History Main / SteamNeverDies

20th Dec '17 11:53:45 AM JamesA807
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* ''WesternAnimation/TheIronGiant'': The freight train that plows into the Giant is powered by a steam locomotive that resembles both a New York Central "Dreyfuss" steam locomotive and a Norfolk & Western J Class steam locomotive. There were no steam locomotives operating mainline freight trains in Maine in 1957, especially not from those railroads, so its also [[JustTrainWrong Just Train Wrong]].

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* ''WesternAnimation/TheIronGiant'': The freight train that plows into the Giant is powered by a steam locomotive that resembles both a New York Central "Dreyfuss" steam locomotive and a Norfolk & Western J Class steam locomotive. There were no steam locomotives operating mainline freight trains in Maine in 1957, especially not from those railroads, so its also [[JustTrainWrong Just Train Wrong]].However, it could be forgiven, because many railroads still used steam in 1957.


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* In Rankin/Bass' 1969 special "WesternAnimation/FrostyTheSnowman, Frosty and Karen hop a freight train pulled by a steam locomotive. However, as the cars in this special also look pretty old-fashioned as well, as does the clothing of the characters, so it probably doesn't necessarily take place in 1969.
5th Dec '17 9:18:49 PM danlansdowne
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* The UK kept building new steam locomotives well into the 1960s while most of Europe was going over to diesel or electric locomotives, mostly out of economic necessity. Oil had to be expensively shipped in from overseas, and overhead electrification required a huge up-front investment that was completely off the table in the early days of [[UsefulNotes/NationalRail British Rail]]; what hadn't been wrecked by German bombs had been run ragged supporting the war effort. But what Britain ''did'' have was plenty of coal.

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* The UK kept building new steam locomotives well into the 1960s while most of Europe was going over to diesel or electric locomotives, mostly out of economic necessity. Oil had to be expensively shipped in from overseas, and overhead electrification required a huge up-front investment that was completely off the table in the early days of [[UsefulNotes/NationalRail British Rail]]; what hadn't been wrecked by German bombs had been run ragged supporting the war effort. But what Britain ''did'' have was plenty of coal. Some initial plans projected that steam would last into the 1980s.



* The idea of reintroducing steam locomotives, built to modern standards using modern technology, is occasionally talked about as a solution to steadily increasing oil prices. However, most people proposing these reintroductions forget or neglect to take into account that no matter how efficient ''the engine itself is,'' steam-powered engines require twice the amount of infrastructure - they have to be supplied with water ''and'' fuel. The supposed cost-effectiveness is negated, especially in arid regions where water is in very short supply. Electrification is generally agreed upon to be the better solution.

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* The idea of reintroducing steam locomotives, built to modern standards using modern technology, is occasionally talked about as a solution to steadily increasing oil prices. However, most people proposing these reintroductions forget or neglect to take into account that no matter how efficient ''the engine itself is,'' is'', steam-powered engines require twice the amount of infrastructure - they have to be supplied with water ''and'' fuel. The supposed cost-effectiveness is negated, especially in arid regions where water is in very short supply. Electrification is generally agreed upon to be the better solution.
5th Dec '17 9:15:30 PM danlansdowne
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*** North American rail passenger operators had similar Schizo Tech issues with steam heated coaches. As national systems, Amtrak and [=VIA=] Rail inherited their passenger car fleets from a wide variety of freight roads who each had their own ideas on how to heat and cool their coaches. Some were still using steam even in 1971! They had generally weeded these units out by the mid to late [[TheSeventies 1970's]] in favor of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-end_power Head End Power]].

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*** North American rail passenger operators had similar Schizo Tech issues with steam heated coaches. As national systems, Amtrak and [=VIA=] Rail inherited their passenger car fleets from a wide variety of freight roads who each had their own ideas on how to heat and cool their coaches. Some were still using steam even in 1971! They had generally weeded these units out by the mid to late [[TheSeventies 1970's]] in favor of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-end_power Head End Power]]. Steam heat lasted until the 1990s on VIA Rail.
24th Nov '17 10:07:14 AM nombretomado
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** There is another aspect: While coal is indeed more plentiful than liquid fuels and coal ''cannot'' be used for internal propulsion engines (Rudolf Diesel initially intended his engine for coal dust - neither he nor any of his successors could get it to work), however, Coal can be converted into liquid fuel via the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process Fischer Tropsch process]] which has been known since the 1920s. While its energy efficiency is ''atrocious'', it is still more than made up for by the better fuel efficiency of internal combustion compared to steam. Indeed, many countries that for one reason or another had no access to oil used exactly this process, be it Apartheid South Africa, NazisWithGnarlyWeapons or EastGermany, though the latter also kept using steam engines almost until the very end.

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** There is another aspect: While coal is indeed more plentiful than liquid fuels and coal ''cannot'' be used for internal propulsion engines (Rudolf Diesel initially intended his engine for coal dust - neither he nor any of his successors could get it to work), however, Coal can be converted into liquid fuel via the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process Fischer Tropsch process]] which has been known since the 1920s. While its energy efficiency is ''atrocious'', it is still more than made up for by the better fuel efficiency of internal combustion compared to steam. Indeed, many countries that for one reason or another had no access to oil used exactly this process, be it Apartheid South Africa, NazisWithGnarlyWeapons or EastGermany, UsefulNotes/EastGermany, though the latter also kept using steam engines almost until the very end.
22nd Nov '17 9:39:47 PM nombretomado
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Not to be confused with SteamPunk, though some of the artistic sentiment may overlap. Compare ExcessiveSteamSyndrome. Also [[IThoughtItMeant has nothing to do]] with the DigitalDistribution [[UsefulNotes/{{Steam}} service]].

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Not to be confused with SteamPunk, though some of the artistic sentiment may overlap. Compare ExcessiveSteamSyndrome. Also [[IThoughtItMeant has nothing to do]] with the DigitalDistribution UsefulNotes/DigitalDistribution [[UsefulNotes/{{Steam}} service]].
22nd Nov '17 1:40:46 PM Jhonny
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* In ''Film/{{Octopussy}}'', Octopussy's circus train is pulled by a steam locomotive. This is presumably a deliberate choice to play up the romance of the circus, as the Bond film's usually feature modern trains.

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* In ''Film/{{Octopussy}}'', Octopussy's circus train is pulled by a steam locomotive. This is presumably a deliberate choice to play up the romance of the circus, as the Bond film's films usually feature modern trains.trains current to the era and place in which the film is set.
21st Nov '17 7:39:44 PM foxley
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Added DiffLines:

* In ''Film/{{Octopussy}}'', Octopussy's circus train is pulled by a steam locomotive. This is presumably a deliberate choice to play up the romance of the circus, as the Bond film's usually feature modern trains.
8th Oct '17 7:38:55 AM johnsmithxxi
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* The trope is present in ''WesternAnimation/DuckTales''. The most incongruous example was in the episode ''Armstrong'', where Gyro's newly invented robot saves Scrooge's gold train (pulled by a steam locomotive) from a rockslide. The episode later features such modern technology as automatic garage door openers, computers and satellites!

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* The trope is present in ''WesternAnimation/DuckTales''.''WesternAnimation/DuckTales1987''. The most incongruous example was in the episode ''Armstrong'', where Gyro's newly invented robot saves Scrooge's gold train (pulled by a steam locomotive) from a rockslide. The episode later features such modern technology as automatic garage door openers, computers and satellites!
21st Aug '17 6:11:10 AM airminer
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** The [[UsefulNotes/{{Hungary}} Hungarian State Railways]] [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%81V_Class_424 424 class]] served from 1924 until all steam engines were retired in 1984. Their [[BoringButPractical sheer simplicity]] kept them around long after other steamers had become too expensive to keep around.

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** The [[UsefulNotes/{{Hungary}} Hungarian State Railways]] [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%81V_Class_424 org/wiki/MAV_Class_424 424 class]] served from 1924 until all steam engines were retired in 1984. Their [[BoringButPractical sheer simplicity]] kept them around long after other steamers had become too expensive to keep around.
23rd Jul '17 3:18:07 PM john_e
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** It was well into the turn of the millennium before the last 1950s-era British Rail Mk1 coaches and the diesel and electric multiple units based on them were finally put out to pasture. Many of these coaches were originally built with heating systems designed to draw on steam from the locomotive's boiler, which resulted in the decidedly SchizoTech practice of building steam boilers into diesel locomotives to heat the coaches in winter, and it wasn't until well into the 1970s that the last of the passenger locomotive stock was converted to electric heating. It might well have been even later were it not for the [[TheAllegedCar Alleged Boilers]] - all the different designs, made by different manufacturers, were all equally unreliable, and accounted for more failures than all the other parts of the locomotives put together (and some of ''them'' were pretty bad). Some steam heat locomotives (reassigned to freight duties), and coaching stock with dual heating (steam and electric), remained in service for another decade or more.

to:

** It was well into the turn of the millennium before the last 1950s-era British Rail Mk1 coaches and the diesel and electric multiple units based on them were finally put out to pasture. Many of these coaches were originally built with heating systems designed to draw on steam from the locomotive's boiler, which resulted in the decidedly SchizoTech practice of building steam boilers into diesel locomotives to heat the coaches in winter, and it wasn't until well into the 1970s that the last of the passenger locomotive stock was converted to electric heating. It might well have been even later were it not for the [[TheAllegedCar Alleged Boilers]] - all the different designs, made by different manufacturers, were all equally unreliable, and accounted for more failures than all the other parts of the locomotives put together (and some of ''them'' were [[ObviousBeta pretty bad).bad]]). Some steam heat locomotives (reassigned to freight duties), and coaching stock with dual heating (steam and electric), remained in service for another decade or more.
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