History Main / Realpolitik

10th Jun '17 3:09:01 PM nombretomado
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** UsefulNotes/JosephStalin was also one hell of a pragmatist - firstly, he [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapallo_Treaty organized]] mutual aid with Weimar Germany, as they were both troubled pariah states, despite Germany being a capitalist republic. He also abandoned Lenin's ideas of world revolution, focusing on "Building socialism in one country", and hijacked Trotsky's ideas of hyper-industrialisation. After Hitler's takeover, he still traded with Germany; then he tried to ally with the Entente against Hitler; after seeing their reluctance to stop him, he [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact negotiated]] with Hitler, despite his rabid anti-communism, while re-arming and organizing the army. During WorldWarTwo he united Russians with ideas of succession between UsefulNotes/TsaristRussia and the USSR, glorifying old-time heroes like Alexander Nevsky or Admiral Ushakov, painting old invaders like UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte or Teutonic Knights as ANaziByAnyOtherName. After the war, despite anti-Semitic politics, he lobbied the UN for the creation of Israel.

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** UsefulNotes/JosephStalin was also one hell of a pragmatist - firstly, he [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapallo_Treaty organized]] mutual aid with Weimar Germany, as they were both troubled pariah states, despite Germany being a capitalist republic. He also abandoned Lenin's ideas of world revolution, focusing on "Building socialism in one country", and hijacked Trotsky's ideas of hyper-industrialisation. After Hitler's takeover, he still traded with Germany; then he tried to ally with the Entente against Hitler; after seeing their reluctance to stop him, he [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact negotiated]] with Hitler, despite his rabid anti-communism, while re-arming and organizing the army. During WorldWarTwo UsefulNotes/WorldWarII he united Russians with ideas of succession between UsefulNotes/TsaristRussia and the USSR, glorifying old-time heroes like Alexander Nevsky or Admiral Ushakov, painting old invaders like UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte or Teutonic Knights as ANaziByAnyOtherName. After the war, despite anti-Semitic politics, he lobbied the UN for the creation of Israel.
10th Jun '17 3:08:53 PM nombretomado
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* Alexander III of Russia once said: "Russia has two allies: the Army and the Navy". His reign of peace earned him the name of Peacemaker. However, he did initiate the Franco-Russian alliance of 1894 (which would play a crucial part in the run-up to WorldWarOne).

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* Alexander III of Russia once said: "Russia has two allies: the Army and the Navy". His reign of peace earned him the name of Peacemaker. However, he did initiate the Franco-Russian alliance of 1894 (which would play a crucial part in the run-up to WorldWarOne).UsefulNotes/WorldWarI).
8th Jun '17 5:16:25 PM AgentS7
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** Also a credit to the defeat of UsefulNotes/HillaryClinton in 2016. UsefulNotes/BernieSanders' supporters were disillusioned with Clinton's primary victory, especially in light of tactics used by the DNC that favored Clinton over Bernie. In the lead up and initial follow up, many feared that defeat would happen if enough of the Sanders' supporters were ticked off enough to vote for third-party candidates. As it turns out, they [[TookAThirdOption took a fourth option and didn't vote at all]]. It should be noted that this isn't the first time Hillary's primary support caused trouble. In 2008, she stayed in the primary for far longer than most Obama supporters wanted and turned to some tactics that turned off many independent voters. While the party still managed to win in the general election, a Democratic victory wasn't nearly as assured as it had been in the beginning of the primary season.

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** Also a credit This also contributed to the defeat of UsefulNotes/HillaryClinton in 2016. UsefulNotes/BernieSanders' supporters were disillusioned with Clinton's primary victory, especially in light of tactics used by the DNC that favored Clinton over Bernie. In the lead up and initial follow up, many feared that defeat would happen if enough of the Sanders' supporters were ticked off enough to vote for third-party candidates. As it turns out, they [[TookAThirdOption took a fourth option and didn't vote at all]]. It should be noted that this isn't the first time Hillary's primary support caused trouble. In 2008, she stayed in the primary for far longer than most Obama supporters wanted and turned to some tactics that turned off many independent voters. While the party still managed to win in the general election, a Democratic victory wasn't nearly as assured as it had been in the beginning of the primary season.
31st May '17 9:32:10 PM PaulA
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* In another Creator/RobertAHeinlein novel, ''Have Space Suit - Will Travel'', the Three Galaxies organization of many alien races puts HumanityOnTrial. Our hero Kip says this is unjust. The alien moderator responds that the Three Galaxies don't bother trying to understand "justice" but are a defence organization that destroys any race that will be a threat.

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* In another a Creator/RobertAHeinlein novel, ''Have Space Suit - Will Travel'', ''Literature/HaveSpaceSuitWillTravel'', the Three Galaxies organization of many alien races puts HumanityOnTrial. Our hero Kip says this is unjust. The alien moderator responds that the Three Galaxies don't bother trying to understand "justice" but are a defence organization that destroys any race that will be a threat.
16th May '17 9:41:44 AM nombretomado
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** UsefulNotes/JosephStalin was also one hell of a pragmatist - firstly, he [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapallo_Treaty organized]] mutual aid with Weimar Germany, as they were both troubled pariah states, despite Germany being a capitalist republic. He also abandoned Lenin's ideas of world revolution, focusing on "Building socialism in one country", and hijacked Trotsky's ideas of hyper-industrialisation. After Hitler's takeover, he still traded with Germany; then he tried to ally with the Entente against Hitler; after seeing their reluctance to stop him, he [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact negotiated]] with Hitler, despite his rabid anti-communism, while re-arming and organizing the army. During WorldWarTwo he united Russians with ideas of succession between TsaristRussia and the USSR, glorifying old-time heroes like Alexander Nevsky or Admiral Ushakov, painting old invaders like UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte or Teutonic Knights as ANaziByAnyOtherName. After the war, despite anti-Semitic politics, he lobbied the UN for the creation of Israel.

to:

** UsefulNotes/JosephStalin was also one hell of a pragmatist - firstly, he [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapallo_Treaty organized]] mutual aid with Weimar Germany, as they were both troubled pariah states, despite Germany being a capitalist republic. He also abandoned Lenin's ideas of world revolution, focusing on "Building socialism in one country", and hijacked Trotsky's ideas of hyper-industrialisation. After Hitler's takeover, he still traded with Germany; then he tried to ally with the Entente against Hitler; after seeing their reluctance to stop him, he [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact negotiated]] with Hitler, despite his rabid anti-communism, while re-arming and organizing the army. During WorldWarTwo he united Russians with ideas of succession between TsaristRussia UsefulNotes/TsaristRussia and the USSR, glorifying old-time heroes like Alexander Nevsky or Admiral Ushakov, painting old invaders like UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte or Teutonic Knights as ANaziByAnyOtherName. After the war, despite anti-Semitic politics, he lobbied the UN for the creation of Israel.
28th Apr '17 9:21:23 PM MAI742
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If you ask a diplomat exactly why his country is behaving in a ruthless or manipulative manner, he will usually, if you can blast your way through all the skillful deflections and rhetoric, respond with this argument: "We're protecting our interests. It is what every other country is doing, and what every country ''should'' be doing. MyCountryRightOrWrong."

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If you ask a diplomat [[BelievingTheirOwnLies who is not an ideologue]] exactly why his their country is behaving in a ruthless or manipulative manner, he manner they will usually, if you can blast your way through all the skillful deflections and rhetoric, respond with this argument: "We're protecting our interests. It is what every other country is doing, and what every country ''should'' we'd be doing.foolish not to do so too. MyCountryRightOrWrong."
28th Apr '17 9:10:53 PM MAI742
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->''"If we see that [[UsefulNotes/NaziGermany Germany]] is winning we ought to help [[UsefulNotes/SovietRussiaUkraineAndSoOn Russia]], and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, [[Main/Realpolitik and that way let them kill as many as possible]]."''

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->''"If we see that [[UsefulNotes/NaziGermany Germany]] is winning we ought to help [[UsefulNotes/SovietRussiaUkraineAndSoOn Russia]], and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, [[Main/Realpolitik [[{{Realpolitik}} and that way let them kill as many as possible]]."''
28th Apr '17 9:10:22 PM MAI742
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->''"If we see that [[UsefulNotes/NaziGermany Germany]] is winning we ought to help [[UsefulNotes/SovietRussiaUkraineAndSoOn Russia]], and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, [[Realpolitik and that way let them kill as many as possible]]."''

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->''"If we see that [[UsefulNotes/NaziGermany Germany]] is winning we ought to help [[UsefulNotes/SovietRussiaUkraineAndSoOn Russia]], and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, [[Realpolitik [[Main/Realpolitik and that way let them kill as many as possible]]."''
28th Apr '17 9:10:03 PM MAI742
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->''Politics is like boxing you try to knock out your opponents.''
-->-- '''UsefulNotes/IdiAmin'''

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->''Politics ->''"If we see that [[UsefulNotes/NaziGermany Germany]] is like boxing you try winning we ought to knock out your opponents.''
help [[UsefulNotes/SovietRussiaUkraineAndSoOn Russia]], and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, [[Realpolitik and that way let them kill as many as possible]]."''
-->-- '''UsefulNotes/IdiAmin'''
'''Senator UsefulNotes/HarryTruman''', June 1941 [[note]] printed in McCullough, David, ''Truman'' (New York, 1992) p. 262 [[/note]]
27th Mar '17 2:25:26 AM TheWildWestPyro
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** Let's not forget how the US protected the majority of war criminals from the infamous Unit 731 in the Japanese Imperial Army and giving them political and legal immunity from prosecution in exchange for their cooperation. The people in the Unit 731 are infamous for conducting horrific experimentation on unwilling ''live'' subjects (mostly Chinese and Koreans). By securing cooperation from the war criminals, the US demanded that they shared the data obtained through those experiments with them.

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** Let's not forget how the US protected the majority of war criminals from the infamous Unit 731 in the Imperial Japanese Imperial Army and giving them political and legal immunity from prosecution in exchange for their cooperation. The people in cooperation for American bioweapons research. Almost all the core members of Unit 731 are infamous for conducting truly horrific experimentation on unwilling ''live'' subjects (mostly Chinese Chinese, White Russians and Koreans).Koreans), such as vivisecting people while they were unconscious, throwing prisoners in pressure chambers to watch them die and herding men, women and children into huge chambers to be killed by the full effects of bubonic plague or frostbite. By securing cooperation from the war criminals, the US demanded that they shared the data obtained through those experiments with them.
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