History Main / SciFiGhetto

1st May '16 5:22:45 AM erforce
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*** A term NewerThanTheyThink: Bruce Bethke coined the name in a short story from 1980, but it wouldn't be published in 1983 and not receive widespread use until the release of ''Literature/{{Neuromancer}}'' that came out in the same year as TheTerminator.

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*** A term NewerThanTheyThink: Bruce Bethke coined the name in a short story from 1980, but it wouldn't be published in 1983 and not receive widespread use until the release of ''Literature/{{Neuromancer}}'' that came out in the same year as TheTerminator.''Film/TheTerminator''.
24th Apr '16 6:09:01 PM aye_amber
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* TheWestern also long suffered from this kind of effect, even during its heyday in the '40s and '50s. This is demonstrated by the way many critics wrote that ''Film/HighNoon'' was "more than a Western" or movie histories that proceeded from the belief that the {{Spaghetti Western}}s of the mid-1960 were the first ones to revise and deconstruct the genre, apparently unaware that e. g. ''Film/TheSearchers'' (1956) even existed, quite possibly because it was directed by genre veteran Creator/JohnFord. It's notable too that only three Westerns have ever won the Oscar for Best Picture.[[note]]''Film/{{Cimarron}}'', ''Film/DancesWithWolves'' and ''Film/{{Unforgiven}}'', for the record. Note the sixty year gap between the first two.[[/note]]Even Spaghetti Westerns were VindicatedByHistory, both for their enduring popularity and influence on pop culture. Roger Ebert reviewed ''TheGoodTheBadAndTheUgly'' as one of his first films and gave it three stars and admitted when he put it on his Great Movies list that the movie was a four star film and that the only reason he had given it 3 stars back in his original review was that a four star review would have been too unexpected at the time.

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* TheWestern also long suffered from this kind of effect, even during its heyday in the '40s and '50s. This is demonstrated by the way many critics wrote that ''Film/HighNoon'' was "more than a Western" or movie histories that proceeded from the belief that the {{Spaghetti Western}}s of the mid-1960 were the first ones to revise and deconstruct the genre, apparently unaware that e. g. ''Film/TheSearchers'' (1956) even existed, quite possibly because it was directed by genre veteran Creator/JohnFord. It's notable too that only three Westerns have ever won the Oscar for Best Picture.[[note]]''Film/{{Cimarron}}'', ''Film/DancesWithWolves'' and ''Film/{{Unforgiven}}'', for the record. Note the sixty year gap between the first two.[[/note]]Even Spaghetti Westerns were VindicatedByHistory, both for their enduring popularity and influence on pop culture. Roger Ebert reviewed ''TheGoodTheBadAndTheUgly'' ''Film/TheGoodTheBadAndTheUgly'' as one of his first films and gave it three stars and admitted when he put it on his Great Movies list that the movie was a four star film and that the only reason he had given it 3 stars back in his original review was that a four star review would have been too unexpected at the time.
22nd Apr '16 8:42:49 PM Doug86
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* Complaints about [[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheKingdomOfTheCrystalSkull the fourth]] ''Franchise/IndianaJones'' film often revolve around people being unable to accept aliens in Indy, despite them not being any less plausible than the radioactive [[Film/RaidersOfTheLostArk Ark of the Covenant]], [[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheTempleOfDoom Indian dark magic]] or the ''frigging [[Film/Film/IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade Holy Grail]]'' in the previous films. This is because religion-induced magic and SF-induced magic are worlds apart by fandom and by shelving. It could also be about the ''inconsistency''. For many people, the presence of the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail are definitive proof that the Abrahamic God actually exists in Indy's universe. It is therefore presumed that interdimensional aliens would not be ''allowed'' to turn up and start teaching primitive humans advanced knowledge, less still to induce said primitives to ''worship'' them. (NoSuchThingAsSpaceJesus.) Of course, you could equally argue that a) advanced aliens are a means to an end for God, or b) the Ark and the Grail are in fact [[AncientAstronauts technological artifacts crafted by said aliens]], not divine artifacts.

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* Complaints about [[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheKingdomOfTheCrystalSkull the fourth]] ''Franchise/IndianaJones'' film often revolve around people being unable to accept aliens in Indy, despite them not being any less plausible than the radioactive [[Film/RaidersOfTheLostArk Ark of the Covenant]], [[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheTempleOfDoom Indian dark magic]] or the ''frigging [[Film/Film/IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade [[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade Holy Grail]]'' in the previous films. This is because religion-induced magic and SF-induced magic are worlds apart by fandom and by shelving. It could also be about the ''inconsistency''. For many people, the presence of the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail are definitive proof that the Abrahamic God actually exists in Indy's universe. It is therefore presumed that interdimensional aliens would not be ''allowed'' to turn up and start teaching primitive humans advanced knowledge, less still to induce said primitives to ''worship'' them. (NoSuchThingAsSpaceJesus.) Of course, you could equally argue that a) advanced aliens are a means to an end for God, or b) the Ark and the Grail are in fact [[AncientAstronauts technological artifacts crafted by said aliens]], not divine artifacts.



** Also consider that the [[Film/Film/IndianaJonesAndTheTempleOfDoom second movie]] validates Hinduism. So it's really more of a FantasyKitchenSink.
** There's also the fact that in real life, ''many'' people have pretended to be gods (many cult leaders, for example, but also many ancient rulers) or honestly believed themselves to be descended from gods (for example, AlexanderTheGreat believed he was descended from Hercules and Zeus, while the Japanese royal family believe themselves to be the descendants of Amaterasu). God hasn't directly intervened to put a stop to that, so why would He be any more likely to step in and prevent aliens from claiming they're gods?

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** Also consider that the [[Film/Film/IndianaJonesAndTheTempleOfDoom [[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheTempleOfDoom second movie]] validates Hinduism. So it's really more of a FantasyKitchenSink.
** There's also the fact that in real life, ''many'' people have pretended to be gods (many cult leaders, for example, but also many ancient rulers) or honestly believed themselves to be descended from gods (for example, AlexanderTheGreat UsefulNotes/AlexanderTheGreat believed he was descended from Hercules and Zeus, while the Japanese royal family believe themselves to be the descendants of Amaterasu). God hasn't directly intervened to put a stop to that, so why would He be any more likely to step in and prevent aliens from claiming they're gods?
19th Apr '16 12:16:31 AM erforce
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* Complaints about [[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheKingdomOfTheCrystalSkull the latest]] ''Franchise/IndianaJones'' film often revolve around people being unable to accept aliens in Indy, despite them not being any less plausible than the radioactive [[Film/RaidersOfTheLostArk Ark of the Covenant]], [[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheTempleOfDoom Indian dark magic]] or the ''frigging [[Film/TheLastCrusade Holy Grail]]'' in the previous films. This is because religion-induced magic and SF-induced magic are worlds apart by fandom and by shelving. It could also be about the ''inconsistency''. For many people, the presence of the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail are definitive proof that the Abrahamic God actually exists in Indy's universe. It is therefore presumed that interdimensional aliens would not be ''allowed'' to turn up and start teaching primitive humans advanced knowledge, less still to induce said primitives to ''worship'' them. (NoSuchThingAsSpaceJesus.) Of course, you could equally argue that a) advanced aliens are a means to an end for God, or b) the Ark and the Grail are in fact [[AncientAstronauts technological artifacts crafted by said aliens]], not divine artifacts.
** Indeed, Frank Darabont's original script for ''Crystal Skull'' alluded to the idea that aliens were responsible for human religions.
** Also consider that the [[Film/TempleOfDoom second movie]] validates Hinduism. So it's really more of a FantasyKitchenSink.

to:

* Complaints about [[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheKingdomOfTheCrystalSkull the latest]] fourth]] ''Franchise/IndianaJones'' film often revolve around people being unable to accept aliens in Indy, despite them not being any less plausible than the radioactive [[Film/RaidersOfTheLostArk Ark of the Covenant]], [[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheTempleOfDoom Indian dark magic]] or the ''frigging [[Film/TheLastCrusade [[Film/Film/IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade Holy Grail]]'' in the previous films. This is because religion-induced magic and SF-induced magic are worlds apart by fandom and by shelving. It could also be about the ''inconsistency''. For many people, the presence of the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail are definitive proof that the Abrahamic God actually exists in Indy's universe. It is therefore presumed that interdimensional aliens would not be ''allowed'' to turn up and start teaching primitive humans advanced knowledge, less still to induce said primitives to ''worship'' them. (NoSuchThingAsSpaceJesus.) Of course, you could equally argue that a) advanced aliens are a means to an end for God, or b) the Ark and the Grail are in fact [[AncientAstronauts technological artifacts crafted by said aliens]], not divine artifacts.
** Indeed, Frank Darabont's original script for ''Crystal Skull'' ''[[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheKingdomOfTheCrystalSkull Crystal Skull]]'' alluded to the idea that aliens were responsible for human religions.
** Also consider that the [[Film/TempleOfDoom [[Film/Film/IndianaJonesAndTheTempleOfDoom second movie]] validates Hinduism. So it's really more of a FantasyKitchenSink.
7th Apr '16 4:02:44 PM PeppermintTwist
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* Marjorie B. Kellogg wrote a forward to an omnibus edition of her ''Literature/TheDragonQuartet'' series utterly blasting this trope. She points out that tales of the fantastic are one of humanity's oldest forms of storytelling, and the power of allegory that "genre" fiction holds make them not only more easy to appeal to a wide audience, but make the audience [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped more willing to listen to important messages.]]
1st Apr '16 4:56:16 PM MarkLungo
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** For the sake of balance, ''Film/AnnieHall'' is an excellent film in its own right, though it does not have the popular appeal of ''Franchise/StarWars''. Another example was at the 53rd Academy Awards in '81, where ''Film/TheEmpireStrikesBack'' wasn't even nominated for Best Picture, which was won by ''Ordinary People''[[note]]Which also beat out ''Film/RagingBull'' and ''Film/TheElephantMan''[[/note]], a fact [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial that totally had nothing to do with the Academy's love of Robert Redford.]] Interestingly, some have actually accused the Academy of dumbing down for ''daring'' to award Best Picture to films such as ''Film/{{Braveheart}}'' and ''Film/ForrestGump'', which, whilst not fantasy, were considered too "moneymaking" "crowd-pleasing" (read: "plebeian") for the Oscars.

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** For the sake of balance, ''Film/AnnieHall'' is an excellent film in its own right, though it does not have the popular appeal of ''Franchise/StarWars''. Another example was at the 53rd Academy Awards in '81, where ''Film/TheEmpireStrikesBack'' wasn't even nominated for Best Picture, which was won by ''Ordinary People''[[note]]Which ''Literature/OrdinaryPeople''[[note]]Which also beat out ''Film/RagingBull'' and ''Film/TheElephantMan''[[/note]], a fact [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial that totally had nothing to do with the Academy's love of Robert Redford.]] Interestingly, some have actually accused the Academy of dumbing down for ''daring'' to award Best Picture to films such as ''Film/{{Braveheart}}'' and ''Film/ForrestGump'', which, whilst not fantasy, were considered too "moneymaking" "crowd-pleasing" (read: "plebeian") for the Oscars.
26th Mar '16 8:23:46 AM VoxAquila
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** The ghetto probably contributed to the belief by everyone involved in the production (even Creator/GeorgeLucas) that the original film would flop; in the midst of the NewHollywood era, it was assumed audiences wanted to see [[TrueArtIsAngsty mature films about mature subjects]], not some silly SpaceOpera fluff.
24th Mar '16 4:12:01 PM nombretomado
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*** The SciFiGhetto is part of why DoctorWho got cancelled in the first place back in the 80's: BBC controller Michael Grade not only loathed the science fiction genre but also [[FanHater its fans]], and did everything in his power to get DoctorWho cancelled so the BBC could focus more on dramas. This included slashing the budget and episode count, putting the show on hiatus for 18 months, firing ColinBaker, and scheduling DoctorWho against CoronationStreet so it would get crushed in the ratings. Unfortunately for him, the Queen is a massive DoctorWho fan, so [[LaserGuidedKarma he remains the only BBC controller who's never been knighted]].

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*** The SciFiGhetto is part of why DoctorWho ''Doctor Who'' got cancelled in the first place back in the 80's: BBC controller Michael Grade not only loathed the science fiction genre but also [[FanHater its fans]], and did everything in his power to get DoctorWho ''Doctor Who'' cancelled so the BBC could focus more on dramas. This included slashing the budget and episode count, putting the show on hiatus for 18 months, firing ColinBaker, and scheduling DoctorWho ''Doctor Who'' against CoronationStreet ''Series/CoronationStreet'' so it would get crushed in the ratings. Unfortunately for him, the Queen is a massive DoctorWho ''Doctor Who'' fan, so [[LaserGuidedKarma he remains the only BBC controller who's never been knighted]].
18th Mar '16 1:08:30 AM VanHohenheimOfXerxes
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* Props to Creator/StanleyKubrick for breaking out of the ghetto. ''Film/TheShining'' is a horror movie based on a Creator/StephenKing novel (and yeah, the existence of the ghosts is left [[MaybeMagicMaybeMundane ambiguous]], but the PsychicPowers are certainly there). ''Film/AClockworkOrange'' is set in a {{dystopia}}n future London where the fashion and architecture are futuristic and the law enforcement system uses TheLudovicoTechnique; and ''Film/TwoThousandOneASpaceOdyssey'' is a collaboration with Creator/ArthurCClarke dealing with [[AIIsACrapshoot a killer AI]], SufficientlyAdvancedAliens, and a surreal MindScrew royale at the [[GainaxEnding end]] ([[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking oh, and]] the people wear [[SpaceClothes funky futuristic clothes]] here too). All of these movies, particularly the latter two, are considered some of the greatest movies of all time. Even ''Film/DrStrangelove'' is borderline science fiction -- a prediction of the future, featuring a MadScientist and his DoomsdayDevice, and ending with an apocalypse -- and it's considered one of the greatest movies of all time too!

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* Props to Creator/StanleyKubrick for breaking out of the ghetto. ''Film/TheShining'' is a horror movie based on a Creator/StephenKing novel (and yeah, the existence of the ghosts is left [[MaybeMagicMaybeMundane ambiguous]], but the PsychicPowers are certainly there). there); ''Film/AClockworkOrange'' is set in a {{dystopia}}n future London where the fashion and architecture are futuristic and the law enforcement system uses TheLudovicoTechnique; and ''Film/TwoThousandOneASpaceOdyssey'' is a collaboration with Creator/ArthurCClarke dealing with [[AIIsACrapshoot a killer AI]], SufficientlyAdvancedAliens, and a surreal MindScrew royale at the [[GainaxEnding end]] ([[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking oh, and]] the people wear [[SpaceClothes funky futuristic clothes]] here too). All of these movies, particularly the latter two, are considered some of the greatest movies of all time. Even ''Film/DrStrangelove'' is borderline science fiction -- a prediction of the future, featuring a MadScientist and his DoomsdayDevice, and ending with an apocalypse -- and it's considered one of the greatest movies of all time too!
18th Mar '16 1:05:22 AM VanHohenheimOfXerxes
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* Props to Creator/StanleyKubrick for breaking out of the ghetto. ''Film/TheShining'' is a horror movie based on a Creator/StephenKing novel (and yeah, the existence of the ghosts is left [[MaybeMagicMaybeMundane ambiguous]], but the PsychicPowers are certainly there). ''Film/AClockworkOrange'' is set in a {{dystopia}}n future London where the fashion and architecture are futuristic and the law enforcement system uses TheLudovicoTechnique; and ''Film/TwoThousandOneASpaceOdyssey'' is a collaboration with Creator/ArthurCClarke dealing with [[AIIsACrapshoot a killer AI]], SufficientlyAdvancedAliens, and a surreal MindScrew royale at the [[GainaxEnding end]] ([[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking oh, and]] the people wear [[SpaceClothes funky futuristic clothes]] here too). All of these movies, particularly the latter two, are considered some of the greatest movies of all time. Even ''Film/DrStrangelove'' is borderline science fiction -- a prediction of the future, featuring a MadScientist and his DoomsdayDevice, and ending with an apocalypse -- and it's considered one of the greatest movies of all time too!
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