History Main / SlidingScaleOfAlternateHistoryPlausibility

16th Dec '17 9:17:07 AM Mr.Bubbles
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''Literature/ForAllTime'' starts off with reasonable plausibility. FDR dies of a stroke just a few weeks after Pearl Harbor, leaving Henry Wallace in charge of the country. Far less competent than his predecessor, not to mention Anglophobic, Wallace ends up prolonging World War II with his poor decisions. The American forces have to make do without General Patton, the D-day landing starts a year earlier...and fails miserably, Japan is invaded and [[BalkanizeMe split in two]], the Nazis launch a suicide attack on New York city (which is [[MonumentalDamage mostly]] a failure), and the war ends with ''six'' nuclear bombings in both Germany and Japan. After that, things go [[CrapsackWorld completely insane.]]

to:

* ''Literature/ForAllTime'' starts off with reasonable plausibility. FDR dies of a stroke just a few weeks after Pearl Harbor, leaving Henry Wallace in charge of the country. Far less competent than his predecessor, not to mention Anglophobic, Wallace ends up prolonging World War II with his poor decisions. The American forces have to make do without General Patton, the D-day landing starts a year earlier...and fails miserably, Japan is invaded and [[BalkanizeMe split in two]], the Nazis launch a suicide attack on New York city (which is [[MonumentalDamage mostly]] a failure), city, and the war ends with ''six'' nuclear bombings in both Germany and Japan. After that, things go [[CrapsackWorld completely insane.]]
* ''Literature/DecisiveDarkness'' is solidly this, bordering on type III at times. After the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, a coup is launched within the Japanese government. As a result, war minister [[EvilChancellor Korechika Anami]] seizes control and refuses to surrender, forcing the United States and Soviet Union to both launch land invasions of Japan. What follows is [[WarIsHell an absolute horror show]] involving [[NukeEm atomic bombings]], ChildSoldiers, [[spoiler: DeadlyGas, the Americans accidentally [[GodIsDead killing Hirohito]], and the ultimate division of Japan into five separate nations.]]
15th Oct '17 4:14:20 AM Mr.Bubbles
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

[[AC: Visual Novels]]
* ''VisualNovel/RoseGunsDays'' is set in a world where Japan lost World War II due to a serious natural disaster that hit the country in 1944. America and China got involved with reconstruction, bringing in massive waves of immigrants with them. The Japanese became a minority in their own nation, their traditions cast aside, everyone in Tokyo adopting a second western name, and anyone who can't speak English or Chinese is unable to find work outside of prostitution or the mafia. While all of this is fairly unlikely, the most implausible aspect of the timeline is how ''fast'' it happens. Rather than this being a gradual transition over decades, all of this change occurs less than three years after the Disaster. Still, the author does try to portray more-or-less realistically how such a Japan would be ruled and how the Japanese and immigrants would live in it, as well as the impact it would have on US-China relationships. Perhaps the most realistic outcome of this timeline is that, by 2012, the American and Chinese cultural assimilation has nearly rendered the Japanese language extinct.
9th Oct '17 1:11:20 AM Mr.Bubbles
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''VideoGame/IronStorm'' set in a world where UsefulNotes/WorldWarI has dragged on for fifty years. Baron Ugenberg managed to unite UsefulNotes/TsaristRussia and the Siberian tribes together to create the Russo-Mongolian Empire, which has since annexed Eastern Europe. On the other side is the United States of Western Europe, the last few democracies left on the continent, who've fought the war to a stalemate after [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything Germany was split in two]]. WarIsHell doesn't even begin to describe it.

to:

* ''VideoGame/IronStorm'' set in a world where UsefulNotes/WorldWarI has dragged on for fifty years. Baron Ugenberg managed to unite UsefulNotes/TsaristRussia and the Siberian tribes together to create the Russo-Mongolian Empire, which has since annexed Eastern Europe. On the other side is the United States of Western Europe, the last few democracies left on the continent, who've fought the war to a stalemate after [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything Germany was split in two]]. WarIsHell doesn't even begin to describe it.
it, especially since the conflict is ''nowhere near'' as black and white as it seems...
9th Oct '17 1:10:20 AM Mr.Bubbles
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

* ''VideoGame/IronStorm'' set in a world where UsefulNotes/WorldWarI has dragged on for fifty years. Baron Ugenberg managed to unite UsefulNotes/TsaristRussia and the Siberian tribes together to create the Russo-Mongolian Empire, which has since annexed Eastern Europe. On the other side is the United States of Western Europe, the last few democracies left on the continent, who've fought the war to a stalemate after [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything Germany was split in two]]. WarIsHell doesn't even begin to describe it.
9th Jul '17 5:24:44 AM Mr.Bubbles
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''Literature/ForAllTime'' starts off with reasonable plausibility. FDR dies of a stroke just a few weeks after Pearl Harbor, leaving Henry Wallace in charge of the country. Far less competent than his predecessor, not to mention Anglophobic, Wallace ends up prolonging World War II with his poor decisions. The American forces have to make do without General Patton, the D-day landing starts a year earlier...and fails miserably, Japan is invaded and [[BalkanizeMe split in two]], the Nazis launch a suicide attack on New York city (which is [[MonumentalDamage mostly]] a failure), and the war ends with ''six'' nuclear bombings in both Germany and Japan.

to:

* ''Literature/ForAllTime'' starts off with reasonable plausibility. FDR dies of a stroke just a few weeks after Pearl Harbor, leaving Henry Wallace in charge of the country. Far less competent than his predecessor, not to mention Anglophobic, Wallace ends up prolonging World War II with his poor decisions. The American forces have to make do without General Patton, the D-day landing starts a year earlier...and fails miserably, Japan is invaded and [[BalkanizeMe split in two]], the Nazis launch a suicide attack on New York city (which is [[MonumentalDamage mostly]] a failure), and the war ends with ''six'' nuclear bombings in both Germany and Japan.
Japan. After that, things go [[CrapsackWorld completely insane.]]
27th Jun '17 8:10:04 PM Mr.Bubbles
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

* ''Literature/ForAllTime'' starts off with reasonable plausibility. FDR dies of a stroke just a few weeks after Pearl Harbor, leaving Henry Wallace in charge of the country. Far less competent than his predecessor, not to mention Anglophobic, Wallace ends up prolonging World War II with his poor decisions. The American forces have to make do without General Patton, the D-day landing starts a year earlier...and fails miserably, Japan is invaded and [[BalkanizeMe split in two]], the Nazis launch a suicide attack on New York city (which is [[MonumentalDamage mostly]] a failure), and the war ends with ''six'' nuclear bombings in both Germany and Japan.
10th Jun '17 3:19:03 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* '''Type IV - Utterly Implausible AH:''' These are works that are so Soft that they melt. Works that are so implausible as to be effectively impossible and so Soft as to prove impossible to take as serious speculation. Works where research was so poor or ill-considered, [[AuthorFilibuster author politics so prevalent]], Butterflies so ignored, details (logistics, politics, etc.) so overlooked, often purposefully, that there's no way anyone with even a passing familiarity with the history can take it seriously. Infamously implausible scenarios like Operation Sealion [[note]]UsefulNotes/NaziGermany's plan to invade Britain during WorldWarII, which has been shown by the members of Website/AlternateHistoryDotCom (where it's become a MemeticMutation because of this) to be one of the worst military plans ever conceived -- it would have been a catastrophic defeat for Germany that would have effectively destroyed the Wehrmacht and allowed the Allies to win up to a year earlier.[[/note]] are often placed here, as are utterly implausible technology jumps, such as Aztecs developing breech loading rifles in 1420. Over-the-top ludicrous {{Alternate History Wank}}s are usually put here. One good "rule of thumb" is if a [=PoD=] necessary to make the outcome plausibly happen is so far in the past that Butterflies would negate the very events that created the setting (such as a [=PoD=] to give Hitler the fleet he needed to invade the UK would need to be before WWI, probably negating the rise of Nazism), then it may be a Type IV. ''Note:'' These works are often defined as AlienSpaceBats and in fact the original term "AlienSpaceBats" was coined to refer to these type of implausible works!

to:

* '''Type IV - Utterly Implausible AH:''' These are works that are so Soft that they melt. Works that are so implausible as to be effectively impossible and so Soft as to prove impossible to take as serious speculation. Works where research was so poor or ill-considered, [[AuthorFilibuster author politics so prevalent]], Butterflies so ignored, details (logistics, politics, etc.) so overlooked, often purposefully, that there's no way anyone with even a passing familiarity with the history can take it seriously. Infamously implausible scenarios like Operation Sealion [[note]]UsefulNotes/NaziGermany's plan to invade Britain during WorldWarII, UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, which has been shown by the members of Website/AlternateHistoryDotCom (where it's become a MemeticMutation because of this) to be one of the worst military plans ever conceived -- it would have been a catastrophic defeat for Germany that would have effectively destroyed the Wehrmacht and allowed the Allies to win up to a year earlier.[[/note]] are often placed here, as are utterly implausible technology jumps, such as Aztecs developing breech loading rifles in 1420. Over-the-top ludicrous {{Alternate History Wank}}s are usually put here. One good "rule of thumb" is if a [=PoD=] necessary to make the outcome plausibly happen is so far in the past that Butterflies would negate the very events that created the setting (such as a [=PoD=] to give Hitler the fleet he needed to invade the UK would need to be before WWI, probably negating the rise of Nazism), then it may be a Type IV. ''Note:'' These works are often defined as AlienSpaceBats and in fact the original term "AlienSpaceBats" was coined to refer to these type of implausible works!



* ''The Moscow Option'' by David Downing started with Downing wanting to find a way to have the Axis come as close to winning [[WorldWarTwo the war]] as possible, but still lose. To have them outperform their counterparts he usually engages in very realistic Type I style events, all propogating from two changes, one relating to Germany (Hitler is incapacitated for a time and stops interfering with his generals) and one to Japan (they realize the US has broken their code and create a new plan for Midway that exploits this fact). However, the success of Germany in particular stretches their logistical capacity and reserves to unlikely amounts and devalues those of their opponents to levels well-below those actually available. For all that it's still enough to been possible even though it's an extremely unlikely outcome.

to:

* ''The Moscow Option'' by David Downing started with Downing wanting to find a way to have the Axis come as close to winning [[WorldWarTwo [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII the war]] as possible, but still lose. To have them outperform their counterparts he usually engages in very realistic Type I style events, all propogating from two changes, one relating to Germany (Hitler is incapacitated for a time and stops interfering with his generals) and one to Japan (they realize the US has broken their code and create a new plan for Midway that exploits this fact). However, the success of Germany in particular stretches their logistical capacity and reserves to unlikely amounts and devalues those of their opponents to levels well-below those actually available. For all that it's still enough to been possible even though it's an extremely unlikely outcome.



* The Literature/ChaosTimeline. The butterfly effect is handwaved ("after a certain point, the same individuals won't occur as in our history, but we may coincidentally get similar people anyway"), and while the writer does his research and homework, he often makes assumptions that get him where he wants to go. For example, he wants a world war to occur, but the Great Powers are headquartered in different parts of the world and any conflict between land powers would be laughably one-sided; thus, the naval development of the world is far in advance of our own WorldWarII, allowing for the naval movement of millions of men all around the globe.

to:

* The Literature/ChaosTimeline. The butterfly effect is handwaved ("after a certain point, the same individuals won't occur as in our history, but we may coincidentally get similar people anyway"), and while the writer does his research and homework, he often makes assumptions that get him where he wants to go. For example, he wants a world war to occur, but the Great Powers are headquartered in different parts of the world and any conflict between land powers would be laughably one-sided; thus, the naval development of the world is far in advance of our own WorldWarII, UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, allowing for the naval movement of millions of men all around the globe.



* Creator/HarryHarrison's ''Stars and Stripes'' trilogy in which Britain allies with the Confederacy during the American Civil War. Begins as Type II but jumps into Type III territory when an accidental attack on a Confederate stronghold leads to Britain going to war with the Confederates and both North and South siding together against the common enemy: Britain. While the [=PoD=] is plausible enough (the Trent Affair could have ''possibly'' resulted in a war with Britain, although Harrison makes it seem like war was inevitable), the author then proceeds to indulge in pro-American fantasies. By the end of the trilogy, the re-unified nation has a WorldWarOne-level navy and ''tanks'' (powered by an engine that is impossible even by levels of technology long after the book was published).

to:

* Creator/HarryHarrison's ''Stars and Stripes'' trilogy in which Britain allies with the Confederacy during the American Civil War. Begins as Type II but jumps into Type III territory when an accidental attack on a Confederate stronghold leads to Britain going to war with the Confederates and both North and South siding together against the common enemy: Britain. While the [=PoD=] is plausible enough (the Trent Affair could have ''possibly'' resulted in a war with Britain, although Harrison makes it seem like war was inevitable), the author then proceeds to indulge in pro-American fantasies. By the end of the trilogy, the re-unified nation has a WorldWarOne-level UsefulNotes/WorldWarI-level navy and ''tanks'' (powered by an engine that is impossible even by levels of technology long after the book was published).



* ''VideoGame/CovertFront'' takes place in an alternate 1904 where WorldWarOne is already taking place. That's all we're given, and it's all we need for Mateusz Skutnik to tell a good spy story.

to:

* ''VideoGame/CovertFront'' takes place in an alternate 1904 where WorldWarOne UsefulNotes/WorldWarI is already taking place. That's all we're given, and it's all we need for Mateusz Skutnik to tell a good spy story.
18th Apr '17 7:14:21 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''Iskriget'' by Anders Blixt. This espionage adventure mixes hard sociology (by creating a credible alternative 20th century in which Britain had failed to reach ascendancy in the 18th century) by a RuleOfCool approach to technology (StudioGhibli-style cloudships and ice juggernauts) and geography (Antarctica and Australia are replaced by two more pulpish continents). However, the author's 1940s approach to racism and sexism is strictly Type I, TheProtagonist being a well-educated Euro-Indian man who encounters a lot of prejudice.

to:

* ''Iskriget'' by Anders Blixt. This espionage adventure mixes hard sociology (by creating a credible alternative 20th century in which Britain had failed to reach ascendancy in the 18th century) by a RuleOfCool approach to technology (StudioGhibli-style (Creator/StudioGhibli-style cloudships and ice juggernauts) and geography (Antarctica and Australia are replaced by two more pulpish continents). However, the author's 1940s approach to racism and sexism is strictly Type I, TheProtagonist being a well-educated Euro-Indian man who encounters a lot of prejudice.
10th Apr '17 8:29:33 PM Mr.Bubbles
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

* ''Film/EscapeFromNewYork'': In 1988, after the crime rate in the United States shot up by 400%, New York City was sealed behind a 50-foot containment wall and transformed into the one maximum security prison for the entire country. Sometime between then and 1997, WorldWarIII broke out, though apparently wasn't (or not completely) nuclear in nature; Snake is a veteran of both the Battles of Leningrad and Siberia.
5th Apr '17 11:18:26 PM PaulA
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* EricFlint's ''Literature/TrailOfGlory'' series starts off with an arrow that hit Sam Houston being a minor injury instead of the [[GroinAttack major one]] it was in RealLife, and follows through from there.

to:

* EricFlint's Creator/EricFlint's ''Literature/TrailOfGlory'' series starts off with an arrow that hit Sam Houston being a minor injury instead of the [[GroinAttack major one]] it was in RealLife, and follows through from there.
This list shows the last 10 events of 241. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.SlidingScaleOfAlternateHistoryPlausibility