History Main / SeeTheWhitesOfTheirEyes

6th Mar '18 1:41:47 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* The longest-ranged anticapital gun in the later ''[[[VideoGame/{{X}} X-Universe]]'' games [[ArbitraryMaximumRange fades out]] at 6.62 km. Factor in, that's only two to three times longer than the ''ship'' is, and that the effective range (i.e. where a moving target is likely to avoid it) is often a kilometer or so shorter. Averted with missile frigates, however, whose MacrossMissileMassacre can blow away targets from nearly 80 kilometers away (though effective range is closer to 30 km because of sensor range limitations, unless you have another ship [[TargetSpotter acting as a spotter]]). Weapon ranges remain equally pathetic in ''Videogame/XRebirth'', where the Plasma/JET LR DeathRay on the Olmekron has a range shorter than ship it's mounted on.

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* The longest-ranged anticapital gun in the later ''[[[VideoGame/{{X}} ''[[VideoGame/{{X}} X-Universe]]'' games [[ArbitraryMaximumRange fades out]] at 6.62 km. Factor in, that's only two to three times longer than the ''ship'' is, and that the effective range (i.e. where a moving target is likely to avoid it) is often a kilometer or so shorter. Averted with missile frigates, however, whose MacrossMissileMassacre can blow away targets from nearly 80 kilometers away (though effective range is closer to 30 km because of sensor range limitations, unless you have another ship [[TargetSpotter acting as a spotter]]). Weapon ranges remain equally pathetic in ''Videogame/XRebirth'', where the Plasma/JET LR DeathRay on the Olmekron has a range shorter than ship it's mounted on.
6th Mar '18 1:40:35 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* ''Webcomic/DarthsandDroids'' pokes fun at this in [[http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0964.html one strip]], where the transports are ordered to fly DIRECTLY at the Star Destroyers, because their weapons are calibrated to aim at targets at "ultra long range," not right next to the ship. Before they can readjust their weapons, the transport is gone.

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* ''Webcomic/DarthsandDroids'' ''Webcomic/DarthsAndDroids'' pokes fun at this in [[http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0964.html one strip]], where the transports are ordered to fly DIRECTLY at the Star Destroyers, because their weapons are calibrated to aim at targets at "ultra long range," not right next to the ship. Before they can readjust their weapons, the transport is gone.
6th Mar '18 1:39:31 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* Justified in SOME Franchise/{{Gundam}} series, where the use of [[MinovskyPhysics Minovsky Particle]] makes using radar difficult to impossible. Indeed, they interfere with ''all'' electro-magnetic phenomenon, and at extreme ranges, even interfered with visual light. Note that this didn't exactly mean the Federation and Zeon fleets were fighting at knife-point -- "Visual range" is a ''long'' ways in empty space. It was mostly the [[HumonousMecha Mobile Suits]] that got in everyone's faces.

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* Justified in SOME Franchise/{{Gundam}} series, where the use of [[MinovskyPhysics Minovsky Particle]] makes using radar difficult to impossible. Indeed, they interfere with ''all'' electro-magnetic phenomenon, and at extreme ranges, even interfered with visual light. Note that this didn't exactly mean the Federation and Zeon fleets were fighting at knife-point -- "Visual range" is a ''long'' ways in empty space. It was mostly the [[HumonousMecha [[HumongousMecha Mobile Suits]] that got in everyone's faces.
26th Jan '18 11:31:30 PM Peteman
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* Averting this trope probably isn't much [[RuleOfCool fun]] to watch, as a battle between starships where the enemy ship isn't blown up right before your eyes can be a bit dull. In the ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' episode "The Wounded", two ships fire at each other at a range of over 100,000 kilometers. The characters watch the exchange on a screen with little symbols representing the ships and the shots. The fight is, needless to say, quite boring. ''Andromeda'' uses this and gets around it somewhat by showing the eventual collision of the missiles with the ship (sometimes. Other times, the dot representing the other ship just disappears), or just showing the battle if they're close enough for Anti-Proton blasts (less than 5 light seconds away, usually).

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* Averting this trope probably isn't much [[RuleOfCool fun]] to watch, watch in a visual medium, as a battle between starships where the enemy ship isn't blown up right before your eyes can be a bit dull. In the ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' episode "The Wounded", two ships fire at each other at a range of over 100,000 kilometers. The characters watch the exchange on a screen with little symbols representing the ships and the shots. The fight is, needless to say, quite boring. ''Andromeda'' uses this and gets around it somewhat by showing the eventual collision of the missiles with the ship (sometimes. Other times, the dot representing the other ship just disappears), or just showing the battle if they're close enough for Anti-Proton blasts (less than 5 light seconds away, usually). Books have an easier time averting this due to the nature of the medium.
12th Oct '17 8:51:48 PM PaulA
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* Completely averted in Creator/LarryNiven's ''Literature/KnownSpace'' novel "Protector", in which Elroy Truesdale and the Brennan-Monster fight a battle against a small fleet of Pak scout ships, and the distances are so great that Truesdale and Brennan don't find out they've won for close to a month.

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* Completely averted in Creator/LarryNiven's ''Literature/KnownSpace'' novel "Protector", ''Literature/{{Protector}}'', in which Elroy Truesdale and the Brennan-Monster fight a battle against a small fleet of Pak scout ships, and the distances are so great that Truesdale and Brennan don't find out they've won for close to a month.
7th Aug '17 1:37:44 PM trixus
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Added DiffLines:

* ''ComicBook/LuckyLuke'' parodies it with the Cavalry leader asking his men to not shoot the attacking Indian until they see the whites of their eyes. They all stop out of range safe one Indian that still doesn't get shot because the cavalrymen can't see the whites of his eyes.
-->'''Indian 1:''' What are you doing you're too far.
-->'''Indian 2:''' Sorry my eyes are all red with this dust.
15th Jul '17 10:25:31 AM nombretomado
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* During [[WorldWarII The Battle Off Samar]] (the most famous DavidVersusGoliath battle in the history of the United States Navy or any other navy for that matter), a [[CannonFodder Destroyer Escort]] by the name of ''Samuel B. Roberts'', managed to maneuver in close enough to the Japanese heavy cruiser ''Chōkai'' so that the Japanese gunners couldn't shoot back because their guns were unable to aim so low, while the Americans fired into them with 5 inch guns and AntiAir cannons. ''Samuel B. Roberts'' managed to cripple two Heavy Cruisers before being fatally wounded by the Japanese battleship ''Kōngo'' and would go on to be known as "[[PintsizedPowerhouse The Destroyer Escort that fought like a Battleship.]]"

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* During [[WorldWarII [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII The Battle Off Samar]] (the most famous DavidVersusGoliath battle in the history of the United States Navy or any other navy for that matter), a [[CannonFodder Destroyer Escort]] by the name of ''Samuel B. Roberts'', managed to maneuver in close enough to the Japanese heavy cruiser ''Chōkai'' so that the Japanese gunners couldn't shoot back because their guns were unable to aim so low, while the Americans fired into them with 5 inch guns and AntiAir cannons. ''Samuel B. Roberts'' managed to cripple two Heavy Cruisers before being fatally wounded by the Japanese battleship ''Kōngo'' and would go on to be known as "[[PintsizedPowerhouse The Destroyer Escort that fought like a Battleship.]]"
27th May '17 12:19:48 PM nombretomado
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* During TheVietnamWar, American jets carries carried the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-7_Sparrow Sparrow missile]] which was designed to shoot down Russian bombers ''beyond visual range''. Unfortunately, due to [[ObstructiveCodeOfConduct rules of engagement]], commanders instructed fighter pilots to only fire on a hostile aircraft after ''visual'' identification , completely negating the technological advantage of the long range missile. The missiles were completely ill suited for tracking maneuvering targets in a dogfight and achieved a kill rate of under 10%.

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* During TheVietnamWar, UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar, American jets carries carried the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-7_Sparrow Sparrow missile]] which was designed to shoot down Russian bombers ''beyond visual range''. Unfortunately, due to [[ObstructiveCodeOfConduct rules of engagement]], commanders instructed fighter pilots to only fire on a hostile aircraft after ''visual'' identification , completely negating the technological advantage of the long range missile. The missiles were completely ill suited for tracking maneuvering targets in a dogfight and achieved a kill rate of under 10%.
16th Mar '17 12:53:35 AM ImpudentInfidel
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* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', even the biggest artillery units have a maximum range which is, to scale, ''several hundred meters''. By contrast, in ''Battlefleet Gothic'', a space combat game set in the same universe, the main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters (although depictions in [[FlavorText the text]] have them fighting at much smaller ranges).

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* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', even the biggest artillery units have a maximum range which is, to scale, ''several hundred meters''. Later books addressed this by giving artillery units ranges fully capable of targeting another table in the next room. By contrast, in ''Battlefleet Gothic'', a space combat game set in the same universe, the main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters (although depictions in [[FlavorText the text]] have them fighting at much smaller ranges).
5th Oct '16 10:11:27 PM StarSword
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* Largely averted in the ''Lensman'' series, where "beams" are used for long-range combat and ships have "tractor beams" to pull the enemy in close so that physical missiles don't take forever to get there (even so, it's still described as taking quite a while for the missiles to cross the gap, and only the fact that the other ship ''can't move'' allow them to actually hit it). Smith was also fully aware that space has three dimensions. Fairly early on, the enemy develops "tractor shears" that allow them to cut a tractor beam and get away from heavier and more powerful but slower ships; the response is a technique called "englobement", where you surround them in three dimensions and use ''pressor'' beams from multiple ships to hold them in the center while you temporarily turn said center into the heart of a star.

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* Largely averted in the ''Lensman'' ''Literature/{{Lensman}}'' series, where "beams" are used for long-range combat and ships have "tractor beams" to pull the enemy in close so that physical missiles don't take forever to get there (even so, it's still described as taking quite a while for the missiles to cross the gap, and only the fact that the other ship ''can't move'' allow them to actually hit it). Smith was also fully aware that space has three dimensions. Fairly early on, the enemy develops "tractor shears" that allow them to cut a tractor beam and get away from heavier and more powerful but slower ships; the response is a technique called "englobement", where you surround them in three dimensions and use ''pressor'' beams from multiple ships to hold them in the center while you temporarily turn said center into the heart of a star.




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* {{Justified}} in ''Literature/AlexisCarew''. The energy-dampening effects of [[SubspaceOrHyperspace darkspace]], where most combat in the series takes place, and the price of the {{Unobtainium}} that counters it, mean that the StandardStarshipScuffle ''has'' to take place within visual range, [[WoodenShipsAndIronMen with hand-loaded single-charge laser cannons aimed with the Mark I Eyeball]].



* Played straight in all [[StargateVerse Stargate series]].

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* Played straight in all [[StargateVerse [[Franchise/StargateVerse Stargate series]].
series]]: fights between ships invariably happen within visual range.



* Averted in ''Star Fleet Battles'', the tactical tabletop adaptation of ship-to-ship combat in the ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'' universe. Hexes represent an area of space 10,000 kilometers wide, and most combat takes place with several hexes separating the two forces.

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* Averted in ''Star Fleet Battles'', ''TabletopGame/StarFleetBattles'', the tactical tabletop adaptation of ship-to-ship combat in the ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'' universe. Hexes represent an area of space 10,000 kilometers wide, and most combat takes place with several hexes separating the two forces.



* ''Homeworld'', the computer game, where your capital ships, whilst equipped with point defense weaponry, cannot target an enemy ship visible on radar tracking, which is out of visual range.

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* ''Homeworld'', ''VideoGame/{{Homeworld}}'', the computer game, where your capital ships, whilst equipped with point defense weaponry, cannot target an enemy ship visible on radar tracking, which is out of visual range.



* ''SwordOfTheStars'' can go from BVR combat where the enemies are only visible through the sensor display to close-in fighting where ships maneuver around each other. According to WordOfGod, though, this is merely an abstraction for the players' convenience. Everything actually takes place at stellar ranges and even "knife fights" with small mount weapons don't actually take place in WVR. The sequel will further avert this as weapon ranges will now exceed sensor ranges, requiring the use of battle riders as scouts/spotters.

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* ''SwordOfTheStars'' ''VideoGame/SwordOfTheStars'' can go from BVR combat where the enemies are only visible through the sensor display to close-in fighting where ships maneuver around each other. According to WordOfGod, though, this is merely an abstraction for the players' convenience. Everything actually takes place at stellar ranges and even "knife fights" with small mount weapons don't actually take place in WVR. The sequel will further avert this as weapon ranges will now exceed sensor ranges, requiring the use of battle riders as scouts/spotters.



* The longest-ranged anticapital gun in the later ''[[[VideoGame/{{X}} X-Universe]]'' games [[ArbitraryMaximumRange fades out]] at 6.62 km. Factor in, that's only two to three times longer than the ''ship'' is, and that the effective range is often a kilometer or so shorter. Averted with missile frigates, however, whose MacrossMissileMassacre can blow away targets from nearly 80 kilometers away (though effective range is closer to 30 km because of sensor range limitations, unless you have another ship [[TargetSpotter acting as a spotter]]). Weapon ranges remain equally pathetic in ''Videogame/XRebirth'', where the Plasma/JET LR DeathRay on the Olmekron has a range shorter than ship it's mounted on
* In ''SinsOfASolarEmpire'', highly-advanced ships must close to within spitting distance of one another to fight. This is further enforced by the fact that ships can only fight within the same gravity well, which doesn't go very far beyond planetary orbit. The only weapons that can go beyond that are considered superweapons and can only target planets.

to:

* The longest-ranged anticapital gun in the later ''[[[VideoGame/{{X}} X-Universe]]'' games [[ArbitraryMaximumRange fades out]] at 6.62 km. Factor in, that's only two to three times longer than the ''ship'' is, and that the effective range (i.e. where a moving target is likely to avoid it) is often a kilometer or so shorter. Averted with missile frigates, however, whose MacrossMissileMassacre can blow away targets from nearly 80 kilometers away (though effective range is closer to 30 km because of sensor range limitations, unless you have another ship [[TargetSpotter acting as a spotter]]). Weapon ranges remain equally pathetic in ''Videogame/XRebirth'', where the Plasma/JET LR DeathRay on the Olmekron has a range shorter than ship it's mounted on
on.
* In ''SinsOfASolarEmpire'', ''VideoGame/SinsOfASolarEmpire'', highly-advanced ships must close to within spitting distance of one another to fight. This is further enforced by the fact that ships can only fight within the same gravity well, which doesn't go very far beyond planetary orbit. The only weapons that can go beyond that are considered superweapons and can only target planets.
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