather or leather and mail), ventilation was poor and the engine being housed in the same space as the crew caused the interior to be so hot that numerous tank attacks ended prematurely from its crew being too sick to continue or even unconscious, the fuel tanks were inside and so them being ignited somehow would likely doom the entire crew in short order, their combination of slow speed, huge size and thin armor also made them fantastically vulnerable to artillery and even light German mortars, and to top it off, the things were mechanically unreliable and many of them broke down or were bogged down just trying to arrive to their first battle...but that being said, their first battle had the few of them that were there catching their enemies entirely by surprise and caused the Germans to flee before them, if far too slow to actually chase after them and achieve much more than making them run away.
*** Their slow speed, huge size and thin armor also made them fantastically vulnerable
away. Well, tanks had to artillery and even light German mortars.start somewhere...
28th Oct '17 4:53:17 AM DilanduAlbato
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*** By the WWI standards, it was the pinnacle of heavy tank development. She was armed with a primary 75mm gun in rotating turret, four sponson mounted machine guns and one rear-mounted machinegun turret. Her frontal armor could shrug off direct hits by any German field gun (which were. basically, capable of disabling any other tank). Her terrain-crossing abilities are impressive even today; she was capalbe to climb 1,2 meter wall, cross the four-meters wide anti-tank moats and due to sheer mass & size could break nearly everything that came on its way. Internally, she was ergonomically thought-out well, both her engines could be serviced from inside, and her electric transmission allowed her to move (albeit very slowly) even if one of her engines break down - pretty common problem for WWI tanks!

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*** By the WWI standards, it she was the pinnacle of heavy tank development. She was armed with a primary 75mm gun in rotating turret, four sponson mounted machine guns and one rear-mounted machinegun turret. Her frontal armor could shrug off direct hits by any German field gun (which were. basically, capable of disabling any other tank). Her terrain-crossing abilities are impressive even today; she was capalbe to climb 1,2 meter wall, cross the four-meters wide anti-tank moats and due to sheer mass & size could break nearly everything that came on its her way. Internally, she was ergonomically thought-out well, both her engines could be serviced from inside, and her electric transmission allowed her to move (albeit very slowly) even if one of her engines break down - pretty common problem for WWI tanks!



*** In December 1939, one tank, the "Lorraine" was experimentally up-armored. After refit, her frontal armor was 90 mm thick, side armor was 65 mm thick, and she was basically invunerable to german anti-tank guns even at point-blank range. Her weight, though, reached the 75 ton, which made "Lorraine" still the heaviest tank actually comissioned.

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*** In December 1939, one tank, the "Lorraine" was experimentally up-armored. After refit, her frontal armor was 90 mm thick, side armor was 65 mm thick, and she was basically invunerable to german anti-tank guns even at point-blank range. Her weight, though, reached the 75 ton, which made "Lorraine" still the heaviest tank still actually comissioned.



*** And proved, like its predecessor, the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_A1E1_Independent Vickers A1E1]], to be a flop. If you look on the list of how they were lost, most were to various malfunctions due to the combination of complicated machine and USSR tech/craftsmanship.

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*** And proved, like its predecessor, the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_A1E1_Independent Vickers A1E1]], to be a flop. If you look on the list of how they were lost, most were to various malfunctions due to the combination of complicated machine and USSR tech/craftsmanship. Combining with her great size and relatively thin armor (and VERY cramped internal conditions), this tank wasn't well-suited to World War II standards.
*** For the early 1930s, the T-35 was fine, though. Her armor gave her adequate protection against light anti-tank guns, AT rifles and heavy machineguns (which were considered the main threat to tanks in early 1930s), and her multiple turrets made her really good in trench warfare, providing the suppression fire on several target at once.
*** On one tank, though, the fire control problem was partially solved in 1936 by installisng the centralized fire control system - like on naval warship. The tank commander could use stereoscopic rangefinder to follow targets and retranslate orders to gunnery crews in turrets. Surprizingly, with that system T-35 actually worked pretty well, but all reliability problems were solved only by the late 1938, when the tank itself was considered obsolete, and planned refit was cancelled.
** In late 1930s, the USSR started to seek the new heavy tank to replace the aging T-35. The initial design was still multi-turreted - albeit the number of turrets was only three, and even that was lately reduced to two (to improve armor protection). Two different designs, SMK tank and T-100 tank were developed by competing tank factories and prototypes were tested under field conditions of Winter War. Eventually, SMK won the competition and was recommended for mass production... which doesn't started, because single-turret KV-1 tank prototype demonstrated MUCH better characteristics.


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**** It is interesting to note, that the main designer of P-1000 - engineer Edward Grotte - in early 1930s tried to persuade Soviet Government to build quite similar 1000-ton tank with 12-inch cannons. This may be the reason, why USSR decided to terminate the contract with Edward Grotte...


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** After the war, USSR build a really impressive [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IS_tank_family#Object_260_IS-7 IS-7 heavy tank]]. Reaching 68 tons, this tank was the heaviest in her line and heaviest of post-war tanks actually considered for deployment. She was armed with long-barreled 130-mm cannon (not counting two REALLY heavy 14.5-mm machineguns and six light 7.62-mm machineguns, all on remote controlled mounts), and protected with six-inch armor in " pike nose" configuration, which basically made her frontal armor inpenetrable to any existing AT weaponry. Despite being as heavy as "Tiger-II", IS-7 was much more mobile, capable of reaching 60 km/h on good road and with much less gound pressure. Eventually, though, this impressive tank was considered too heavy for frontal deployment, too costly for mass production, and much cheaper T-10 heavy tank was produced in limited numbers instead.
20th Oct '17 1:53:03 PM DilanduAlbato
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** French [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Char2C_Berry.jpg Char 2C]], outclassing and outweighing any other tank of its time, it was armed with a primary 75mm gun and 4 sponson mounted machine guns. Only, this tank was not produced before early 20ies, and even then would have been grossly inadequate for a WWI battlefield (think "political meddling"). As for WWII... Let's just say that given its size, it had great psychological value, so French command made sure to keep it out of harm's way, because even a small cannon would have pierced its WWI-era armor. Of course, this allowed the Germans to capture them and show them in Berlin as "supertanks", even though both armies knew what was the truth. Oh, irony...

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** French [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Char2C_Berry.jpg FCM Char 2C]], outclassing and outweighing any other tank of its time, time.
*** By the WWI standards,
it was the pinnacle of heavy tank development. She was armed with a primary 75mm gun and 4 in rotating turret, four sponson mounted machine guns. guns and one rear-mounted machinegun turret. Her frontal armor could shrug off direct hits by any German field gun (which were. basically, capable of disabling any other tank). Her terrain-crossing abilities are impressive even today; she was capalbe to climb 1,2 meter wall, cross the four-meters wide anti-tank moats and due to sheer mass & size could break nearly everything that came on its way. Internally, she was ergonomically thought-out well, both her engines could be serviced from inside, and her electric transmission allowed her to move (albeit very slowly) even if one of her engines break down - pretty common problem for WWI tanks!
***
Only, this tank was not produced before early 20ies, and even then would have been grossly inadequate for a WWI battlefield 20ies (think "political meddling"). As for WWII... Let's just say meddling"), and only ten machines were ever made. All ten were considered "ships" (because the FCM company was actually a shipyard), and have individual names; they were named after provinces of France.
*** It is interesting to note,
that given its despite being old and outdated by the times of World War II, those giant tanks weren't actually completely incapable. The most numerous German anti-tank gun in early war years, the 3.7 cm Pak 36, could penetrate their frontal armor only from relatively short distance. On the other hands, their giant size, it had great psychological value, so French command low speed and transportation problems made sure them nearly completely unsuitable for highly-mobile World War II armored warfare...
*** In December 1939, one tank, the "Lorraine" was experimentally up-armored. After refit, her frontal armor was 90 mm thick, side armor was 65 mm thick, and she was basically invunerable
to keep it out of harm's way, because german anti-tank guns even a small cannon would have pierced its WWI-era armor. Of course, this allowed at point-blank range. Her weight, though, reached the Germans to capture them and show them in Berlin as "supertanks", even though both armies knew what was 75 ton, which made "Lorraine" still the truth. Oh, irony...heaviest tank actually comissioned.
4th Oct '17 2:17:17 PM TheBigBopper
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[-[[caption-width-right:350:The Landkreuzer P-1000 Ratte, planned by the Nazis in [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII WWII]] but never went into production.]]-]

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[-[[caption-width-right:350:The Landkreuzer P-1000 Ratte, planned by the Nazis in [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII WWII]] but never went put into production.]]-]
16th Sep '17 5:26:36 PM nombretomado
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* The 1980 [=CoinOp=] game ''VideoGame/{{BattleZone|1980}}'' had you driving a tank against other tanks in a first person view.. The [[YanksWithTanks US Army]] expressed enough interest that it was the first basis for electronic simulators.

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* The 1980 [=CoinOp=] game ''VideoGame/{{BattleZone|1980}}'' had you driving a tank against other tanks in a first person view.. The [[YanksWithTanks [[UsefulNotes/YanksWithTanks US Army]] expressed enough interest that it was the first basis for electronic simulators.



* There's a good case for TruthInTelevision with this trope. Even though a single tank may not be a rampaging fortress of badassery in itself without combined arms support, it doesn't mean that they're not cool. The [[YanksWithTanks M1A2 Abrams]], [[UsefulNotes/WeAreNotTheWehrmacht Leopard 2A6]], [[UsefulNotes/BritsWithBattleships Challenger 2]], [[UsefulNotes/IsraelisWithInfraredMissiles Merkava Mk.4]], [[UsefulNotes/RussiansWithRustingRockets T-90]],[[UsefulNotes/ChineseWithChopperSupport Type-99]], [[UsefulNotes/PakistanisWithPanters Khalid]], [[UsefulNotes/GaulsWithGrenades Leclerc]] and several others are all examples of RealLife tanks that are pretty damn cool and fairly badass. Plus, they don't suffer from the CripplingOverspecialization of fictional tanks (though most of them fall somewhere separate of the others in terms of speed, armour, firepower, and cost (the hidden factor!), ensuring [[CosmeticallyDifferentSides no two nation's tanks are exactly alike]]). Most of them also have the neat feature of being totally modular - swapping the entire engine, suspension, armor plates, etc is easier and faster than actually repairing the components.

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* There's a good case for TruthInTelevision with this trope. Even though a single tank may not be a rampaging fortress of badassery in itself without combined arms support, it doesn't mean that they're not cool. The [[YanksWithTanks [[UsefulNotes/YanksWithTanks M1A2 Abrams]], [[UsefulNotes/WeAreNotTheWehrmacht Leopard 2A6]], [[UsefulNotes/BritsWithBattleships Challenger 2]], [[UsefulNotes/IsraelisWithInfraredMissiles Merkava Mk.4]], [[UsefulNotes/RussiansWithRustingRockets T-90]],[[UsefulNotes/ChineseWithChopperSupport Type-99]], [[UsefulNotes/PakistanisWithPanters Khalid]], [[UsefulNotes/GaulsWithGrenades Leclerc]] and several others are all examples of RealLife tanks that are pretty damn cool and fairly badass. Plus, they don't suffer from the CripplingOverspecialization of fictional tanks (though most of them fall somewhere separate of the others in terms of speed, armour, firepower, and cost (the hidden factor!), ensuring [[CosmeticallyDifferentSides no two nation's tanks are exactly alike]]). Most of them also have the neat feature of being totally modular - swapping the entire engine, suspension, armor plates, etc is easier and faster than actually repairing the components.



*** That said, the one thing that the YanksWithTanks are [[InternetBackdraft uncontroversially]] best at is [[EasyLogistics logistics]]. No other country can ship supplies from point A to point B faster or more reliably than the US which means that the Abrams can and do meet most of its fuel requirements. After all, there are thousands of Abrams deployed all over the world, and there has only been one instance where an Abrams ran out of fuel in the field. Indeed, the main reason for adopting the turbine engine was logistics: (1) the logistics people wanted an engine that would run most efficiently on JP-8, an oily kerosene-based jet fuel closely resembling the Jet A-1 fuel used to power most commercial jet aircraft, which (it was decided) would be the sole fuel of the US military, so they used a turbine (JP-8 can be and ''is'' used as diesel fuel, but not quite as well as it can be used in a turbine, generally speaking); (2) ''because'' the US is so good at logistics, it's generally no problem for American tanks to get their fuel.

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*** That said, the one thing that the YanksWithTanks UsefulNotes/YanksWithTanks are [[InternetBackdraft uncontroversially]] best at is [[EasyLogistics logistics]]. No other country can ship supplies from point A to point B faster or more reliably than the US which means that the Abrams can and do meet most of its fuel requirements. After all, there are thousands of Abrams deployed all over the world, and there has only been one instance where an Abrams ran out of fuel in the field. Indeed, the main reason for adopting the turbine engine was logistics: (1) the logistics people wanted an engine that would run most efficiently on JP-8, an oily kerosene-based jet fuel closely resembling the Jet A-1 fuel used to power most commercial jet aircraft, which (it was decided) would be the sole fuel of the US military, so they used a turbine (JP-8 can be and ''is'' used as diesel fuel, but not quite as well as it can be used in a turbine, generally speaking); (2) ''because'' the US is so good at logistics, it's generally no problem for American tanks to get their fuel.
15th Sep '17 8:51:27 PM nombretomado
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* The most popular early online game after ''Net Trek'' was a {{Macintosh}} title by the name of ''VideoGame/{{Bolo}}''. Gameplay consisted of a fight over stationary bases that could refuel ammo and armor, destructible automatic pillboxes that could be rebuilt anywhere on the map, and your tank's ability to almost completely alter the terrain of a map thanks to a construction worker that could stockpile building materials in your tank.

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* The most popular early online game after ''Net Trek'' was a {{Macintosh}} UsefulNotes/{{Macintosh}} title by the name of ''VideoGame/{{Bolo}}''. Gameplay consisted of a fight over stationary bases that could refuel ammo and armor, destructible automatic pillboxes that could be rebuilt anywhere on the map, and your tank's ability to almost completely alter the terrain of a map thanks to a construction worker that could stockpile building materials in your tank.
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