History Main / RunningTheAsylum

22nd Mar '17 7:45:21 AM Dembai
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* The first four books of the New Testament in the Bible are 'fanfiction' in so much as much of the stories they contain show strong influences from the authors who were not shy about what they thought was most important from a list of quotes and stories attributed to Jesus, and their thoughts about the order in which everything occurred. This results in the many contradictions and PlotHoles the gospels are known for.
** This issue is even STRONGER in the Gospel of John which was the last of the Gospels written (anywhere from 30 to 80 years later) - with its own unique dialogues not found in the other Gospels (Including many quotes from Jesus that are not found elsewhere!) as well as other unique stories and characters getting their stories changed or retold (Doubting Thomas, for example!)
* The Apocryphal Books of the Bible (Ezra 2, 3 and 4 and Isaiah 2 and others) read much like fan-fiction. Instead of the structures found in the originals, such as common poetic forms and language (which is often repetitive and dry), these books constantly reference the more 'exciting moments' from those books. Lengthy depictions of giant apocalyptic battles between good and evil are extremely common. They are often excluded from many Biblical Canons for this reason.
** It's even theorized that the second half of the original Isaiah may have been written by a second author who was a fan of the first. PLUS since the second half of Isaiah has the original references to the battles between good and evil and visions of monstrous beings, that would make Isaiah 2 a fanfic of a fanfic.
7th Mar '17 6:49:38 AM SunriseWarrior
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* ''Film/KingKong2005'', like ''Film/SupermanReturns'', is a prime example. While Creator/PeterJackson was a fan of ''Film/TheLordOfTheRings'', and still managed to turn them into humongous hits, the [[Film/KingKong1933 original 1933 version]] of ''Film/KingKong'' is his all time favorite film. He had wanted to remake it as a young boy, and even planned on doing it before adapting the LOTR films (it took the latter becoming the mega blockbusters that they are to finally convince the studio to fund it). Needless to say, the film ended up being packed with loads of plot points, MythologyGags, and character quotes that only people who were familiar with the original would pick up on; the film also ended with a running time of ''three and a half hours''. While the film isn't seen as ''bad'' and it wasn't even a failure at the box office, it didn't become a mega-success like the LOTR trilogy, and some blame Jackson's closeness to the original as one of the reasons it failed to match the quality of his previous work.

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* ''Film/KingKong2005'', like ''Film/SupermanReturns'', is a prime example. While Creator/PeterJackson was a fan of ''Film/TheLordOfTheRings'', and still managed to turn them into humongous hits, the hits. The [[Film/KingKong1933 original 1933 version]] of ''Film/KingKong'' is his all time favorite film. He had wanted to remake it as a young boy, and even planned on doing it before adapting the LOTR films (it took the latter becoming the mega blockbusters that they are to finally convince the studio to fund it). Needless to say, the film ended up being packed with loads of plot points, MythologyGags, and character quotes that only people who were familiar with the original would pick up on; the film also ended with a running time of ''three and a half hours''. While the film isn't seen as ''bad'' and it wasn't even a failure at the box office, it didn't become a mega-success like the LOTR trilogy, and some blame Jackson's closeness to the original as one of the reasons it failed to match the quality of his previous work.
24th Feb '17 6:20:28 AM SSJMagus
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** Reviving Barry Allen in ''Final Crisis'' -- this one wasn't met as well with fans since they had long accepted Barry's HeroicSacrifice.

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** Reviving Barry Allen in ''Final Crisis'' -- this one wasn't met as well with fans since they had long accepted Barry's HeroicSacrifice.HeroicSacrifice and multiple generations of fans saw his successor Wally West as the definitive Flash.



* ComicBook/{{Cyclops}} is often a victim of this trope too. While he's never been the most popular X-Man (he's always had at least a large fandom, but he has an even larger {{hatedom}}...and used to also have a lot of readers just bored by him, but thanks to this trope he's more divisive than ever), the main reason for those who dislike him stems from the way [[TheBusCameBack he was written back into the comics]] after leaving to be with his new wife and son. Because of a writer who was a fan of the original five, Cyclops and Jean were returned and reunited, but while it wasn't NEARLY as cut and dry as many remember it, it basically involved Scott leaving and through a series of convoluted events was unable to find his wife and son, believed them dead, and so resumed a relationship with Jean. Because of THAT, there's many people who now hate him, and it affected how he was written. Some writers deliberately write him as unlikable because they dislike him, and because of others reading him like that, it caused his character to be degenerated quite a bit by some writers.

to:

* ComicBook/{{Cyclops}} is often a victim of this trope too. While he's never been the most popular X-Man (he's always had at least a decently large fandom, but he has an even larger {{hatedom}}...and used to also have a lot of readers just bored by him, but thanks to this trope he's more divisive than ever), the main reason for those who dislike him stems from the way [[TheBusCameBack he was written back into the comics]] after leaving to be with his new wife and son. Because of a writer who was a fan of the original five, Cyclops and Jean were returned and reunited, but while it wasn't NEARLY as cut and dry as many remember it, it basically involved Scott leaving and through a series of convoluted events was unable to find his wife and son, believed them dead, and so resumed a relationship with Jean. Because of THAT, there's many people who now hate him, and it affected how he was written. Some writers deliberately write him as unlikable because they dislike him, and because of others reading him like that, it caused his character to be degenerated quite a bit by some writers.
7th Feb '17 5:13:09 PM eroock
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->''You could say that any Batman fan writing a Batman comic is writing fan fiction.''
-->--'''Creator/NeilGaiman'''

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->''You ->''"You could say that any Batman fan writing a Batman comic is writing fan fiction.''
-->--'''Creator/NeilGaiman'''
"''
-->-- '''Creator/NeilGaiman'''
2nd Jan '17 11:40:54 AM Scabbard
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* Both Ed Brubaker and Rick Remender have done this towards ComicBook/CaptainAmerica's sidekicks. Both [[ComicBook/TheWinterSoldier Bucky Barnes]] and ComicBook/TheFalcon, respectively, have had their lackluster CListFodder status upended (both the fact that Bucky WAS C-List and Falcon's UnfortunateImplications-laden retconned past) and were both turned into Captain America at some point or antoher, with positive results.

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* Both Ed Brubaker and Rick Remender have done this towards ComicBook/CaptainAmerica's sidekicks. Both [[ComicBook/TheWinterSoldier Bucky Barnes]] and ComicBook/TheFalcon, respectively, have had their lackluster CListFodder status upended (both the fact that Bucky WAS C-List and Falcon's UnfortunateImplications-laden retconned past) and were both turned into Captain America at some point or antoher, another, with positive results.
9th Dec '16 11:05:14 AM Midna
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** While not related to ''Crisis'', Geoff Johns also retconned ComicBook/{{Superboy}} into becoming the clone of Superman and Lex Luthor in ''Teen Titans'' -- which was foreshadowed by [[http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3055/geoffjohnslu2.png a fan letter]] sent into Superboy's old book... by one "Geoffrey Johns".
** Creator/DanDiDio has even gone so far as to brag about his fanboy aspects, saying in a ''DC Nation'' column about how he only took on the job to bring back Hal and Barry, saying that current readers "couldn't understand" what great characters they were. In the foreword to the ''Superman/Batman'' trade that brought back Supergirl, it's written that the decision was made from [=DiDio=] seeing a Six Flags ride that described one of the other Supergirl's backstory and [=DiDio=] simply deciding that wasn't right.
** And now they've taken it even further with The New 52, removing numerous characters from continuity and retconning stories that were created post-Crisis. More than anything, there's retconning Wonder Woman from being an immaculate birth to the biological daughter of Zeus and Cassie Sandsmark to being Zeus' granddaughter. Other characters are no longer in existence, like Wally West and fellow speedsters Max Mercury and Jessie Quick, Donna Troy, and most notably, Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown while restoring Barbara Gordon to being Batgirl and reverting her to her Pre-Crisis backstory (Commissioner Gordon's biological daughter and a WideEyedIdealist of sorts rather than his adopted niece with a cynical outlook due to her first hand experience with Joker). [[note]]A lot of fans are upset but not surprised by Cassandra and Stephanie, given [=DiDio's=] attempts to derail and discard them in the past. Fans are split on Barbara: On one hand, reverting a disabled yet powerful character to what is seen as her inferior persona and what many believe is a much less competent portrayal of her, along with giving her back her legs (removing the most iconic disabled hero, leaving few, if none, in mainstream comics) is seen as incredibly insulting to her legacy and highly offensive, but others, due to Barbara being liked by fans, like the fact that what was originally a serious case of Women in Refrigerators has been undone and do appreciate a more human Barbara.[[/note]] Overall, it seems more or less clear that someone high in DC's editorial who got control during the mid 00s has some serious issues specifically with characters introduced post-Crisis that replaced the superheroes of the Silver Age (provided they were DC characters at that time, which is probably why Jaime Reyes remains Blue Beetle and Ted Kord also is so far nowhere to be found). Though there are hints now that Donna will eventually appear in the New 52, and Stephanie Brown has returned, and Wally is set to appear in 2014. Also, for all the "Silver Age" favoritism, the preceding golden age characters don't get nearly as much respect, with there being particular outcry over New 52's treatment of Alan Scott and Earth 2 Superman, the latter necessitating an AuthorsSavingThrow but making it clear it wasn't merely taking things back to the way they used to be so much as when ''I'' got into comics.
* There is a joke amongst comics forums (and this wiki) that someday fans, unsatisfied with the re-emergence of Silver Age aspects, will become DC writers and set things "right" by "putting things back the way they used to be before all this Asylum Running", which basically translates to "Someday new writers will run the asylum so that instead of the Silver Age, it will be Dark Age instead."

to:

** While not related to ''Crisis'', Geoff Johns also retconned ComicBook/{{Superboy}} into becoming the clone of Superman and Lex Luthor in ''Teen Titans'' -- which was foreshadowed by [[http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3055/geoffjohnslu2.png a fan letter]] letter sent into Superboy's old book... by one "Geoffrey Johns".
** Creator/DanDiDio has even gone so far as to brag about his fanboy aspects, saying in a ''DC Nation'' column about how he only took on the job to bring back Hal and Barry, saying that current readers "couldn't understand" what great characters they were. In the foreword to the ''Superman/Batman'' trade that brought back Supergirl, it's written that the decision was made from [=DiDio=] seeing a Six Flags ride that described one of the other Supergirl's backstory of another Supergirl and [=DiDio=] simply deciding that wasn't right.
** And now they've taken The New 52 takes it even further with The New 52, further, removing numerous characters from continuity and retconning stories that were created post-Crisis. More than anything, there's retconning Wonder Woman from being an immaculate birth to the biological daughter of Zeus and Cassie Sandsmark to being Zeus' granddaughter. Other characters are no longer in retconned out of existence, like Wally West and fellow speedsters Max Mercury and Jessie Quick, Donna Troy, and most notably, Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown while restoring Barbara Gordon to being Batgirl and reverting her to her Pre-Crisis backstory (Commissioner Gordon's biological daughter and a WideEyedIdealist of sorts sorts, rather than his adopted niece with a cynical outlook due to her first hand experience with the Joker). [[note]]A lot of fans are upset but not surprised by Cassandra and Stephanie, given [=DiDio's=] attempts to derail and discard them in the past. Fans are split on Barbara: On one hand, reverting a disabled yet powerful character to what is seen as her inferior persona and what many believe is a much less competent portrayal of her, along with giving her back her legs (removing the most iconic disabled hero, leaving few, if none, in mainstream comics) is seen as incredibly insulting to her legacy and highly offensive, but others, due to Barbara being liked by fans, like the fact that what was originally a serious case of Women in Refrigerators StuffedIntoTheFridge has been undone and do appreciate a more human Barbara.[[/note]] Overall, it seems more or less clear that someone high in DC's editorial who got control during the mid 00s '00s has some serious issues specifically with characters introduced post-Crisis that replaced the superheroes of the Silver Age (provided they were DC characters at that time, which is probably why Jaime Reyes remains Blue Beetle and Ted Kord also is so far nowhere to be found). Though there are hints now that Donna will eventually appear in the New 52, and Stephanie Brown has returned, and Wally is set to appear in 2014. Also, for all the "Silver Age" favoritism, the preceding golden age Golden Age characters don't get nearly as much respect, with there being particular outcry over New 52's treatment of Alan Scott and Earth 2 Superman, the latter necessitating an AuthorsSavingThrow but making it clear it wasn't merely taking things back to the way they used to be so much as when ''I'' got into comics.
* There is a joke amongst comics forums (and this wiki) that someday fans, unsatisfied with the re-emergence of Silver Age aspects, will become DC writers and set things "right" by "putting things back the way they used to be before all this Asylum Running", which basically translates to "Someday new writers will run the asylum so that instead of the Silver Age, it will be the Dark Age instead."



* From the way he writes [[UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny ultimate showdowns of ultimate destiny]], it's apparent that Creator/FrankMiller likes Franchise/{{Batman}} but not any of DC Comics' other heroes.
** Still, he is quite aware of the PowerPerversionPotential of certain superheroes and CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass characteristics of characters like Franchise/TheFlash and Comicbook/PlasticMan and plays those up when he gets the chance to write them (not to mention the PhysicalGod aspects of someone with a Franchise/GreenLantern Ring). The only one he really seems to hate (and whom constantly gets the [[TheWorfEffect short end of the stick]]) is ''Franchise/{{Superman}}''.

to:

* From the way he writes [[UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny ultimate showdowns of ultimate destiny]], it's apparent that Creator/FrankMiller likes Franchise/{{Batman}} but not any of DC Comics' other heroes.
**
heroes. Still, he is quite aware of the PowerPerversionPotential of certain superheroes and CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass characteristics of characters like Franchise/TheFlash and Comicbook/PlasticMan Comicbook/PlasticMan, and plays those up when he gets the chance to write them (not to mention the PhysicalGod aspects of someone with a Franchise/GreenLantern Ring). The only one he really seems to hate (and whom constantly gets the [[TheWorfEffect short end of the stick]]) is ''Franchise/{{Superman}}''.Franchise/{{Superman}}.



* Creator/MarvelComics got into this a bit slower (they started five years later) but is definitely there. Stuff like ''ComicBook/AvengersForever'' is sometimes referred to as "ContinuityPorn".
** ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'' is a particularly loathed example of Running the Asylum, with editor in chief Creator/JoeQuesada being twenty-four when ComicBook/SpiderMan got married and [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks hating that Spidey got changed from when he was a kid]]. Apparently everyone else who has read and enjoyed Spider-Man within the past twenty years [[NoTrueScotsman don't count as real fans]], since they want the case to be "Spidey grows old and dies off". That was a direct quote from Quesada.
*** And he ordered Jean Grey KilledOffForReal and prevents writers from bringing her back. And from some of his own words, including his thoughts that she didn't do anything of merit since saving the universe, Comicbook/{{Cyclops}} is "more interesting" without her.
*** [[ComicBook/AntMan Hank Pym]] was made into a widower, after killing off [[TheWasp his wife]], claiming he's ''also'' "more interesting" without her. This backfired though, as the Wasp is now back and Pym has been stripped of the Ant-Man identity in favor of Scott Lang, who is the Ant-Man that will be starring in the movie (though Pym is still present as the inventor of Lang's gear).
*** Quesada seems to have some major issues with wives, but not with [[EvenBadMenLoveTheirMamas moms]]; which is why [[Comicbook/FantasticFour Invisible Woman]] and Comicbook/JessicaJones are spared (the ''ComicBook/SpiderGirl'' continuity's version of Mary Jane used to be on the same boat until [[spoiler:Peter was killed off in the Massive Spider event ComicBook/SpiderVerse, leaving her a widow]]).
* Arguably, the famous "Comicbook/TheNightGwenStacyDied" is a result of this. "Arguably" because there are a number of theories about it.
** Gerry Conway was a PromotedFanboy, who didn't care for Gwen and thought Peter should hook up with Mary Jane. So he basically had Gwen [[DieForOurShip die for his ship]].
** Gwen was killed off because Conway wanted to kill off Aunt May, but the editors wouldn't let him, and told him to kill off Gwen instead. It's not confirmed if it was indeed a case of him personally preferring Mary Jane.
** A graphic novel compilation of the original Clone Saga says the idea of killing Gwen Stacy was already bandied about when he became the writer, he was simply the guy who executed it. He admits that he thought Mary Jane was a better love interest for Peter, but more the point, felt that the death of beloved Gwen Stacy would be another defining moment for a character defined by tragedy. As he says, "tragedy and pathos are meat and potatoes to a guy like me."
* ComicBook/{{Cyclops}} is often a victim of this trope too. While he's never been the most popular X-Man (he's always had at least his share of fans, but he has even more haters...and used to also have a lot of readers just bored by him, but thanks to this trope he's more divisive than ever), the main reason for those who dislike him stems from the way [[TheBusCameBack he was written back into the comics]] after leaving to be with his new wife and son. Because of a writer who was a fan of the original five, Cyclops and Jean were returned and reunited, but while it wasn't NEARLY as cut and dry as many remember it, it basically involved Scott leaving and through a series of convoluted events was unable to find his wife and son, believed them dead, and so resumed a relationship with Jean. Because of THAT, there's many people who now hate him, and it affected how he was written. Some writers deliberately write him as unlikable because they dislike him, and because of others reading him like that, its caused his character to be degenerated quite a bit by some writers.
* While we're at it, lets consider ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}'s ridiculous PowerCreepPowerSeep over the years--his HealingFactor going from a simple neck wound being potentially lethal to coming back [[FromASingleCell from being burned down to his adamantium bones]]--and consider that this is what happens [[PopularityPower when childhood fans join up and power-boost their favorite character]].

to:

* Creator/MarvelComics got into this a bit slower (they started five years later) later), but is it's definitely there. Stuff like ''ComicBook/AvengersForever'' is sometimes referred to as "ContinuityPorn".
** ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'' is a particularly loathed example of Running the Asylum, with editor in chief Creator/JoeQuesada being twenty-four 24 when ComicBook/SpiderMan got married and [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks hating that Spidey got changed from when he was a kid]]. Apparently everyone else who has read and enjoyed Spider-Man within the past twenty years [[NoTrueScotsman don't count as real fans]], since they want the case to be "Spidey grows old and dies off". That was a direct quote from Quesada.
*** And he ** Quesada also ordered Jean Grey KilledOffForReal and prevents writers from bringing her back. And from some of his own words, including his thoughts that she didn't do anything of merit since saving the universe, Comicbook/{{Cyclops}} is "more interesting" without her.
*** ** [[ComicBook/AntMan Hank Pym]] was made into a widower, widower after killing off [[TheWasp the death of [[ComicBook/TheWasp his wife]], claiming and Quesada claimed he's ''also'' "more interesting" without her. This backfired though, as the Wasp is now came back and Pym has been was stripped of the Ant-Man identity in favor of Scott Lang, who is the Ant-Man that will be starring stars in [[Film/AntMan the movie movie]] (though Pym is still present as the inventor of Lang's gear).
*** ** Quesada seems to have some major issues with wives, but not with [[EvenBadMenLoveTheirMamas moms]]; which this is why [[Comicbook/FantasticFour the Invisible Woman]] and Comicbook/JessicaJones are spared (the ''ComicBook/SpiderGirl'' continuity's version of Mary Jane used to be on the same boat until [[spoiler:Peter was killed off in the Massive Spider event ComicBook/SpiderVerse, leaving her a widow]]).
* Arguably, the The famous "Comicbook/TheNightGwenStacyDied" is a result often accused of this. "Arguably" because there are being a number of theories about it.
**
vehicle for Gerry Conway was a PromotedFanboy, who didn't care for Gwen and thought Peter should hook up with Mary Jane. So he basically had Gwen to [[DieForOurShip die for his ship]].
**
kill Gwen was killed off because Conway wanted to kill off Aunt May, but the editors wouldn't let him, and told him to kill off Gwen instead. It's not confirmed if it was indeed a case of him personally preferring so that Peter could hook up with Conway's preferred girlfriend, Mary Jane.
** A
Jane]]. In reality, a graphic novel compilation of the original Clone Saga says the idea of killing Gwen Stacy was already bandied about when he became the writer, an he was simply the guy who executed it. He admits that he thought Mary Jane was a better love interest for Peter, but more the point, felt that the death of beloved Gwen Stacy would be another defining moment for a character defined by tragedy. As he says, "tragedy and pathos are meat and potatoes to a guy like me."
* ComicBook/{{Cyclops}} is often a victim of this trope too. While he's never been the most popular X-Man (he's always had at least his share of fans, a large fandom, but he has an even more haters...larger {{hatedom}}...and used to also have a lot of readers just bored by him, but thanks to this trope he's more divisive than ever), the main reason for those who dislike him stems from the way [[TheBusCameBack he was written back into the comics]] after leaving to be with his new wife and son. Because of a writer who was a fan of the original five, Cyclops and Jean were returned and reunited, but while it wasn't NEARLY as cut and dry as many remember it, it basically involved Scott leaving and through a series of convoluted events was unable to find his wife and son, believed them dead, and so resumed a relationship with Jean. Because of THAT, there's many people who now hate him, and it affected how he was written. Some writers deliberately write him as unlikable because they dislike him, and because of others reading him like that, its it caused his character to be degenerated quite a bit by some writers.
* While we're at it, lets let's consider ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}'s ridiculous PowerCreepPowerSeep over the years--his HealingFactor going from a simple neck wound being potentially lethal to coming back [[FromASingleCell from being burned down to his adamantium bones]]--and consider that this is what happens [[PopularityPower when childhood fans join up and power-boost their favorite character]].



** Ed Brubaker has said many times in interviews that the first two comics he bought with his own money were [[Comicbook/ImmortalIronFist Iron Fist]] and an issue of Comicbook/CaptainAmerica featuring the Evil 50s Cap as a villain; in his later career, he revived Iron Fist in a new solo title and, while writing Comicbook/CaptainAmerica's solo title, brought back Evil 50s Cap. Both these runs are widely acclaimed, [[TropesAreNotBad so this is one of the good examples]].
*** He also has said that one of the few issues he still has from his youth is one of Steranko's, when Cap "died" for the first time. Not only has he based his entire 50+ issue run on the three Steranko issues, he also "killed" off Cap--to much critical and fan acclaim. Brubaker's just that good.

to:

** Ed Brubaker has said many times in interviews that the first two comics he bought with his own money were [[Comicbook/ImmortalIronFist Iron Fist]] and an issue of Comicbook/CaptainAmerica featuring the Evil 50s '50s Cap as a villain; in his later career, he revived Iron Fist in a new solo title and, while writing Comicbook/CaptainAmerica's solo title, brought back Evil 50s '50s Cap. Both these runs are widely acclaimed, [[TropesAreNotBad so this is one of the good examples]].
***
examples]]. He also has said that one of the few issues he still has from his youth is one of Steranko's, when Cap "died" for the first time. Not only has he based his entire 50+ issue run on the three Steranko issues, he also "killed" off Cap--to much critical and fan acclaim. Brubaker's just that good.



* ''Comicbook/SonicTheHedgehog'' is now being written by Ian "The Potto" Flynn, a [[BigNameFan somewhat well known fan of the series]], who was even writing his own Sonic fan comic ("Other M") prior to being picked up by Archie. This has been met with a mixed reception that largely depends on where on the Internet you go; of course, this ''is'' [[BrokenBase the Sonic fandom]]. Some complaints include ignorance of canon, derailing several characters, some of which to preserve certain relationships (namely Sonic and Sally's). Some things he's gotten a more positive response for however have been [[AndThereWasMuchRejoicing his killing off very unpopular characters]], rewriting bad stories, cleaning up unresolved plot points, and offering other related fanservice to the fanbase. One of his most notable contributions has been citing a lot of Sonic Internet memes and other memorable lines from various Sonic media.
** It also helps that his writing and understanding of the characters and source material has improved a ''lot'' since he started out with the gig, and the post-''Worlds Collide'' timeline reset cleaning up much of the messy comics-only material and moving it the comics closer in line with the games, due to the legal mess surrounding Ken Penders.

to:

* ''Comicbook/SonicTheHedgehog'' ''Comicbook/SonicTheHedgehog''[='s=] head writer as of this writing (December 2016) is now being written by Ian "The Potto" Flynn, a [[BigNameFan somewhat well known fan of the series]], who was even writing his own Sonic fan comic ("Other M") prior to being picked up by Archie. This has been was met with a mixed reception that largely depends on where on the Internet you go; of course, this ''is'' [[BrokenBase the Sonic fandom]]. Some complaints include ignorance of canon, canon and derailing several characters, some of which were to preserve certain relationships (namely Sonic and Sally's). Some things he's gotten a more positive response for however for, however, have been [[AndThereWasMuchRejoicing his killing off very unpopular characters]], rewriting bad stories, cleaning up unresolved plot points, and offering other related fanservice to the fanbase. One of his most notable contributions has been citing a lot of Sonic Internet memes and other memorable lines from various Sonic media.
**
media. It also helps that his writing and understanding of the characters and source material has improved a ''lot'' since he started out with the gig, and the post-''Worlds Collide'' timeline reset cleaning up much of the messy comics-only material and moving it the comics closer in line with the games, due to the legal mess surrounding Ken Penders.



* ''Franchise/{{Transformers}}'' comics suffered from this during their revival by the now-defunct [[ComicBook/TransformersGenerationOne Dreamwave Comics]]. Under Dreamwave, plots tended to be either simple or vague while the authors took time to work in [[FanWank explanations for the toys with rub signs]] and rampant {{Easter Egg}}s that contributed nothing to the story. It didn't help that they essentially just built off the old kid's cartoon from the 80s.
** On the other hand, fans have had no problem with Nick Roche and James Roberts, who made a short ContinuityPorn story that [[AuthorsSavingThrow used elements]] [[ArcWelding of McCarthy's run]] to turn Prowl into a bona-fide MagnificentBastard, and created new, likable personalities for a half-dozen characters in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersLastStandOfTheWreckers''. Roberts has been continuing the process in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'', giving major screentime and development the fans are enjoying to even more characters who previously had little to no exposure.
* ReginaldHudlin is a fan of ComicBook/BlackPanther. After he started to write his adventures, T'Challa was turned into a GodModeSue, Wakanda into MarySuetopia, and ComicBook/{{Storm}} from ''X-Men'' [[TokenRomance married BP]] and have everybody near him carry {{Idiot Ball}}s.
* In ''ComicBook/{{Daredevil}}'''s case, it seems like all the best writers that get their hands on him (including Creator/AnnNocenti, Creator/KevinSmith, Creator/BrianMichaelBendis and Creator/EdBrubaker) are fans of Creator/FrankMiller's run and just like him are trying to make Matt's life [[TheWoobie as miserable as possible]]. [[TropesAreNotBad Fans don't mind]].
* Artist example: ask Lenili Yu to draw a scene with multiple superheroes, or large battle with them. Possibility that you can find his beloved character, Comicbook/HowardTheDuck, in it, even if he wasn't mentioned on the character's list, equals 100%.
* ''Comicbook/ElfQuest'' became almost entirely run by fans after the first few storylines, and the original creators (Wendy and Richard Pini) never seemed to particularly care about the quality of the new art or writing - but still declared all of it canon. Some of the fan-made comics were seriously great. Most of them are not. Examples:

to:

* ''Franchise/{{Transformers}}'' comics suffered from this during their revival by the now-defunct [[ComicBook/TransformersGenerationOne Dreamwave Comics]]. Under Dreamwave, plots tended to be either simple or vague while the authors took time to work in [[FanWank explanations for the toys with rub signs]] and rampant {{Easter Egg}}s that contributed nothing to the story. It didn't help that they essentially just built off the old kid's cartoon from the 80s.
'80s.
** On the other hand, fans have had no problem with Nick Roche and James Roberts, who made a short ContinuityPorn story that [[AuthorsSavingThrow used uses elements]] [[ArcWelding of McCarthy's run]] to turn Prowl into a bona-fide MagnificentBastard, and created new, likable personalities for a half-dozen characters in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersLastStandOfTheWreckers''. Roberts has been continuing continued the process in ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'', giving major screentime and development the fans are enjoying enjoy to even more characters who previously had little to no exposure.
* ReginaldHudlin Creator/ReginaldHudlin is a fan of ComicBook/BlackPanther. After he started to write his adventures, T'Challa was turned into a GodModeSue, Wakanda into MarySuetopia, and ComicBook/{{Storm}} from ''X-Men'' [[TokenRomance married BP]] and have everybody near him carry BP]]. Afterwards, wherever the two go, everyone else immediately gets hit with {{Idiot Ball}}s.
* In ''ComicBook/{{Daredevil}}'''s case, it seems like all the best writers that get their hands on him (including Creator/AnnNocenti, Creator/KevinSmith, Creator/BrianMichaelBendis and Creator/EdBrubaker) are fans of Creator/FrankMiller's run and and, just like him him, are trying to make Matt's life [[TheWoobie as miserable as possible]]. The Punisher is ''supposed'' to be a dark and brooding character, [[TropesAreNotBad Fans so fans don't mind]].
* Artist example: ask Lenili Yu to draw a scene with multiple superheroes, or large battle with them. Possibility that you can find The odds of finding his beloved favorite character, Comicbook/HowardTheDuck, in it, even if he wasn't mentioned on the character's character list, equals are equal to or greater than 100%.
* ''Comicbook/ElfQuest'' became almost entirely run by fans after the first few storylines, and the original creators (Wendy and Richard Pini) never seemed to particularly care about the quality of the new art or writing - but still declared all of it canon. Some of the fan-made comics were are seriously great. Most of them are not. Examples:



* In an interview with Comic Heroes, a British comics industry magazine, Creator/AlanMoore essentially said he despised this trope, and blamed it for many of the reasons comics have the reputation they do today. He also said he may retire from the industry due to this trope, but given he's still working on ''Comicbook/TheLeagueOfExtraordinaryGentlemen'', it doesn't seem to have occurred yet. Given that nearly all of his best-known works, including ''League'', are based on someone else's creations, there is some small hint of irony in his comments.
* This is true of ''Comicbook/TheBeano'' and ''ComicBook/TheDandy'' with many of those working on the comic having read the comic as children. Seeing as the comic started in the 1930s this was true even in the early days with one of the co-creators of ComicStrip/DennisTheMenaceUK having even read ''Comicbook/TheBeano'' as a child [[http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2007/sep/20/guardianobituaries.pressandpublishing ]].
* The writer of ''Amazing ComicBook/SpiderMan'' Dan Slott has been a rather [[BrokenBase contentious]] example of this. Being a [[AscendedFanboy self-professed Spider-Man fanboy]], his run post-BND has brought critical acclaim to the series, shooting the franchise up the sales charts [[ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan mirroring the success of JMS's previous run.]] With that said, Slott has ''also'' [[TrollingCreator developed quite the reputation with his detractors]], [[DearNegativeReader arguing with his critics on message boards]] and even goes as far as [[TakeThatAudience make jabs in the comic itself.]]

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* In an interview with Comic Heroes, a British comics industry magazine, Creator/AlanMoore essentially said he despised this trope, trope and blamed it for many of the reasons comics have the reputation they do today. He also said he may retire from the industry due to this trope, but given he's still working on ''Comicbook/TheLeagueOfExtraordinaryGentlemen'', it doesn't seem to have occurred yet. Given that nearly all of his best-known works, including ''League'', are based on someone else's creations, there is some small hint of irony in his comments.
* This is true of ''Comicbook/TheBeano'' and ''ComicBook/TheDandy'' ''ComicBook/TheDandy'', with many of those working on the comic having read the comic as children. Seeing as the comic started in the 1930s 1930s, this was true even in the early days days, with one of the co-creators of ComicStrip/DennisTheMenaceUK having even read ''Comicbook/TheBeano'' as a child [[http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2007/sep/20/guardianobituaries.pressandpublishing ]].
as a child]].
%% Not using the serial comma is NOT an excuse to not use commas at all. F--, see me after class.
* The writer of ''Amazing ComicBook/SpiderMan'' ComicBook/SpiderMan'', Dan Slott Slott, has been a rather [[BrokenBase contentious]] example of this. Being a [[AscendedFanboy self-professed Spider-Man fanboy]], his run post-BND has brought critical acclaim to the series, shooting the franchise up the sales charts and [[ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan mirroring the success of JMS's previous run.]] With that said, Slott has ''also'' [[TrollingCreator developed quite the reputation with his detractors]], [[DearNegativeReader arguing with his critics on message boards]] and even goes going as far as [[TakeThatAudience make making jabs in the comic itself.]]



* The unusually violent and overdramatic "Home Schooling" arc of ''ComicBook/{{Runaways}}'', in which Old Lace [[spoiler:appears to die]], Klara Prast is transformed from a relatively inoffensive CousinOliver into an annoying brat with uncontrolled powers that threaten to destroy the team, and Gertrude Yorkes suddenly reappears out of nowhere, starts to make sense in some sick way when you read series editor Nick Lowe's comments announcing the run, where he promotes the arc as being the best one since the one where Gertrude Yorkes died. One might surmise that Lowe was one of those fans who subscribed to the theory that Klara was a ReplacementScrappy for Gert. Unfortunately for all ''Runaways'' fans, Marvel apparently realized that the inmates had taken over the asylum and decided to shut it down more or less permanently in 2009.
* Both Ed Brubaker and Rick Remender have done this towards ComicBook/CaptainAmerica...'s sidekicks. Both [[ComicBook/TheWinterSoldier Bucky Barnes]] and ComicBook/TheFalcon, respectively, have had their lackluster CListFodder status upended (both the fact that Bucky WAS C-List and Falcon's UnfortunateImplications-laded retconned past) and turned them into Captain America with positive results.

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* The unusually violent and overdramatic over-dramatic "Home Schooling" arc of ''ComicBook/{{Runaways}}'', in which Old Lace [[spoiler:appears to die]], Klara Prast is transformed from a relatively inoffensive CousinOliver into an annoying brat with uncontrolled powers that threaten to destroy the team, and Gertrude Yorkes suddenly reappears out of nowhere, starts to make sense in some sick way when you read series editor Nick Lowe's comments announcing the run, where he promotes the arc as being the best one since the one where Gertrude Yorkes died. One might surmise that Lowe was one of those fans who subscribed to the theory that Klara was a ReplacementScrappy for Gert. Unfortunately for all ''Runaways'' fans, Marvel apparently realized that the inmates had taken over the asylum and decided to shut it down more or less permanently in 2009.
* Both Ed Brubaker and Rick Remender have done this towards ComicBook/CaptainAmerica...'s ComicBook/CaptainAmerica's sidekicks. Both [[ComicBook/TheWinterSoldier Bucky Barnes]] and ComicBook/TheFalcon, respectively, have had their lackluster CListFodder status upended (both the fact that Bucky WAS C-List and Falcon's UnfortunateImplications-laded UnfortunateImplications-laden retconned past) and were both turned them into Captain America at some point or antoher, with positive results.



** Dr. Curtis Saxton became a technical adviser for the prequels and wrote the ''Incredible Cross-Sections'' supplemental books for Episodes II and III entirely because of the impressive detail of his website, "The Star Wars Technical Commentaries". Of course, it probably helps in not only having a [=PhD=] in astrophysics, but also in that his doctorate thesis paper was essentially Version 1.0 of his website. However, he has received criticism that his works on the ''Incredible Cross Sections'' don't really match up what we see on screen, and in fact overshoot them by several orders of magnitude. His more visceral critics flat out accuse him of [[ArmedWithCanon trying to rewrite canon to win a fan debate]].
* The ''Film/ResidentEvil'' movies had canon characters that appear ending up playing second fiddle to the film's protagonist, played by the writer-director's girlfriend/wife. A blink-and-miss newspaper clip of an 'Officer Kennedy' being shot and killed, in any other series, it'd be a joke, but just infuriating when it's clear no one could steal the character's spotlight.
** Since the series is up to its sixth entry, it's all been confirmed that the ''only'' canon R.E. character to get any real dignity next to Alice is Albert Wesker, the BigBad of the series. Recent entries into the games also affect the movies as well, such as the Plagas and elements from ''Resident Evil 5'' being introduced in a setting that ''never brought them up''. Any canon character who is lucky enough to come back after the film they were introduced in still finds themselves without a point, even the games' most popular character Leon S. Kennedy, who somehow must have survived that fatal shooting...

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** Dr. Curtis Saxton became a technical adviser for the prequels and wrote the ''Incredible Cross-Sections'' supplemental books for Episodes II and III entirely because of the impressive detail of his website, "The Star Wars Technical Commentaries". Of course, it probably helps in that he not only having has a [=PhD=] in astrophysics, but also in that his doctorate thesis paper was essentially Version 1.0 of his website. However, he has received criticism that his works on the ''Incredible Cross Sections'' don't really match up what we see on screen, on-screen, and in fact overshoot them by several orders of magnitude. His more visceral critics flat out accuse him of [[ArmedWithCanon trying to rewrite canon to win a fan debate]].
* The ''Film/ResidentEvil'' movies had have canon characters that appear ending up playing second fiddle to the film's protagonist, played by the writer-director's girlfriend/wife. A blink-and-miss newspaper clip of an 'Officer Kennedy' "Officer Kennedy" being shot and killed, in any other series, it'd would be a joke, but it just ends up infuriating when it's clear no one could steal it was done from keeping any ''canon'' character from stealing the character's CreatorsPet's spotlight.
** Since the series is up to its sixth entry, it's all been confirmed that the ''only'' canon R.E. character to get any real dignity next to Alice is Albert Wesker, the BigBad of the series. Recent Contemporary entries into the games also affect the movies as well, such as the Plagas and elements from ''Resident Evil 5'' being introduced in a setting that ''never brought them up''. Any canon character who is lucky enough to come back after the film they were introduced in still finds themselves without a point, even the games' most popular character Leon S. Kennedy, who somehow must have survived that fatal shooting...



* Whit Anderson, the writer for the ''Film/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' ContinuityReboot, is a fan of the Creator/JossWhedon [[Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer series]] who was the same age as Buffy when the show was first running.

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* Whit Anderson, the writer for the ''Film/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' ContinuityReboot, is a fan of the Creator/JossWhedon [[Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer series]] who series]]. He was the same age as Buffy when the show was first running.



* ''Film/KingKong2005'', like ''Film/SupermanReturns'', is a prime example. While Creator/PeterJackson was a fan of ''Film/TheLordOfTheRings'', and still managed to turn them into humongous hits, the [[Film/KingKong1933 original 1933 version]] of ''Film/KingKong'' was his all time favorite film. He had wanted to remake it as a young boy, and even planned on doing it before adapting the LOTR films (it took the latter becoming the mega blockbusters that they are to finally convince the studio to fund it). Needless to say, the film ended up being packed with loads of plot points, MythologyGags, and character quotes that only people who were familiar with the original would pick up on, and the film also ended with a running time of ''three and a half hours''. While the film wasn't seen as ''bad'' or even a failure at the box office, it didn't become a mega-success like the LOTR trilogy, and some blame Jackson's closeness to the original as one of the reasons it failed to match the quality of his previous work.

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* ''Film/KingKong2005'', like ''Film/SupermanReturns'', is a prime example. While Creator/PeterJackson was a fan of ''Film/TheLordOfTheRings'', and still managed to turn them into humongous hits, the [[Film/KingKong1933 original 1933 version]] of ''Film/KingKong'' was is his all time favorite film. He had wanted to remake it as a young boy, and even planned on doing it before adapting the LOTR films (it took the latter becoming the mega blockbusters that they are to finally convince the studio to fund it). Needless to say, the film ended up being packed with loads of plot points, MythologyGags, and character quotes that only people who were familiar with the original would pick up on, and on; the film also ended with a running time of ''three and a half hours''. While the film wasn't isn't seen as ''bad'' or and it wasn't even a failure at the box office, it didn't become a mega-success like the LOTR trilogy, and some blame Jackson's closeness to the original as one of the reasons it failed to match the quality of his previous work.



* Piers Anthony's ''Literature/{{Xanth}}'' series now consists almost entirely of puns and {{plot coupon}}s taken from reader fan mail. He even gives credits in his Author's Note at the end of each book for each reader suggestion he decided to use.
** The series has been like this since at least the 4th book -- and he's up to the ''34th'' now. The further into the series you go, the more reliant the books get on reader-submitted puns. It's a shame, as Anthony has demonstrated his writing skills in numerous other series, but it may say something about the potential audience that the ''Xanth'' books have always been his most popular.
*** The frustrating part is that Anthony tried GrowingTheBeard with the ''Xanth'' books around the mid teens and it worked for a few books. Then around book 20, he seemed to give up trying to write stories, and just strung the thousands of puns he's sent together and called them books. It's likely he realized that coming up with some characters and a plot outline and having the characters 1) meet someone new every chapter, 2) do a full round of introductions and a story recap to that new person, and 3) just wandering from reader-submitted pun to reader-submitted pun in between was a much easier way to meet his word count and get his paycheck than bothering to write a story.
* Creator/HPLovecraft went off and encouraged fans of his work to do this. In fact, he read most of his fanfiction, and on a few occasions even ''expanded'' off his fanfiction. Albeit, this was around eighty years ago and his fanbase was relatively small, so most of his fanfiction came from respectable authors.

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* Ever since at least the fourth book Piers Anthony's ''Literature/{{Xanth}}'' series now consists almost entirely of puns and {{plot coupon}}s taken from reader fan mail. He even gives credits in his Author's Note at the end of each book for each reader suggestion he decided to use.
** The series has been like this since at least the 4th book -- and he's up to the ''34th'' now.
mail--and there are ''over 30 books''. The further into the series you go, the more reliant the books get on reader-submitted puns. He even gives credits in his Author's Note at the end of each book for each reader suggestion he decided to use. It's a shame, as Anthony has demonstrated his writing skills in numerous other series, but it may say something about the potential audience that the ''Xanth'' books have always been his most popular.
*** ** The frustrating part is that Anthony tried GrowingTheBeard with the ''Xanth'' books around the mid teens mid-teens, and it worked for a few books. Then around book 20, he seemed to give up trying to write stories, and just strung the thousands of puns he's sent together and called them books. It's likely he realized that coming up with some characters and a plot outline and having the characters 1) meet someone new every chapter, 2) do a full round of introductions and a story recap to that new person, and 3) just wandering from reader-submitted pun to reader-submitted pun in between was a much easier way to meet his word count and get his paycheck than bothering to write a story.
* Creator/HPLovecraft went off and encouraged fans of his work to do this. In fact, he read most of his fanfiction, and on a few occasions even ''expanded'' off his fanfiction. Albeit, Note, though, that this was around eighty years ago and his fanbase was relatively small, so most of his fanfiction came from respectable authors.



** In the Classic series: Creator/MatthewWaterhouse, a literal card-carrying fan (he belonged to the Doctor Who Appreciation Society, the biggest ''Who'' fan club in the world) got cast as TheScrappy, Adric. Around the same time another fan, Andrew Smith, had a script accepted. A few years later überfan Ian Levine co-wrote a (not-very-well-received) script for "Attack of the Cybermen" (as well as writing the music for ''K-9 Company'', a SpinOff that died at {{pilot}} stage). In the late '80's, Andrew Cartmel, a young and inexperienced, if wry, writer who got the gig of Script Editor just by applying. The result was three years of {{retcon}}s, postmodern commentary both on the show itself and its fanbase, and the most convoluted storylines ever. Opinions are deeply divided on this era. To some extent, though, it's never really gone away. Technically, though Cartmel had more of an interest in ComicBooks, particularly the work of Creator/AlanMoore than in ''Series/DoctorWho''. However, two of his writers, Marc Platt and Ben Aaronovitch, ''did'' consider themselves fans (only because Ben didn't really know what a 'fan' was), the former having contributed articles to the fanzines of the day, the latter contributing two very "fannish" stories. Behind the scenes, the three of them also came up with the "Cartmel Masterplan", a secret {{backstory}} {{retcon}} of the Doctor's history, which never quite found its way to the screen.
** In the 1980s then-unknown Creator/NicholasBriggs and some other fans created an audio series called the ''AudioPlay/DoctorWhoAudioVisuals''. They eventually went pro, founded the official audio series AudioPlay/BigFinishDoctorWho, and adapted many of their old FanFic stories into audio episodes proper, which are ''still ongoing'' with Briggs as the ShowRunner. Creator/NicholasBriggs also managed to cast many of the Doctors and their companions in his unrelated TV and film works, and currently voices the Daleks and the Cybermen in the TV show.
** The new series has this from the get-go; Creator/RussellTDavies, naturally, was a huge fan. Current showrunner Creator/StevenMoffat is also an überfan. The Tenth Doctor, David Tennant, has even stated in interviews that wanting to play the Doctor is what led to his choice of acting when he was young.
*** Creator/PeterCapaldi is also a huge fan, and upon taking the role of the twelfth regeneration of The Doctor, almost immediately argued with Moffat over problems with the scripts.
** Going by the Appreciation Index for certain episodes from both writers, [[TropesAreNotBad this may not have been bad]] for the new series.
*** Moreso when you remember the 1999 Children In Need Special (fanfiction if anything is) starring Rowan Atkinson and Hugh Grant as The Doctor, was written by that same Steven Moffat.

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** In the Classic series: Creator/MatthewWaterhouse, a literal card-carrying fan (he belonged to the Doctor Who Appreciation Society, the biggest ''Who'' fan club in the world) got world), was cast as TheScrappy, Adric. Around the same time another fan, Andrew Smith, had a script accepted. A few years later the überfan Ian Levine co-wrote a (not-very-well-received) (poorly-received) script for "Attack of the Cybermen" (as well as writing the music for ''K-9 Company'', a SpinOff that died at {{pilot}} stage). OneEpisodeWonder SpinOff). In the late '80's, '80s came Andrew Cartmel, a young and inexperienced, if wry, writer inexperienced--if wry--writer who got the gig of Script Editor just by applying. The result was three years of {{retcon}}s, postmodern commentary both on the show itself and its fanbase, and the most convoluted storylines ever. Opinions are deeply divided on this era. To some extent, though, it's never really gone away. Technically, though Cartmel had more of an interest in ComicBooks, particularly the work of Creator/AlanMoore Creator/AlanMoore, than in ''Series/DoctorWho''. However, ''Series/DoctorWho''; however, two of his writers, Marc Platt and Ben Aaronovitch, ''did'' consider themselves fans (only because Ben didn't really know what a 'fan' "fan" was), the former having contributed articles to the fanzines of the day, day and the latter contributing two very "fannish" stories. Behind the scenes, the three of them also came up with the "Cartmel Masterplan", a secret {{backstory}} {{retcon}} of the Doctor's history, which never quite found its way to the screen.
** In the 1980s 1980s, a then-unknown Creator/NicholasBriggs and some other fans created an audio series called the ''AudioPlay/DoctorWhoAudioVisuals''. They eventually went pro, founded the official audio series AudioPlay/BigFinishDoctorWho, and adapted many of their old FanFic stories into proper audio episodes proper, episodes, which are ''still ongoing'' with Briggs as the ShowRunner. Creator/NicholasBriggs also managed to cast many of the Doctors and their companions in his unrelated TV and film works, and currently voices the Daleks and the Cybermen in the TV show.
** The new revival series has had this from the get-go; Creator/RussellTDavies, naturally, was a huge fan. Current showrunner Creator/StevenMoffat is also an überfan. The Tenth Doctor, David Tennant, has even stated in interviews that wanting to play the Doctor is what led to his choice of acting when he was young.
***
young. Creator/PeterCapaldi is also a huge fan, and upon taking the role of the twelfth regeneration of The Doctor, he almost immediately argued with Moffat over problems with the scripts.
** Going by the Appreciation Index for certain episodes from both writers, [[TropesAreNotBad this may not have been bad]] for the new series.
***
series. Moreso when you remember the 1999 Children In Need Special (fanfiction if anything is) is), starring Rowan Atkinson and Hugh Grant as The Doctor, was written by that same Steven Moffat.



* Creator/StevenMoffat and Creator/MarkGatiss of ''{{Franchise/Sherlock}}'' freely and frequently describe themselves as Arthur Conan Doyle fanboys, which has led to a lot of {{in joke}}s and {{Shout Out}}s [[MythologyGag to the original stories in the show]]. On the whole, both new fans and old Conan Doyle purists quite liked it.

to:

* Creator/StevenMoffat and Creator/MarkGatiss of ''{{Franchise/Sherlock}}'' freely and frequently describe themselves as Arthur Conan Doyle fanboys, which has led to a lot of {{in joke}}s and {{Shout Out}}s [[MythologyGag to the original stories in the show]]. On the whole, both new fans and old Conan Doyle purists quite liked like it.



** Season 4 of ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'' merits special mention here. The producers of every modern Trek show (and some actors, most notably Tim Russ and Jolene Blalock) have been ''fans'', but S4 showrunner Manny Coto was a ''fanboy'', and the season he created was the sort of ContinuityPorn you either love or hate. In fact, ''Enterprise'' in general deliberately harked back to ''The Original Series'' (both in time frame and in the less than ensemble cast) alienating fans who started watching during ''The Next Generation''.
** In ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'', Ronald D. Moore became a promoted fanboy entirely by chance when his then-girlfriend (who also happened to be a set dresser for the show) gave him a tour of the studio and he had an opportunity to present the producers a fanscript he had written. Not only did the fanscript become an actual episode, "The Bonding," but Moore became one of the largest contributing writers of both ''The Next Generation'' and ''Deep Space Nine'', wrote many of the best episodes of both series (often collaborating with other talented writers who had different styles, such as the MindScrew-loving Brannon Braga and "anti-fanboy" Ira Steven Behr). Moore later created a series of his own: ''Series/{{Battlestar Galactica|2003}}''. Needless to say, he seems to be an especially talented "promoted fanboy."

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** Season 4 of ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'' merits special mention here. The producers of every modern Trek show (and some actors, most notably Tim Russ and Jolene Blalock) have been ''fans'', but S4 showrunner Manny Coto was a ''fanboy'', and the season he created was the sort of ContinuityPorn you either love or hate. In fact, ''Enterprise'' in general deliberately harked harks back to ''The Original Series'' (both in time frame and in the less than ensemble cast) cast), alienating fans who started watching during ''The Next Generation''.
** In ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'', Ronald D. Moore became a promoted fanboy entirely by chance when his then-girlfriend (who also happened to be a set dresser for the show) gave him a tour of the studio and he had an opportunity to present the producers a fanscript he had written. Not only did the fanscript become an actual episode, "The Bonding," but Moore became one of the largest contributing writers of both ''The Next Generation'' and ''Deep Space Nine'', Nine'' and wrote many of the best episodes of both series (often collaborating with other talented writers who had different styles, such as the MindScrew-loving Brannon Braga and "anti-fanboy" Ira Steven Behr). Moore later created a series of his own: ''Series/{{Battlestar Galactica|2003}}''. Needless to say, he seems to be an especially talented "promoted fanboy."PromotedFanboy.



* ''Franchise/PowerRangers'' has fans, too. The tenth anniversary season, ''Series/PowerRangersWildForce'', promoted long-time fan Amit Bhaumik to head writer status. Reactions are split: the season itself is considered abysmal, but that had just as much to do with Disney's buyout of the franchise, the cast and showrunner Jonathan Tzachor[[note]]who is known for being a fanboy... of the ''Franchise/SuperSentai'' source material, mandating that his ''Power Rangers'' seasons [[ShotForShotRemake skew as closely to the original Sentai programs as possible]][[/note]]; a mentality that led to previous head writer Judd Lynn quitting at the end of ''Series/PowerRangersTimeForce''. as the writing staff or anything else. On the other hand, there are the two (completely original) [[ReunionShow team-up specials]]. The traditional previous/current season cross is considered one of the best the franchise has to offer, as not only does it bring back a very popular cast, it also provides closure for the season's villains, manages to integrate the two teams almost seamlessly, and even provides some ShipTease: not only could [[ActionGirl Jen]] and Wes have a happier ending than previously thought, but so could ''TF's'' [[SixthRanger Eric]] and ''WF's'' Taylor. Meanwhile, the tenth anniversary special, despite being a banned topic on many message boards and ripping open plot hole upon plot hole, is still plenty entertaining, between the various {{continuity nod}}s and well-choreographed fight scenes. Notably, it also features a reference to a fan hoax known as "Scorpion Rain," which Bhaumik helped perpetuate; he noted that he wrote "Forever Red" as if "Scorpion Rain" was in continuity. See the {{fanon}} page for details.
* The whole ''Franchise/{{Stargate|Verse}}'' franchise, sort of. Some of the people working on it apparently hung out on fan forums and possibly got a lot of ideas there. There were even episodes with alternate universes or time lines in order to throw in some popular relationships or events that don't fit into the normal storyline (most of the characters in SG-1 were in the air force and so could not have romantic relationships). Also fans pointing out mistakes caused things to get changed, such as the steps of the gate room in Atlantis, which displayed Ancient writing with some lines out of order and upside down. It turns out they had already been fixed, but were "fixed" again in response to forum threads and ended up having to be rearranged some more. Who knows if they ever got it right. But after the fans started figuring out how to read the alien text, the art people started hiding messages. This may be more like PanderingToTheBase, except that they were in direct contact with the fan community.

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* ''Franchise/PowerRangers'' has fans, too. The tenth anniversary season, ''Series/PowerRangersWildForce'', promoted long-time fan Amit Bhaumik to head writer status. Reactions are split: the season itself is considered abysmal, but that had has just as much to do with Disney's buyout of the franchise, franchise and the cast and showrunner Jonathan Tzachor[[note]]who is known for being a fanboy... of the ''Franchise/SuperSentai'' source material, mandating that his ''Power Rangers'' seasons [[ShotForShotRemake skew as closely to the original Sentai programs as possible]][[/note]]; possible]]; a mentality that led to previous head writer Judd Lynn quitting at the end of ''Series/PowerRangersTimeForce''. ''Series/PowerRangersTimeForce''[[/note]] as the writing staff or anything else. On the other hand, there are the two (completely original) [[ReunionShow team-up specials]]. The traditional previous/current season cross is considered one of the best the franchise has to offer, as not only does it bring back a very popular cast, it also provides closure for the season's villains, manages to integrate the two teams almost seamlessly, and even provides some ShipTease: not only could can [[ActionGirl Jen]] and Wes have a happier ending than previously thought, but so could can ''TF's'' [[SixthRanger Eric]] and ''WF's'' Taylor. Meanwhile, the tenth anniversary special, despite being a banned topic on many message boards and ripping open plot hole upon plot hole, is still plenty entertaining, between the various {{continuity nod}}s and well-choreographed fight scenes. Notably, it also features a reference to a fan hoax known as "Scorpion Rain," which Bhaumik helped perpetuate; he noted that he wrote "Forever Red" as if "Scorpion Rain" was in continuity. See the {{fanon}} page for details.
* The whole ''Franchise/{{Stargate|Verse}}'' franchise, sort of. Some of the people working on it apparently hung out on fan forums and possibly got a lot of ideas there. There were are even episodes with alternate universes or time lines in order to throw in some popular relationships or events that don't fit into the normal storyline (most of the characters in SG-1 were are in the air force Air Force and so could not can't have romantic relationships). Also fans Fans pointing out mistakes also caused things to get changed, such as the steps of the gate room in Atlantis, which displayed Ancient writing with some lines out of order and upside down. It turns out they had already been fixed, but were "fixed" again in response to forum threads and ended up having to be rearranged some more. Who knows if they ever got it right. But after the fans started figuring out how to read the alien text, the art people started hiding messages. This may be more like PanderingToTheBase, except that they were in direct contact with the fan community.



* Wrestling/{{ECW}}, from Wrestling/{{Paul|Heyman}} [[DrinkingTheKoolAid "Drinking the Kool-Aid"]] [[Wrestling/PaulHeyman Heyman]], to PromotedFanboy "Loose Cannon of Commentary" Wrestling/JoeyStyles. (Although Heyman is generally regarded as a good booker... just a terrible businessman, and Styles is considered a fine commentator, if one with a reputation of not wanting to play ball with the WWE (however justifiably)).
* Wrestling/KevinNash had a stint as head booker in Wrestling/{{WCW}} towards the end of its existence and many saw it as a vehicle that he used to get himself over and knock down a few undercarders along the way. However this is more of an exception rather than a rule (wrestlers have served as head bookers in the past and don't often make the product about themselves, Wrestling/DustyRhodes being a key example as his booking is generally regarded as worthwhile, even if he was also in the product itself at the same time).

to:

* Wrestling/{{ECW}}, from Wrestling/{{Paul|Heyman}} [[DrinkingTheKoolAid "Drinking the Kool-Aid"]] [[Wrestling/PaulHeyman Heyman]], Heyman]] to PromotedFanboy "Loose Cannon of Commentary" Wrestling/JoeyStyles. (Although Heyman is generally regarded as a good booker... just a terrible businessman, and Styles is considered a fine commentator, if one with a reputation of not wanting to play ball with the WWE (however justifiably)).
* Wrestling/KevinNash had a stint as head booker in Wrestling/{{WCW}} towards the end of its existence existence, and many saw it as a vehicle that he used to get himself over and knock down a few undercarders along the way. However However, this is more of an exception rather than a rule (wrestlers rule; wrestlers have served as head bookers in the past and don't often make the product about themselves, themselves. Wrestling/DustyRhodes being is a key example example, as his booking is generally regarded as worthwhile, worthwhile even if he was also in the product itself at the same time).time.



* ''TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}'' does this religiously; multiple current writers for the line got their start creating fan works on the official forums.
** In a case of [[TropesAreTools Tropes Are Not Bad]], the main block of them (the Ink Monkeys) are often liked ''more'' than the original, professional authors. (Though not universally, of course - fanbases always split.)
** And for the culmination of the trope, they composed the team that patched up balance issues of the Second Edition (known as "Exalted 2.5") and are now involved in writing the whole new Third Edition.
* ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' had several reasons for this even aside of HouseRules tradition meeting Internet communities. "[=3rd=] party" supplements having [[InNameOnly little to do with]] established canon on any issue are okay and in D&D3 era even inevitable (due to OGL). Development for settings dropped while switching to new editions was taken over by fan communities, as some sort of {{Abandonware}}. And the new generation of designers ran free even through [=WotC/Hasbro=] {{sourcebook}}s supposed to be {{canon}}. A good thing for uncharted areas, but all too often it wasn't expansion, but walking over established parts so obliviously you almost hear "{{Squee}}!" from the page. Things could go smoother if this didn't coincide with the time when focus shifted from modelling specific settings to expanding universal rules, for fan enthusiasm knows no limits.
** Much of the Arthaus product line for the ''TabletopGame/{{Ravenloft}}'' D&D setting was authored by former members of the Kargatane, a team of fans responsible for Ravenloft-fandom's first major website, netbooks, and fanzine.

to:

* ''TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}'' does this religiously; multiple current writers for the line got their start creating fan works on the official forums.
**
forums. In a case of [[TropesAreTools Tropes Are Not Bad]], the main block of them (the Ink Monkeys) are often liked ''more'' than the original, professional authors. (Though not universally, of course - fanbases always split.)
** And for
) For the culmination of the trope, they composed the team that patched up balance issues of the Second Edition (known as "Exalted 2.5") and are now were involved in writing the whole new entirety of Third Edition.
* ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' had has several reasons for this even aside of from HouseRules tradition meeting Internet communities. "[=3rd=] party" supplements having [[InNameOnly little to do with]] established canon on any issue are okay okay, and in the D&D3 era even inevitable (due to the OGL). Development for settings dropped while switching to new editions was taken over by fan communities, as some sort of {{Abandonware}}. And the The new generation of designers ran free free, even through [=WotC/Hasbro=] {{sourcebook}}s are supposed to be {{canon}}. A good thing for uncharted areas, but all too often it wasn't isn't expansion, but walking over established parts so obliviously you almost hear "{{Squee}}!" from the page. Things could go have gone smoother if this didn't coincide with the time when focus shifted from modelling specific settings to expanding universal rules, for fan rules. Fan enthusiasm knows no limits.
** Much of the Arthaus product line for the ''TabletopGame/{{Ravenloft}}'' D&D setting was authored by former members of the Kargatane, a team of fans responsible for Ravenloft-fandom's the Ravenloft fandom's first major website, netbooks, and fanzine.



** The great shoehorning epidemy. Symptoms: a new feature is accompanied by instructions how to stick it ''everywhere'', whether the target has a place for it or not. During the outbreak it was a safe bet that a new "Pearl Diver" class will contain the ways to use it in every existing setting... even desert ones.
** Variety of stuff, sometimes [[{{Animesque}} weird]], fans of other works bring in whether it makes sense -- as in, "we need some huge space monsters in ''TabletopGame/{{Spelljammer}}'', let's add a giant turtle with a wink to ''Franchise/{{Gamera}}'' -- and where it doesn't -- as in...

to:

** The great shoehorning epidemy. Symptoms: a new feature is accompanied by instructions how to stick it ''everywhere'', whether the target has a place for it or not. During the outbreak outbreak, it was a safe bet that a new "Pearl Diver" class will would contain the ways to use it in every existing setting... even desert ones.
** Variety A variety of stuff, sometimes [[{{Animesque}} weird]], is brought in by fans of other works bring in whether it makes sense -- as in, "we need some huge space monsters in ''TabletopGame/{{Spelljammer}}'', let's add a giant turtle with a wink to ''Franchise/{{Gamera}}'' -- and where it doesn't or not -- as in...



*** When the new generation of developers sometimes can't even make up a good name, we have books named after artifacts from earlier editions, or something like [[http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?articleid=2651 this]] Magazine/{{Dragon}}: ''[[TabletopGame/GeistTheSinEaters Sin Eaters]] of Eilistraee'' (from one of ''[[http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=411 Lords of Madness]]: The Book of [[WhatMeasureIsANonCute Aberrations]]'' authors). Nope, not an April issue.

to:

*** When the new generation of developers sometimes can't even make up a good name, we have books named after artifacts from earlier editions, or something like [[http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?articleid=2651 this]] Magazine/{{Dragon}}: ''[[TabletopGame/GeistTheSinEaters Sin Eaters]] of Eilistraee'' (from one of ''[[http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=411 Lords of Madness]]: The Book of [[WhatMeasureIsANonCute Aberrations]]'' Aberrations'' authors). Nope, not an April issue.



*** And now 5th edition is a return to form in many ways, making this something of a CyclicTrope.

to:

*** And now ** 5th edition Edition is a return to form in many ways, making this something of a CyclicTrope.



* This is the entire point of ''TabletopGame/{{Legend of the Five Rings}}''. Winning (and, sometimes, losing) Tournaments has explicit story consequences that range from choosing a bride for a particular character, to choosing who gets to be the new Emperor. This has varying effects on the story's quality based on whether the tournament winner cares much about narrative consistency, or just wants to annoy the writers.
** In one infamous case, an entire story arc was derailed by the Honorable Dragon Movement, a group of players who refused to play corrupted decks in an era when the Dragon could basically only win by massive levels of corruption. This ended up [[HeelFaceTurn turning Hitomi]] from the BigBad of the arc into one of the greatest heroes in the Empire's history, [[AssPull in a way many found dissatisfying]]. As a side bonus, she ended up becoming the Moon.

to:

* This is the entire point of ''TabletopGame/{{Legend of the Five Rings}}''. Winning (and, sometimes, losing) Tournaments has explicit story consequences that range from choosing a bride for a particular character, to choosing who gets to be the new Emperor. This has varying effects on the story's quality based on whether the tournament winner cares much about narrative consistency, or just wants to annoy the writers.
**
writers. In one infamous case, an entire story arc was derailed by the Honorable Dragon Movement, a group of players who refused to play corrupted decks in an era when the Dragon could basically only win by massive levels of corruption. This ended up [[HeelFaceTurn turning Hitomi]] from the BigBad of the arc into one of the greatest heroes in the Empire's history, [[AssPull in a way many found dissatisfying]]. As a side bonus, she ended up becoming the Moon.



* There are quite a few Franchise/{{LEGO}} set designers, PR workers and other staff who started out as prolific members of LEGO's large PeripheryDemographic. General consensus is that modern set design is for the most part so much the better for it, and it certainly contributes nicely to LEGO's extensive efforts to keep involved with the fandom and its events.

to:

* There are quite a few Franchise/{{LEGO}} set designers, PR workers and other staff who started out as prolific members of LEGO's large PeripheryDemographic. General consensus is that modern set design is for the most part so much the ''much'' better for it, and it certainly contributes nicely to LEGO's extensive efforts to keep involved with the fandom and its events.



* [=NeverSoft=] were {{Big Name Fan}}s of the ''VideoGame/GuitarHero'' series prior to Creator/{{Harmonix}}'s departure. After Harmonix left, they took over the series and made a lot of [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks questionable changes]] to the series including ''Guitar Hero III's'' infamous [[LuckBasedMission "Guitar Battles"]], FakeDifficulty, and market oversaturation of {{Mission Pack Sequel}}s, leading to [[FranchiseKiller the eventual death of the series]] [[GenreKiller (and plastic instrument video games in general)]].
* Tom Hulett and Simon Lai, the producers of ''[[VideoGame/{{Contra}} Contra 4]]'' for the Nintendo DS, both admit to being bigger fans of the earlier ''Contra'' games for the NES and SNES than the BossRush-filled later sequels like ''Hard Corps'' and ''Shattered Soldier'', making ''Contra 4'' as a homage to those early installments. Hulett in particular also admits to being a fan of the gag localizations of the early titles instead of the more direct and serious localizations of recent titles, which is why the manual of ''Contra 4'' is written in such a tongue-in-cheek tone similar to Konami's manuals during the NES era and which is why the two new main characters accompanying Bill and Lance are named Mad Dog and Scorpion, [[MythologyGag which were the nicknames given to Bill and Lance in the early American versions]]. However, they also retconned the events of ''Operation C'' from being a previous mission of Bill Rizer, to being a previous of the "new characters" Mad Dog and Scorpion.
* This goes all the way back to VideoGame/{{DOOM}} - the 'Final DOOM' mission pack, released by ID themselves, was two 'fan' teams creating full episodes. Whether or not this qualifies as this trope, or as AscendedFanboy, depends on who you ask.

to:

* [=NeverSoft=] were {{Big Name Fan}}s of the ''VideoGame/GuitarHero'' series prior to Creator/{{Harmonix}}'s departure. After Harmonix left, they took over the series and made a lot of [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks questionable changes]] to the series series, including ''Guitar Hero III's'' infamous [[LuckBasedMission "Guitar Battles"]], FakeDifficulty, and market oversaturation of {{Mission Pack Sequel}}s, leading Sequel}}s that lead to [[FranchiseKiller the eventual death of the series]] [[GenreKiller (and plastic instrument video games in general)]].
* Tom Hulett and Simon Lai, the producers of ''[[VideoGame/{{Contra}} Contra 4]]'' for the Nintendo DS, both admit to being bigger fans of the earlier ''Contra'' games for the NES and SNES than the BossRush-filled later sequels like ''Hard Corps'' and ''Shattered Soldier'', making ''Contra 4'' as a homage to those early installments. Hulett in particular also admits to being a fan of the gag localizations of the early titles instead of the more direct and serious localizations of recent titles, which is why the manual of ''Contra 4'' is written in such a tongue-in-cheek tone similar to Konami's manuals during the NES era and which is why the two new main characters accompanying Bill and Lance are named Mad Dog and Scorpion, [[MythologyGag which were the nicknames given to Bill and Lance in the early American versions]]. However, they also retconned the events of ''Operation C'' from being a previous mission of Bill Rizer, Rizer to being a previous of the "new characters" Mad Dog and Scorpion.
* This goes all the way back to VideoGame/{{DOOM}} - the 'Final DOOM' "Final DOOM" mission pack, released by ID themselves, was two 'fan' "fan" teams creating full episodes. Whether or not this qualifies as this trope, trope or as AscendedFanboy, AscendedFanboy depends on who you ask.



* The ''VideoGame/SoulSeries'' had been run by creator Hiroaki Yatoriyama from the beginning all the way until ''Soulcalibur IV''. Then he stepped down as leader, and in his place was director Daishi Odashima and producer Hisaharu Tago. These two were the ones responsible for ''Soulcalibur V''. Many noted the [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks changes they made]], due to having a 17 year TimeSkip. This meant [[ReplacementScrappy replacing many of the veterans]] with blatantly {{anime}}-inspired characters, and a story that focused entirely on Patroklos Alexander, son of series veteran Sophitia, on his quest to save his sister Pyrrha. It's been pointed out that the whole story and characters feel very much like personal {{fan fiction}} being made into reality, instead of an actual sequel to ''Soulcalibur''. Even from a gameplay perspective, it borrowed many of its gameplay mechanics from ''Franchise/StreetFighter'' (and Daishi wasn't shy to admit being a fan of ''[[VideoGame/StreetFighterIII Third Strike]]''). Now both of those men are gone, and the series is now under the leadership of Masaki Hoshino. Only time will tell what he will do with the franchise as a whole, but so far he's made two poorly received FreeToPlay games, ''Lost Swords'' and ''Unbreakable Soul'', that were ultimately terminated from service. Many have pointed out Hoshino's marketing is based on [[SexSells sex appeal]], something that was downplayed when Daishi was in charge, and has been compared to ''VideoGame/{{Dead or Alive}}''.
* CantrII: The creator has largely left the game, leaving it to some staff to manage things. Over time, this has resulted in what has been referred to as the [[DrunkWithPower Internet]] [[ScrewTheRulesIMakeThem Illness]]. Basically, any [[{{GIFT}}normal person getting a chance to live out their powertrip fantasies, and going for broke]]. HilarityEnsues

to:

* The ''VideoGame/SoulSeries'' had been run by creator Hiroaki Yatoriyama from the beginning all the way until ''Soulcalibur IV''. Then he stepped down as leader, and in his place was were director Daishi Odashima and producer Hisaharu Tago. These two were the ones responsible for ''Soulcalibur V''. Many noted the [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks changes they made]], due to having a 17 year TimeSkip. This meant [[ReplacementScrappy replacing many of the veterans]] with blatantly {{anime}}-inspired characters, and a story that focused entirely on Patroklos Alexander, son of series veteran Sophitia, on his quest to save his sister Pyrrha. It's been pointed out that the whole story and characters feel very much like personal {{fan fiction}} being made into reality, instead of an actual sequel to ''Soulcalibur''. Even from a gameplay perspective, it borrowed many of its gameplay mechanics from ''Franchise/StreetFighter'' (and Daishi wasn't shy to admit being a fan of ''[[VideoGame/StreetFighterIII Third Strike]]''). Now both Both of those men are gone, and left, placing the series is now under the leadership of Masaki Hoshino. Only time will tell what he will do with the franchise as a whole, but so far he's made From his tenure came two poorly received FreeToPlay games, ''Lost Swords'' and ''Unbreakable Soul'', that which were ultimately terminated from service. Many have pointed out that Hoshino's marketing is based on [[SexSells sex appeal]], something that was downplayed when Daishi was in charge, and has been compared to ''VideoGame/{{Dead or Alive}}''.
* CantrII: ''VideoGame/CantrII'': The creator has largely left the game, leaving it to some staff to manage things. Over time, this has resulted in what has been referred to as the [[DrunkWithPower Internet]] [[ScrewTheRulesIMakeThem Illness]]. Basically, any [[{{GIFT}}normal [[{{GIFT}} normal person getting gets a chance to live out their powertrip fantasies, and going go for broke]]. HilarityEnsuesHilarityEnsues.



* ''Webcomic/{{Exiern}}'', original creator and writer Drowemos first ''sold'' the comic to fan and author Dan Standing. As one of his first acts in charge, Standing invited fans to submit scripts to become the main writers. The first of these main writers to be selected from within the fanbase is Thomas Knapp.

to:

* ''Webcomic/{{Exiern}}'', ''Webcomic/{{Exiern}}'': The original creator and writer Drowemos first ''sold'' the comic to fan and author Dan Standing. As one of his first acts in charge, Standing invited fans to submit scripts to become the main writers. The first of these main writers to be selected from within the fanbase is Thomas Knapp.



* It's only been in small capacities, but the members of TeamFourStar have started to be included in actual "Dragonball" projects, like "Xenoverse" and "Resurrection: F."
* Parodied in [[WebVideo/UltraFastPony Ultra Fast Pony]], when a "writer strike" has lead to the show having to resort to hiring a fan who said they would work for free, if the were allowed to be in an episode. Cue every negative FanFiction Stereo-type ever.

to:

* It's only been in small capacities, but the members of TeamFourStar have started to be included in actual "Dragonball" ''Dragon Ball'' projects, like "Xenoverse" ''Xenoverse'' and "Resurrection: ''Resurrection: F."
''
* Parodied in [[WebVideo/UltraFastPony Ultra Fast Pony]], when a "writer strike" has lead leads to the show having to resort to hiring a fan who said they would work for free, if the they were allowed to be in an episode. Cue every negative FanFiction Stereo-type stereotype ever.



* Franchise/{{Transformers}} has a lot of this, with many current writers and artists for the shows and comics being long-time fans. It's frequently cited as an example of this trope [[TropesAreNotBad done right]] as many feel that the franchise has been steadily increasing in quality in recent years.
** ''WesternAnimation/TransformersAnimated'' is what happens when these fans have a whole shiny new continuity-sandbox to play around in. The result is loads and loads of {{mythology gag}}s, the RuleOfCool reigning supreme, a kid-companion who ''doesn't suck'', [[TropesAreNotBad and a very, very happy audience]]. This was raised UpToEleven in the Japanese dub, when '''Music/JamProject''' sings the opening theme in that version.
* ''WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons'' has suffered from this, with new generations of writers who were brought up on and inspired by the more surreal and extreme aspects of the show's humor, focusing on that to the detriment of the characters.
** Not to mention the fact that it seems a lot of the writers had different views of the characters, leading to skews in personality ''per episode''.
** It's fairly easy to trace when the show started to be truly run by people who were big fans when they were younger. Once they did, you began to see things like Homer having all the skin completely ripped off his torso, leaving his bones and organs visible, and shrugging it off and going about his business. Things like this made no sense for an episode of the show from early on... but it's ''exactly'' like something that would happen in a Treehouse of Horror episode, which were always the most popular and often most rerun episodes of the show. So when fans took over, of course they wanted to write episodes in the style of their favorites ''all the time'' instead of waiting for once a year.
*** This might also explain the increasing frequency of ThreeShorts WholePlotReference episodes.

to:

* Franchise/{{Transformers}} ''Franchise/{{Transformers}}'' has a lot of this, with many current writers and artists for the shows and comics being long-time fans. It's frequently cited as an example of this trope [[TropesAreNotBad done right]] right]], as many feel that the franchise has been steadily increasing in quality in recent years.
quality.
** ''WesternAnimation/TransformersAnimated'' is what happens when these fans have a whole shiny new continuity-sandbox to play around in. The result is loads and loads of {{mythology gag}}s, the RuleOfCool reigning supreme, a kid-companion who ''doesn't suck'', [[TropesAreNotBad and a very, very happy audience]]. This was raised UpToEleven in the Japanese dub, when where '''Music/JamProject''' sings the opening theme in that version.
theme.
* ''WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons'' has suffered from this, with new generations of writers who were brought up on and inspired by the more surreal and extreme aspects of the show's humor, humor focusing on that to the detriment of the characters.
** Not to mention the fact that it
characters. It seems a lot of the writers had different views of the characters, leading to skews in personality ''per episode''.
** It's fairly easy to trace when the show started to be truly run by people who were big fans when they were younger. Once they did, you began to see things like Homer having all the skin completely ripped off his torso, leaving his bones and organs visible, and shrugging it off and going about his business. Things like this made no sense for an episode of the show from early on... but it's ''exactly'' like something that would happen in a Treehouse ''Treehouse of Horror Horror'' episode, which were have always been the most popular and often most rerun episodes of the show. So when fans took over, of course they wanted to write episodes in the style of their favorites ''all the time'' instead of waiting for once a year.
***
year. This might also explain the increasing frequency of ThreeShorts WholePlotReference episodes.



* ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars'' got a whole board of writers that were fans with all the references and overly long mythology gags they pack in the show. The most prominent example would be Dave Filoni's favourite character, Plo Koon, which is often mentioned on the SW websites and DVD extras. Other than the overuse of "Bad feeling about this", there is no real difference now that the inmates have control.
* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'' has a variation on this. Creator/LaurenFaust, the main creative force for the show, had a habit of playing with MLP figures when she was a kid and making up her own personalities for them (although those personalities were usually at least to a certain degree based on the characters canonical ones). Said personalities became the basis for the main cast of her show. [[TropesAreNotBad This wasn't a bad thing]], since she took a franchise whose previous animated adaptations were mostly considered lazy commercials to sell toys, and made a show with interesting characters, good writing, and nice animation.
** Putting your own ideas in a reboot is one thing, but what was the first thing Katie Cook and Andy Price did when they made the [[ComicBook/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicIDW comic adaptation]]? Canonize Derpy’s love for muffins. Also, the characters use lots of brony terminology, like “flank” for “butt.”
* ''WesternAnimation/{{Ben 10 Omniverse}}'' makes use of this, as [[RecycledScript there are many scripts identical to previous episodes of other iterations]], [[CanonDiscontinuity blatantly ignoring some of the most oft-criticized aspects of the previous sequels]] (or in some cases, ones that [[BrokenBase break the base]]), bringing Ben uncomfortably close to his first series incarnation that ignores the maturing of the previous sequels, as well as character designs much closer to the first series. Whether or not you're fine with these is up to personal taste.

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars'' got a whole board of writers that were fans with fans, and made it clear from all the references and overly long mythology gags they pack in the show. The most prominent example would be Dave Filoni's favourite character, Plo Koon, which who is often mentioned on the SW websites and DVD extras. Other than the overuse of "Bad "I've got a bad feeling about this", there is no real difference now that the inmates have control.
* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'' has a variation on this. Creator/LaurenFaust, the main creative force for the show, had a habit of playing with MLP figures when she was a kid and making up her own personalities for them (although those personalities were usually at least to a certain degree based on the characters characters' canonical ones). Said personalities became the basis for the main cast of her show. [[TropesAreNotBad This wasn't a bad thing]], since she took a franchise whose previous animated adaptations were mostly considered [[MerchandiseDriven lazy commercials to sell toys, toy commercials]] and made a show with interesting characters, good writing, and nice animation.
** Putting your own ideas in a reboot is one thing, but what was the first thing Katie Cook and Andy Price did when they made the [[ComicBook/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicIDW comic adaptation]]? Canonize Derpy’s love for muffins. Also, the characters use lots of brony terminology, like “flank” for “butt.”
* ''WesternAnimation/{{Ben 10 Omniverse}}'' makes use of this, as [[RecycledScript there are many scripts identical to previous episodes of other iterations]], [[CanonDiscontinuity blatantly ignoring some of the most oft-criticized aspects of the previous sequels]] (or in some cases, ones that [[BrokenBase break the base]]), and bringing Ben uncomfortably close to his first series incarnation that ignores while ignoring the maturing of the previous sequels, as well as sequels. The character designs are also much closer to the first series. Whether or not you're fine with these is up to personal taste.



* Just about all we know of the philosopher Creator/{{Socrates}} is through the writing of his fanboy, Creator/{{Plato}}. There has been much argument as to how much is really Socrates, and how much was Plato using his dead hero as a mouth puppet. Diogenes of Sinope had some scathing opinions on the subject.

to:

* Just about all we know of the philosopher Creator/{{Socrates}} is through the writing of his fanboy, Creator/{{Plato}}. There has been much argument as to how much is really Socrates, and how much was Plato using his dead hero as a mouth puppet.mouthpiece. Diogenes of Sinope had some scathing opinions on the subject.
13th Nov '16 5:01:35 AM IndirectActiveTransport
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13th Nov '16 4:50:22 AM IndirectActiveTransport
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** And now they've taken it even further with The New 52, removing numerous characters from continuity and retconning stories that were created post-Crisis. More than anything, there's retconning Wonder Woman from being an immaculate birth to the biological daughter of Zeus and Cassie Sandsmark to being Zeus' granddaughter. Other characters are no longer in existence, like Wally West and fellow speedsters Max Mercury and Jessie Quick, Donna Troy, and most notably, Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown while restoring Barbara Gordon to being Batgirl and reverting her to her Pre-Crisis backstory (Commissioner Gordon's biological daughter and a WideEyedIdealist of sorts rather than his adopted niece with a cynical outlook due to her first hand experience with Joker). [[note]]A lot of fans are upset but not surprised by Cassandra and Stephanie, given [=DiDio's=] attempts to derail and discard them in the past. Fans are split on Barbara: On one hand, reverting a disabled yet powerful character to what is seen as her inferior persona and what many believe is a much less competent portrayal of her, along with giving her back her legs (removing the most iconic disabled hero, leaving few, if none, in mainstream comics) is seen as incredibly insulting to her legacy and highly offensive, but others, due to Barbara being liked by fans, like the fact that what was originally a serious case of Women in Refrigerators has been undone and do appreciate a more human Barbara.[[/note]] Overall, it seems more or less clear that someone high in DC's editorial who got control during the mid 00s has some serious issues specifically with characters introduced post-Crisis that replaced the superheroes of the Silver Age (provided they were DC characters at that time, which is probably why Jaime Reyes remains Blue Beetle and Ted Kord also is so far nowhere to be found). Though there are hints now that Donna will eventually appear in the New 52, and Stephanie Brown has returned, and Wally is set to appear in 2014.

to:

** And now they've taken it even further with The New 52, removing numerous characters from continuity and retconning stories that were created post-Crisis. More than anything, there's retconning Wonder Woman from being an immaculate birth to the biological daughter of Zeus and Cassie Sandsmark to being Zeus' granddaughter. Other characters are no longer in existence, like Wally West and fellow speedsters Max Mercury and Jessie Quick, Donna Troy, and most notably, Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown while restoring Barbara Gordon to being Batgirl and reverting her to her Pre-Crisis backstory (Commissioner Gordon's biological daughter and a WideEyedIdealist of sorts rather than his adopted niece with a cynical outlook due to her first hand experience with Joker). [[note]]A lot of fans are upset but not surprised by Cassandra and Stephanie, given [=DiDio's=] attempts to derail and discard them in the past. Fans are split on Barbara: On one hand, reverting a disabled yet powerful character to what is seen as her inferior persona and what many believe is a much less competent portrayal of her, along with giving her back her legs (removing the most iconic disabled hero, leaving few, if none, in mainstream comics) is seen as incredibly insulting to her legacy and highly offensive, but others, due to Barbara being liked by fans, like the fact that what was originally a serious case of Women in Refrigerators has been undone and do appreciate a more human Barbara.[[/note]] Overall, it seems more or less clear that someone high in DC's editorial who got control during the mid 00s has some serious issues specifically with characters introduced post-Crisis that replaced the superheroes of the Silver Age (provided they were DC characters at that time, which is probably why Jaime Reyes remains Blue Beetle and Ted Kord also is so far nowhere to be found). Though there are hints now that Donna will eventually appear in the New 52, and Stephanie Brown has returned, and Wally is set to appear in 2014. Also, for all the "Silver Age" favoritism, the preceding golden age characters don't get nearly as much respect, with there being particular outcry over New 52's treatment of Alan Scott and Earth 2 Superman, the latter necessitating an AuthorsSavingThrow but making it clear it wasn't merely taking things back to the way they used to be so much as when ''I'' got into comics.



** Gwen was killed off because Conway wanted to kill off Aunt May, but the editors wouldn't let him, and told him to kill off Gwen instead. Its not confirmed if it was indeed a case of him personally preferring Mary Jane.

to:

** Gwen was killed off because Conway wanted to kill off Aunt May, but the editors wouldn't let him, and told him to kill off Gwen instead. Its It's not confirmed if it was indeed a case of him personally preferring Mary Jane.
26th Sep '16 7:09:26 PM Ramidel
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Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Anime and Manga]]
* The ''Franchise/{{Gundam}}'' franchise is older than many of its present writers, who often grew up surrounded by Gunpla models, and it's started to show. ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamUnicorn'' is a standout example - it's so full of ContinuityPorn that it hardly counts as a standalone series, and it also provides a platform for its writers to [[ArmedWithCanon throw the Federation's morals into question and reinterpret a secondary motivation of a villain from another series]].
[[/folder]]
24th Sep '16 8:58:05 AM Morgenthaler
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* ''Film/SupermanReturns'' is a textbook example. Creator/BryanSinger, having turned the [[KudzuPlot extremely convoluted]], SpaceOpera-esque ''Comicbook/XMen'' universe into two down-to-earth, accessible and critically acclaimed hits (''Film/XMen1'' and ''Film/X2XMenUnited''), was hired on the assumption that he'd do the same with Superman. The important difference was that Singer was initially not an ''X-Men'' fan at all, and thus understood what other non-fans (i.e. millions of movie-goers) would find compelling about the source material and made the movies around that stuff. ''Film/SupermanTheMovie'', on the other hand, was one of his favorite films, and thus the franchise-making blockbuster he was entrusted to deliver wound up as some sort of vague sequel to films that came out 30 years earlier PACKED with [[ContinuityPorn dozens of quotes and forced homages]] to said films in lieu of new material, and a bizarre plot featuring [[spoiler:Superman as the absentee father of a maybe-half-Kryptonian child which Lois might not remember conceiving depending on whether or not he erased her memory of their affair from either version of ''Film/SupermanII'', prior to the events this film, which they don't explain]]. It did not go over well, and a [[Film/ManOfSteel reboot]] began just seven years after ''Returns'' came out.

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* ''Film/SupermanReturns'' is a textbook example. Creator/BryanSinger, having who at that point had turned the [[KudzuPlot extremely convoluted]], SpaceOpera-esque ''Comicbook/XMen'' universe into two down-to-earth, accessible and critically acclaimed hits (''Film/XMen1'' and ''Film/X2XMenUnited''), was hired on the assumption that he'd do the same with Superman. The important difference was that Singer was initially not an ''X-Men'' fan at all, and thus understood what other non-fans (i.e. millions of movie-goers) would find compelling about the source material and made the movies around that stuff. ''Film/SupermanTheMovie'', on the other hand, was one of his favorite films, and thus the franchise-making blockbuster he was entrusted to deliver wound up as some sort of vague sequel to films that came out 30 years earlier PACKED with [[ContinuityPorn dozens of quotes and forced homages]] to said films in lieu of new material, and a bizarre plot featuring [[spoiler:Superman as the absentee father of a maybe-half-Kryptonian child which Lois might not remember conceiving depending on whether or not he erased her memory of their affair from either version of ''Film/SupermanII'', prior to the events this film, which they don't explain]]. It did not go over well, and a [[Film/ManOfSteel reboot]] began just seven years after ''Returns'' came out.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.RunningTheAsylum