History Main / PropheticFallacy

2nd Aug '17 11:43:18 AM StFan
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A variation on the ProphecyTwist and, sometimes, the [[SelfFulfillingProphecy Self Fulfilling Prophecies]], the Prophetic Fallacy is different in that the prophecy itself - typically a prophetic dream or glimpse through a time window - is incomplete or deceptive in some way rather than simply vague.

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A variation on the ProphecyTwist and, sometimes, the [[SelfFulfillingProphecy Self Fulfilling Self-Fulfilling Prophecies]], the Prophetic Fallacy is different in that the prophecy itself - -- typically a prophetic dream or glimpse through a time window - -- is incomplete or deceptive in some way rather than simply vague.



!!Examples

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!!Examples!!Examples:



[[folder: Anime and Manga ]]

* In ''Manga/{{Basara}}'', male and female twins are born, and it is prophesised that one of them will overthrow the evil kings that rule post-apocalyptic Japan. The villages automatically assume that the boy is the saviour... but he gets killed, leading the girl to disguise herself as him and lead the rebellion. The village wise man comments that she noticed without realising it that she was in fact the saviour.

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[[folder: Anime and Manga ]]

[[folder:Anime & Manga]]
* In ''Manga/{{Basara}}'', male and female twins are born, and it is prophesised prophesized that one of them will overthrow the evil kings that rule post-apocalyptic Japan. The villages automatically assume that the boy is the saviour...savior... but he gets killed, leading the girl to disguise herself as him and lead the rebellion. The village wise man comments that she noticed without realising realizing it that she was in fact the saviour.savior.






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* In the 1997 version of ''ComicStrip/PrinceValiant'', the bad guys steal Excalibur, but in their base, the sword embeds itself into the floor. Morgan le Fay orders her MagicMirror to show them a person worthy of pulling the sword out besides King Arthur. It shows what appears to be Sir Gawain, so they try to kidnap him and force him to pull it out. Naturally, the mirror had shown Prince Valiant in Sir Gawain's armor.
* In the ''Franchise/StarWars'' prequels, the Jedi Council is beginning to suspect that they have misunderstood the prophecy that someone would come to bring balance to The Force. The prophecy omitted all details of what bringing balance to The Force would entail. They assumed that it would involve the destruction of the Sith, which was correct. What they failed to account for was that TheChosenOne would first ''destroy the Jedi and become a Sith'', and only years later would he also end the Sith by killing his master at the cost of his own life.

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* In the 1997 version of ''ComicStrip/PrinceValiant'', ''Film/PrinceValiant'', the bad guys steal Excalibur, but in their base, the sword embeds itself into the floor. Morgan le Fay orders her MagicMirror to show them a person worthy of pulling the sword out besides King Arthur. It shows what appears to be Sir Gawain, so they try to kidnap him and force him to pull it out. Naturally, the mirror had shown Prince Valiant in Sir Gawain's armor.
* ''Franchise/StarWars'':
**
In the ''Franchise/StarWars'' prequels, the Jedi Council is beginning to suspect that they have misunderstood the prophecy that someone would come to bring balance to The Force. The prophecy omitted all details of what bringing balance to The Force would entail. They assumed that it would involve the destruction of the Sith, which was correct. What they failed to account for was that TheChosenOne would first ''destroy the Jedi and become a Sith'', and only years later would he also end the Sith by killing his master at the cost of his own life.






* ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings''

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* ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings''''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'':



* A sort-of example: in the ExpandedUniverse series of ''StarWars'' novels called the ''Literature/NewJediOrder'', the enemy are ScaryDogmaticAliens, the Yuuzhan Vong. One note about the Vong is that twins are exceedingly rare-and their religious beliefs indicate that one will always kill the other. They are intrigued not only by Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa Solo, but by Leia's children, Jacen and Jaina. To that end, they attempt to ''make'' it happen, by capturing one and them inducing them to kill the other. This in fact leads to their downfall, as with a little help from a spy Jacen not only is able to fake loyalty to the Yuuzhan Vong, but learns a number of Force uses that become instrumental in the war, but also that he corrupts a critical piece of Vong biotech.

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* A sort-of example: in the ExpandedUniverse series of ''StarWars'' ''Star Wars'' novels called the ''Literature/NewJediOrder'', the enemy are ScaryDogmaticAliens, the Yuuzhan Vong. One note about the Vong is that twins are exceedingly rare-and their religious beliefs indicate that one will always kill the other. They are intrigued not only by Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa Solo, but by Leia's children, Jacen and Jaina. To that end, they attempt to ''make'' it happen, by capturing one and them inducing them to kill the other. This in fact leads to their downfall, as with a little help from a spy Jacen not only is able to fake loyalty to the Yuuzhan Vong, but learns a number of Force uses that become instrumental in the war, but also that he corrupts a critical piece of Vong biotech.






[[folder: Live Action TV ]]

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* The series that was truly the king of this trope was the contemporaneous ''OneStepBeyond'', which seemingly used this twist every other episode.

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* The series that was truly the king of this trope was the contemporaneous ''OneStepBeyond'', ''Series/OneStepBeyond'', which seemingly used this twist every other episode.







* In OedipusRex, Oedipus was prophesied to "Kill his father and marry his mother." Consequently, Oedipus left his family and his city to wander the world. In the process, he did kill his father and marry his mother in unrelated events. The prophecy omitted critical information about the events of the prophecy. (Any vision of the events would have seen beyond the bare statement of the prophecy, which naturally implies immediate connection between the two events.)

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\n* In OedipusRex, ''Theatre/OedipusRex'', Oedipus was prophesied to "Kill his father and marry his mother." Consequently, Oedipus left his family and his city to wander the world. In the process, he did kill his father and marry his mother in unrelated events. The prophecy omitted critical information about the events of the prophecy. (Any vision of the events would have seen beyond the bare statement of the prophecy, which naturally implies immediate connection between the two events.)
)



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16th Jun '17 8:19:37 AM Jake
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* An AppliedPhlebotinum / TechnoBabble-powered example occurred in the first episode of ''Series/BlakesSeven'' after the super-computer [=ORAC=] joined the cast, when they tested out its future-prediction capabilities and got a short video clip of what appeared to be the ''Liberator'' exploding. [[spoiler:Turns out it was another ship of the same design, launched in pursuit after they spent the episode trying to escape the people who built the ''Liberator'' and disputed their salvage claim, and it turned out to have been [=ORAC=] who sabotaged it.]] Apparently they decided that getting [=ORAC=] to predict the future was more trouble than it was worth, as it was never used again.

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* An AppliedPhlebotinum / TechnoBabble-powered example occurred in the first episode of ''Series/BlakesSeven'' after the super-computer [=ORAC=] joined the cast, when they tested out its future-prediction capabilities and got a short video clip of what appeared to be the ''Liberator'' exploding. [[spoiler:Turns out it was another ship of the same design, launched in pursuit after they spent the episode trying to escape the people who built the ''Liberator'' and disputed their salvage claim, and it turned out to have been [=ORAC=] who sabotaged it.]] Apparently they decided that getting [=ORAC=] to predict the future was more trouble than it was worth, worth after that, as it was never used again.again. It's also vaguely implied that [=ORAC=] was intentionally screwing with them, either to make a point or for its own amusement.
5th Jun '17 1:23:20 AM SSJMagus
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* In the ''Franchise/StarWars'' prequels, the Jedi Council is beginning to suspect that they have misunderstood the prophecy that someone would come to bring balance to The Force. The prophecy omitted all details of what bringing balance to The Force would entail.

to:

* In the ''Franchise/StarWars'' prequels, the Jedi Council is beginning to suspect that they have misunderstood the prophecy that someone would come to bring balance to The Force. The prophecy omitted all details of what bringing balance to The Force would entail. They assumed that it would involve the destruction of the Sith, which was correct. What they failed to account for was that TheChosenOne would first ''destroy the Jedi and become a Sith'', and only years later would he also end the Sith by killing his master at the cost of his own life.
5th Jun '17 1:10:37 AM SSJMagus
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** Additionally, Voldemort's ego meant he never stopped to consider that doing ''[[TakeAThirdOption nothing]]'' would have thwarted the prophecy completely.

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** Additionally, Voldemort's ego meant he never stopped to consider that doing ''[[TakeAThirdOption nothing]]'' would have thwarted the prophecy completely. If he attacked neither boy, neither would be "marked as his equal" and neither would gain the power to defeat him. In the Potterverse, even legitimate prophecies can and do go unfulfilled, because they're merely a vision of what '''could''' happen, not a guarantee of what '''will''' happen.
15th Apr '17 9:16:30 AM nombretomado
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* ''TheFaerieQueene'': The sea nymph Marinell's mother was scared by a vague prophecy made by a sea god Proteus that a woman would be the cause of her son's doom. Assuming that the woman who could hurt him the most would be the one he loved, she forbade her son from falling in love or getting married... eventually leaving his girlfriend [[DistressedDamsel Florimell]] easy pickings for [[IHaveYouNowMyPretty Proteus]]. Meanwhile, the prophecy was fulfilled when Marinell was severely injured ''in battle'' with the ActionGirl KnightInShiningArmor Britomart. His mother eventually saw her error in interpreting the prophecy and got Zeus to release Florimell and give Proteus a stern lecture on abusing the power of prophecy to manipulate people.

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* ''TheFaerieQueene'': ''Literature/TheFaerieQueene'': The sea nymph Marinell's mother was scared by a vague prophecy made by a sea god Proteus that a woman would be the cause of her son's doom. Assuming that the woman who could hurt him the most would be the one he loved, she forbade her son from falling in love or getting married... eventually leaving his girlfriend [[DistressedDamsel Florimell]] easy pickings for [[IHaveYouNowMyPretty Proteus]]. Meanwhile, the prophecy was fulfilled when Marinell was severely injured ''in battle'' with the ActionGirl KnightInShiningArmor Britomart. His mother eventually saw her error in interpreting the prophecy and got Zeus to release Florimell and give Proteus a stern lecture on abusing the power of prophecy to manipulate people.
5th Apr '17 9:19:51 AM Kereea1
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5th Apr '17 9:18:10 AM Kereea1
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Added DiffLines:

** Elderly lasat mystic Chava discusses this trope. She's lived long enough to give multiple prophecies and knows there are multiple ways of interpreting even what seems very straightforward. In relation to her most recent prophecy about The Child, The Warrior, and the Fool, she admits to Zeb (the Child) that people change throughout their lives and thus his disbelief that Kallus is the Warrior (based in what he knows of Kallus) isn't enough to discount the entire prophecy. So far the parts involving Zeb and Kallus have been right, but part of Kallus fulfilling his part and forging his own destiny [[spoiler: via becoming the next Fulcrum]] only happened because Zeb, having fulfilled his role already, was willing to give him a chance and save his life.
3rd Apr '17 2:52:27 PM ImpudentInfidel
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* Overlapping with the self-fulfilling variation, the wizard whose prophesies form the narrative of the Myth 2 mod ''The Seventh God'' can see everything about the war but the identity of the BigBad, a foreigner who had united the scattered goblin tribes. He tries to prevent the game's events by traveling to their lands and trying to unite them and "lead them to greater glory." This trope is actually a rule of prophesies in the setting, as seers can't see their own future.

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* Overlapping with the self-fulfilling variation, the wizard whose prophesies form the narrative of the Myth 2 mod ''The Seventh God'' can see everything about the war but the identity of the BigBad, a foreigner who had united the scattered goblin tribes. He tries to prevent the game's events by traveling to their lands and trying to unite them and "lead them to greater glory." This trope is actually a rule of prophesies in the setting, as seers can't see their own future. He actually knows this rule, but is thrown off because he actually can see himself in the prophesies; it turns out it's his apprentice, who had adopted his name.
3rd Apr '17 2:32:19 PM ImpudentInfidel
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** ''Discworld/InterestingTimes'' references Croesus (below). A seer, who, as he's on the Discworld, probably has a decent batting average, is completely flummoxed by a demand to predict the outcome of a battle, which is understandable as Lady Luck, several billion chaotic-system-generating butterflies, and Rincewind ("With him here, even uncertainty is uncertain") are all in the immediate vicinity. Knowing that he would be put to death for admitting it, he says only that "a decisive victory would be won" -- neglecting to mention who would be the victor. Even then, he almost doesn't get away with it; Lord Hong demands to know if he's sure, and he only manages to escape by pretending to get indignant: "What, so you're the seer now? You can see what the liver means just here? I suppose you know all about this green wobbly bit over here!"

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** ''Discworld/InterestingTimes'' references Croesus (below). A seer, who, as he's on the Discworld, probably has a decent batting average, is completely flummoxed by a demand to predict the outcome of a battle, which is understandable as Lady Luck, several billion chaotic-system-generating butterflies, and Rincewind ("With him here, even uncertainty is uncertain") are all in the immediate vicinity. Knowing that he would be put to death for admitting it, he says only that "a decisive victory would be won" -- neglecting to mention who would be the victor. Even then, he almost doesn't get away with it; Lord Hong demands to know if he's sure, and he only manages to escape by pretending to get indignant: "What, so you're the seer now? You can see what the liver means just here? I suppose you know all about this green wobbly bit over here!"here!" He then waited until Hong had lost interest in him and legged it.
3rd Apr '17 2:30:23 PM ImpudentInfidel
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** It's also clear that Voldemort intended to kill both children, just to be sure. But once Harry survived the attempt and Voldemort was temporarily reduced to a near-death state, it became obvious that he was the one the prophecy referred to and thus Voldemort lost interest in the other child. He didn't realize, [[spoiler:and never did figure out]], that Harry was only TheChosenOne of the prophecy because ''[[HoistByHisOwnPetard Voldemort was the one who chose him]]''. As mentioned above, that's the Fallacy part of the PropheticFallacy.

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** It's also clear that Voldemort intended to kill both children, just to be sure. But once Harry survived the attempt and Voldemort was temporarily reduced to a near-death state, it became obvious that he was the one the prophecy referred to and thus Voldemort lost interest in the other child. He didn't realize, [[spoiler:and never did figure out]], that Harry was only TheChosenOne of the prophecy because ''[[HoistByHisOwnPetard Voldemort was the one who chose him]]''. As mentioned above, that's the Fallacy part of the PropheticFallacy. Also, the other child ended up being instrumental in his defeat.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.PropheticFallacy