History Main / QuantityVsQuality

28th Feb '17 9:36:18 AM zarpaulus
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* In ''Literature/TheExpanse'' Earth has a larger navy but Mars is more technologically advanced. On the other hand Protogen's private navy is even more advanced than Mars', fitting railguns onto frigate-sized ships, but they can't field anything bigger than a few frigates which rely on ambushes and even then it takes six Protogen ships to take on a single Martian battleship.
9th Feb '17 6:06:24 PM Specialist290
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* SolderVersusWarrior: Militarized soldiers fighting in unison can defeat superior numbers of

to:

* SolderVersusWarrior: SoldierVersusWarrior: Militarized soldiers fighting in unison can defeat superior numbers of warriors fighting purely for personal glory.
5th Feb '17 10:58:55 AM StarSword
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* SolderVersusWarrior: Militarized soldiers fighting in unison can defeat superior numbers of



* This trope was {{discussed|trope}} by Uesugi in episode 13 of ''Literature/TanteiTeamKZJikenNote''. As the cast heads home, Wakatake asks Aya how he can get as many [[ChocolateOfRomance Chocolates of Romance]] as possible, and he made it clear he doesn't care whether he likes the girl in question, nor whether the chocolates were just given out of courtesy, as long as he gets tons of it. Uesugi then {{headpalm}}s, saying Wakatake probably can't help it, since "guys have a 'quantity over quality' vector"--while he himself doesn't. This is somehow {{justified|trope}}; the cast are 12 years old and may not understand the idea of romantic committment.

to:

* This trope was {{discussed|trope}} by Uesugi in episode 13 of ''Literature/TanteiTeamKZJikenNote''. As the cast heads home, Wakatake asks Aya how he can get as many [[ChocolateOfRomance Chocolates of Romance]] as possible, and he made it clear he doesn't care whether he likes the girl in question, nor whether the chocolates were just given out of courtesy, as long as he gets tons of it. Uesugi then {{headpalm}}s, saying Wakatake probably can't help it, since "guys have a 'quantity over quality' vector"--while he himself doesn't. This is somehow {{justified|trope}}; the cast are 12 years old and may not understand the idea of romantic committment.commitment.


Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Film -- Live-Action]]
* ''Franchise/StarWars'' tends to give the evil factions Quantity and the good factions Quality, as typified by comparing Imperial and Rebel SpaceFighters in the original trilogy. [=TIEs=] come at you in endless hordes that seek to swamp the enemy with sheer weight of fire, but they're poorly armed and quite fragile, [[MookMobile "expendable vehicles for expendable pilots"]] as Wedge Antilles puts it in a ''Franchise/StarWarsLegends'' novel. Rebel fighters are fewer in number but have missiles, DeflectorShields (though ArmorIsUseless in the films) and their own hyperdrives, which means Rebel ''pilots'' tend to be much better since their relatively higher survival rate means they can improve over time. It's reversed with capital ships, though: the Rebels are stuck with whatever they've been able to find, buy, or steal, whereas the Empire can build Star Destroyers from scratch. In a StandardStarshipScuffle the Imperial capital ship usually wins, but in an OldSchoolDogfight the odds are more even.
[[/folder]]
14th Jan '17 3:19:17 PM EternalNothingness
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* This is most especially true when you look at the RealRobotGenre and the SuperRobotGenre. Super Robots such as Mazinger Z and Getter Robo are usually one-of-a-kind and would defy real-world physics in-exchange for higher strength and firepower, which would gear them more toward quality. Real robots such as Gundam and Macross, on the other hand, mostly abide to real-world physics and are mass-produced, which would, in-turn, have them rely on their quantity.
1st Jan '17 4:49:41 AM ester
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* r/K-selection theory states that species can either chose quality or quantity as their reproductove strategy. r-selected species go for quantity. They have lots of offspring, but don't invest much in each individual, so that many of them never reach adulthood. K-selected species choose quality. They have few offsping, but invest heavily in the few that they have, so that most of them survive. Humans are extremely K-selected (and more so the richer they are); most species of fish are strongly r-selected, and rodents are somewhere in between.
23rd Aug '16 4:11:15 AM PlasmaTalon
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''Videogame/Fallout'' the Brotherhood of Steel's smaller but better trained and equipped army is beaten by the New California Republic's less advanced but far more numerous forces. With the Brotherhood being unable to replace their loses nearly as quickly.
23rd Aug '16 4:10:15 AM PlasmaTalon
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* In ''Videogame/Fallout'' the Brotherhood of Steel's smaller but better trained and equipped army is beaten by the New California Republic's less advanced but far more numerous forces. With the Brotherhood being unable to replace their loses nearly as quickly.
26th May '16 11:00:22 AM DarthWalrus
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''VideoGame/{{Warcraft}} III's'' necromancers' basic skill raises two weak skeletons from a corpse, quickly snowballing into a tide of skeletons. Dark Rangers can AnimateDead, too, but create a single, stronger skeleton instead. Death Knights however truly take the cake with their Short-lived yet invincible minions that are just as strong as they were when they were alive.

to:

* ''VideoGame/{{Warcraft}} III's'' necromancers' basic skill raises two weak skeletons from a corpse, quickly snowballing into a tide of skeletons. Dark Rangers can AnimateDead, too, but create a single, stronger skeleton instead.instead, and Crypt Lords summon a permanent, ''Beetle'' that, corpse for corpse, is more powerful than the Dark Ranger's skeletons. Death Knights however truly take the cake with their Short-lived yet invincible minions that are just as strong as they were when they were alive.
20th Apr '16 4:37:36 PM StarSword
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The breakdown is much the same in Creator/DavidDrake's ''Literature/{{RCN}}'' series. ''When the Tide Rises'' discusses this in detail: The Alliance Fleet tends to build more and often bigger and theoretically more powerful ships than the Republic of Cinnabar Navy, but Cinnabar crews tend to be more skilled and more instinctively loyal. Alliance dictator Guarantor Porra (loosely based on UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte) relies mainly on {{conscription}}, frequently from conquered worlds, to fill out the ranks, so while the Alliance doesn't have the manpower problems the RCN often does from having to compete with the merchant marine, many Alliance spacers aren't as good or motivated as their RCN counterparts and will sometimes even [[HeelFaceTurn switch sides]] given the opportunity. Alliance admirals also tend to be more cautious since [[YouHaveFailedMe the penalty for failing Porra is sometimes execution]]. The end result is that numerically superior Alliance squadrons will sometimes lose to lesser Cinnabar squadrons on the sheer skill and balls of the Cinnabars. In protagonist Daniel Leary's case, he's helped along by the fact that thanks to {{deuteragonist}} Adele Mundy's hacking and data-crunching skills, he nearly always has better intelligence than any opponent.
-->'''Daniel:''' The second advantage is even less tangible, Adele, but it's more important. It's the fact we are the RCN. We know it and they know it. Every Alliance spacer from [Admiral] Guphill to the Landsmen in Training knows that know matter how many ships they have, they've always got to expect us to go for their throats. Deep in their hearts, they're afraid and they know we aren't. We're the RCN.



** In battles in ''VideoGame/CrusaderKings'', higher-quality troops (i.e. troops with greater technology points backing them, as well as professional army retinues instead of levies; the Martial skill of the realm and the commanders leading the troops also factors in) can often win battles decisively despite being outnumbered. This is especially true against Viking raiders (who frequently have no commander at all, or only one and favor light infantry) and peasant, liberation, and heretic revolt armies (large numbers of weak troops). Sheer numbers can still make for an insurmountable opponent, however.

to:

** In battles in ''VideoGame/CrusaderKings'', higher-quality troops (i.e. troops with greater technology points backing them, as well as professional army retinues instead of levies; the Martial skill of the realm and the commanders leading the troops also factors in) can often win battles decisively despite being outnumbered. This is especially true against Viking raiders (who frequently have no commander at all, or only one one, and favor light infantry) and peasant, liberation, and heretic revolt armies (large numbers of weak troops). Sheer numbers can still make for an insurmountable opponent, however.


Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Real Life]]
* UsefulNotes/WorldWarII's European theatre was almost a case study in this. UsefulNotes/NaziGermany's war machines were frequently [[StupidJetpackHitler quite advanced for their time]], from the well-known things like the Me-262 Schwalbe jet fighter and Tiger tanks to lesser-known things like the Bf-109 prop fighter featuring an engine with fuel injection (more reliable during certain maneuvers than the carburetor engines in Allied planes). Unfortunately UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler had an obsession with creating more and more of these ''Wunderwaffen'' ("wonder weapons"), and in practice many proved [[AwesomeButImpractical unreliable, ineffective, and/or resource-intensive]]. Their Allied counterparts typically went for ''good enough'', with designs meant to be practical and readily produced in large numbers and often using existing, proven technologies in new ways. One such case was the British creation of the Sherman Firefly as a hard counter to the Tiger by simply mounting an existing anti-tank cannon (originally a carriage artillery piece) to an American Sherman chassis.
[[/folder]]
12th Mar '16 6:30:01 AM StarSword
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Also the war between the Empire of Manticore and the Solarian League. The Solarians have more superdreadnoughts than Manticore has cruisers, but their technology is several centuries out of date because no one has dared fight them until now while the Empire has been dealing with pirates and [[PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny Haven]] for a long time so they've got a healthy R&D program. Manticore's tacticians are more concerned about running out of ammo than ships (in fact, Solarian commanders are willing to sacrifice entire task forces to make the Manties use up their irreplaceable high-tech missiles). Both sides have remained fairly even.
** Haven itself was also a version of this in the early books. They were much larger and had a bigger navy than Manticore but Manticore's technical edge kept them afloat. Things evened out in later books as Haven's tech base began to catch up and Manticore discovered less manpower-intensive ship designs letting them get more ships into combat. Throughout all that Haven maintained a mantra that quantity was a quality all its own.

to:

** Also the war between the Empire of Manticore and the Solarian League. The Solarians have more superdreadnoughts than Manticore has cruisers, but their technology is several centuries out of date because no one has dared fight them until now now, while the Empire has been dealing with pirates and [[PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny Haven]] for a long time so they've got a healthy R&D program. Manticore's tacticians are more concerned about running out of ammo than ships (in fact, Solarian commanders are willing to sacrifice entire task forces to make the Manties use up their irreplaceable high-tech missiles). Both sides have remained fairly even.
** Haven itself was also a version of this in the early books. They were much larger and had a bigger navy than Manticore but Manticore's technical edge kept them afloat. Things evened out in later books as Haven's tech base began to catch up and Manticore discovered less manpower-intensive ship designs letting them get more ships into combat. Throughout all that Haven maintained a mantra that quantity was a quality all its own.own: in early books Haven countered Mantie superiority in electronic warfare by simply adding more equipment to its ships (meaning the dozen or so Haven superdreadnoughts Manticore captured and gave to Grayson in ''Flag in Exile'' were ''beasts'' at it after the Manties upgraded the circuitry), and when Manticore built dreadnought-sized LAC carriers, Haven built ''superdread''-sized.



* In the short story "Superiority" by Arthur C Clarke, this trope is fully analyzed. Two societies fight one another, [[SuperPrototype one of which uses the newest, most up to date weaponry]]... and [[ObviousBeta fails to conduct adequate testing before deployment]]. As a result, the new inventions [[AwesomeButImpractical have prohibitive logistical requirements]] or [[HoistByHisOwnPetard cause more damage to their own side than to the enemy]]. The other side sticks with tried-and-true technology that reliably works exactly the way that it should, and is much easier and faster to produce than the more advanced version... and they just keep plugging away on the production lines until they have numerical superiority. [[ZergRush Guess which side wins.]]

to:

* In the short story "Superiority" by Arthur C Clarke, Creator/ArthurCClarke, this trope is fully analyzed. Two societies fight one another, [[SuperPrototype one of which uses the newest, most up to date weaponry]]... and [[ObviousBeta fails to conduct adequate testing before deployment]]. As a result, the new inventions [[AwesomeButImpractical have prohibitive logistical requirements]] or [[HoistByHisOwnPetard cause more damage to their own side than to the enemy]]. The other side sticks with tried-and-true technology that reliably works exactly the way that it should, and is much easier and faster to produce than the more advanced version... and they just keep plugging away on the production lines until they have numerical superiority. [[ZergRush Guess which side wins.]]



* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' and ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'': this is one of the calculations pretty much every player must make when selecting an army to field on the tabletop. Each army has its own Warhammer Armies book (called a Codex in 40k) with an army list detailing the abilities of the various troop types, war machines, characters and monsters that make it up and assigning each a points value based on how powerful and effective it is in game terms. Most games are played between two armies of a fixed equal points value (say 2000 points, for instance), so if you want to pack your army with large numbers of troops you will have to take lower quality ones and skimp on the powerful stuff, and if you want lots of elite troops, heroes, wizards and powerful monsters then your army will be smaller overall. Different races or factions in the games tend to occupy different portions of the quality-quantity spectrum, with some specialising in higher quality troops, others specialising in cheap but numerous troops, some in the middle of the spectrum and a very few offering the choice of playing to either end.

to:

* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' and ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'': this 40000}}'':
** This
is one of the calculations pretty much every player must make when selecting an army to field on the tabletop. Each army has its own Warhammer Armies book (called a Codex in 40k) with an army list detailing the abilities of the various troop types, war machines, characters and monsters that make it up and assigning each a points value based on how powerful and effective it is in game terms. Most games are played between two armies of a fixed equal points value (say 2000 points, for instance), so if you want to pack your army with large numbers of troops you will have to take lower quality ones and skimp on the powerful stuff, and if you want lots of elite troops, heroes, wizards and powerful monsters then your army will be smaller overall. Different races or factions in the games tend to occupy different portions of the quality-quantity spectrum, with some specialising in higher quality troops, others specialising in cheap but numerous troops, some in the middle of the spectrum and a very few offering the choice of playing to either end.



** ''[=40k=]'' uses this relationship between the [[Characters/Warhammer40000ImperialGuard Imperial Guard]] and the [[Characters/Warhammer40000Astartes Adeptus Astartes]]. The Guard is a billions-strong army of normal humans armed with laser rifles and body armor that are frequently compared in effectiveness with flashlights and t-shirts, and often act as the RedshirtArmy in fluff and novels. The Space Marines, on the other hand, are made up of {{Super Soldier}}s genetically altered to be roughly seven feet tall with HealingFactor and various ancillary abilities depending on chapter, and dressed in PoweredArmor and wielding fully automatic rocket-propelled grenade launchers. But since their chapters are limited in size to about a thousand men apiece, they don't have the numbers to fight full-scale wars by themselves. Thus the two armies frequently work in tandem: the Guard provides the numbers and acts as the hammer, while the Space Marines perform surgical attacks and act as the sword-point.\\

to:

** ''[=40k=]'' uses this relationship between the [[Characters/Warhammer40000ImperialGuard Imperial Guard]] and the [[Characters/Warhammer40000Astartes Adeptus Astartes]]. The Guard is a billions-strong army of normal humans armed with laser rifles and body armor that are frequently compared in effectiveness with flashlights and t-shirts, and often act as the RedshirtArmy in fluff and novels. The Space Marines, on the other hand, are made up of {{Super Soldier}}s genetically altered to be roughly seven feet tall with HealingFactor and various ancillary abilities depending on chapter, and dressed in PoweredArmor and wielding fully automatic rocket-propelled grenade launchers. But since their chapters are limited in size to about a thousand men apiece, they don't have the numbers to fight full-scale wars by themselves. Thus the two armies frequently work in tandem: tandem in fluff and literature: the Guard provides the numbers and acts as the hammer, while the Space Marines perform surgical attacks and act as the sword-point.\\



Most human worlds in ''40K'' also have planetary defense forces, who are the RedshirtArmy to the RedshirtArmy: collectively outnumbering the Guard, but generally so weak that their only purpose is to hold long enough for the Guard and/or Astartes to get there. In ascending order of competence and descending of numbers, a rough approximation for the three groups is National Guard → regular Army → SEAL Team Six.

to:

Most human worlds in ''40K'' also have planetary defense forces, who are the RedshirtArmy to the RedshirtArmy: collectively outnumbering the Guard, but generally so weak compared to their enemy that their only purpose is to hold long enough for the Guard and/or Astartes to get there. In ascending order of competence and descending of numbers, a rough approximation for the three groups is National Guard → regular Army → SEAL Team Six.
This list shows the last 10 events of 56. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.QuantityVsQuality