History Main / SomeDexterityRequired

25th Nov '16 9:52:17 PM Midna
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Finally, there is a case, where the controls are neither complex nor unergonomic, but they put more stress on timing. This is usually seen in the games aiming to portray action more realistically, taking into account such things as the time required to actually deliver an attack or proper synchronization of gears to avoid stalling.

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Finally, there is a case, case where the controls are neither complex nor unergonomic, but they put more stress on timing. This is usually seen in the games aiming to portray action more realistically, taking into account such things as the time required to actually deliver an attack or proper synchronization of gears to avoid stalling.



* Games in the DarkSouls series take a considerable amount of getting used to - attacks in it are quite slow (and vary in speed and striking style depending on weapon, and whether you're wielding the weapon one-handed or two-handed), there's a sort of strike-and-block dynamic to it, you have a shield you may or may not be using, and the enemies are quite unforgiving. The game has a pretty steep learning curve at first, but eventually the awkward controls make an increasing amount of sense. The relatively slow speed of strikes is a big part of what makes the game difficult, as is the fact that blocking isn't always safe and you can run out of strength, but eventually it gets pretty smooth for the player. Also, very few people would argue that the jumping controls in any of the games are not unintuitive at best, atrocious at worst (the first game was arguably the worst as they actually prevented you from dodge-rolling while running, since attempting to do so was how you jumped).
* The SNES and Sega Genesis ports of ''[[VideoGame/MortalKombat3 Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3]]'' introduced a finishing move known as a Brutality (which would carry over to ''Mortal Kombat Trilogy''). To pull one off, you had to memorize a long string of well-timed attacks (all starting with High Punch) and if you were successful, the combo would continue on its own and end in an exploding uppercut. And each character had a unique attack sequence.

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* Games in the DarkSouls ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'' series take a considerable amount of getting used to - attacks in it are quite slow (and vary in speed and striking style depending on weapon, and whether you're wielding the weapon one-handed or two-handed), there's a sort of strike-and-block dynamic to it, you have a shield you may or may not be using, and the enemies are quite unforgiving. The game has a pretty steep learning curve at first, but eventually the awkward controls make an increasing amount of sense. The relatively slow speed of strikes is a big part of what makes the game difficult, as is the fact that blocking isn't always safe and you can run out of strength, but eventually it gets pretty smooth for the player. Also, very few people would argue that the jumping controls in any of the games are not unintuitive at best, atrocious at worst (the first game was arguably the worst as they actually prevented you from dodge-rolling while running, since attempting to do so was how you jumped).
* The SNES and Sega Genesis ports of ''[[VideoGame/MortalKombat3 Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3]]'' introduced a finishing move known as a Brutality (which would carry over to ''Mortal Kombat Trilogy''). To pull one off, you had have to memorize a long string of well-timed attacks (all starting with High Punch) and if you were you're successful, the combo would will continue on its own and end in an exploding uppercut. And each character had has a unique attack sequence.



** Many players of the original [=PS2=] version found then "swing the remote" method on executing combo attacks on the Wii remake to be awkward, partly because of DamnYouMuscleMemory, but mainly because the timing of the swing for many combos had to be ''exact'', rather than just hitting a button the required number of times (to clarify - a heartbeat's pause must be left between swings, or the game will interpret your many swings as one). Glaives and Reflectors have had their effectiveness called into question since, no matter how powerful the weapon, the unpredictability of their combo attacks made them less useful than the Rosary weapons, which were more forgiving and therefore more reliable. One the other hand, if you ''can'' work it out then it can feel quite satisfying.

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** Many players of the original [=PS2=] version found then the "swing the remote" method on executing combo attacks on the Wii remake to be awkward, partly because of DamnYouMuscleMemory, but mainly because the timing of the swing for many combos had has to be ''exact'', rather than just hitting a button the required number of times (to clarify - a heartbeat's pause must be left between swings, or the game will interpret your many swings as one). Glaives and Reflectors have had their effectiveness called into question since, no matter how powerful the weapon, the unpredictability of their combo attacks made makes them less useful than the Rosary weapons, which were are more forgiving and therefore more reliable. One the other hand, if you ''can'' work it out then it can feel quite satisfying.



* The "press", "tap", and ''especially'' "scratch" controls in Nintendo DS game ''VideoGame/TheWorldEndsWithYou''. And while we're on the subject, some advice: ''never'' have "tap rapidly" pins in the same deck as "touch" pins. '''''Ever'''''[[note]]Don't even use subslots. Merely having a "tap rapidly" pin in your deck means that if you tap enough that the game considers it "rapidly", it ''stops activating "touch" pins''.[[/note]].
** And you have to do all those crazy touch screen motions while simultaneously commanding your partner on the upper screen through combo-based button presses. Those are easier to pull off, but doing it while keeping track of Neku's (asymmetrical) battle on the bottom screen can be quite the feat.

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* The "press", "tap", and ''especially'' "scratch" controls in Nintendo DS game ''VideoGame/TheWorldEndsWithYou''. And while we're on the subject, some advice: ''never'' have "tap rapidly" pins in the same deck as "touch" pins. '''''Ever'''''[[note]]Don't even use subslots. Merely having a "tap rapidly" pin in your deck means that if you tap enough that the game considers it "rapidly", it ''stops activating "touch" pins''.[[/note]].
**
[[/note]]. And you have to do all those crazy touch screen motions while simultaneously commanding your partner on the upper screen through combo-based button presses. Those are easier to pull off, but doing it while keeping track of Neku's (asymmetrical) battle on the bottom screen can be quite the feat.



* ''VideoGame/RedSteel'' for the Wii had poorly polished controls, controller latency, and no clear way to distinguish where your own hitboxes are.
* Every [=PS2=] ''Anime/MobileSuitGundam'' game.
** With the possible exception of the ''VideoGame/GundamVsSeries'', which uses a four-button control scheme but takes advantage of the [=PS2=] controller to assign buttons to the simultaneous-press commands (for example the Sub-Weapon command, which is Shoot and Melee combined, is mapped to R1 by default).
* Earlier ''VideoGame/ArmoredCore'' games were plagued by laggy and complicated controls. They were mostly polished down by the ''VideoGame/ArmoredCore 3'' series. [[DamnYouMuscleMemory And then frustratingly changed completely for the last few PS2.]] Interestingly, probably due to the different gameplay, Armored Core 4 onward was much more playable even while using the same, previously frustrating controls.
* This was hardly a major flaw for the ''Franchise/AceAttorney'' games, since use of the microphone was purely optional, but it's not unusual to hear someone screaming "Objection" into the DS in an accent/voice that is nothing like the one they normally use. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get a pitch that Mr. Wright will recognize.

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* ''VideoGame/RedSteel'' for the Wii had has poorly polished controls, controller latency, and no clear way to distinguish where your own hitboxes are.
* Every [=PS2=] ''Anime/MobileSuitGundam'' game.
** With
game with the possible exception of the ''VideoGame/GundamVsSeries'', which uses a four-button control scheme but takes advantage of the [=PS2=] controller to assign buttons to the simultaneous-press commands (for example the Sub-Weapon command, which is Shoot and Melee combined, is mapped to R1 by default).
* Earlier ''VideoGame/ArmoredCore'' games were are plagued by laggy and complicated controls. They were mostly polished down by the ''VideoGame/ArmoredCore 3'' series. [[DamnYouMuscleMemory And then frustratingly changed completely for the last few PS2.]] Interestingly, probably due to the different gameplay, Armored ''Armored Core 4 4'' onward was is much more playable even while using the same, previously frustrating controls.
* This was is hardly a major flaw for the ''Franchise/AceAttorney'' games, since use of the microphone was is purely optional, but it's not unusual to hear someone screaming "Objection" into the DS in an accent/voice that is nothing like the one they normally use. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get a pitch that Mr. Wright will recognize.



* For most of the game, ''VideoGame/{{Sonic Rush|Series}}'''s controls were a treat, but right at the penultimate boss fight, when you're one hit short of victory, the game abruptly degenerates into an insane dual button-tapping fest that can't possibly lie within the dexterous abilities of the target audience.
* {{SNK}} is the mother and father of all impossible FightingGame motions. Back in the days of ''VideoGame/FatalFury'' and ''VideoGame/TheKingOfFighters '94'', characters always had impossible controller motions for their [[LimitBreak Super Moves]] - the crowned king of which was Geese Howard's Raging Storm, executed as follows: Down-Back, Half-Circle Back, Down-Forward + Punch. They call it [[FanNickname The Pretzel]] for a reason. In addition, super moves were activated by hitting ''two'' attack buttons, which is reasonable in an arcade but ludicrous at home. As of later KOF installments, SNK has gotten much better at this (by KOF '96, most characters have less insane motions for their attacks), but it lapses sometimes - try using Duck King in KOF XI. (Geese Howard's Raging Storm has ''never'' changed its motion, primarily due to nostalgia.)
** Adding to this is the modern method of performing his Deadly Rave DM. Especially when it can only be used once per round in ''VideoGame/SVCChaosSNKVsCapcom''. The input needed to pull off the move in that game is the following: Roll the stick from forward to downward to back, bring it forward and hit buttons B, C, and D at the same time, wait for Geese to start performing the move, then timing each of the following button presses just as Geese does each attack in the sequence: A, A, B, B, C, C, D, D, and then roll the stick from down to backward and hit C and D at the same time to get a big blast of energy. And no, you can't just mash the "A, A, B, B..." part, because performing it too slowly ''or'' too quickly will ruin the move. Oh, and if you screw up at any point after the first B + C + D attack (assuming you don't get attacked or fail to pull off the move in the first place), the move does extremely little damage. Even if you only fail the "QCB + C + D" part at the end. And in the case of ''[=SVC=] Chaos'', if you begin executing this move and fail it, even if it's because your opponent attacked you and ended the move prematurely, you ''don't get to use it for the rest of the round.'' At least other ''King of Fighters'' and ''Fatal Fury'' games are nice enough to let you use the move infinitely while a certain meter lasts, or at least grant you the ability to refill said meter. Some even have an easier variation of the move. It's still hard even without requiring a QCB + simultaneous button press at the end, though. If there's anything worthwhile about the move, however, it's that it does extremely high damage if pulled off correctly. Then again, a good number of other characters have moves of roughly equivalent power while not requiring such insane input. Or at least a better damage-to-move-difficulty ratio. This wasn't a problem in it first appearence in ''VideoGame/ArtOfFighting 2'' or KOF 98 Ultimate Match, where it was an automatic ranbu-type DM.
** Not as ludicrous as the Deadly Rave, but more complex than the Raging Storm, was Lawrence Blood's super move - Down-Forward, Half Circle Forward, Down-Back, Forward + Buttons. He's not as well known as Geese so his super usually gets overlooked in these discussions.
** ''VideoGame/SamuraiShodown 2'' had its share of difficult motions, most of them being for the [[SuperDeformed "Super Deformed Transformation"]] and certain secret special moves that only a few characters had. Of all those motions, Haohmaru's Ten'ha Fuujin Zan deserves special mention, being: Down-forward, half circle forward, back, down, down-back plus medium slash and weak kick buttons together.

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* For most of the game, ''VideoGame/{{Sonic Rush|Series}}'''s controls were are a treat, but right at the penultimate boss fight, when you're one hit short of victory, the game abruptly degenerates into an insane dual button-tapping fest that can't possibly lie within the dexterous abilities of the target audience.
* {{SNK}} is the mother and father of all impossible FightingGame motions. Back in the days of ''VideoGame/FatalFury'' and ''VideoGame/TheKingOfFighters '94'', characters always had impossible controller motions for their [[LimitBreak Super Moves]] - the crowned king of which was is Geese Howard's Raging Storm, executed as follows: Down-Back, Half-Circle Back, Down-Forward + Punch. They call it [[FanNickname The Pretzel]] for a reason. In addition, super moves were are activated by hitting ''two'' attack buttons, which is reasonable in an arcade but ludicrous at home. As of later KOF installments, SNK has gotten much better at this (by KOF '96, most characters have less insane motions for their attacks), but it lapses sometimes - try using Duck King in KOF XI. (Geese Howard's Raging Storm has ''never'' changed its motion, primarily due to nostalgia.)
** Adding to this is the modern method of performing his Deadly Rave DM. Especially when it can only be used once per round in ''VideoGame/SVCChaosSNKVsCapcom''. The input needed to pull off the move in that game is the following: Roll the stick from forward to downward to back, bring it forward and hit buttons B, C, and D at the same time, wait for Geese to start performing the move, then timing each of the following button presses just as Geese does each attack in the sequence: A, A, B, B, C, C, D, D, and then roll the stick from down to backward and hit C and D at the same time to get a big blast of energy. And no, you can't just mash the "A, A, B, B..." part, because performing it too slowly ''or'' too quickly will ruin the move. Oh, and if you screw up at any point after the first B + C + D attack (assuming you don't get attacked or fail to pull off the move in the first place), the move does extremely little damage. Even if you only fail the "QCB + C + D" part at the end. And in the case of ''[=SVC=] Chaos'', if you begin executing this move and fail it, even if it's because your opponent attacked you and ended the move prematurely, you ''don't get to use it for the rest of the round.'' At least other ''King of Fighters'' and ''Fatal Fury'' games are nice enough to let you use the move infinitely while a certain meter lasts, or at least grant you the ability to refill said meter. Some even have an easier variation of the move. It's still hard even without requiring a QCB + simultaneous button press at the end, though. If there's anything worthwhile about the move, however, it's that it does extremely high damage if pulled off correctly. Then again, a good number of other characters have moves of roughly equivalent power while not requiring such insane input. Or at least a better damage-to-move-difficulty ratio. This wasn't a problem in it first appearence in ''VideoGame/ArtOfFighting 2'' or KOF 98 Ultimate Match, where it was it's an automatic ranbu-type DM.
** Not as ludicrous as the Deadly Rave, but more complex than the Raging Storm, was is Lawrence Blood's super move - Down-Forward, Half Circle Forward, Down-Back, Forward + Buttons. He's not as well known as Geese so his super usually gets overlooked in these discussions.
** ''VideoGame/SamuraiShodown 2'' had has its share of difficult motions, most of them being for the [[SuperDeformed "Super Deformed Transformation"]] and certain secret special moves that only a few characters had.have. Of all those motions, Haohmaru's Ten'ha Fuujin Zan deserves special mention, being: Down-forward, half circle forward, back, down, down-back plus medium slash and weak kick buttons together.



* Also about SNK, a completely different example is ''VideoGame/BurikiOne'', which all the commands were changed upside down: the buttons are for movement (forward and back) and the joystick is for attack and defense moves. Also, pressing both direction buttons make you block/guard.

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* Also about SNK, a completely different example is In ''VideoGame/BurikiOne'', which all the commands were changed upside down: the buttons are for movement (forward and back) and the joystick is for attack and defense moves. Also, pressing both direction buttons make you block/guard.



* The cheat code system in the Nintendo 64 titles of the Rush racing game series tended to have complicated inputs based around quick combinations of holding down and tapping the four C buttons. This was tricky but merely inconvenient in ''San Francisco Rush'', where the most you could do with it was repeat it to change the tire size and body height of your car. ''Rush 2049'', however, involved combinations for every unlock under the sun, some of them fiendishly difficult and which had to be input fast, but not so fast that the game couldn't recognize it. Unlocking all the car bodies-not the cars and parts, just the bodies-involved hammering out a C-button combo that took more than 12 presses and more than a few tries to nail down.
* ''VideoGame/DieByTheSword'' had an amazingly simple control scheme that allowed one to perform complex sword movements using your mouse. Except... most people could never get the hang of the mechanics of it and either relied on the "constantly swipe left and right" attack, or used one of the preloaded macro commands.

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* The cheat code system in the Nintendo 64 titles of the Rush ''Rush'' racing game series tended tend to have complicated inputs based around quick combinations of holding down and tapping the four C buttons. This was is tricky but merely inconvenient in ''San Francisco Rush'', where the most you could can do with it was is repeat it to change the tire size and body height of your car. ''Rush 2049'', however, involved involves combinations for every unlock under the sun, some of them fiendishly difficult and which had have to be input fast, but not so fast that the game couldn't can't recognize it. Unlocking all the car bodies-not bodies--not the cars and parts, just the bodies-involved bodies--involves hammering out a C-button combo that took takes more than 12 presses and more than a few tries to nail down.
* ''VideoGame/DieByTheSword'' had has an amazingly simple control scheme that allowed allows one to perform complex sword movements using your mouse. Except... most people could never who have played it couldn't get the hang of the mechanics of it and either relied rely on the "constantly swipe left and right" attack, or used use one of the preloaded macro commands.



** ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaPhantomHourglass'' states that in order to do a roll, you need to draw a circle near the edge of the screen. Most players were rarely able to pull this off, and discovered that merely doing a quick stroke towards you and then back away would do the roll quite well.

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** ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaPhantomHourglass'' states that in order to do a roll, you need to draw a circle near the edge of the screen. Most players were rarely able to pull this off, and discovered that merely doing a quick stroke towards you and then back away would will do the roll quite well.



*** Trying to control Zelda and Link when they're particularly close to one another (as in the fight with [[spoiler: Malladus and Cole]], where they kind of have to be close to shield one and protect the other) is a pain in the neck, all too easy to switch control or attack by mistake if you're too hasty. Loved the stylus-only controls otherwise, but parts like that made it far trickier than it perhaps could have been were there alternative controls.

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*** Trying to control Zelda and Link when they're particularly close to one another (as in the fight with [[spoiler: Malladus and Cole]], where they kind of have to be close to shield one and protect the other) is a pain in the neck, all too easy to switch control or attack by mistake if you're too hasty. Loved the stylus-only controls otherwise, but parts like that made it far trickier than it perhaps could have been were there alternative controls.



* ''VideoGame/JetForceGemini'' included a highly intrincated control scheme that takes a while to get used to. Push the stick to move around, Z to shoot, C-Left and C-Right make you strafe, C-Up and C-Down to cycle weapons, A for jump and B for crouch. Did you get all that? OK, now there's the matter of shooting something flying over your horizontal line of sight, so forget EVERYTHING mentioned for the next 5 seconds. Hold R to enter a precision over-the-shoulder mode, aim and turn around with the stick, move and strafe with all 4 C buttons, and switch weapons with A and B. Yeah that's the perfect control scheme.

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* ''VideoGame/JetForceGemini'' included includes a highly intrincated intricate control scheme that takes a while to get used to. Push the stick to move around, Z to shoot, C-Left and C-Right make you strafe, C-Up and C-Down to cycle weapons, A for jump and B for crouch. Did you get all that? OK, now there's the matter of shooting something flying over your horizontal line of sight, so forget EVERYTHING mentioned for the next 5 seconds. Hold R to enter a precision over-the-shoulder mode, aim and turn around with the stick, move and strafe with all 4 C buttons, and switch weapons with A and B. Yeah that's the perfect control scheme.



* ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid3SnakeEater'' had this so much. Every button on the joypad seemed to be pressure sensitive in some way or another and pressing too hard was the difference between grabbing an enemy and slashing his throat. Not to mention holding down this button for first person, this to pull out the gun, then this one to lean/tiptoe into view, then if want to force him to surrender his supplies you had to go out of first-person to circle around him, then back into first person to threaten him and then a slow release of the button to then perform a close quarters takedown[[note]]assuming you're not using a tranquilizer gun, at which point just shoot him in the face and be done with it[[/note]]. Not to mention that some enemies need you to hold them up with something bigger than your pistols, meaning pressing the weapon button too hard (which must be held throughout this ritual) will result in you just blasting the enemy in the face, and pressing it too lightly will result in you lowering your weapon, at which point the guy you're trying to hold up will instantly attack you.

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* ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid3SnakeEater'' had has this so much. Every button on the joypad seemed seems to be pressure sensitive in some way or another and pressing too hard was is the difference between grabbing an enemy and slashing his throat. Not to mention holding down this button for first person, this to pull out the gun, then this one to lean/tiptoe into view, then if you want to force him to surrender his supplies you had have to go out of first-person to circle around him, then back into first person to threaten him and then a slow release of the button to then perform a close quarters takedown[[note]]assuming you're not using a tranquilizer gun, at which point just shoot him in the face and be done with it[[/note]]. Not to mention that some enemies need you to hold them up with something bigger than your pistols, meaning pressing the weapon button too hard (which must be held throughout this ritual) will result in you just blasting the enemy in the face, and pressing it too lightly will result in you lowering your weapon, at which point the guy you're trying to hold up will instantly attack you.



** ''VideoGame/GuitarHero'': Especially the first game, with its unreliable hammer-on/pull-off system. "Bark At the Moon", the hardest song for the first game, took nearly two ''years'' to full-combo because players were forced to strum most of the solos to consistently hit the notes.
** ''VideoGame/RockBand'': These are difficult songs, but not the hardest in the game.
*** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T3mA4-NxZc Guitar]].
*** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAyCc6gapmo Bass]].
*** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gt_z72hkH0 Drums]].
*** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLQSMQ1D6Dk Keyboard]], introduced in ''Rock Band 3''.

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** ''VideoGame/GuitarHero'': Especially the first game, with its unreliable hammer-on/pull-off system. "Bark At the Moon", the hardest song for the first game, took nearly two ''years'' to full-combo because players were are forced to strum most of the solos to consistently hit the notes.
%% ** ''VideoGame/RockBand'': These are difficult songs, but not the hardest in the game.
*** %%* ** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T3mA4-NxZc Guitar]].
%% *** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAyCc6gapmo Bass]].
%% *** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gt_z72hkH0 Drums]].
%% *** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLQSMQ1D6Dk Keyboard]], introduced in ''Rock Band 3''.



** ''VideoGame/DanceDanceRevolution'': [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPDdultxBSc&feature=related]]
** ''VideoGame/InTheGroove'' players make ridiculous [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9CpWJQXe0A custom songs]].
** Fellow panel-based dance game ''VideoGame/PumpItUp'' often features charts where the player has to hit at least three panels at once. The obvious solution is to drop down and hit some of the panels with your hands, though the more efficient solution is to place your feet such that they hit more than one panel each.
** ''VideoGame/{{Beatmania}}'': [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVp6Xj5M7Bo&feature=related]]

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%% ** ''VideoGame/DanceDanceRevolution'': [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPDdultxBSc&feature=related]]
%% ** ''VideoGame/InTheGroove'' players make ridiculous [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9CpWJQXe0A custom songs]].
** Fellow panel-based dance game ''VideoGame/PumpItUp'' often features charts where the player has to hit at least three panels at once. The obvious solution is to drop down and hit some of the panels with your hands, though the more efficient solution is to place your feet such that they hit more than one panel each.
%% ** ''VideoGame/{{Beatmania}}'': [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVp6Xj5M7Bo&feature=related]]



* Somewhat like the above example, playing ''VideoGame/LostMagic'' on the DS will have many people screaming in rage due to the games tendency of confusing (or outright ''rejecting'') the players drawn runes. Considering the [[NintendoHard difficulty of the game]] and the amount of runes you have to draw with very little time, this gets old ''really'' quickly.
** ''Arx Fatalis'' has a similar problem, but it's more likely to reject a rune than substitute the closest thing available. One gets the feeling it was designed for a joystick that could only draw at 45 and 90 degree angles, rather than a computer mouse that can do 46, 44, and so on.
* The first three ''VideoGame/CommanderKeen'' games use the combination Ctrl + Alt to fire Keen's raygun. That's not so bad... except that Ctrl and Alt are used separately to jump and to use Keen's pogo stick, respectively. This results in a ''lot'' of jumping/pogoing around like an idiot when one intended to shoot, and almost as much accidental shooting when one was trying to pull off a tricky pogo/jump maneuver.

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* Somewhat like the above example, playing Playing ''VideoGame/LostMagic'' on the DS will have many people screaming in rage due to the games tendency of confusing (or outright ''rejecting'') the players drawn runes. Considering the [[NintendoHard difficulty of the game]] and the amount of runes you have to draw with very little time, this gets old ''really'' quickly.
** * ''Arx Fatalis'' has a similar problem, but it's more likely to reject a rune than substitute the closest thing available. One gets the feeling it was designed for a joystick that could can only draw at 45 and 90 degree angles, rather than a computer mouse that can do 46, 44, and so on.
* The first three ''VideoGame/CommanderKeen'' games use the combination Ctrl + Alt to fire Keen's raygun. That's not so bad... except that Ctrl and Alt are used separately to jump and to use Keen's pogo stick, respectively. This results in a ''lot'' of jumping/pogoing around like an idiot when one intended intends to shoot, and almost as much accidental shooting when one was is trying to pull off a tricky pogo/jump maneuver.



** In early versions of Windows, hitting Alt + Space was the command to switch to a windowed mode. Doing this to a DOS program while running in Windows was essentially a kiss of death, locking up most of windows (like the shutdown command) and giving you messages about PIF settings. With ''Commander Keen'', there would always be that one time a finger accidentally strayed to that crevice between the Alt and Spacebar, both heavily used keys, usually forcing the user to cut power to the computer to restart. Tech savvy users quickly learned to run it in DOS instead of Windows (and users less so continued to suffer without knowing any alternative).
* ''VideoGame/{{Fahrenheit}}'': Many QuickTimeEvents required you to press both control sticks in different directions, or a lot of consistent ButtonMashing for long stretches of time in order to survive various challenges. It's easy to lose coordination during the control prompts and wear out your trigger fingers while mashing. Prepare to hear [[HaveANiceDeath "And that's the end of my story"]] A LOT.
* ''VideoGame/{{Action52}}'' has 4 games where, in order to jump, player has to move and then tap B very lightly (since player can't move horizontally when holding the jump button). This makes making precision jumps very hard. And in most of the games, [[DamnYouMuscleMemory you use B rather than A to jump]].

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** In early versions of Windows, hitting Alt + Space was is the command to switch to a windowed mode. Doing this to a DOS program while running in Windows was is essentially a kiss of death, locking up most of windows (like the shutdown command) and giving you messages about PIF settings. With ''Commander Keen'', there would will always be that one time a finger accidentally strayed strays to that crevice between the Alt and Spacebar, both heavily used keys, usually forcing the user to cut power to the computer to restart. Tech savvy users quickly learned to run it in DOS instead of Windows (and users less so continued to suffer without knowing any alternative).
* ''VideoGame/{{Fahrenheit}}'': Many QuickTimeEvents required require you to press both control sticks in different directions, or a lot of consistent ButtonMashing for long stretches of time in order to survive various challenges. It's easy to lose coordination during the control prompts and wear out your trigger fingers while mashing. Prepare to hear [[HaveANiceDeath "And that's the end of my story"]] A LOT.
* ''VideoGame/{{Action52}}'' has 4 games where, in order to jump, the player has to move and then tap B very lightly (since the player can't move horizontally when holding the jump button). This makes making precision jumps very hard. And in most of the games, [[DamnYouMuscleMemory you use B rather than A to jump]].



* ''VideoGame/SteelBattalion'' came with a controller that was bigger than most desks and was, basically, a "[[AMechByAnyOtherName vertical tank]]" (mech) simulator.

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* ''VideoGame/SteelBattalion'' came comes with a controller that was that's bigger than most desks and was, is, basically, a "[[AMechByAnyOtherName vertical tank]]" (mech) simulator.



** The sequel "Heavy Armor" which used the Kinnect controller, had similar problems and took a lot of getting used to for many. Some reviewers like Angry Joe claimed that it was broken, though other people on sites like Gamefaqs claim that that's not the case. The controls just happen to be EXTREMELY sensitive and require VERY precise movements in order to perform certain functions(I.E. venting smoke from the mech when it takes too many hits) and moving even slightly too much can result in doing certain things by accident which can cause frustration.

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** The sequel "Heavy Armor" ''Heavy Armor'', which used uses the Kinnect Kinect controller, had has similar problems and took takes a lot of getting used to for many. Some reviewers like Angry Joe claimed that it was broken, though other people on sites like Gamefaqs claim that that's not the case. The controls just happen to be EXTREMELY sensitive and require VERY precise movements in order to perform certain functions(I.functions( I.E. venting smoke from the mech when it takes too many hits) and moving even slightly too much can result in doing certain things by accident which can cause frustration.



* The famous HurricaneKick in ''VideoGame/DoubleDragon II'', which required mashing both the A and B buttons twice(technically, you only needed to hit one the second time, but the move was hard enough as it was), with absolute perfect timing. This move was invaluable when surrounded by enemies, but if not done just right, it would result in a plain old jump kick, which would knock one {{Mook}} down, leaving the others to beat on your ass, as you tried to get up.
* ''GunZ: The Duel'' had programming gaps that allowed players to do move cancels unintended by the developers, introducing a whole new complex metagame, with the simpler moves like "slashshot" requiring 6 keypresses in less than a second[[note]]jump, dash, slash, switch to gun, shoot, switch back to sword, and land.[[/note]]. Then you've got moves with about 20 keypresses in them, most of which need to be precisely timed, a d-style move that require you to dash and lunge[[note]]extended lunge, tap one of the basic movement keys (cursor keys and wasd usually) then tap the same key along with your lunge key.[[/note]]at the exact same time, and some others that need to be timed precisely against the lag between you and your opponent. Even just getting a hit in when your opponent is doing this qualifies as you'll be shooting at someone who's bouncing all over the place changing directions and blocking half the time. Most inexperienced players just spam their guns hoping to get at least some hits in, needless to say this rarely works.

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* The famous HurricaneKick in ''VideoGame/DoubleDragon II'', which required requires mashing both the A and B buttons twice(technically, twice (technically, you only needed need to hit one the second time, but the move was is hard enough as it was), is), with absolute perfect timing. This move was is invaluable when surrounded by enemies, but if not done just right, it would will result in a plain old jump kick, which would will knock one {{Mook}} down, leaving the others to beat on your ass, ass as you tried try to get up.
* ''GunZ: The Duel'' had has programming gaps that allowed allow players to do move cancels unintended by the developers, introducing a whole new complex metagame, with the simpler moves like "slashshot" requiring 6 keypresses in less than a second[[note]]jump, dash, slash, switch to gun, shoot, switch back to sword, and land.[[/note]]. Then you've got moves with about 20 keypresses in them, most of which need to be precisely timed, a d-style move that require you to dash and lunge[[note]]extended lunge, tap one of the basic movement keys (cursor keys and wasd usually) then tap the same key along with your lunge key.[[/note]]at the exact same time, and some others that need to be timed precisely against the lag between you and your opponent. Even just getting a hit in when your opponent is doing this qualifies as you'll be shooting at someone who's bouncing all over the place changing directions and blocking half the time. Most inexperienced players just spam their guns hoping to get at least some hits in, needless in. Needless to say say, this rarely works.



* ''VideoGame/TetrisTheGrandMaster'' has Firm Drop, a type of hard drop in which the piece drops instantly, but doens't lock into place. As the series is arcade-based, this requires pressing up, and then if you want to quickly lock the piece, you have to flick the stick down, and you might accidentally hit left or right in the process, causing your piece to shift unnecessarily. That said, [[DifficultButAwesome Firm Drop once mastered becomes an extremely useful mechanic for fixing overhangs and performing other advanced techniques]].

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* ''VideoGame/TetrisTheGrandMaster'' has Firm Drop, a type of hard drop in which the piece drops instantly, but doens't doesn't lock into place. As the series is arcade-based, this requires pressing up, and then if you want to quickly lock the piece, you have to flick the stick down, and you might accidentally hit left or right in the process, causing your piece to shift unnecessarily. That said, [[DifficultButAwesome Firm Drop once mastered becomes an extremely useful mechanic for fixing overhangs and performing other advanced techniques]].



* ''VideoGame/CursedMountain'' for the UsefulNotes/{{Wii}} requires you to perform Mudras by waving the Wii Remote, otherwise the angry ghosts would regenerate health instead of being banished. In theory, these were simple slashes performed in sequence, but while diagonals were easy, horizontal and especially vertical required you to have nearly architectural precision, in the middle of frantic combat, however it is generally accepted that holding the wii-mote like the pickaxe (upside up) while doing the rituals improves the detection a lot. [[AuthorsSavingThrow This was fixed in]] [[PolishedPort the PC version]] by having you simply move the mouse to draw the symbol, a la ''VideoGame/CastlevaniaPortraitOfRuin'' - and in practice, you only needed to touch specific points on the symbol for it to activate.

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* ''VideoGame/CursedMountain'' for the UsefulNotes/{{Wii}} requires you to perform Mudras by waving the Wii Remote, otherwise the angry ghosts would will regenerate health instead of being banished. In theory, these were are simple slashes performed in sequence, but while diagonals were are easy, horizontal and especially vertical required require you to have nearly architectural precision, in the middle of frantic combat, however combat. However, it is generally accepted that holding the wii-mote Wiimote like the pickaxe (upside up) while doing the rituals improves the detection a lot. [[AuthorsSavingThrow This was fixed in]] [[PolishedPort the PC version]] by having you simply move the mouse to draw the symbol, a la ''VideoGame/CastlevaniaPortraitOfRuin'' - and in practice, you only needed need to touch specific points on the symbol for it to activate.



* Done deliberately in ''VideoGame/HeavyRain'', where things that are tricky to do in real life require you to hold a bunch of buttons at the same time.
** Perhaps the worst comes when Norman Jayden suffers another Triptocaine attack while shaking down Mad Jack. [[PressXToNotDie Hold down 7-button-combination to not die.]] This sequence is ''extremely'' difficult, because the game asks you to push and hold the buttons in a non-standard sequence (R1, X, L2, Triangle, R2, Square, etc), which means that by the time you reach the seventh button, you're probably out of fingers unless you knew in advance what buttons to push. However, the sequence is entirely [[JustifiedTrope justified]], as Jayden is trying to give himself a drug injection, while holding a gun on a dangerous criminal with hands that are shaking like a leaf in a hurricane. It would be more surprising if he ''succeeded'' (failure does not result in death).

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* Done deliberately in ''VideoGame/HeavyRain'', where things that are tricky to do in real life require you to hold a bunch of buttons at the same time.
**
time. Perhaps the worst comes when Norman Jayden suffers another Triptocaine attack while shaking down Mad Jack. [[PressXToNotDie Hold down 7-button-combination to not die.]] This sequence is ''extremely'' difficult, because the game asks you to push and hold the buttons in a non-standard sequence (R1, X, L2, Triangle, R2, Square, etc), which means that by the time you reach the seventh button, you're probably out of fingers unless you knew in advance what buttons to push. However, the sequence is entirely [[JustifiedTrope justified]], as Jayden is trying to give himself a drug injection, while holding a gun on a dangerous criminal with hands that are shaking like a leaf in a hurricane. It would be more surprising if he ''succeeded'' (failure does not result in death).



* The first ''VideoGame/{{Warcraft}}'' game, when it came out, had a complex control system. Moving and commanding units took more than twice as much clicks or button presses than they do in recent times.
* ''VideoGame/DuneII'' did not allow selecting multiple units, nor did the units have much AI beyond "shoot random enemy in range", so attacks required a lot of micromanagement. On the defensive side, factories had a separate full-screen menu for building units.

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* The first ''VideoGame/{{Warcraft}}'' game, when it came out, had a complex control system. Moving and commanding units took takes more than twice as much clicks or button presses than they do in recent later times.
* ''VideoGame/DuneII'' did not doesn't allow selecting multiple units, nor did do the units have much AI beyond "shoot random enemy in range", so attacks required require a lot of micromanagement. On the defensive side, factories had have a separate full-screen menu for building units.



* ''SinAndPunishment''[='s=] control scheme definitely took some getting used to, both for the N64 and Gamecube controls. The left control stick/D-pad was actually used to aim, while pushing buttons on the right side made you strafe back and forth, and the shoulder buttons made you fire and jump. On top of the wacky control scheme, the game made you pull off some crazy acrobatics in some parts that would be difficult even with a normal control scheme. Fortunately, the sequel switched over to the Wii Remote and nunchuck setup, making the controls much, MUCH more intuitive.

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* ''SinAndPunishment''[='s=] control scheme definitely took takes some getting used to, both for the N64 and Gamecube controls. The left control stick/D-pad was is actually used to aim, while pushing buttons on the right side made makes you strafe back and forth, and the shoulder buttons made make you fire and jump. On top of the wacky control scheme, the game made makes you pull off some crazy acrobatics in some parts that would be difficult even with a normal control scheme. Fortunately, the sequel switched over to the Wii Remote and nunchuck setup, making the controls much, MUCH more intuitive.



* ''VideoGame/AdventureIsland II''. There is a [[ClassicCheatCode long stage select code]] which performing can be like pulling teeth. It could only be put in during a specific portion of the opening sequence, meaning you had to restart if you missed it. It didn't help that game magazines actually printed an incorrect version of the code. And your reward for inputting it correctly? The ability to skip to any level... with absolutely no weapons, and therefore being virtually {{Unwinnable}}.

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* ''VideoGame/AdventureIsland II''. There is a [[ClassicCheatCode long stage select code]] which performing can be like pulling teeth. teeth to perform. It could can only be put in during a specific portion of the opening sequence, meaning you had have to restart if you missed miss it. It didn't doesn't help that game magazines actually printed an incorrect version of the code. And your reward for inputting it correctly? The ability to skip to any level... with absolutely no weapons, and therefore being virtually {{Unwinnable}}.



* The SNES adaptation of ''VideoGame/BatmanForever''. Combine already unresponsive controls with confusing button combos (example: Select+Up in certain situations activates the grappling hook, though sometimes it causes Batman or Robin to jump.) and you have a bad combination. WebVideo/TheAngryVideoGameNerd didn't let this go unnoticed. It's ''even worse'' in the GameBoy port of the game, where its controls are even less responsive and button combos were found by [[GuideDangIt button mashing]]. Good luck trying to do a OneHundredPercentCompletion run in all four of the levels! This is also true in the Genesis version, due to the game using ''VideoGame/MortalKombat''-like controls (i.e., fighting game controls) for a platforming/beat-em-up game.

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* The SNES adaptation of ''VideoGame/BatmanForever''. Combine already unresponsive controls with confusing button combos (example: Select+Up in certain situations activates the grappling hook, though sometimes it causes Batman or Robin to jump.) and you have a bad combination. WebVideo/TheAngryVideoGameNerd didn't let this go unnoticed. It's ''even worse'' in the GameBoy port UsefulNotes/GameBoy and UsefulNotes/GameGear ports of the game, where its controls are even less responsive and button combos were found by [[GuideDangIt button mashing]]. Good luck trying to do a OneHundredPercentCompletion run in all four of the levels! This is also true in the Genesis version, due to the game using ''VideoGame/MortalKombat''-like controls (i.e., fighting game controls) for a platforming/beat-em-up game.



* The PSX version of ''Armorines: Project Swarm'' has one of the strangest and most uncomfortable control scheme in any FPS ever. For example, moving backward and foward is done by pressing R1 and R2 (whereas almost every other Playstation FPS more logically used the shoulder buttons for strafing) and the strafe buttons are mapped to square and circle, making using any other functions while moving diagonally uncomfortable. It's slightly better with the analog controls, but even then, it [[DamnYouMuscleMemory inverts]] the "left stick moves, right aims" convention used in other dual stick FPSs.
* The original ''{{Starcraft}}'' and its expansion had an artificially elevated skill cap due to the large Action Per Minute requirements of certain basic functions (such as queuing mutiple build orders on more than one building). Bad pathfinding also meant that players had to babysit units on the opposite side of the map ''while managing their economy back home''. While the sequel streamlined many of these mechanics, there are now specific micromanagement-heavy new ones that can turn a defeat into a victory (or vice versa if used badly).

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* The PSX version of ''Armorines: Project Swarm'' has one of the strangest and most uncomfortable control scheme schemes in any FPS ever. For example, moving backward and foward is done by pressing R1 and R2 (whereas almost every other Playstation FPS more logically used uses the shoulder buttons for strafing) and the strafe buttons are mapped to square and circle, making using any other functions while moving diagonally uncomfortable. It's slightly better with the analog controls, but even then, it [[DamnYouMuscleMemory inverts]] the "left stick moves, right aims" convention used in other dual stick FPSs.
* The original ''{{Starcraft}}'' and its expansion had have an artificially elevated skill cap due to the large Action Per Minute requirements of certain basic functions (such as queuing mutiple build orders on more than one building). Bad pathfinding also meant means that players had have to babysit units on the opposite side of the map ''while managing their economy back home''. While the sequel streamlined many of these mechanics, there are now specific micromanagement-heavy new ones that can turn a defeat into a victory (or vice versa if used badly).



* That sound you hear is the cruel laughter of the Virtual World ''TabletopGame/BattleTech'' pods set to veteran mode, ie., every function in the cockpit is activated and will eventually need to be used, especially in emergencies. While screen and control layouts varied somewhat, [[http://i.imgur.com/hwfMu.jpg this]] is considered an average pod layout. Good luck keeping your hands on the throttle and joystick in the middle of a pitched fight when your systems are going haywire and need to be fixed.

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* That sound you hear is the cruel laughter of the The Virtual World ''TabletopGame/BattleTech'' pods set to veteran mode, ie., every function in the cockpit is activated and will eventually need to be used, especially in emergencies. While screen and control layouts varied vary somewhat, [[http://i.imgur.com/hwfMu.jpg this]] is considered an average pod layout. Good luck keeping your hands on the throttle and joystick in the middle of a pitched fight when your systems are going haywire and need to be fixed.



* The major selling point of the game ''VideoGame/{{Receiver}}'' is the complexity of the controls involved with manipulating your firearm. For example, to reload the magazine of either of the two semiautomatic pistols, rather than simply pressing "R", you tap E (ejecting the magazine), ~ (holstering the gun, to free your other hand), Z repeatedly (once for each loose bullet being inserted), ~ again (to draw the gun), and Z (to insert the magazine) ... and, if the slide is locked open because you fired the last bullet, T to release the slide and chamber a bullet.
* ''{{VideoGame/Shinobi}} 3DS'' suffers from this. Wall jumping in particular can turn into a virtual luck based affair, due to the fact that the game explains it poorly. The game states that you wall jump by jumping when next to a wall. That isn't quite the case, and is a borderline GuideDangIt: There's two ways to wall jump, only one of which works in any situation: a) press jump next to a wall as you start to descend from a previous jump or fall, b) press jump and away from the wall you want to jump off of. What makes this so confusing is that this game requires a ''lot'' of wall jumping, probably more wall jumping than any two games in the series before hand. Also, if done incorrectly, a failed wall jump turns into a double jump spin, which doesn't carry a lot of momentum in the direction you want to go if you're already moving in the opposite direction. Now if you just came off of Shinobi 3: Return of the Ninja Master (which this game pays a lot of homage to), you would think that the correct answer is to press TOWARD the wall you're jumping against, since that is how wall jumping is done in S3. If you aren't paying attention, you might think that it works the same way in Shinobi 3DS, since nothing different happens if you jump next to a wall, and press toward the wall as you are imperceptibly starting to descend. This can easily lead to a situation where one thinks that the wall jumping randomly works, as if you press toward the wall at the peak of your jump, you'll double jump and fail, but one-tenth of a second later, you will get the wall jump. However if you press away from the wall (which the game never tells you), you can wall jump immediately after leaving the ground.

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* The major selling point of the game ''VideoGame/{{Receiver}}'' is was the complexity of the controls involved with manipulating your firearm. For example, to reload the magazine of either of the two semiautomatic pistols, rather than simply pressing "R", you tap E (ejecting the magazine), ~ (holstering the gun, to free your other hand), Z repeatedly (once for each loose bullet being inserted), ~ again (to draw the gun), and Z (to insert the magazine) ... and, if the slide is locked open because you fired the last bullet, T to release the slide and chamber a bullet.
* ''{{VideoGame/Shinobi}} 3DS'' suffers from this. Wall jumping in particular can turn into a virtual luck based affair, due to the fact that because the game explains it poorly. The game states that you wall jump by jumping when next to a wall. That isn't quite the case, and is a borderline GuideDangIt: There's two ways to wall jump, only one of which works in any situation: a) press jump next to a wall as you start to descend from a previous jump or fall, b) press jump and away from the wall you want to jump off of. What makes this so confusing is that this game requires a ''lot'' of wall jumping, probably more wall jumping than any two games in the series before hand. Also, if done incorrectly, a failed wall jump turns into a double jump spin, which doesn't carry a lot of momentum in the direction you want to go if you're already moving in the opposite direction. Now if you just came off of Shinobi ''Shinobi 3: Return of the Ninja Master Master'' (which this game pays a lot of homage to), you would think that the correct answer is to press TOWARD the wall you're jumping against, since that is how wall jumping is done in S3. ''S3''. If you aren't paying attention, you might think that it works the same way in Shinobi 3DS, ''Shinobi 3DS'', since nothing different happens if you jump next to a wall, and press toward the wall as you are imperceptibly starting to descend. This can easily lead to a situation where one thinks that the wall jumping randomly works, as if you press toward the wall at the peak of your jump, you'll double jump and fail, but one-tenth of a second later, you will get the wall jump. However if you press away from the wall (which the game never tells you), you can wall jump immediately after leaving the ground.



* ''VideoGame/OperationFlashpoint'' and its successor ''VideoGame/{{ARMA}}'' has controls for just about anything you can think of that could be used for a military sim. While many common actions are done via the middle mouse button menus, you can do things like whip out your compass and map, bail out of a car, and adjust the zero or optics to your gun.

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* ''VideoGame/OperationFlashpoint'' and its successor ''VideoGame/{{ARMA}}'' has have controls for just about anything you can think of that could be used for a military sim. While many common actions are done via the middle mouse button menus, you can do things like whip out your compass and map, bail out of a car, and adjust the zero or optics to your gun.



* ''MetroidPrimeHunters'' on the [[NintendoDS DS]] used the D-pad for moving, the touch screen for aiming, the ABXY buttons for jumping, shooting etc and the shoulder buttons for secondary weapons like missiles. For those who have never played on a DS, these buttons are not conveniently arranged to be used in a manner anything like this one. [[note]]Bear in mind that all the levels include challenging timed dashes, and if you want the secondary effects of your secondary weapon (eg. homing missiles) then you'll have to hold the shoulder buttons down to charge them.[[/note]]
* Akin to the above example, on the 3DS port of ''VideoGame/StreetFighterIV'' the three kick buttons are A, B and R (in increasing strength), and the three punch buttons are X, Y and L (also in increasing strength). Unfortunately, because the L button is right on the other side of the handheld to most of the other buttons some finger contortion is required at first to be able to press all three punches for such trivial things as Gen's StanceSystem and at least half the Ultra Combos. Even then, because the ABXY buttons are so close to each other it can be hard to tell if you're pressing them all together reliably.

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* ''MetroidPrimeHunters'' on the [[NintendoDS DS]] used uses the D-pad for moving, the touch screen for aiming, the ABXY buttons for jumping, shooting etc shooting, etc. and the shoulder buttons for secondary weapons like missiles. For those who have never played on a DS, these buttons are not conveniently arranged to be used in a manner anything like this one.this. [[note]]Bear in mind that all the levels include challenging timed dashes, and if you want the secondary effects of your secondary weapon (eg. homing missiles) then you'll have to hold the shoulder buttons down to charge them.[[/note]]
* Akin to the above example, on On the 3DS port of ''VideoGame/StreetFighterIV'' ''VideoGame/StreetFighterIV'', the three kick buttons are A, B and R (in increasing strength), and the three punch buttons are X, Y and L (also in increasing strength). Unfortunately, because the L button is right on the other side of the handheld to most of the other buttons some finger contortion is required at first to be able to press all three punches for such trivial things as Gen's StanceSystem and at least half the Ultra Combos. Even then, because the ABXY buttons are so close to each other it can be hard to tell if you're pressing them all together reliably.



* Games where fiddly controls and [[HilarityEnsues the hilarious results]] of inevitably being bad at them are the main selling point are becoming increasingly popular among indie developers. ''VideoGame/SurgeonSimulator2013'' has you playing [[BloodyHilarious the world's clumsiest surgeon]], presumably with the world's most forgiving boss. ''VideoGame/IAmBread'', by the same developer, has you trying to control an inexplicably animated slice of bread attempting to toast itself by any means necessary, evading obstacles that would make it less edible, aided by the ability to magically stick to any object by one or more of its corners, for limited lengths of time.
* And then there's ''VideoGame/MountYourFriends'', a game that controls similarly to ''I Am Bread'', where you and a friend are trying to stack ragdoll men [[FanDisservice in loose banana hammocks]] to greater and greater heights, by holding down buttons to grip and swinging them around with the analog stick or mouse.

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* Games where fiddly controls and [[HilarityEnsues the hilarious results]] of inevitably being bad at them are the main selling point are becoming increasingly popular among indie developers. ''VideoGame/SurgeonSimulator2013'' has you playing [[BloodyHilarious the world's clumsiest surgeon]], presumably with the world's most forgiving boss. ''VideoGame/IAmBread'', by the same developer, has you trying to control an inexplicably animated slice of bread attempting to toast itself by any means necessary, evading obstacles that would make it less edible, aided by the ability to magically stick to any object by one or more of its corners, for limited lengths of time.
* And then there's ''VideoGame/MountYourFriends'', a game that controls similarly to ''I Am Bread'', where you and a friend are trying to stack ragdoll men [[FanDisservice in loose banana hammocks]] to greater and greater heights, by holding down buttons to grip and swinging them around with the analog stick or mouse.



* The first ''VideoGame/DistortedTravesty'' game suffered from this: there's the three basic buttons for moving and ducking, an up button for examining and opening things, a button for jumping and dashing, a button for standard attacks, two buttons for physical and spiritual techs, two buttons for cycling between elements, a pause button, a button for cycling through the spell list for your current element and a button for activating Rave Mode. ''That's more buttons then you can map on a 360 controller.'' The game was meant to be NintendoHard, but the controls were not supposed to be part of the challenge. The creator admitted having so many controls was a dumb idea and streamlined the system considerably in the second and third games.

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* The first ''VideoGame/DistortedTravesty'' game suffered suffers from this: there's the three basic buttons for moving and ducking, an up button for examining and opening things, a button for jumping and dashing, a button for standard attacks, two buttons for physical and spiritual techs, two buttons for cycling between elements, a pause button, a button for cycling through the spell list for your current element and a button for activating Rave Mode. ''That's more buttons then you can map on a 360 controller.'' The game was is meant to be NintendoHard, but the controls were not supposed to be part of the challenge. The creator admitted having so many controls was a dumb idea and streamlined the system considerably in the second and third games.



* ''VideoGame/StarFoxZero'' unfortunately suffered from this problem. The game relies on the game pad as a sort of cockpit which the player can use to have more precise aiming. This is controlled through the gyroscope. Unfortunately the ship still needs to be piloted with the control sticks and the main screen is essential in navigating safely. This forces a multitasking between two screens and two different control methods, not a thing one can get used to quickly. Although if one does get used to the controls they can use them to masterfully dogfight opponents. This can be mitigated in co-op mode where one player can focus on the cockpit shooting while the other can focus on the navigating on the main screen.

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* ''VideoGame/StarFoxZero'' unfortunately suffered suffers from this problem. The game relies on the game pad as a sort of cockpit which the player can use to have more precise aiming. This is controlled through the gyroscope. Unfortunately the ship still needs to be piloted with the control sticks and the main screen is essential in navigating safely. This forces a multitasking between two screens and two different control methods, not a thing one can get used to quickly. Although if one does get used to the controls they can use them to masterfully dogfight opponents. This can be mitigated in co-op mode where one player can focus on the cockpit shooting while the other can focus on the navigating on the main screen.
7th Nov '16 3:37:54 AM ArcaneAzmadi
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* Games in the DarkSouls series take a considerable amount of getting used to - attacks in it are quite slow (and vary in speed and striking style depending on weapon, and whether you're wielding the weapon one-handed or two-handed), there's a sort of strike-and-block dynamic to it, you have a shield you may or may not be using, and the enemies are quite unforgiving. The game has a pretty steep learning curve at first, but eventually the awkward controls make an increasing amount of sense. The relatively slow speed of strikes is a big part of what makes the game difficult, as is the fact that blocking isn't always safe and you can run out of strength, but eventually it gets pretty smooth for the player.

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* Games in the DarkSouls series take a considerable amount of getting used to - attacks in it are quite slow (and vary in speed and striking style depending on weapon, and whether you're wielding the weapon one-handed or two-handed), there's a sort of strike-and-block dynamic to it, you have a shield you may or may not be using, and the enemies are quite unforgiving. The game has a pretty steep learning curve at first, but eventually the awkward controls make an increasing amount of sense. The relatively slow speed of strikes is a big part of what makes the game difficult, as is the fact that blocking isn't always safe and you can run out of strength, but eventually it gets pretty smooth for the player. Also, very few people would argue that the jumping controls in any of the games are not unintuitive at best, atrocious at worst (the first game was arguably the worst as they actually prevented you from dodge-rolling while running, since attempting to do so was how you jumped).
11th Oct '16 7:43:03 AM BSonirachi
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* VideoGame/StreetFighter and other fighting games have an issue with [[MightyGlacier grappler]] characters. Namely, the biggest problem is what's called a "720" motion. Basically, you have to perform two full circles of the joystick in about a second to pull off the move, faster to do it without jumping. Zangief is the main culprit here, but the reason no one complains about it with Zangief is because it's [[DifficultButAwesome completely worth the difficulty]] to finish off a full health opponent in three or four moves, and if you're playing on the defensive, the fact that less than master players telegraph their strategies by hopping around all the time puts them at a tactical disadvantage. Of course, in games that are picky about the diagonals, if you don't have a + arcade stick and are stuck with the keyboard (especially without macros), you ''will'' cry trying to pull a move like this off. Some games are pickier than others, ''VideoGame/BlazBlue'' being to the point where simply pulling off a half circle forward is near-impossible without a macro.

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* VideoGame/StreetFighter ''VideoGame/StreetFighter'' and other fighting games have an issue with [[MightyGlacier grappler]] characters. Namely, the biggest problem is what's called a "720" motion. Basically, you have to perform two full circles of the joystick in about a second to pull off the move, faster to do it without jumping. Zangief is the main culprit here, but the reason no one complains about it with Zangief is because it's [[DifficultButAwesome completely worth the difficulty]] to finish off a full health opponent in three or four moves, and if you're playing on the defensive, the fact that less than master players telegraph their strategies by hopping around all the time puts them at a tactical disadvantage. Of course, in games that are picky about the diagonals, if you don't have a + arcade stick and are stuck with the keyboard (especially without macros), you ''will'' cry trying to pull a move like this off. Some games are pickier than others, ''VideoGame/BlazBlue'' being to the point where simply pulling off a half circle forward is near-impossible without a macro.



* The cheat code system in the Nintendo 64 titles of the Rush racing game series tended to have complicated inputs based around quick combinations of holding down and tapping the four C buttons. This was tricky but merely inconvenient in San Francisco Rush, where the most you could do with it was repeat it to change the tire size and body height of your car. Rush 2049, however, involved combinations for every unlock under the sun, some of them fiendishly difficult and which had to be input fast, but not so fast that the game couldn't recognize it. Unlocking all the car bodies-not the cars and parts, just the bodies-involved hammering out a C-button combo that took more than 12 presses and more than a few tries to nail down.

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* The cheat code system in the Nintendo 64 titles of the Rush racing game series tended to have complicated inputs based around quick combinations of holding down and tapping the four C buttons. This was tricky but merely inconvenient in San ''San Francisco Rush, Rush'', where the most you could do with it was repeat it to change the tire size and body height of your car. Rush 2049, ''Rush 2049'', however, involved combinations for every unlock under the sun, some of them fiendishly difficult and which had to be input fast, but not so fast that the game couldn't recognize it. Unlocking all the car bodies-not the cars and parts, just the bodies-involved hammering out a C-button combo that took more than 12 presses and more than a few tries to nail down.



* {{VideoGame/Shinobi}} 3DS suffers from this. Wall jumping in particular can turn into a virtual luck based affair, due to the fact that the game explains it poorly. The game states that you wall jump by jumping when next to a wall. That isn't quite the case, and is a borderline GuideDangIt: There's two ways to wall jump, only one of which works in any situation: a) press jump next to a wall as you start to descend from a previous jump or fall, b) press jump and away from the wall you want to jump off of. What makes this so confusing is that this game requires a ''lot'' of wall jumping, probably more wall jumping than any two games in the series before hand. Also, if done incorrectly, a failed wall jump turns into a double jump spin, which doesn't carry a lot of momentum in the direction you want to go if you're already moving in the opposite direction. Now if you just came off of Shinobi 3: Return of the Ninja Master (which this game pays a lot of homage to), you would think that the correct answer is to press TOWARD the wall you're jumping against, since that is how wall jumping is done in S3. If you aren't paying attention, you might think that it works the same way in Shinobi 3DS, since nothing different happens if you jump next to a wall, and press toward the wall as you are imperceptibly starting to descend. This can easily lead to a situation where one thinks that the wall jumping randomly works, as if you press toward the wall at the peak of your jump, you'll double jump and fail, but one-tenth of a second later, you will get the wall jump. However if you press away from the wall (which the game never tells you), you can wall jump immediately after leaving the ground.
* While they're not nearly as bad as some of the other examples here, the [[Main/MarioAndLuigi Mario and Luigi]] games have some fairly complex Bros. Attacks/Special Attacks. Most of them aren't too bad aside from the ridiculous timing required, but a couple involve pressing A or B at the right time with no way knowing which one to press unless you pay close attention at the start of the attack and have good memory.

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* {{VideoGame/Shinobi}} 3DS ''{{VideoGame/Shinobi}} 3DS'' suffers from this. Wall jumping in particular can turn into a virtual luck based affair, due to the fact that the game explains it poorly. The game states that you wall jump by jumping when next to a wall. That isn't quite the case, and is a borderline GuideDangIt: There's two ways to wall jump, only one of which works in any situation: a) press jump next to a wall as you start to descend from a previous jump or fall, b) press jump and away from the wall you want to jump off of. What makes this so confusing is that this game requires a ''lot'' of wall jumping, probably more wall jumping than any two games in the series before hand. Also, if done incorrectly, a failed wall jump turns into a double jump spin, which doesn't carry a lot of momentum in the direction you want to go if you're already moving in the opposite direction. Now if you just came off of Shinobi 3: Return of the Ninja Master (which this game pays a lot of homage to), you would think that the correct answer is to press TOWARD the wall you're jumping against, since that is how wall jumping is done in S3. If you aren't paying attention, you might think that it works the same way in Shinobi 3DS, since nothing different happens if you jump next to a wall, and press toward the wall as you are imperceptibly starting to descend. This can easily lead to a situation where one thinks that the wall jumping randomly works, as if you press toward the wall at the peak of your jump, you'll double jump and fail, but one-tenth of a second later, you will get the wall jump. However if you press away from the wall (which the game never tells you), you can wall jump immediately after leaving the ground.
* While they're not nearly as bad as some of the other examples here, the [[Main/MarioAndLuigi Mario and Luigi]] ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi'' games have some fairly complex Bros. Attacks/Special Attacks. Most of them aren't too bad aside from the ridiculous timing required, but a couple involve pressing A or B at the right time with no way knowing which one to press unless you pay close attention at the start of the attack and have good memory.



* VideoGame/Goldeneye1997 has a code to unlock a bunch of additional characters to use in multiplayer, which requires you to hold L and the D-pad with your left hand, R and some buttons with your right hands, then enter a series of directions on the joystick with you... third hand? Face? And this doesn't save, so you have to re-enter it each time you play.
* ''VideoGame/RisingThunder'' is a ''Street Fighter'' style fighting game that [[DefiedTrope very deliberately avoids]] complicated inputs, instead making special moves and super moves each take a single button.

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* VideoGame/Goldeneye1997 ''VideoGame/Goldeneye1997'' has a code to unlock a bunch of additional characters to use in multiplayer, which requires you to hold L and the D-pad with your left hand, R and some buttons with your right hands, then enter a series of directions on the joystick with you... third hand? Face? And this doesn't save, so you have to re-enter it each time you play.
* ''VideoGame/RisingThunder'' is a ''Street Fighter'' style Fighter''-style fighting game that [[DefiedTrope very deliberately avoids]] complicated inputs, instead making special moves and super moves each take a single button.



* ''VideoGame/StarFoxZero'' unfortunately suffered from this problem. The game relies on the game pad as a sort of cockpit which the player can use to have more precise aiming. This is controlled through the gyroscope. Unfortunately the ship still needs to be piloted with the control sticks and the main screen is essential in navigating safely. This forces a multitasking between two screens and two different control methods, not a think one can get used to quickly. Although if one does get used to the controls they can use them to masterfully dogfight opponents. This can be mitigated in co-op mode where one player can focus on the cockpit shooting while the other can focus on the navigating on the main screen.

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* ''VideoGame/StarFoxZero'' unfortunately suffered from this problem. The game relies on the game pad as a sort of cockpit which the player can use to have more precise aiming. This is controlled through the gyroscope. Unfortunately the ship still needs to be piloted with the control sticks and the main screen is essential in navigating safely. This forces a multitasking between two screens and two different control methods, not a think thing one can get used to quickly. Although if one does get used to the controls they can use them to masterfully dogfight opponents. This can be mitigated in co-op mode where one player can focus on the cockpit shooting while the other can focus on the navigating on the main screen.
1st Oct '16 8:19:08 AM AndyLA
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* The SNES and Sega Genesis ports of ''Videogame/UltimateMortalKombat3'' introduced a finishing move known as a Brutality. To pull one off, you had to memorize a long string of well-timed attacks (all starting with High Punch) and if you were successful, the combo would continue on its own and end in an exploding uppercut. And each character had a unique attack sequence.
* 10 hit combos in Tekken. Timing is essential to pull off these combos, often having to press the button for the next attack before the current one is finished. And many of the characters have combos that involve pressing LP + RK or RP + LK (that's Square + Circle and Triangle + X on a Playstation Controller). This can be made easier, however, by programming the shoulder buttons to correspond to the aforementioned button combinations. [[DifficultButAwesome And if you manage to pull one off, half the opponent's health goes down the gutter]].

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* The SNES and Sega Genesis ports of ''Videogame/UltimateMortalKombat3'' ''[[VideoGame/MortalKombat3 Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3]]'' introduced a finishing move known as a Brutality.Brutality (which would carry over to ''Mortal Kombat Trilogy''). To pull one off, you had to memorize a long string of well-timed attacks (all starting with High Punch) and if you were successful, the combo would continue on its own and end in an exploding uppercut. And each character had a unique attack sequence.
* 10 hit combos in Tekken.''VideoGame/{{Tekken}}''. Timing is essential to pull off these combos, often having to press the button for the next attack before the current one is finished. And many of the characters have combos that involve pressing LP + RK or RP + LK (that's Square + Circle and Triangle + X on a Playstation Controller). This can be made easier, however, by programming the shoulder buttons to correspond to the aforementioned button combinations. [[DifficultButAwesome And if you manage to pull one off, half the opponent's health goes down the gutter]].



** Adding to this is the modern method of performing his Deadly Rave DM. Especially when it can only be used once per round in [=SVC=] Chaos: SNK vs. Capcom. The input needed to pull off the move in that game is the following: Roll the stick from forward to downward to back, bring it forward and hit buttons B, C, and D at the same time, wait for Geese to start performing the move, then timing each of the following button presses just as Geese does each attack in the sequence: A, A, B, B, C, C, D, D, and then roll the stick from down to backward and hit C and D at the same time to get a big blast of energy. And no, you can't just mash the "A, A, B, B..." part, because performing it too slowly ''or'' too quickly will ruin the move. Oh, and if you screw up at any point after the first B + C + D attack (assuming you don't get attacked or fail to pull off the move in the first place), the move does extremely little damage. Even if you only fail the "QCB + C + D" part at the end. And in the case of [=SVC=] Chaos, if you begin executing this move and fail it, even if it's because your opponent attacked you and ended the move prematurely, you ''don't get to use it for the rest of the round.'' At least other King of Fighters and Fatal Fury games are nice enough to let you use the move infinitely while a certain meter lasts, or at least grant you the ability to refill said meter. Some even have an easier variation of the move. It's still hard even without requiring a QCB + simultaneous button press at the end, though. If there's anything worthwhile about the move, however, it's that it does extremely high damage if pulled off correctly. Then again, a good number of other characters have moves of roughly equivalent power while not requiring such insane input. Or at least a better damage-to-move-difficulty ratio. This wasn't a problem in it first appearence in ''VideoGame/ArtOfFighting 2'' or KOF 98 Ultimate Match, where it was an automatic ranbu-type DM.

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** Adding to this is the modern method of performing his Deadly Rave DM. Especially when it can only be used once per round in [=SVC=] Chaos: SNK vs. Capcom.''VideoGame/SVCChaosSNKVsCapcom''. The input needed to pull off the move in that game is the following: Roll the stick from forward to downward to back, bring it forward and hit buttons B, C, and D at the same time, wait for Geese to start performing the move, then timing each of the following button presses just as Geese does each attack in the sequence: A, A, B, B, C, C, D, D, and then roll the stick from down to backward and hit C and D at the same time to get a big blast of energy. And no, you can't just mash the "A, A, B, B..." part, because performing it too slowly ''or'' too quickly will ruin the move. Oh, and if you screw up at any point after the first B + C + D attack (assuming you don't get attacked or fail to pull off the move in the first place), the move does extremely little damage. Even if you only fail the "QCB + C + D" part at the end. And in the case of [=SVC=] Chaos, ''[=SVC=] Chaos'', if you begin executing this move and fail it, even if it's because your opponent attacked you and ended the move prematurely, you ''don't get to use it for the rest of the round.'' At least other King ''King of Fighters Fighters'' and Fatal Fury ''Fatal Fury'' games are nice enough to let you use the move infinitely while a certain meter lasts, or at least grant you the ability to refill said meter. Some even have an easier variation of the move. It's still hard even without requiring a QCB + simultaneous button press at the end, though. If there's anything worthwhile about the move, however, it's that it does extremely high damage if pulled off correctly. Then again, a good number of other characters have moves of roughly equivalent power while not requiring such insane input. Or at least a better damage-to-move-difficulty ratio. This wasn't a problem in it first appearence in ''VideoGame/ArtOfFighting 2'' or KOF 98 Ultimate Match, where it was an automatic ranbu-type DM.



** ''VideoGame/SamuraiShodown 2'' had its share of difficult motions, most of them being for the [[SuperDeformed "Super Deformed Transformation"]] and certain secret special moves that only a few characters had. Of all those motions, Haohmaru's Tempa Fuujin Zan deserves special mention, being: Down-forward, half circle forward, back, down, down-back plus medium slash and weak kick buttons together.

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** ''VideoGame/SamuraiShodown 2'' had its share of difficult motions, most of them being for the [[SuperDeformed "Super Deformed Transformation"]] and certain secret special moves that only a few characters had. Of all those motions, Haohmaru's Tempa Ten'ha Fuujin Zan deserves special mention, being: Down-forward, half circle forward, back, down, down-back plus medium slash and weak kick buttons together.



* And about SNK, a completely different example is ''VideoGame/BurikiOne'', which all the commands were changed upside down: the buttons are for movement (forward and back) and the joystick is for attack and defense moves. Also, pressing both direction buttons make you block/guard.

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** It seemed SNK did learn their lesson in ''[[VideoGame/FatalFury Garou: Mark of the Wolves]]'', where all Desperation Moves are performed with two quarter-circles forward and both punch/kick buttons. Later games just won't let go of the more complicated commands because of the players who actually learned to pull them off, or who simply remember the inputs and don't want to bother relearning them from scratch.
* And Also about SNK, a completely different example is ''VideoGame/BurikiOne'', which all the commands were changed upside down: the buttons are for movement (forward and back) and the joystick is for attack and defense moves. Also, pressing both direction buttons make you block/guard.
22nd Sep '16 6:44:59 AM Wereboar
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Finally, there is a case, where the controls are neither complex nor unergonomic, but they put more stress on timing. This is usually seen in the games aiming to portray action more realistically, taking into account such things as the time required to actually deliver an attack or proper synchronization of gears to avoid stalling.
9th Sep '16 12:17:12 PM BiffJr
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*** [[NintendoHard Pro Guitar]]. [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQfcs5osqK8#t=17s Oh Pro Guitar]]. It's pretty much the straightest example of this trope in a rhythm game; over 100 positions [[note]]over 130 on the Squier[[/note]], and some chords require four fingers. And God help you if it's a song with fancy strumming patterns. A little [[GameplayDerailment derailment]] is possible though.

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*** [[NintendoHard Pro Guitar]]. [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQfcs5osqK8#t=17s [[https://youtu.be/Jbrh_v2Acek?t=16s Oh Pro Guitar]]. It's pretty much the straightest example of this trope in a rhythm game; over 100 positions [[note]]over 130 on the Squier[[/note]], and some chords require four fingers. And God help you if it's a song with fancy strumming patterns. A little [[GameplayDerailment derailment]] is possible though.
17th Aug '16 1:02:01 PM LinTaylor
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* ''Capcom Fighting All-Stars'', a cancelled crossover game, revealed a pretty big one when its moveset was released in 2016: Ingrid's FinishingMove requires the player to draw an hourglass[=/=]number 8 shape and then press a button.
6th Aug '16 11:03:11 PM Gravityman
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** "Quit match" command in ''Brawl'' when you're using the Wii Remote + Nunchuck controls - pause and hit Z, B, 1, and plus at the same time. This generally requires either the participation of your pinkie and ring finger or the use of the Nunchuck hand to push buttons on the Wiimote, and it's rather uncomfortable to accomplish. And you have to hold it for about a second before it registers, [[SarcasmMode because apparently it's entirely possible you might hit those buttons by accident.]]

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** The "Quit match" command in throughout the series requires holding down four separate buttons on all ends of the controller simultaneously, with the exact combination depending upon the controller model. In ''Brawl'' when you're using the Wii Remote + Nunchuck controls - pause and hit Z, B, 1, and plus at the same time. This generally requires either the participation of your pinkie and ring finger or the use of the Nunchuck hand to push buttons on the Wiimote, and it's rather uncomfortable to accomplish. And you have It was likely designed this way to hold make it for about practically impossible to quit a second before it registers, [[SarcasmMode because apparently it's entirely possible you might hit those buttons match by accident.]]
27th Jul '16 5:05:46 AM Morgenthaler
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* On a similar note, there's the Stroop test in ''BrainAge'' (or, for the Europeans out there, ''Brain Training''), for which voice input is ''not'' optional-- and which seems to have difficulty understanding many people's pronunciation of "blue", as [[http://fanboys-online.com/index.php?id=208 this comic]] demonstrates. It was a large enough problem that the Stroop test was removed from the sequel.

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* On a similar note, there's the Stroop test in ''BrainAge'' ''VideoGame/BrainAge'' (or, for the Europeans out there, ''Brain Training''), for which voice input is ''not'' optional-- and which seems to have difficulty understanding many people's pronunciation of "blue", as [[http://fanboys-online.com/index.php?id=208 this comic]] demonstrates. It was a large enough problem that the Stroop test was removed from the sequel.
21st Jul '16 1:39:20 PM REV6Pilot
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* 10-string combos in Tekken. Timing is essential to pull off these combos, often having to press the button for the next attack before the current one is finished. And many of the characters have 10-strings that involve pressing LP + RK or RP + LK (that's Square + Circle and Triangle + X on a Playstation Controller). This can be made easier, however, by programming the shoulder buttons to correspond to the aforementioned button combinations.

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* 10-string 10 hit combos in Tekken. Timing is essential to pull off these combos, often having to press the button for the next attack before the current one is finished. And many of the characters have 10-strings combos that involve pressing LP + RK or RP + LK (that's Square + Circle and Triangle + X on a Playstation Controller). This can be made easier, however, by programming the shoulder buttons to correspond to the aforementioned button combinations. [[DifficultButAwesome And if you manage to pull one off, half the opponent's health goes down the gutter]].
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