History Main / SliceAndDiceSwordsmanship

16th Apr '18 5:12:33 PM TheBigBopper
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It can be [[JustifiedTrope justified]] if the wielder is untrained and defaults to swinging, either because striking and flailing come more naturally to an unskilled, panicked person, or because they're [[TheCoconutEffect trying to imitate]] what they saw in a movie. It can also be justified if a fighter who's trained in cut fencing but not in thrusting play can't help trying to use the unfamiliar weapon to perform their familiar moves, or if two characters are Flynning in-universe and not actually trying to hurt each other.

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It can be [[JustifiedTrope justified]] if the wielder is untrained and defaults to swinging, either because striking and flailing come more naturally to an unskilled, panicked person, or because they're [[TheCoconutEffect trying to imitate]] what they saw in a movie. It can also be justified if a fighter who's trained in cut fencing but not in thrusting play [[DamnYouMuscleMemory can't help trying to use use]] the unfamiliar weapon to perform their familiar moves, or if two characters are Flynning in-universe and not actually trying to hurt each other.
16th Apr '18 5:10:47 PM TheBigBopper
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It can be [[JustifiedTrope justified]] if the wielder is untrained and defaults to swinging, either because striking and flailing comes more naturally to an unskilled, panicked person, or because they're [[TheCoconutEffect trying to imitate]] what they saw in a movie. It can also be justified if a fighter who's trained in cut fencing but not in thrusting play can't help trying to use the unfamiliar weapon to perform their familiar moves, or if two characters are Flynning in-universe and not actually trying to hurt each other.

to:

It can be [[JustifiedTrope justified]] if the wielder is untrained and defaults to swinging, either because striking and flailing comes come more naturally to an unskilled, panicked person, or because they're [[TheCoconutEffect trying to imitate]] what they saw in a movie. It can also be justified if a fighter who's trained in cut fencing but not in thrusting play can't help trying to use the unfamiliar weapon to perform their familiar moves, or if two characters are Flynning in-universe and not actually trying to hurt each other.
16th Apr '18 5:07:38 PM TheBigBopper
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It can be [[JustifiedTrope justified]] if the wielder is untrained and defaults to swinging, either because striking and flailing comes more naturally to an unskilled, panicked person, or because they're [[TheCpconutEffect trying to imitate]] what they saw in a movie. It can also be justified if a fighter who's trained in cut fencing but not in thrusting play can't help trying to use the unfamiliar weapon to perform their familiar moves, or if two characters are Flynning in-universe and not actually trying to hurt each other.

to:

It can be [[JustifiedTrope justified]] if the wielder is untrained and defaults to swinging, either because striking and flailing comes more naturally to an unskilled, panicked person, or because they're [[TheCpconutEffect [[TheCoconutEffect trying to imitate]] what they saw in a movie. It can also be justified if a fighter who's trained in cut fencing but not in thrusting play can't help trying to use the unfamiliar weapon to perform their familiar moves, or if two characters are Flynning in-universe and not actually trying to hurt each other.
16th Apr '18 5:07:12 PM TheBigBopper
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Added DiffLines:

It can be [[JustifiedTrope justified]] if the wielder is untrained and defaults to swinging, either because striking and flailing comes more naturally to an unskilled, panicked person, or because they're [[TheCpconutEffect trying to imitate]] what they saw in a movie. It can also be justified if a fighter who's trained in cut fencing but not in thrusting play can't help trying to use the unfamiliar weapon to perform their familiar moves, or if two characters are Flynning in-universe and not actually trying to hurt each other.
16th Apr '18 2:16:35 PM Ambaryerno
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*** The pommel of the sword was heavy enough to serve as an impromptu mace or hammer, and some styles of fighting incorporated this as a finisher for armoured enemies known in English as the "Murder-Strike" ("Mordhau" or "Mordstreich" in its native German). It would be done by grabbing the sword by the tip of the blade with both hands and just swinging the thing to hit them with the guard or the hilt. Good thing they had armor [[SelfHarm on their hands]].

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*** The pommel of the sword was heavy enough to serve as an impromptu mace or hammer, and some styles of fighting incorporated this as a finisher for armoured enemies known in English as the "Murder-Strike" ("Mordhau" or "Mordstreich" in its native German). It would be done by grabbing the sword by the tip of the blade with both hands and just swinging the thing to hit them with the guard or the hilt. Good thing they had armor [[SelfHarm on their hands]].
16th Apr '18 1:35:02 PM ChaoticNovelist
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* Averted by ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons 3.5'', which specifically classed weapons as piercing, slashing or bludgeoning. This came into effect when you faced an enemy that had Damage Reduction against a certain type of attack. Ever tried to stab a skeleton? (4th Edition has no such classification, mainly as part of its campaign to make things simpler.)
** Much OlderThanTheyThink; this has been part of the game since its earliest days. Monster descriptions included resistances to particular weapon types and optional rules altered the effectiveness of armor based on the type of weapon used. For example, mail was less effective against bashing and more effective against cutting weapons.

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* Averted by ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons 3.5'', which specifically classed weapons as piercing, slashing or bludgeoning. This came into effect when you faced an enemy that had Damage Reduction against a certain type of attack. Ever tried to stab a skeleton? (4th Edition has no such classification, mainly as part of its campaign to make things simpler.)
** Much OlderThanTheyThink; this
has been part of the game since averting this trope its earliest days. Monster descriptions included resistances to particular weapon types and optional rules altered the effectiveness of armor based on the type of weapon used. For example, mail was less effective against bashing and more effective against cutting weapons. Specifically in 3.5'', weapons were classed as piercing, slashing or bludgeoning. This came into effect when you faced an enemy that had Damage Reduction against a certain type of attack. Ever tried to stab a skeleton? 4th Edition, however, removed this particular mechanic, mainly as part of its campaign to make things simpler.



* Characters in ''VideoGame/NeverwinterNights2'' will happily slash away with rapiers.
** As will they if they use the monkey grip feat to wield a spear one handed

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* Characters in ''VideoGame/NeverwinterNights2'' will happily slash away with rapiers.
**
rapiers. As will they if they use the monkey grip feat to wield a spear one handed
27th Feb '18 1:08:04 PM Rytex
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Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Literature]]

* In Christopher Paolini's ''Literature/TheInheritanceCycle'', Eragon at one point is offered a sword called Támerlein to replace Zar'roc, which was taken from him. He opts not to take it, noting that where Brom and Oromis taught him a thrust-heavy and more agile and elegant style, Támerlein was crafted for someone whose style relied heavily on cutting and slashing.
* The page quote comes from ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire''. Syrio Forel, [[TheRedBaron the First Sword of Braavos]], looks down on the Westerosi style of combat, which is very rigid and hack'n'slash-heavy, in favor of a more agile and elegant style known as the Braavosi Water Dance.

[[/folder]]
14th Jan '18 2:27:05 PM TheBigBopper
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The reasons for this are largely the same as for {{Flynning}}. Cutting motions tend to be showier and easier for the audience to follow than thrusts. There is also much more danger of accidents in live-action choreography when thrusting is involved, since the actors are usually doing it without the kinds of hand and face protection that are mandatory in fencing practice. Even the tips of dull or foiled blades can puncture such delicate body parts with relatively little force because the pressure is concentrated in a small area (which also makes it able to slip into narrow spaces such as the eye socket), and the way that the body and sword line up for a thrust creates a tendency toward InertialImpalement. Striking an unprotected body part with a dull edge can also injure, but the blunt force is spread over a wider area, while the blade and wrist have more freedom to give way to the oncoming body. Since an exchange of cuts and parries can be made to look quite energetic to the audience while actually carrying little risk of real injury, choreographers consider it both safer and more entertaining than trying to simulate the way these weapons were used historically.

to:

The reasons for this are largely the same as for {{Flynning}}. Cutting motions tend to be showier and easier for the audience to follow than thrusts. There is also much more danger of accidents in live-action choreography when thrusting is involved, since the actors are usually doing it without the kinds of hand and face protection that are mandatory in fencing practice. Even the tips of dull or foiled blades can puncture such delicate body parts with relatively little force because the pressure is concentrated in a small area (which also makes it able to slip into narrow spaces such as the eye socket), and the way that the body and sword line up for a thrust creates a tendency toward InertialImpalement. Striking an unprotected body part with a dull edge can also injure, but the blunt force is spread over a wider area, while the blade and wrist have more freedom to give way to the oncoming body. Furthermore, it's easier to redirect the force and targeting of your cut so that it can be safely parried while still looking like a serious strike to the audience, while you can't really make a "fake" thrust look convincing without introducing some real danger. Since an exchange of cuts and parries can be made to look quite energetic to the audience while actually carrying little risk of real injury, choreographers consider it both safer and more entertaining than trying to simulate the way these weapons were used historically.
14th Jan '18 2:21:32 PM TheBigBopper
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The reasons for this are largely the same as for {{Flynning}}. Cutting motions tend to be showier and easier for the audience to follow than thrusts. There is also much more danger of accidents in choreography with live actors when thrusting is involved, since they are usually doing it without armor or face protection and even the tips of dull or foiled blades can puncture with relatively little force. Since an exchange of cuts and parries can be made to look quite energetic to the audience while actually carrying little risk of real injury, choreographers consider it both safer and more entertaining than trying to simulate the way these weapons were used historically.

Cutting occasionally with a thrusting weapon does not necessarily fall under this trope: for example, rapiers had sharp edges and fencers we taught to cut in response to certain tactical situations, despite the thrust remaining the primary means of attack. Spears could also be used for swinging attacks, especially when outside of formation fighting. This trope kicks in when a character seems to prefer cutting to thrusting despite the weapon encouraging the opposite, and especially when the weapon is shown to be more effective at cutting than it would be in real life.

to:

The reasons for this are largely the same as for {{Flynning}}. Cutting motions tend to be showier and easier for the audience to follow than thrusts. There is also much more danger of accidents in live-action choreography with live actors when thrusting is involved, since they the actors are usually doing it without armor or the kinds of hand and face protection and even that are mandatory in fencing practice. Even the tips of dull or foiled blades can puncture such delicate body parts with relatively little force.force because the pressure is concentrated in a small area (which also makes it able to slip into narrow spaces such as the eye socket), and the way that the body and sword line up for a thrust creates a tendency toward InertialImpalement. Striking an unprotected body part with a dull edge can also injure, but the blunt force is spread over a wider area, while the blade and wrist have more freedom to give way to the oncoming body. Since an exchange of cuts and parries can be made to look quite energetic to the audience while actually carrying little risk of real injury, choreographers consider it both safer and more entertaining than trying to simulate the way these weapons were used historically.

Cutting occasionally with a thrusting weapon does not necessarily fall under this trope: for example, rapiers had sharp edges and fencers we taught to cut in response to certain tactical situations, despite the thrust remaining the primary means of attack. Spears could also be used for swinging attacks, especially when outside of formation fighting. This trope kicks in when a character seems to prefer ''prefer'' cutting to over thrusting despite the weapon design encouraging the opposite, and especially when the weapon is shown to be more effective at cutting than it would be in real life.
14th Jan '18 12:15:24 PM nombretomado
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* Homard the air pirate from ''LaPucelle: Tactics'' fights with two rapiers. These are primarily thrusting weapons, but more often than not he uses them to slash.

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* Homard the air pirate from ''LaPucelle: Tactics'' ''VideoGame/LaPucelleTactics'' fights with two rapiers. These are primarily thrusting weapons, but more often than not he uses them to slash.
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