History Main / StateSec

11th Jan '17 6:04:23 AM LordKaarvani
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* Vichy France had the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_d%27ordre_l%C3%A9gionnaire Service d'Ordre Légionnaire]] (''Legionary Order Service'') which later had an offshoot which became it's successor, the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milice Milice Française]] (''French Militia'') after the occupation of the free zone by the Nazis. The SOL was mostly focused on upholding Pétain's cult of personality and promote collaboration with Germany and fight against the French Résistance and Allied forces, but turned out to be quite subpar at the latter point. The Milice (who ended up becoming the official police force of Vichy) was both more efficient and scary than the SOL due to their rounding of French Jews, devotion to Pétain and the fact that most of it's member were local common folks and petty criminals (which knew local geography, dialects and personalities, allowing them to strike easily at the Résistance) ; it was later disavowed by Pétain out of fear that he would be held accountable from their actions if the Allies liberated France.
11th Dec '16 2:18:08 PM Morgenthaler
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* ''ComicBook/Block109'': There are actually two opposing ones within Alt-history Nazi Germany. The SS became Heydrich's personal organization after Himmler became Fuehrer (Hitler was assassinated and everyone else in the line of succession was killed in the purge that followed), but Himmler also created the Teutonic Order as a rival organization led by an unknown officer named Zytek so that neither Heydrich or Zytek could become too powerful and depose him. This backfired when Himmler was assassinated anyway and the Reich council promoted Zytek.

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* ''ComicBook/Block109'': There are actually two opposing ones within Alt-history AlternateHistory Nazi Germany. The SS became Heydrich's personal organization after Himmler became Fuehrer (Hitler was assassinated and everyone else in the line of succession was killed in the purge that followed), but Himmler also created the Teutonic Order as a rival organization led by an unknown officer named Zytek so that neither Heydrich or Zytek could become too powerful and depose him. This backfired when Himmler was assassinated anyway and the Reich council promoted Zytek.
11th Dec '16 5:15:04 AM ManchuCandidate
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** We find out in ''ComicBook/StarWarsPoeDameron'' that the Imperial successor state, the First Order, has a successor agency to the ISB called the First Order Security Bureau.
28th Oct '16 4:35:19 PM Morgenthaler
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* ''ComicBook/Block109'': There are actually two opposing ones within Alt-history Nazi Germany. The SS became Heydrich's personal organization after Himmler became Fuehrer, but Himmler also created the Teutonic Order as a rival organization led by an unknown officer named Zytek so that neither could become too powerful and depose him. This backfired when Himmler was assassinated anyway and replaced by Zytek.

to:

* ''ComicBook/Block109'': There are actually two opposing ones within Alt-history Nazi Germany. The SS became Heydrich's personal organization after Himmler became Fuehrer, Fuehrer (Hitler was assassinated and everyone else in the line of succession was killed in the purge that followed), but Himmler also created the Teutonic Order as a rival organization led by an unknown officer named Zytek so that neither Heydrich or Zytek could become too powerful and depose him. This backfired when Himmler was assassinated anyway and replaced by the Reich council promoted Zytek.
28th Oct '16 4:32:38 PM Morgenthaler
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* ''ComicBook/Block109'': There are actually two opposing ones within Alt-history Nazi Germany. The SS became Heydrich's personal organization after Himmler became Fuehrer, but Himmler also created the Teutonic Order led by an unknown officer named Zytek as a rival organization so that neither could become too powerful. This backfired when Himmler was assassinated anyway and replaced by Zytek.

to:

* ''ComicBook/Block109'': There are actually two opposing ones within Alt-history Nazi Germany. The SS became Heydrich's personal organization after Himmler became Fuehrer, but Himmler also created the Teutonic Order as a rival organization led by an unknown officer named Zytek as a rival organization so that neither could become too powerful.powerful and depose him. This backfired when Himmler was assassinated anyway and replaced by Zytek.
22nd Oct '16 4:35:13 AM Morgenthaler
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* One of the scarier early examples of the trope was the Oprichnina of Ivan the Terrible. It was a semi-monastic fraternal order that was created to terrorize and depower the Boyar nobles who schemed against the Tsar. Its operatives wore black robes, rode horses with symbolic brooms and dog heads attached to saddles, and were formed into paramilitary terror squads that wiped out both manor homes and peasant villages. Aside from these operatives, the Oprichnina also owned vast tracts of land, had merchants working to finance it, and generally was a state within a state. By the end of the Oprichnina, Ivan's enemies were gone, but so was a large chunk of Russia's population. Some people think that the Oprichniks were the source of inspiration for Stalin's NKVD (Ivan the Terrible was [[JosefStalin Uncle Joe's]] favorite historical character).

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* One of the scarier early examples of the trope was the Oprichnina of Ivan the Terrible. It was a semi-monastic fraternal order that was created to terrorize and depower the Boyar nobles who schemed against the Tsar. Its operatives wore black robes, rode horses with symbolic brooms and dog heads attached to saddles, and were formed into paramilitary terror squads that wiped out both manor homes and peasant villages. Aside from these operatives, the Oprichnina also owned vast tracts of land, had merchants working to finance it, and generally was a state within a state. By the end of the Oprichnina, Ivan's enemies were gone, but so was a large chunk of Russia's population. Some people think that the Oprichniks were the source of inspiration for Stalin's NKVD (Ivan the Terrible was [[JosefStalin [[UsefulNotes/JosefStalin Uncle Joe's]] favorite historical character).
13th Oct '16 4:41:43 PM nombretomado
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* During the ColdWar, a Russian man is staying at a hotel when his neighbors come in and start socializing loudly. He gets an idea, calls room service and asks them to bring tea to the neighbors' room, then goes to meet them. Four minutes later, he grabs the ashtray, puts it close to his mouth, and says "Comrade major, could we have some tea please?". The tea arrives and the neighbors are now completely silent, even after the man leaves and goes to sleep. In the morning, he wakes up and sees that his neighbors are gone, and asks about them at the reception. The receptionist says that they were taken away by the secret police in the night, and when the man asks why he wasn't taken, she tells him "The thing with the ashtray? Comrade major thought it was funny".

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* During the ColdWar, UsefulNotes/ColdWar, a Russian man is staying at a hotel when his neighbors come in and start socializing loudly. He gets an idea, calls room service and asks them to bring tea to the neighbors' room, then goes to meet them. Four minutes later, he grabs the ashtray, puts it close to his mouth, and says "Comrade major, could we have some tea please?". The tea arrives and the neighbors are now completely silent, even after the man leaves and goes to sleep. In the morning, he wakes up and sees that his neighbors are gone, and asks about them at the reception. The receptionist says that they were taken away by the secret police in the night, and when the man asks why he wasn't taken, she tells him "The thing with the ashtray? Comrade major thought it was funny".
20th Sep '16 8:47:44 AM Morgenthaler
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* A strange case would be the various incarnations of the secret police [[UsefulNotes/TheSoundOfMartialMusic under the Austrian Habsburgs]], at least in their later days. Tracing their origins to Prince Metternich, the StateSec provided an unnervingly amiable (and deceptively incompetent) face, preferring to pull strings or subtly ease potential malcontents out of relevance rather than making them "disappear." Of course, this doesn't include an intricate spy network that not only stretched across the Empire but even beyond. Or the fact that it's helped Austria-Hungary to a degree shape their society as they see fit. Even as their actual competence decayed, the fact that elements of that system survived into the 1920s (after the end of WorldWarI destroyed the monarchy)says a lot.

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* A strange case would be the various incarnations of the secret police [[UsefulNotes/TheSoundOfMartialMusic under the Austrian Habsburgs]], at least in their later days. Tracing their origins to Prince Metternich, the StateSec provided an unnervingly amiable (and deceptively incompetent) face, preferring to pull strings or subtly ease potential malcontents out of relevance rather than making them "disappear." Of course, this doesn't include an intricate spy network that not only stretched across the Empire but even beyond. Or the fact that it's helped Austria-Hungary to a degree shape their society as they see fit. Even as their actual competence decayed, the fact that elements of that system survived into the 1920s (after the end of WorldWarI UsefulNotes/WorldWarI destroyed the monarchy)says a lot.
7th Sep '16 1:18:53 AM Morgenthaler
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* When Germany was split after the war, East Germany got [[TheStasi the Stasi]] (''[=Ministerium für STAatsSIcherheit=]'' = Ministry for State Security), practically a literal German translation of this trope's name, although the derivation runs the other way. They were able to field far more agents than the Gestapo ever could, (at their height, the Stasi had one agent for every 166 citizens, while the best the Gestapo could field was one agent for every 2000 citizens). An old saying in Germany goes, "The Gestapo were bone breakers. The Stasi were '''''soul''''' breakers." Alone that makes them just the SecretPolice (if particularly scary secret police), but what puts them into this trope is the Felix Dzerzhinsky Guards Regiment, a rather large paramilitary force (about 11,000 at its height) used to secure ultra-important government and Party facilities and generally terrorize the people when necessary.

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* When Germany was split after the war, East Germany got [[TheStasi [[UsefulNotes/TheStasi the Stasi]] (''[=Ministerium für STAatsSIcherheit=]'' = Ministry for State Security), practically a literal German translation of this trope's name, although the derivation runs the other way. They were able to field far more agents than the Gestapo ever could, (at their height, the Stasi had one agent for every 166 citizens, while the best the Gestapo could field was one agent for every 2000 citizens). An old saying in Germany goes, "The Gestapo were bone breakers. The Stasi were '''''soul''''' breakers." Alone that makes them just the SecretPolice (if particularly scary secret police), but what puts them into this trope is the Felix Dzerzhinsky Guards Regiment, a rather large paramilitary force (about 11,000 at its height) used to secure ultra-important government and Party facilities and generally terrorize the people when necessary.
3rd Sep '16 7:12:29 AM Morgenthaler
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* A strange case would be the various incarnations of the secret police [[TheSoundOfMartialMusic under the Austrian Habsburgs]], at least in their later days. Tracing their origins to Prince Metternich, the StateSec provided an unnervingly amiable (and deceptively incompetent) face, preferring to pull strings or subtly ease potential malcontents out of relevance rather than making them "disappear." Of course, this doesn't include an intricate spy network that not only stretched across the Empire but even beyond. Or the fact that it's helped Austria-Hungary to a degree shape their society as they see fit. Even as their actual competence decayed, the fact that elements of that system survived into the 1920s (after the end of WorldWarI destroyed the monarchy)says a lot.

to:

* A strange case would be the various incarnations of the secret police [[TheSoundOfMartialMusic [[UsefulNotes/TheSoundOfMartialMusic under the Austrian Habsburgs]], at least in their later days. Tracing their origins to Prince Metternich, the StateSec provided an unnervingly amiable (and deceptively incompetent) face, preferring to pull strings or subtly ease potential malcontents out of relevance rather than making them "disappear." Of course, this doesn't include an intricate spy network that not only stretched across the Empire but even beyond. Or the fact that it's helped Austria-Hungary to a degree shape their society as they see fit. Even as their actual competence decayed, the fact that elements of that system survived into the 1920s (after the end of WorldWarI destroyed the monarchy)says a lot.
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