History Main / SlidingScaleofFreeWillVsFate

6th Sep '17 6:41:03 AM nighttrainfm
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* In ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars'', since everyone is stuck on prehistoric Earth, Dinobot spends most of the second season agonizing over whether he truly has freedom of choice, or if YouAlreadyChangedThePast is in effect. [[spoiler:He gets his answer when he witness Megatron directly changing the future by blowing a chunk off a mountain, which causes an image of the future version of the same mountain to change and show the chunk missing. Since Megatron plans to wipe out the human race before it even exists by exterminating its prehistoric ancestors, Dinobot notes the irony that knowing he can in fact make his own choices is the very thing that makes him feel he has no choice to make but to pull a HeroicSacrifice and stop it from happening]].
* In ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeagueCrisisOnTwoEarths'', Owlman discovers that neither free will nor fate exists. Any time anyone anywhere makes any choice, the universe itself splits into multiple branches, so it doesn't matter whether you chose A or B, because another universe was just created where you chose the other one. This revelation causes him to go very much off the deep end and attempt to make what he feels is the only choice that truly matters: [[spoiler:[[OmnicidalManiac destroying the entire multiverse]]]].

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* In ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars'', since everyone is stuck on prehistoric Earth, Dinobot spends most of the second season agonizing over whether he truly has freedom of choice, or if YouAlreadyChangedThePast is in effect. [[spoiler:He gets his answer when he witness Megatron directly changing the future by blowing a chunk off a mountain, which causes an image of the future version of the same mountain to change and show the chunk missing. Since Megatron plans to wipe out the human race before it even exists by exterminating its prehistoric ancestors, Dinobot notes the irony that knowing he can can, in fact fact, make his own choices is the very thing that makes him feel he has no choice to make but to pull a HeroicSacrifice and stop it from happening]].
happening.]]
* In ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeagueCrisisOnTwoEarths'', Owlman discovers that neither free will nor fate exists. Any time anyone anywhere makes any choice, the universe itself splits into multiple branches, so it doesn't matter whether you chose A or B, because another universe was just created where you chose the other one. This revelation causes him to go very much off the deep end and attempt to make what he feels is the only choice that truly matters: [[spoiler:[[OmnicidalManiac destroying the entire multiverse]]]].multiverse]].]]
30th Aug '17 3:17:08 AM nighttrainfm
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* In the universe of ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' and ''Series/{{Angel}},'' it comes very close to "you can't fight fate" (although you certainly ''can'' make it literally true but mean different things). Prophecy showed Buffy was destined to die fighting The Master. Despite Buffy's attempt to avert it by not fighting him (she changes her mind), Giles' attempt to avert it by wanting to be the one to fight The Master, and an attempt by Xander to fight it as well, it happens...but then Xander brings her back to life with mouth to mouth.
** Similarly, "The Father Will Kill The Son" relating to Angel and Connor, even though it was placed in a prophecy book to mislead, nevertheless came true, though again just literally: Angel "killed" Connor, but as part of a deal that gave Connor a new, more normal, life. The demon who planted the fake prophecy to try to stop the real one that Connor would kill him, nevertheless was in fact killed by Connor. The only aversion of literal fate in the two series might have been Jasmine's defeat in ''Angel'' Season 4; and while the Tro-Clon prophecy sort of suggested something like Jasmine's rise, whether it ruled out her eventual defeat is questionable.

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* In the universe of ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' and ''Series/{{Angel}},'' it ''Series/{{Angel}}'':
** It
comes very close to "you can't fight fate" (although you certainly ''can'' make it literally true but mean different things). Prophecy A prophecy showed Buffy was destined to die fighting The Master. Despite Buffy's attempt to avert it by not fighting him (she changes her mind), Giles' attempt to avert it by wanting to be the one to fight The Master, the Master (Buffy knocks him out), and an attempt by Xander to fight it as well, it happens...but then Xander [[RevivalLoophole brings her back to life with mouth to mouth.
mouth.]] Oh, and just to screw with them further, Buffy's first attempt to fight the Master is what gives him the power to escape his prison.
** Similarly, "Becoming Part One" ends with things going FromBadToWorse for the heroes, and Whistler narrating how "the big moments" in your life are always going to come, no matter what you do. He then refutes the idea that that makes us puppets, saying that it's what you do ''after'' those moments that defines you.
** Then there's
"The Father Will Kill The Son" relating to Angel and Connor, even Connor. Even though it was placed in a prophecy book to mislead, mislead the heroes, it nevertheless came true, though again just literally: Angel "killed" Connor, but as part of a deal that gave Connor a new, more normal, life. The demon who planted the fake prophecy to try to stop the real ''real'' one - that Connor would kill him, him - nevertheless was in fact killed by Connor. The only aversion of literal fate in the two series might have been Jasmine's defeat in ''Angel'' Season 4; and while the Tro-Clon prophecy sort of suggested something like Jasmine's rise, whether it ruled out her eventual defeat is questionable.
16th Jul '17 4:53:07 AM meanmetalmario
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* In ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars'', since everyone is stuck on prehistoric Earth, Dinobot spends most of the second season agonizing over whether he truly has freedom of choice, or if YouAlreadyChangedThePast is in effect. [[spoiler:He gets his answer when he witness Megatron directly changing the future by blowing a chunk off a mountain, which causes an image of the future version of the same mountain to change and show the chunk missing. Since Megatron plans to wipe out the human race before it even exists by exterminating its prehistoric ancestors, Dinobot notes the irony that he can in fact make his own choices is the very thing that makes him feel he has no choice to make but to pull a HeroicSacrifice and stop it from happening]].

to:

* In ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars'', since everyone is stuck on prehistoric Earth, Dinobot spends most of the second season agonizing over whether he truly has freedom of choice, or if YouAlreadyChangedThePast is in effect. [[spoiler:He gets his answer when he witness Megatron directly changing the future by blowing a chunk off a mountain, which causes an image of the future version of the same mountain to change and show the chunk missing. Since Megatron plans to wipe out the human race before it even exists by exterminating its prehistoric ancestors, Dinobot notes the irony that knowing he can in fact make his own choices is the very thing that makes him feel he has no choice to make but to pull a HeroicSacrifice and stop it from happening]].
16th Jul '17 4:51:48 AM meanmetalmario
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* ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars'' has Dinobot who spends most of the 2nd season contemplating his fate and whether he has any control over it, once he discovers [[spoiler:Megatron has a method to predict the future using the golden disk. Dinobot goes through enough grief that he joins the Predacons for the simple reason they're more likely to win and after rejoining the Maximals he contemplates suicide. He finally finds his answer witnessing Megatron directly changing the future of his own free will, Dinobot becomes relieved and ironically finds himself with no choice but to perform a HeroicSacrifice to thwart Megatron's plan to wipe out human existence. In death, Dinobot finds peace knowing he died from actions of his own free will.]]

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* ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars'' has In ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars'', since everyone is stuck on prehistoric Earth, Dinobot who spends most of the 2nd second season contemplating his fate and agonizing over whether he truly has any control over it, once he discovers [[spoiler:Megatron has a method to predict the future using the golden disk. Dinobot goes through enough grief that he joins the Predacons for the simple reason they're more likely to win and after rejoining the Maximals he contemplates suicide. He finally finds freedom of choice, or if YouAlreadyChangedThePast is in effect. [[spoiler:He gets his answer witnessing when he witness Megatron directly changing the future by blowing a chunk off a mountain, which causes an image of the future version of the same mountain to change and show the chunk missing. Since Megatron plans to wipe out the human race before it even exists by exterminating its prehistoric ancestors, Dinobot notes the irony that he can in fact make his own free will, Dinobot becomes relieved and ironically finds himself with choices is the very thing that makes him feel he has no choice to make but to perform pull a HeroicSacrifice to thwart Megatron's plan to wipe out human existence. In death, Dinobot finds peace knowing he died and stop it from actions of his own happening]].
* In ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeagueCrisisOnTwoEarths'', Owlman discovers that neither
free will.]]will nor fate exists. Any time anyone anywhere makes any choice, the universe itself splits into multiple branches, so it doesn't matter whether you chose A or B, because another universe was just created where you chose the other one. This revelation causes him to go very much off the deep end and attempt to make what he feels is the only choice that truly matters: [[spoiler:[[OmnicidalManiac destroying the entire multiverse]]]].
9th Jun '17 9:32:44 PM 98cc
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[[folder:Theatre]]
* Invoked by the Narrator in ''Theatre/MurderBallad'': ''"Free will and fate both played their part..."''
[[/folder]]
1st Jun '17 7:38:34 PM nombretomado
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* The ''Literature/WheelOfTime'' weaves [[BecauseDestinySaysSo how people live and what they do]], and although there are people, ta'veren, around whom the wheel weaves, even they don't have anything to say in their own lives, because YouCantFightFate.

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* The ''Literature/WheelOfTime'' ''Literature/TheWheelOfTime'' weaves [[BecauseDestinySaysSo how people live and what they do]], and although there are people, ta'veren, around whom the wheel weaves, even they don't have anything to say in their own lives, because YouCantFightFate.
5th Mar '17 10:54:52 AM KingNilbog
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** Indeed, one of the main reasons Black and Blue are enemy colors to Green is that they dislike Green's belief that YouCantFightFate.
4th Feb '17 8:41:07 PM Dawnwing
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* ''Literature/WarriorCats'' basically subscribes to Prophecies Are Guides, Not Rules. [=StarClan=] can warn cats that bad stuff is going to happen, and with this foreknowledge cats are often able to avert terrible events. ''Warriors'' probably exists somewhere between this and Fighting Fate Is Hard, because only some cats succeed in thwarting fate. On the other hand, [[spoiler:Rock claims to have seen the whole future in a vision and is the one making sure it plays out exactly as it's supposed to. And it does. He's the source of all StarClan prophecies, who themselves have no clairvoyance. So you might say that any signs of free will simply come from StarClan not knowing the original vision.]]

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* ''Literature/WarriorCats'' basically subscribes to Prophecies Are Guides, Not Rules. [=StarClan=] can warn cats that bad stuff is going to happen, and with this foreknowledge cats are often able to avert terrible events. ''Warriors'' probably exists somewhere between this and Fighting Fate Is Hard, because only some cats succeed in thwarting fate. On the other hand, [[spoiler:Rock claims to have seen the whole future in a vision and is the one making sure it plays out exactly as it's supposed to. And it does. He's the source of all StarClan [=StarClan=] prophecies, who themselves have no clairvoyance. So you might say that any signs of free will simply come from StarClan [=StarClan=] not knowing the original vision.]]
4th Feb '17 8:40:32 PM Dawnwing
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* ''Literature/WarriorCats'' basically subscribes to Prophecies Are Guides, Not Rules. [=StarClan=] can warn cats that bad stuff is going to happen, and with this foreknowledge cats are often able to avert terrible events. ''Warriors'' probably exists somewhere between this and Fighting Fate Is Hard, because only some cats succeed in thwarting fate. On the other hand, [[spoiler:Rock claims to have seen the whole future in a vision and is the one making sure it plays out exactly as it's supposed to. And it does. He's the source of all StarClan prophecies, who themselves have no clairvoyance. So you might say that any signs of free will simply come from StarClan not knowing the original vision.]]
8th Dec '16 12:24:05 PM Slothgirl
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* The ''Film/StarTrek'' fic ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9795158/1/Written-in-the-Stars Written in the Stars]]'' has this as a theme. The Fem!Kirk of the Alt Reality wants to make her own choices, while her Prime counterpart tries to convince her to hook up with Spock, since the Primes did in the original universe. When it's revealed that Fem!Kirk and Spock hooked up in two other realities, it leaves the question of whether they're all just making the same choices or whether the two are just fated to be together.

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* The ''Film/StarTrek'' fic ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9795158/1/Written-in-the-Stars Written in the Stars]]'' ''Fanfic/WrittenInTheStars'' has this as a theme. The Fem!Kirk of the Alt Reality wants to make her own choices, while her Prime counterpart tries to convince her to hook up with Spock, since the Primes did in the original universe. When it's revealed that Fem!Kirk and Spock hooked up in two other realities, it leaves the question of whether they're all just making the same choices or whether the two are just fated to be together.
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