History Main / ReformedButRejected

11th Jun '18 8:56:51 AM MCanter89
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Often the disinclination to believe that a character has truly become good is not limited to just the hero or heroes, but is the reaction of [[AllOfTheOtherReindeer society in general.]] The reformed character can find this a bitter pill to swallow, particularly if they have "done their time" in prison, or paid their debt to society in some other way, yet find that society is not prepared to let bygones be bygones.

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Often the disinclination to believe that a character has truly become good is not limited to just the hero or heroes, but is the reaction of [[AllOfTheOtherReindeer society in general.]] general]]. The reformed character can find this a bitter pill to swallow, particularly if they have "done their time" in prison, prison or paid their debt to society in some other way, yet find that society is not prepared to let bygones be bygones.



In the worst case, the pressure is too much and the reformed character's resolve falters and fails. [[ChronicVillainy He returns to his old bad ways,]] often ending up in jail again. He may even become so despairing that he [[DrivenToSuicide takes his own life]] rather than live with non-stop contempt and derision. To rub salt in it, the heroes might take this as proof that he really had never changed at all, and in the case of bad writing this will be how the story interprets it.

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In the worst case, the pressure is too much and the reformed character's resolve falters and fails. [[ChronicVillainy He returns to his old bad ways,]] ways]], often ending up in jail again. He may even become so despairing that he [[DrivenToSuicide takes his own life]] rather than live with non-stop contempt and derision. To rub salt in it, the heroes might take this as proof that he really had never changed at all, and in the case of bad writing writing, this will be how the story interprets it.



The greatest danger for a ReformedButRejected character, however, is not InspectorJavert, but bad karma. [[RedemptionEqualsDeath It might be safer to just stay bad,]] [[ThenLetMeBeEvil or just outright go worse if they were bad to begin with.]]

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The greatest danger for a ReformedButRejected Reformed But Rejected character, however, is not InspectorJavert, but bad karma. [[RedemptionEqualsDeath It might be safer to just stay bad,]] [[ThenLetMeBeEvil or just outright go worse if they were bad to begin with.]]
with]].



Like any trope dealing with {{Heel Face Turn}}s, this page is likely to contain '''spoilers.''' Tread carefully.

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Like any trope dealing with {{Heel Face Turn}}s, this page is likely to contain '''spoilers.''' '''spoilers'''. Tread carefully.



* Faust VIII from ''Manga/ShamanKing'' went through this too after his HeelFaceTurn, specially in regards to Yoh's friend Manta Oyamada whom Faust had tortured ''very'' painfully in the past. A whole episode in the anime was dedicated to him trying to act more human towards Manta and Manta himself being, ''very'' understandably, shit scared of Faust. [[spoiler: He only gains Manta's trust when, during his/Ryuu/Yoh's fight with some shamans that Manta had befriended a while ago, he refuses to kill their rivals and tells them to live for the sake of their son.]]

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* Faust VIII from ''Manga/ShamanKing'' went through this too after his HeelFaceTurn, specially in regards to Yoh's friend Manta Oyamada whom Faust had tortured ''very'' painfully in the past. A whole episode in the anime was dedicated to him trying to act more human towards Manta and Manta himself being, ''very'' understandably, shit scared of Faust. [[spoiler: He [[spoiler:He only gains Manta's trust when, during his/Ryuu/Yoh's fight with some shamans that Manta had befriended a while ago, he refuses to kill their rivals and tells them to live for the sake of their son.]]



* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'':

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* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'':''TabletopGame/Warhammer40000'':



* [[spoiler: Vanessa]] in ''Literature/{{Fablehaven}}'' is distrusted strongly enough by the main characters, partially for their actions as TheMole and partially because their means of doing so was [[BrainwashedAndCrazy quite insidious.]] Thus, when they claim to have changed (at least, when allowed out of their [[AndIMustScream absolutely safe prison]]), including being genuine friends with one of the characters, ''no one'' believes them and most of the crew refuses to take them back. Eventually, they do so [[TheBestWeGot out of sheer desperation.]]

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* [[spoiler: Vanessa]] [[spoiler:Vanessa]] in ''Literature/{{Fablehaven}}'' is distrusted strongly enough by the main characters, partially for their actions as TheMole and partially because their means of doing so was [[BrainwashedAndCrazy quite insidious.]] insidious]]. Thus, when they claim to have changed (at least, when allowed out of their [[AndIMustScream absolutely safe prison]]), including being genuine friends with one of the characters, ''no one'' believes them and most of the crew refuses to take them back. Eventually, they do so [[TheBestWeGot out of sheer desperation.]]desperation]].



* In ''VideoGame/RomancingSaGa: Minstrel Song'', one of the short stories BrokenBird Schiele tells your hero takes a particularly cruel twist on this: [[spoiler: A reformed pirate raises several children he had orphaned, only to have them take out their revenge after reaching adulthood.]]

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* In ''VideoGame/RomancingSaGa: Minstrel Song'', one of the short stories BrokenBird Schiele tells your hero takes a particularly cruel twist on this: [[spoiler: A [[spoiler:A reformed pirate raises several children he had orphaned, only to have them take out their revenge after reaching adulthood.]]



** ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Awakening]]'' gives us a rare male BrokenBird in the form of [[spoiler:King Gangrel...[[AxCrazy yes, that Gangrel.]] Should you recruit him in his Spotpass chapter, the player will discover, via supports and quotes, that he regrets ''all'' of the actions that he did for the first part of the game on an incredibly deep level, and he has absolutely nothing left to fight for. The Avatar cuts him a break (moreso if a female Avatar marries him), and he even looks out for [[LaserGuidedAmnesia Emmeryn]], the same woman he wanted dead, if she joins your group. Despite most of his actions being unjustifiable, Chrom is never able to forgive him. And Gangrel is ''painfully'' aware of how this is a consequence of his own actions -- even when he had a ''massive'' DarkAndTroubledPast, this is not enough of a reason for him to do the horrible things he did. (Walhart and Aversa, the other Atoners of the game, at least did the just-as-bad things they did after being brainwashed/manipulated by the Grimleal, unlike Gangrel who did them ''out of his own will''.)]]

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** ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Awakening]]'' gives us a rare male BrokenBird in the form of [[spoiler:King Gangrel... [[AxCrazy yes, that Gangrel.]] Gangrel]]. Should you recruit him in his Spotpass chapter, the player will discover, via supports and quotes, that he regrets ''all'' of the actions that he did for the first part of the game on an incredibly deep level, and he has absolutely nothing left to fight for. The Avatar cuts him a break (moreso if a female Avatar marries him), and he even looks out for [[LaserGuidedAmnesia Emmeryn]], the same woman he wanted dead, if she joins your group. Despite most of his actions being unjustifiable, Chrom is never able to forgive him. And Gangrel is ''painfully'' aware of how this is a consequence of his own actions -- even when he had a ''massive'' DarkAndTroubledPast, this is not enough of a reason for him to do the horrible things he did. (Walhart and Aversa, the other Atoners of the game, at least did the just-as-bad things they did after being brainwashed/manipulated by the Grimleal, unlike Gangrel who did them ''out of his own will''.)]]



** Subverted with [[spoiler: Elnora]], who puts on a facade of being an air-headed repenter, but in fact displays disturbing sociopathy in her ApocalypticLog.
** Most characters... [[TheDragon Saren,]] or [[TheChessmaster The Illusive Man,]] or even [[BigBad Harbinger]] or Morinth are people Shepard can at least be civil to. Not so with Gavin Archer: Shepard shows utter disgust that he tortured his autistic brother regardless of alignment, and if s\he sees him in the third game s/he treats him like utter shit.
* The aversion of this trope is notable in the Sith Warrior story in ''VideoGame/StarWarsTheOldRepublic''. After [[spoiler: the betrayal of Malavai Quinn (in the beta you could kill him as a result but in the final game you can't kill your companions)]] there isn't even a hint in the conversations that the player character might not trust him because of those events, which would actually be very understandable.

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** Subverted with [[spoiler: Elnora]], [[spoiler:Elnora]], who puts on a facade façade of being an air-headed repenter, but in fact displays disturbing sociopathy in her ApocalypticLog.
** Most characters... [[TheDragon Saren,]] Saren]], or [[TheChessmaster The the Illusive Man,]] Man]], or even [[BigBad Harbinger]] or Morinth are people Shepard can at least be civil to. Not so with Gavin Archer: Shepard shows utter disgust that he tortured his autistic brother regardless of alignment, and if s\he s/he sees him in the third game game, s/he treats him like utter shit.
* The aversion of this trope is notable in the Sith Warrior story in ''VideoGame/StarWarsTheOldRepublic''. After [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the betrayal of Malavai Quinn (in the beta you could kill him as a result but in the final game you can't kill your companions)]] there isn't even a hint in the conversations that the player character might not trust him because of those events, which would actually be very understandable.



** Similar to Spike in ''Buffy'', Avalanche once tried to join the good guys to get closer to Kitty, but Logan and Scott end up blaming him for some recent Joyrides. Justified however, in that Avalanche did everything he could to make them ''not'' trust him: He failed two tests on purpose for the sake of annoying Scott/showing off to Kitty, taunted Scott after his car was trashed and though he knew who ''was'' joyriding, didn't even try to defend himself from the accusations. Considering the [[JerkAss way he always acted towards him]], Scott's attitude and mild hazing is understandable and, while often forgotten, he ''did'' try to give him a chance at first but was put off by the fact that Lance was still fairly antagonistic towards him, and in he end apologized for acting unfairly. Not like the [[DracoInLeatherPants Brotherhood fans]] [[RonTheDeathEater will remember that detail]]. Still, at least [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Lance did honestly try to help eventually.]]

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** Similar to Spike in ''Buffy'', Avalanche once tried to join the good guys to get closer to Kitty, but Logan and Scott end up blaming him for some recent Joyrides. Justified however, in that Avalanche did everything he could to make them ''not'' trust him: He failed two tests on purpose for the sake of annoying Scott/showing off to Kitty, taunted Scott after his car was trashed and though he knew who ''was'' joyriding, didn't even try to defend himself from the accusations. Considering the [[JerkAss [[{{Jerkass}} way he always acted towards him]], Scott's attitude and mild hazing is understandable and, while often forgotten, he ''did'' try to give him a chance at first but was put off by the fact that Lance was still fairly antagonistic towards him, and in he end apologized for acting unfairly. Not like the [[DracoInLeatherPants Brotherhood fans]] [[RonTheDeathEater will remember that detail]]. Still, at least [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Lance did honestly try to help eventually.]]eventually]].



** In "Ratings Guy", Peter gets shunned and abused by the town for taking over the Neilson box system and ruining television. Brian suggests just using the boxes to request everything back to normal, only for Mayor West to take revenge by destroying the entire lot of them before he can. Peter does later manage to redeem himself under far more complex manual methods however.

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** In "Ratings Guy", Peter gets shunned and abused by the town for taking over the Neilson box system and ruining television. Brian suggests just using the boxes to request everything back to normal, only for Mayor West to take revenge by destroying the entire lot of them before he can. Peter does later manage to redeem himself under far more complex manual methods methods, however.



* Peridot in ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'', following her truce with the Crystal Gems in the latter half of season two. Her frequent [[FantasticRacism unintentional insults]], [[SmallNameBigEgo superiority complex]], and [[PoorCommunicationKills inability to properly explain her intentions]] led even ''[[AllLovingHero Steven]]'' to have doubts about her having changed for the better. [[spoiler: Fortunately, she makes a full HeelFaceTurn after the events of "Message Received", and the Crystal Gems take her in as one of their own after Peridot turns her back on Yellow Diamond and Homeworld.]]
* Dagur the Deranged in ''WesternAnimation/DragonsRidersOfBerk'' spent most of the series obsessively chasing after Hiccup and Toothless, eventually joining up with Viggo Grimborn and his Dragon Hunters. In the fifth season, however, he realizes that Viggo considers him -- like all of his men -- completely expendable, and he quickly deserts. After a chance meeting on a deserted island, Hiccup slowly comes to accept that Dagur's HeelFaceTurn is genuine, but when Dagur shows up on Dragon's Edge a few episodes later, he is understandibly met with distrust from everyone else, who believe that he might just be TheMole for Viggo, and especially [[spoiler:his sister Heather]], who is still furious at him for killing [[spoiler:both her adoptive family and their father]]. [[spoiler:Toward the end of the episode, he proves that he really did have a change of heart by flying straight into a trap that Hiccup and his friends didn't believe him about, [[RedemptionEqualsDeath seemingly sacrificing himself in the process.]]]]

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* Peridot in ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'', following her truce with the Crystal Gems in the latter half of season two. Her frequent [[FantasticRacism unintentional insults]], [[SmallNameBigEgo superiority complex]], and [[PoorCommunicationKills inability to properly explain her intentions]] led even ''[[AllLovingHero Steven]]'' to have doubts about her having changed for the better. [[spoiler: Fortunately, [[spoiler:Fortunately, she makes a full HeelFaceTurn after the events of "Message Received", and the Crystal Gems take her in as one of their own after Peridot turns her back on Yellow Diamond and Homeworld.]]
* Dagur the Deranged in ''WesternAnimation/DragonsRidersOfBerk'' spent most of the series obsessively chasing after Hiccup and Toothless, eventually joining up with Viggo Grimborn and his Dragon Hunters. In the fifth season, however, he realizes that Viggo considers him -- like all of his men -- completely expendable, and he quickly deserts. After a chance meeting on a deserted island, Hiccup slowly comes to accept that Dagur's HeelFaceTurn is genuine, but when Dagur shows up on Dragon's Edge a few episodes later, he is understandibly met with distrust from everyone else, who believe that he might just be TheMole for Viggo, and especially [[spoiler:his sister Heather]], who is still furious at him for killing [[spoiler:both her adoptive family and their father]]. [[spoiler:Toward the end of the episode, he proves that he really did have a change of heart by flying straight into a trap that Hiccup and his friends didn't believe him about, [[RedemptionEqualsDeath seemingly sacrificing himself in the process.]]]]process]].]]



* Superstar QB Michael Vick, who was the most despised athlete in the country after he was jailed for two years for illegal dogfighting, in which Vick aided in both running a dogfighting circle and in the deaths of some dogs themselves. After his stint, Vick offered remorse in that he said he grew up in a "Dirty South" culture where it was not seen or understood as wrong and promised to use his experience to educate others in that culture about the inhumanity of dogfighting. Many felt he did not deserve a chance to go back into the NFL. Vick has managed to earn back the good graces of a lot of fans due to his cleaned-up behavior and work with the American Humane Society and his improbable revival of his career, becoming an even ''better'' QB than he was before jail. However, there is still a contingent of fans (esp. in Atlanta, where Vick's departure sunk the franchise for a few years) who feel Vick will never change and/or does not deserve his second-chance opportunity.
* In his ''Il Principe'' Niccolo Machiavelli explicitly advocated caution towards former opponents who switched sides because "someone who betrayed trust of his former allies may as well do the same to you".
* After WWII, a lot of people still hate Germans or call them Nazis much to the chagrin of people who were never involved with the atrocities. This is true even if their parents and grandparents weren't involved either. Basically, the whole country is trying to put the past behind them and Germans are still embarrassed if their flag is put on display for whatever reason as WWII resulted from national pride.
* One could make the case that this trope extends to many a felon who has "served his time" in jail. While they are technically free, they will find themselves ineligible or at the bottom of the resume list for a large number of jobs, since with a large pool of applicants, many companies will first whittle the list down by rejecting all ex-cons before an interview is scheduled. The lack of availability of work prospects drives many back to a life of crime.
* During the nineties, David Brock was, by his own admission, an attack dog for the Republican Party, authoring ''The Real Anita Hill'', which argued that Anita Hill was deluded when she accused Clarence Thomas of sexual harassment. However, in 1997, he suddenly switched parties, becoming a Democrat, releasing a largely-sympathetic biography of Hillary Clinton, and later going on to found the unabashedly liberal Media Matters for America. While he's become very influential in the Democratic party thanks to Media Matters, many rank-and-file progressives have not forgotten about his past behavior, and have not forgiven him for it.
* Critics of publicly-accessible criminal registries tend to cite this trope as a major contributor to high recidivism rates in jurisdictions that use them. Effectively, a criminal registry (and potential legal requirements to inform new acquaintances, romantic partners, or employers of their criminal past) can severely limit employment and socialization prospects for ex-convicts, even those who legitimately want to turn over a new leaf and are trying hard to do so.
** {{Website/Cracked}} wrote an article [[http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2366-shady-people-put-my-mugshot-online-extorted-me-money.html exposing the existence of an entire industry that abuses this trope]], extorting people to have their mugshots removed (sometimes charging ''per picture'') even if they'd been acquitted or even had the charges dismissed - in the case of the interviewee, on the grounds of mental instability.
* It is not unheard of for school bullies to meet their victims in public many years later and apologize for their actions towards them. Sometimes, the victim will refuse to forgive them and still think they're same rotten jerk that they knew back then since the painful memories won't let them forget what happened. Similarly, internet trolls or those that engaged in cyberbullying may have a change of heart and find themselves being completely shunted by their former victims.

to:

* Superstar QB Michael Vick, who was the most despised athlete in the country after he was jailed for two years for illegal dogfighting, in which Vick aided in both running a dogfighting circle and in the deaths of some dogs themselves. After his stint, Vick offered remorse in that he said he grew up in a "Dirty South" culture where it was not seen or understood as wrong and promised to use his experience to educate others in that culture about the inhumanity of dogfighting. Many felt he did not deserve a chance to go back into the NFL. Vick has managed to earn back the good graces of a lot of fans due to his cleaned-up behavior and work with the American Humane Society and his improbable revival of his career, becoming an even ''better'' QB than he was before jail. However, there is still a contingent of fans (esp. (especially in Atlanta, where Vick's departure sunk the franchise for a few years) who feel Vick will never change and/or does not deserve his second-chance opportunity.
* In his ''Il Principe'' Niccolo Machiavelli ''[[Literature/ThePrince Il Principe]]'', Creator/NiccoloMachiavelli explicitly advocated caution towards former opponents who switched sides sides, because "someone who betrayed trust of his former allies may as well do the same to you".
* After WWII, a lot of people still hate Germans or call them Nazis Nazis, much to the chagrin of people who were never involved with the atrocities. This is true even if their parents and grandparents weren't involved involved, either. Basically, the whole country is trying to put the past behind them and Germans are still embarrassed if their flag is put on display for whatever reason reason, as WWII resulted from national pride.
* One could make the case that this trope extends to many a felon who has "served his time" in jail. While they are technically free, they will find themselves ineligible or at the bottom of the resume résumé list for a large number of jobs, since with a large pool of applicants, many companies will first whittle the list down by rejecting all ex-cons before an interview is scheduled. The lack of availability of work prospects drives many back to a life of crime.
* During the nineties, David Brock was, by his own admission, an attack dog for the Republican Party, authoring ''The Real Anita Hill'', which argued that Anita Hill was deluded when she accused Clarence Thomas of sexual harassment. However, in 1997, he suddenly switched parties, becoming a Democrat, releasing a largely-sympathetic largely sympathetic biography of [[UsefulNotes/HillaryRodhamClinton Hillary Clinton, Clinton]], and later going on to found the unabashedly liberal Media Matters for America. While he's become very influential in the Democratic party Party thanks to Media Matters, many rank-and-file progressives have not forgotten about his past behavior, and have not forgiven him for it.
it.
* Critics of publicly-accessible publicly accessible criminal registries tend to cite this trope as a major contributor to high recidivism rates in jurisdictions that use them. Effectively, a criminal registry (and potential legal requirements to inform new acquaintances, romantic partners, or employers of their criminal past) can severely limit employment and socialization prospects for ex-convicts, even those who legitimately want to turn over a new leaf and are trying hard to do so.
** {{Website/Cracked}} wrote an article [[http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2366-shady-people-put-my-mugshot-online-extorted-me-money.html exposing the existence of an entire industry that abuses this trope]], extorting people to have their mugshots removed (sometimes charging ''per picture'') even if they'd been acquitted or even had the charges dismissed - -- in the case of the interviewee, on the grounds of mental instability.
* It is not unheard of for school bullies to meet their victims in public many years later and apologize for their actions towards them. Sometimes, Sometimes the victim will refuse to forgive them and still think they're same rotten jerk that they knew back then then, since the painful memories won't let them forget what happened. Similarly, internet trolls or those that engaged in cyberbullying may have a change of heart and find themselves being completely shunted by their former victims.
6th Jun '18 10:11:21 AM Technophile
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Unlike TheAtoner, this character is not necessarily [[AntiVillain overwhelmingly evil]]; and its easier if he hasn't [[MoralEventHorizon gone completely overboard]]. His sins could be more along the lines of "[[Literature/LesMiserables stole some bread]]" or "robbed a bank", than "[[OmnicidalManiac destroyed ten inhabited planets]] and built pyramids of [[NothingButSkulls skulls]] while [[EvilLaugh laughing wildly]]." Whatever the case, he is generally not of the opinion that he needs to spend the rest of his life and possibly his afterlife as well trying to make up for his misdeeds, and is in fact [[KarmicProtection due some good karma]]. All he wants is a chance at a [[IJustWantToBeNormal normal honest life]]. It's getting people to give him that chance that presents a problem.

to:

Unlike TheAtoner, this character is not necessarily [[AntiVillain overwhelmingly evil]]; and its it is easier if he hasn't [[MoralEventHorizon gone completely overboard]]. His sins could be more along the lines of "[[Literature/LesMiserables stole some bread]]" or "robbed a bank", than "[[OmnicidalManiac destroyed ten inhabited planets]] and built pyramids of [[NothingButSkulls skulls]] while [[EvilLaugh laughing wildly]]." Whatever the case, he is generally not of the opinion that he needs to spend the rest of his life and possibly his afterlife as well trying to make up for his misdeeds, and is in fact [[KarmicProtection due some good karma]]. All he wants is a chance at a [[IJustWantToBeNormal normal honest life]]. It's getting people to give him that chance that presents a problem.
6th Jun '18 10:10:19 AM Technophile
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[[HeelFaceTurn Turning over a new leaf is hard]]. Especially when [[CassandraTruth no one believes that you're sincere about it]], and/or won't forgive willingly.

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[[HeelFaceTurn Turning over a new leaf leaf]] is hard]].hard. Especially when [[CassandraTruth no one believes that you're sincere about it]], and/or won't forgive willingly.
4th Jun '18 3:05:31 PM ZeroZmm
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Added DiffLines:

** This turns into a case of ForgivenButNotForgotten, because the topic remains a touchy subject when it's referenced in further sequels.
22nd May '18 11:09:58 PM Kid
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* In Jeramey Kraatz's ''/Literature/TheCloakSociety'' novel ''Villains Rising'', downplayed -- but Amp still grumbles that they can't trust the former Cloak Society members.

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* In Jeramey Kraatz's ''/Literature/TheCloakSociety'' ''Literature/TheCloakSociety'' novel ''Villains Rising'', downplayed -- but Amp still grumbles that they can't trust the former Cloak Society members.
1st May '18 5:59:42 AM ClatoLawa
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Added DiffLines:

* The ''WesternAnimation/MiraculousLadybug'' fic ''[[https://archiveofourown.org/works/14323524/chapters/33051645 Redemption]]'' is an AU story in which Adrien was caught transforming by his father immediately after getting his Miraculous and subsequently convinced to join his fight against Ladybug. The story opens after both have been captured and tried, but Adrien is given a lesser sentence than his father, with no jail time, due to showing remorse and cooperating with the police. One of the conditions of his release is that he attend public school for the first time - namely, Collége François Dupont, alongside a class full of former akuma victims who aren't ready to believe that he's changed. The exception is (of course) Marinette, who takes it upon herself to convince people, including Adrien himself, that he deserves a second chance.
16th Feb '18 6:07:03 AM Shadowgazer
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Unlike TheAtoner, this character is not necessarily [[AntiVillain overwhelmingly evil]]; and its easier if he hasn't [[MoralEventHorizon gone completely overboard]]. His sins could be more along the lines of "[[Literature/LesMiserables stole some bread]]" or "robbed a bank", not "[[OmnicidalManiac destroyed ten inhabited planets]] and built pyramids of [[NothingButSkulls skulls]] while [[EvilLaugh laughing wildly]]." Whatever the case, he is generally not of the opinion that he needs to spend the rest of his life and possibly his afterlife as well trying to make up for his misdeeds, and is in fact [[KarmicProtection due some good karma]]. All he wants is a chance at a [[IJustWantToBeNormal normal honest life]]. It's getting people to give him that chance that presents a problem.

to:

Unlike TheAtoner, this character is not necessarily [[AntiVillain overwhelmingly evil]]; and its easier if he hasn't [[MoralEventHorizon gone completely overboard]]. His sins could be more along the lines of "[[Literature/LesMiserables stole some bread]]" or "robbed a bank", not than "[[OmnicidalManiac destroyed ten inhabited planets]] and built pyramids of [[NothingButSkulls skulls]] while [[EvilLaugh laughing wildly]]." Whatever the case, he is generally not of the opinion that he needs to spend the rest of his life and possibly his afterlife as well trying to make up for his misdeeds, and is in fact [[KarmicProtection due some good karma]]. All he wants is a chance at a [[IJustWantToBeNormal normal honest life]]. It's getting people to give him that chance that presents a problem.
16th Feb '18 6:06:12 AM Shadowgazer
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[[HeelFaceTurn Turning over a new leaf is hard]]. Especially when [[CassandraTruth no one believes that you're sincere about it]], and won't forgive willingly.

to:

[[HeelFaceTurn Turning over a new leaf is hard]]. Especially when [[CassandraTruth no one believes that you're sincere about it]], and and/or won't forgive willingly.



Unlike TheAtoner, this character was usually [[AntiVillain not overwhelmingly evil]]; while he may have done bad things, he hasn't [[MoralEventHorizon gone completely overboard]]. His sins are more along the lines of "[[Literature/LesMiserables stole some bread]]" or "robbed a bank", not "[[OmnicidalManiac destroyed ten inhabited planets]] and built pyramids of [[NothingButSkulls skulls]] while [[EvilLaugh laughing wildly]]." Thus, he is generally not of the opinion that he needs to spend the rest of his life and possibly his afterlife as well trying to make up for his misdeeds, and is in fact [[KarmicProtection due some good karma]]. All he wants is a chance at a [[IJustWantToBeNormal normal honest life]]. It's getting people to give him that chance that presents a problem.

to:

Unlike TheAtoner, this character was usually is not necessarily [[AntiVillain not overwhelmingly evil]]; while he may have done bad things, and its easier if he hasn't [[MoralEventHorizon gone completely overboard]]. His sins are could be more along the lines of "[[Literature/LesMiserables stole some bread]]" or "robbed a bank", not "[[OmnicidalManiac destroyed ten inhabited planets]] and built pyramids of [[NothingButSkulls skulls]] while [[EvilLaugh laughing wildly]]." Thus, Whatever the case, he is generally not of the opinion that he needs to spend the rest of his life and possibly his afterlife as well trying to make up for his misdeeds, and is in fact [[KarmicProtection due some good karma]]. All he wants is a chance at a [[IJustWantToBeNormal normal honest life]]. It's getting people to give him that chance that presents a problem.



Things get even more frustrating for the character whose bad reputation is [[ClearMyName completely unearned]], because he was wrongly accused, possibly even convicted, perhaps even made to do the time -- but he never actually did the crime. Yet he still faces the exact same rejection as the genuine wrongdoer.

In the best case, the reformed (or [[EasilyCondemned genuinely innocent]]) character finds the strength of will to withstand the scorn and derision of the heroes and/or society at large, and is eventually able to prove themselves truly changed (or is able to maintain the good character they never actually lost) despite the enormous pressure. They succeed in making a place for themselves in honest society, however humble that place may be. (They may even realize that their previous attempts were BuyThemOff and, if not spending the rest of their lives atoning, do more to make up for what they did.)

In the worst case, the pressure is too much and the reformed character's resolve falters and fails. [[ChronicVillainy He returns to his old bad ways,]] often ending up in jail again. Or, if he was originally innocent, he may become so bitter that he will decide he has no choice except to [[ThenLetMeBeEvil become what reputation has made him]]. He may even become so despairing that he [[DrivenToSuicide takes his own life]] rather than live with non-stop contempt and derision. To rub salt in it, the heroes might take this as proof that he really had never changed at all, and in the case of bad writing this will be how the story interprets it.

This character is prone to attracting the attention of an InspectorJavert, who is convinced that "men like you can never change." Javert is likely to hound the character non-stop, hoping to catch him in a criminal act, or possibly even goad him into committing one.

On the other hand, there are times where this may be totally reasonable. Yeah, they may have never done anything particularly heinous, but a long history of being a complete fuckup and general thorn in the side of the heroes does not really do much to engender popularity with them. The villain may really want to reform and may have taken honest steps to do so, but the heroes may simply just be so sick of dealing with them and the messes that they cause (''especially'' if they already have multiple failed attempts on their record) that they frankly just don't care. Like ThenLetMeBeEvil, it runs the gamut from a cheap excuse to avoid taking responsibility, to an explanation that has some truth but still doesn't cut it, and all the way to a perfectly valid reason where the heroes are completely in the wrong and really have no one but themselves to blame.

to:

Things get even more frustrating for the character whose bad reputation is [[ClearMyName completely unearned]], because he was wrongly accused, possibly even convicted, perhaps even made to do the time -- but he never actually did the crime. Yet he still faces the exact same rejection as the genuine wrongdoer.

In the best case, the reformed (or [[EasilyCondemned genuinely innocent]]) character finds the strength of will to withstand the scorn and derision of the heroes and/or society at large, and is eventually able to prove themselves truly changed (or is able to maintain the good character they never actually lost) despite the enormous pressure. They succeed in making a place for themselves in honest society, however humble that place may be. (They may even realize that their previous attempts were BuyThemOff and, if not spending the rest of their lives atoning, do more to make up for what they did.)

In the worst case, the pressure is too much and the reformed character's resolve falters and fails. [[ChronicVillainy He returns to his old bad ways,]] often ending up in jail again. Or, if he was originally innocent, he may become so bitter that he will decide he has no choice except to [[ThenLetMeBeEvil become what reputation has made him]]. He may even become so despairing that he [[DrivenToSuicide takes his own life]] rather than live with non-stop contempt and derision. To rub salt in it, the heroes might take this as proof that he really had never changed at all, and in the case of bad writing this will be how the story interprets it.

This character is prone to attracting the attention of an InspectorJavert, who is convinced that "men like you can never change." Javert is likely to hound the character non-stop, hoping to catch him in a criminal act, or possibly in the most extreme cases even goad him into committing one.

On the other hand, there are times where this may be totally reasonable. Yeah, they may have never done anything particularly heinous, but a A long history of being a complete fuckup and general thorn in the side of the heroes does not really do much to engender popularity with them. The villain may really want to reform and may have taken honest steps to do so, but the heroes may simply just be so sick of dealing with them and the messes that they cause (''especially'' if they already have multiple failed attempts on their record) that they frankly just don't care. Like ThenLetMeBeEvil, it runs the gamut from a cheap excuse to avoid taking responsibility, to an explanation that has some truth but still doesn't cut it, and all the way to a perfectly valid reason where the heroes are completely in the wrong and really have no one but themselves to blame.



The greatest danger for a ReformedButRejected character, however, is not InspectorJavert, but bad karma. [[RedemptionEqualsDeath It might be safer to just stay bad,]] [[ThenLetMeBeEvil or just outright go worse.]]

A subtrope to RejectedApology. Contrast TheFarmerAndTheViper, where someone given the opportunity this reformer seeks turns it against his benefactors or RedemptionRejection where a villain is offered a chance to reform only for the villain to refuse. Also contrast with EasilyForgiven where a formerly villainous character is quickly forgiven for any crimes they may have committed as soon as they start helping the good guys. Compare HeelFaceDoorSlam, where the villain never even gets to start their journey to redemption (or attempts to but is rebuffed because their old actions really were too far [[MoralEventHorizon beyond the pale]] for anything resembling a convincing redemption); RedemptionFailure, where they embark on said journey but are turned around by external forces half-way through; and finally, ForgivenessRequiresDeath, where the price to earn the forgiveness of the wronged person is one's own life. See also VillainBallMagnet and TrappedInVillainy. May result from a ThirdActMisunderstanding. If the heroes did forgive him, but still give him this sort of treatment, then it's ForgivenButNotForgotten. A RegretfulTraitor may be a victim of this, since they genuinely regret having betrayed their friends, but the betrayal may have cut too deep for their friends to forgive them.

to:

The greatest danger for a ReformedButRejected character, however, is not InspectorJavert, but bad karma. [[RedemptionEqualsDeath It might be safer to just stay bad,]] [[ThenLetMeBeEvil or just outright go worse.worse if they were bad to begin with.]]

A subtrope to RejectedApology. Contrast TheFarmerAndTheViper, where someone given the opportunity this reformer seeks turns it against his benefactors or RedemptionRejection where a villain is offered a chance to reform only for the villain to refuse. Also contrast with EasilyForgiven where a formerly villainous character is quickly forgiven for any crimes they may have committed as soon as they start helping the good guys. guys, no matter how serious they were. Compare HeelFaceDoorSlam, where the villain never even gets to start their journey to redemption (or attempts to but is rebuffed because their old actions really were too far [[MoralEventHorizon beyond the pale]] for anything resembling a convincing redemption); redemption in the authors eyes at least); RedemptionFailure, where they embark on said journey but are turned around by external forces half-way through; and finally, ForgivenessRequiresDeath, where the price to earn the forgiveness of the wronged person is one's own life. See also VillainBallMagnet and TrappedInVillainy. May result from a ThirdActMisunderstanding. If the heroes did forgive him, but still give him this sort of treatment, then it's ForgivenButNotForgotten. A RegretfulTraitor may be a victim of this, since they genuinely regret having betrayed their friends, but the betrayal may have cut too deep for their friends to forgive them.
16th Feb '18 5:50:04 AM Shadowgazer
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Added DiffLines:

* On the rare occasions that Team Rocket from ''Anime/{{Pokemon}}'' are acting good, the protagonists don't usually buy it, even if they were being sincere. Oddly [[(RuleOfFunny or not)]], the weaker their disguise is when doing actual crime the more likely they are to fool Ash and friends. It seems they only really notice them out-of-uniform if they're doing anything other than evil. Team Rocket jumping to their death so Ash and Lugia live, and no-one even mentioning it: at the end of the movie (they survived), they are complaining about how no-one noticed their good deeds. Slowking then [[BreakingTheFourthWall broke the Fourth Wall]] when he told them that lots of people (the audience) knew what they did.
31st Jan '18 1:58:38 PM Matteso585
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* ''Fanfic/MegaManStarNetwork'' has Pride. Despite helping take down Nebula, nearly everyone in Creamland is still wary of her. Even 20 years into the future.
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