History Main / StandardStarshipScuffle

24th Oct '16 9:40:18 PM nombretomado
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* In ''Series/{{Andromeda}}'', another GeneRoddenberry series, capital ships occasionally got close enough to one another to fire Anti-Proton guns at each other. But most of the time they lobbed relativistic missiles at blips on the tac screen several light-minutes away. And due to gravity manipulation most ships could maneuver like fighters anyway.

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* In ''Series/{{Andromeda}}'', another GeneRoddenberry Creator/GeneRoddenberry series, capital ships occasionally got close enough to one another to fire Anti-Proton guns at each other. But most of the time they lobbed relativistic missiles at blips on the tac screen several light-minutes away. And due to gravity manipulation most ships could maneuver like fighters anyway.
27th Sep '16 9:30:47 PM PaulA
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* Way, way, way [[AvertedTrope averted]] in the ''Literature/AllianceUnion'' novels. Combat takes place at such distances - and sufficient fractions of ''c'' - that space combat is described as being displayed as an intersecting mesh of tri-D cones predicting where the ships you can see might actually be now, and more importantly might actually be by the time your missiles and [[KineticWeaponsAreJustBetter inert mass ammunition]] gets to them.
** It's explicitly stated in ''Hellburner'' that most of the skill of fractional c firefights is being able to predict what your opponent is likely to do - partly on interpreting the data in light of tactical objectives, partly based on knowing them by name and reputation.
** Even the titular Hellburners (properly called Riderships) avert the [[AirborneAircraftCarrier carrier]] [[StandardSciFiFleet equivalent]] [[RecycledInSpace in space]] as well - they are more like warships in their own right, with a command crew of 4, 30+ operational crew and capable of carrying a contingent of SpaceMarines. The only things they lack are the Carriers years-long supply stores and Jump Drives.
** The combat is also fairly well justified. Jump Drives only work if ships are far enough away from stars & planets not to be affected by gravity. Stations tend to orbit planets. Attacking and defending star systems becomes about crossing those distances and threatening to cut your enemy off from his line of retreat through a jump range.

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* Way, way, way [[AvertedTrope averted]] in the ''Literature/AllianceUnion'' novels. Combat takes place at such distances - and sufficient fractions of ''c'' - that space combat is described as being displayed as an intersecting mesh of tri-D cones predicting where the ships you can see might actually be now, and more importantly might actually be by the time your missiles and [[KineticWeaponsAreJustBetter inert mass ammunition]] gets to them.
**
them. It's explicitly stated in ''Hellburner'' ''Literature/{{Hellburner}}'' that most of the skill of fractional c firefights is being able to predict what your opponent is likely to do - partly on interpreting the data in light of tactical objectives, partly based on knowing them by name and reputation.
**
reputation. Even the titular Hellburners (properly called Riderships) avert the [[AirborneAircraftCarrier carrier]] [[StandardSciFiFleet equivalent]] [[RecycledInSpace in space]] as well - they are more like warships in their own right, with a command crew of 4, 30+ operational crew and capable of carrying a contingent of SpaceMarines. The only things they lack are the Carriers years-long supply stores and Jump Drives.
**
Drives. The combat is also fairly well justified. Jump Drives only work if ships are far enough away from stars & planets not to be affected by gravity. Stations tend to orbit planets. Attacking and defending star systems becomes about crossing those distances and threatening to cut your enemy off from his line of retreat through a jump range.
2nd Jun '16 8:03:52 PM PaulA
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* Lampshaded and averted by Creator/HarryHarrison in the final book of the ''To the Stars'' trilogy. The admiral in charge of the rebel colonists shows the protagonist an old space movie before pointing out how real space battles aren't anything like this -- spaceships don't fight at close range and energy weapons don't work in the [[ArbitraryMaximumRange vast distances of space]]. Although missiles are being used by both sides, the rebels use [[KineticWeaponsAreJustBetter linear accelerators firing unguided cannon balls]] to gain the decisive edge, then finish them off with a FlechetteStorm of rocket-propelled bullets -- all this happens before anyone is close enough to see their opponent.

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* Lampshaded and averted by Creator/HarryHarrison in the final book of the ''To the Stars'' trilogy.''Literature/{{Starworld}}''. The admiral in charge of the rebel colonists shows the protagonist an old space movie before pointing out how real space battles aren't anything like this -- spaceships don't fight at close range and energy weapons don't work in the [[ArbitraryMaximumRange vast distances of space]]. Although missiles are being used by both sides, the rebels use [[KineticWeaponsAreJustBetter linear accelerators firing unguided cannon balls]] to gain the decisive edge, then finish them off with a FlechetteStorm of rocket-propelled bullets -- all this happens before anyone is close enough to see their opponent.
26th May '16 8:56:03 AM FernFromChtio
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[[folder:{{ComicBook}}]]
* There are two space-brawls in ''ComicBook/{{Pouvoirpoint}}'': The first one is lived from inside the [[WaveMotionGun vibro-cannons room]] of ship ''Entreprise-2061'', during the ambush by a [[BlobMonster Proximian]] swarm from outer space. The second one is seen from outside the ship, when it gets attacked by a pestering [[SpaceFighter coastguard fighter]].
[[/folder]]
12th Mar '16 5:35:13 AM Morgenthaler
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->''Space battles are always [[ThisIsReality a lot more exciting on TV]] than they are in real life.''

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->''Space battles are always [[ThisIsReality a lot more exciting on TV]] TV than they are in real life.''
10th Mar '16 1:23:06 PM StClair
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** Computer-controlled Liir will try to swarm your ships and will try to surround-and-pound each of your ships, even if they are using dreadnoughts. If you were counting on a battle line, good luck.
** Early battles involving only destroyers do tend to look like your typical scuffle with ships passing one another while trading shots, especially since destroyers are unlikely to have missiles and tend to only have small turrets.

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** Computer-controlled Liir will try like to swarm your ships at close range and will try to surround-and-pound each of your ships, vessels, even if they are using dreadnoughts. If you were counting on a battle line, good luck.
** Early battles involving only destroyers do tend to look like your typical scuffle scuffle, with ships passing one another while trading shots, especially since destroyers are unlikely to have missiles and tend to only have small turrets.



* True to form, in ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' duels between starships armed with beam arrays tend to work out this way. The weapons have a 255-degree firing arc so being side-on to your target means you can hit with all your energy weapons at once. The Assault Cruiser Refit, or ''Regent''-class, even comes with a wide-angle quantum torpedo launcher (180 degrees instead of the usual 90) to facilitate this. Among ships armed with dual cannons (most escorts) or dual beams, it works out more like an OldSchoolDogfight, albeit one where the combatants also have tailguns (turrets on the rear mounts).

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* True to form, in ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' duels between starships armed with beam arrays tend to work out this way. The weapons Beam arrays have a 255-degree firing arc arc, so being side-on to your target means you can hit with all your energy weapons at once. The Assault Cruiser Refit, or ''Regent''-class, even comes with a wide-angle quantum torpedo launcher (180 degrees instead of the usual 90) to facilitate this. Among ships armed with dual cannons (most escorts) or dual beams, it works out more like an OldSchoolDogfight, albeit one where the combatants also have tailguns (turrets on the rear mounts).mounts); and some of these weapons have special versions that expand their firing arcs.



* Enforced and Justified in ''VideoGame/SinsOfASolarEmpire'', because battles takes place in planetary or stellar gravity wells-"Brown water" distances in terms of starships.

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* Enforced and Justified in ''VideoGame/SinsOfASolarEmpire'', because battles takes place in planetary or stellar gravity wells-"Brown wells-"brown water" distances in terms of starships.
13th Feb '16 10:16:25 AM zarpaulus
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* The ''Honor Harrington'' mobile game ''VideoGame/TalesOfHonorTheSecretFleet'' plays the trope even straighter than the novels. When ships battle they just sit there in parallel positions lobbing missiles at each other until one is destroyed. At most they might "roll" to use their impeller wedges at shields occasionally.
4th Feb '16 9:29:05 AM Cuddles
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** Of note is that the Honorverse was deliberately designed to hit this trope as hard as possible. The setting is explicitly modelled as the British Empire vs. Revolutionary/Napoleonic France RecycledInSpace, and the rules of physics are designed to force battles to take place in the same manner as in the age of sail. Impressively, this was done while still being truer to real world physics, especially relativity, than many other settings. Developments in both politics and technology served to move the setting away from these roots in later books.
16th Dec '15 10:48:31 AM Morgenthaler
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* Ground Zero Games's ''FullThrust'' plays this trope straight. Optional rules provide varying degrees of aversion.

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* Ground Zero Games's ''FullThrust'' ''TabletopGame/FullThrust'' plays this trope straight. Optional rules provide varying degrees of aversion.



* ''{{Starcraft}}'' features this trope both in-game, and in an animation that plays on one of the menu buttons.
* ''GratuitousSpaceBattles'' was explicitly designed to provide a pure fix of StandardStarshipScuffle visuals. The player designs a fleet of fighters, frigates and gargantuan battleships then pits them against another fleet in a firestorm of technicolour glory. If you want to see DeflectorShields shimmering under the onslaught of BeamSpam while {{Tractor Beam}}s struggle to pin elusive microfighters, this is the game for you.

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* ''{{Starcraft}}'' ''VideoGame/{{Starcraft}}'' features this trope both in-game, and in an animation that plays on one of the menu buttons.
* ''GratuitousSpaceBattles'' ''VideoGame/GratuitousSpaceBattles'' was explicitly designed to provide a pure fix of StandardStarshipScuffle visuals. The player designs a fleet of fighters, frigates and gargantuan battleships then pits them against another fleet in a firestorm of technicolour glory. If you want to see DeflectorShields shimmering under the onslaught of BeamSpam while {{Tractor Beam}}s struggle to pin elusive microfighters, this is the game for you.
7th Dec '15 10:57:17 AM MadCat221
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** In the episode [[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS5E14Conundrum "Conundrum"]], the ''Enterprise''-D hints at an aversion of the franchise's usual PointDefenseless battles, while simultaneously demonstrating why there aren't many fighters to be found in ''Franchise/StarTrek'' when ''Enterprise'' destroys a half-dozen in under two seconds in a casual, almost offhanded salvo of phaser fire. That episode might not be the best example, since the fighters they destroy are stated to be technologically inferior to the Federation, but the Borg also swat Federation fighters aside just as easily as they approach Earth, and it's shown that, generally speaking, the relatively-tiny Maquis ships are helpless against Federation and Cardassian capital ships and only good for raiding transports.

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** In the episode [[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS5E14Conundrum "Conundrum"]], the ''Enterprise''-D hints at an aversion of the franchise's usual PointDefenseless battles, while simultaneously demonstrating why there aren't many fighters to be found in ''Franchise/StarTrek'' when ''Enterprise'' destroys a half-dozen in under two seconds in a casual, almost offhanded salvo of phaser fire. That episode might not be the best example, since the fighters they destroy are stated to be technologically inferior to the Federation, but the Borg also swat Federation fighters aside just as easily as they approach Earth, and it's shown that, generally speaking, the relatively-tiny Maquis ships are helpless against Federation and Cardassian capital ships and only good for raiding transports. Capital-grade weaponry is both powerful enough that only another capital ship or fortified installation has the defensive power to weather the hit, and accurate enough that evasive maneuvers aren't reliable enough to avoid being hit.
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