History Main / PowerCreep

8th Feb '16 4:33:53 PM Mythros
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The thing is that this gets out of hand really easy, particularly in a LongRunner. After four or five expansions, with the new [[UpToEleven Infinity+8 Swords that gives you 10 free mana]], there is little point in using the [[SoLastSeason Inifinity+3 Sword that cost 2 mana]], and let's not talk about the lame [[OvershadowedByAwesome Inifnity+1 Sword that cost 5 mana!]] ([[SeinfeldIsUnfunny Who'd ever use that, anyway?]])
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The thing is that this gets out of hand really easy, particularly in a LongRunner. After four or five expansions, with the new [[UpToEleven Infinity+8 Swords that gives you 10 free mana]], there is little point in using the [[SoLastSeason Inifinity+3 Sword that cost 2 mana]], and let's not talk about the lame [[OvershadowedByAwesome Inifnity+1 Infinity+1 Sword that cost 5 mana!]] ([[SeinfeldIsUnfunny Who'd ever use that, anyway?]])
18th Jan '16 9:27:31 AM NoSpoilerz
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Just a grammar check. Looks better when it reads correctly.
This makes sense, [[MoneyDearBoy at least from a monetary point of view]]. New-added-content requires people to actually buy it and use it, but why would they use their money to buy some obscure thing they don't know how to use (yet) if [[{{Whoring}} they can keep on using]] their awesome InfinityPlusOneSword by paying 5 mana? Easy, make every new content item a [[GameBreaker Inifinity+2 Sword]] which requires 3 mana to work. And the same will happen in the next expansion, with a [[UpToEleven Infinity+3 Sword that only costs 2 mana]].
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This makes sense, [[MoneyDearBoy at least from a monetary point of view]]. New-added-content requires people to actually buy it and use it, but why would they use their money to buy some obscure thing they don't know how to use (yet) if [[{{Whoring}} they can keep on using]] their awesome InfinityPlusOneSword by paying 5 mana? Easy, make every new content item a an [[GameBreaker Inifinity+2 Sword]] which requires 3 mana to work. And the same will happen in the next expansion, with a an [[UpToEleven Infinity+3 Sword that only costs 2 mana]].
17th Dec '15 8:45:41 AM Megacles
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Added DiffLines:
** From Fifth Edition, the Favored Soul could arguably be an example of this. When creating a Sorcerer, one chooses an origin for their powers. The core rulebooks for Fifth Edition gave two: Draconic Bloodline and Wild Magic. Later material gave the Favored Soul. Traditionally, the sorcerer's greatest weakness has been knowing only a small handful of spells. When a Favored Soul is created, they select one Cleric domain and automatically learn those spells as they level up, in addition to the spells that a Sorcerer would usually know. From levels 1-9, the Favored Soul will know double the spells that any other Sorcerer will know, including some that arcane casters can't usually learn. They also are able to use simple weapons, shields, and light or medium armor, negating the [[SquishyWizard usual weakness]] even moreso than the Draconic Bloodline's first level trait.
16th Dec '15 7:02:10 PM nombretomado
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* ''LeagueOfLegends'' is a FreeToPlay MultiplayerOnlineBattleArena that updates frequently, usually accompanied with new characters. Accusations of this concept happening to the game are frequent and its developers' have made it clear they are seized on avoiding letting the issue pop up. {{Nerf}}s regularly happen in updates to the point that some players accuse the developer of releasing characters PurposelyOverpowered to cause [[{{Munchkin}} players who like winning]] to flock buying them with {{Microtransactions}} and then {{Nerf}} them in the next patch to placate their fanbase after raking in cash for a few weeks. That being said, numerous characters have been newly released with players responding loudly and surely that they're completely ''under''powered. While power creep has ''definitely'' set in over the years, Riot does seem to be making an effort to keep it from getting out of hand, which is best evidenced by their tendency to nerf strong champs rather than buff weak ones (as an overabundance of buffs tends to lead to the game turning into a trigger-happy crowd control and burst-fest).
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* ''LeagueOfLegends'' ''VideoGame/LeagueOfLegends'' is a FreeToPlay MultiplayerOnlineBattleArena that updates frequently, usually accompanied with new characters. Accusations of this concept happening to the game are frequent and its developers' have made it clear they are seized on avoiding letting the issue pop up. {{Nerf}}s regularly happen in updates to the point that some players accuse the developer of releasing characters PurposelyOverpowered to cause [[{{Munchkin}} players who like winning]] to flock buying them with {{Microtransactions}} and then {{Nerf}} them in the next patch to placate their fanbase after raking in cash for a few weeks. That being said, numerous characters have been newly released with players responding loudly and surely that they're completely ''under''powered. While power creep has ''definitely'' set in over the years, Riot does seem to be making an effort to keep it from getting out of hand, which is best evidenced by their tendency to nerf strong champs rather than buff weak ones (as an overabundance of buffs tends to lead to the game turning into a trigger-happy crowd control and burst-fest).
23rd Nov '15 10:59:38 PM TheDeathAlchemist
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27th Oct '15 1:26:44 AM TARINunit9
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** The Boltor Prime is the most blatant example for primary weapons. Compared to earlier Prime weapons (and even some later ones), it got a massive damage boost over its standard variant, and its accuracy doesn't suffer much from the damage-boosting Heavy Caliber mod. It's widely considered to be the "default" endgame rifle, to the point where many players dislike it because of how often it gets used. DE seems to have learned their lesson here, since while many primaries since have been on par with it, nothing has outright been able to outclass it. ** Newer Warframes tend to have more cohesive kits (compare Mirage to Saryn), but the real example is Prime Warframes. Initially, they were fancy reskins with different default polarities and a special interaction with the Death Orbs in the Void. That lasted until the fifth one, Rhino Prime, was released. In an unprecedented move, Rhino Prime had a statistical advantage over his base counterpart: his movement speed had been increased from 0.9 to 1.0. While the change wasn't game-breaking (without an Arcane Vanguard helmet, at least), the damage had been done. The very next Prime, Loki Prime, featured a significant boost to his energy pool, making it the highest in the game at the time. Then Nyx Prime came with two stat boosts, both modest and not especially helpful for her; this didn't stop Nova Prime from getting two significant stat boosts, one of which covered one of her weaknesses and the other of which tied her with Loki Prime for highest energy pool in the game. The real sign that things had gotten out of hand was when Volt Prime not only sextupled his armor, but also doubled his energy pool, putting him above even Loki Prime and Nova Prime. As of Update 16.11, we now have Ash Prime with [[SerialEscalation three]] moderate stat boosts. Excalibur Prime and Ember Prime were later updated to have minor armor buffs over their base variants, but they're still nowhere close to the improvements of later Prime Warframes.
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** The Boltor Prime is the most blatant example for primary weapons. Compared to earlier their non-Prime counterparts, most Prime weapons (and even some later ones), it got a massive have damage boost bonus between about 20% and about 40%. The Boltor Prime has a 120% bonus over its standard variant, and the Boltor. And unlike most guns its accuracy doesn't suffer much from the damage-boosting Heavy Caliber mod. It's widely considered to be the "default" endgame rifle, to the point where many players dislike it because of how often it gets used. DE seems to have learned their lesson here, since while many primaries since have been on par with it, nothing has outright been able to outclass it. ** Newer Warframes tend to have more cohesive kits (compare Mirage to Saryn), but the real example is Prime Warframes. Initially, they were fancy reskins with different default polarities and a special interaction with the Death Orbs in the Void. That lasted until the fifth one, Rhino Prime, was released. In an unprecedented move, Rhino Prime had a statistical advantage over his base counterpart: his movement speed had been increased from 0.9 to 1.0. While the change wasn't game-breaking (without an Arcane Vanguard helmet, at least), the damage had been done. The very next Prime, Loki Prime, featured a significant boost to his energy pool, making it the highest in the game at the time. Then Nyx Prime came with two stat boosts, both modest and not especially helpful for her; this didn't stop Nova Prime from getting two significant stat boosts, one of which covered one of her weaknesses and the other of which tied her with Loki Prime for highest energy pool in the game. The real sign that things had gotten out of hand was when Volt Prime not only sextupled his armor, but also doubled his energy pool, putting him above even Loki Prime and Nova Prime. As of Update 16.11, we now have Ash Prime with [[SerialEscalation three]] moderate stat boosts. Excalibur Prime and Prime, Ember Prime, and Frost Prime were later updated to have minor armor or shield buffs over their base variants, but they're still nowhere close to the improvements of later Prime Warframes.
24th Oct '15 10:12:50 AM Neophix
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* ''VideoGame/{{Elsword}}'' is pretty bad about this in both releasing overpowered new content and the nerfing of things, often resulting in an uneven level of power. Like the League of Legends example, people suspect the new classes are overpowered to cause people to buy class change items to change them. All the while they're very slow to really bring up older classes/characters up to speed to the newer ones.
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* ''VideoGame/{{Elsword}}'' is pretty bad about this in both releasing overpowered new content and the nerfing of things, often resulting in an uneven level of power. Like the League of Legends example, people suspect the new classes are overpowered to cause people to buy class change items to change them. All the while they're very slow to really bring up older classes/characters up to speed to the newer ones. Tellingly, despite being a CharacterTitle game, players of Elsword -the first character on the roster- are vanishingly rare in the end-game.
11th Oct '15 9:14:19 PM Darksilverhawk
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Cards from original example were not actually Power Creep, as the replaced cards were so far below the power curve they were nearly unplayable in their original states, as explained in linked EC episode.
This concept is discussed along with ways to circumvent it by ''WebVideo/ExtraCredits'' [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw here.]]
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This concept is discussed along with ways to circumvent it by ''WebVideo/ExtraCredits'' [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw here.]] here]] and again [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZnjwdStzUc here]] and [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3b3hDvRjJA here]].

* As new cards were introduced to ''{{VideoGames/Hearthstone}}'', Power Creep inevitably followed. The Grand Tournament expansion introduced a few cards that are blatantly better than its older counterparts: Evil Heckler is exactly the same as Booty Bay Bodyguard, but costs 1 Mana less. Magma Rager, with its imfamously low Health of 1, is completely outclassed by Ice Rager with its single extra Health.
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* As new cards were introduced to ''{{VideoGames/Hearthstone}}'', Power Creep inevitably followed. For example, when released Piloted Shredder was so much more powerful than any existing four mana minion that in most cases it became the only card worth playing at that cost. The Grand Tournament following expansion introduced a few had to include several cards that are blatantly better than its older counterparts: Evil Heckler is exactly designed specifically to counter it because the same as Booty Bay Bodyguard, but costs 1 Mana less. Magma Rager, with its imfamously low Health of 1, is completely outclassed by Ice Rager with its single extra Health.card had become so dominant. ''Extra Credits'' discusses this specific case in detail [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3b3hDvRjJA here.]]
27th Sep '15 9:44:47 PM videogmer314
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[[caption-width-right:350:[-'''On your left''': Four useful cards at the time of their releases but with some draw-back (Blue-Eyes[[note]]a powerful 3000 ATK monster which requires 2 tributes[[/note]]; Nyan Nyan[[note]]Powerful 1900 ATK monster which was destroyed when controlling a non-LIGHT monster[[/note]]; Moisture[[note]]Requires 2 or 3 tributes. If summoned with 3 tributes, destroys enemy's Spell and Trap cards[[/note]]; Gilford[[note]]Requires 2 or 3 tributes. If summoned with 3 tributes, destroys enemy's Monsters[[/note]]). '''On your right''': One card released later that can do the same as those four, at the same time, with no draw-back. [[note]]Can be summoned with no tributes with 1900 ATK. Can be summoned with 2 tributes with 3000 ATK. Can be summoned with 3 tributes to destroy all cards on your opponent's field.[[/note]]-] ]]
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[[caption-width-right:350:[-'''On your left''': Four useful cards at the time of their releases but with some draw-back (Blue-Eyes[[note]]a powerful 3000 ATK monster which requires 2 tributes[[/note]]; Nyan Nyan[[note]]Powerful 1900 ATK monster which was destroyed when controlling that dies if you control a non-LIGHT monster[[/note]]; Moisture[[note]]Requires 2 or 3 tributes. If summoned with 3 tributes, destroys enemy's Spell and Trap cards[[/note]]; Gilford[[note]]Requires 2 or 3 tributes. If summoned with 3 tributes, destroys enemy's Monsters[[/note]]). '''On your right''': One card released later that can do the same as those four, at the same time, with no draw-back. [[note]]Can be summoned with no tributes with 1900 ATK. Can be summoned with 2 tributes with 3000 ATK. Can be summoned with 3 tributes to destroy all cards on your opponent's field.[[/note]]-] ]]
27th Sep '15 3:46:04 PM Karxrida
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Natter and metagame stuff.
* ''VideoGame/{{Pokemon}}'' is a variant case. While a form of power creep is occurring, for the most part the actual Pokémon species are not being obsoleted, as the base stat totals have actually remained fairly consistent across the generations. What has happened is the addition of [[GameBreaker passive abilities and new moves whose presence can render older strategies obsolete.]] However, these are often retrofitted onto existing Pokémon rather than being exclusive to new ones. Generally those that suffer the most are ones who don't really change across the generations and get "left behind". [[LethalJokeCharacter Wobbuffet]], for example, which hasn't changed even slightly since Generation III (aside from one of its moves, Encore, getting nerfed), is no longer considered a GameBreaker and has been unbanned from standard play (although it's still considered a significant threat). Other Pokémon that had dominated standard play in the past have sometimes been reclassed by the competitive community into lower tiers, thrown down into the little leagues so to speak, to keep them viable, a recent victim of this being good ol' Snorlax. On the other hand, some Pokémon have managed to remain viable in standard play throughout all the generations, such as Alakazam and Gengar. And some that had been considered worthless their whole existence receive shiny new moves and get thrust into the limelight. ** Alakazam is actually kind of a strange case. It was one of the very best Pokémon of the first generation, but then steadily got worse as new generations came along and were increasingly hostile to Psychic-types. Then Generation V came and gave it Magic Guard, making it immune to passive damage. This ''alone'' made it one of the best Pokémon in the game again. Website/{{Smogon}} talks about it [[http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue30/alakazam here]]. ** There is some manner of PowerCreep however... or perhaps Power Seep. Around Gen IV, there was an obvious divide: Gen I and II Mons had the vastly-superior stats, and were full of glass cannons, MightyGlacier Pokémon, etc. Gen III and Gen IV, however, had the better movesets and abilities. The result was that Gen I and II monsters went largely untouched competitively. Gen V, however, was a paradigm shift, with the release of Hidden Abilities - special alternate abilities which could only be gained in the Dream World. Suddenly, old boys like Dragonite (which had been living in other Dragon-types' shadows since Gen III) became THE powerhouses of Gen V, (in Dragonite's case: its Hidden Ability halves all damage when it's at full health, effectively removing its double-weakness to Ice, which ALL legal dragons up until then shared, thus making it extremely powerful AND bulky). *** Gen VI only thrust Gen I and II monsters even more to the forefront by introducing Mega Evolutions - once-per-battle boosts that raise certain Pokémon to Mewtwo-levels of power, sometimes changing their Types (such as Mega Charizard X now being a Dragon/Fire type), and sometimes with radically new and/or useful abilities (Mega Charizard Y, for instance, has a Sunny Day effect upon entering the fight)... though at the cost of a (very useful) Held Item slot and you're limited to 1 Mega per team. (Ironically, Mewtwo is one of these Pokémon, who immediately jumps to having the bar-none highest stats of any and all Pokémon, including [[PhysicalGod Arceus]]...[[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu think about that for a moment]]. *** Gen I and II Pokémon STILL have, on average, worse movepools than their Gen III and IV counterparts, though their better stats and still-passable pools make up the difference. Gen V and VI Pokémon are more balanced all-around, having better stats than Gen III and IV but worse than I and II, and better pools and abilities than Gen I and II but worse than III and IV. Notably, Gen V and VI Pokémon seem to be based more around "gimmicks" with intended strategies in mind (such as Throh having high HP and Bide innately - an old strategy possible with Blissey in Gen II but removed with the franchise-wide hard conversion to Gen III), whereas Gen I-IV Pokémon were very much mix-and-match in their move pools. *** Hyper Beam still has the highest base power, 150, of any non-suicide move (other than V-Create, a very rarely available event skill), but originally it was the only move of its kind. Gen III added 3 equivalent moves for Fire, Water, and Grass types, and Gen IV added 3 more. Many other nearly-Hyper-Beam-level moves have popped up, and many old moves have seen significant buffs: Petal Dance went from 70 to 90 to 120, and High Jump Kick ascended from 85 to 100 to 130 (both had their PP cut in half to compensate, though). The balance may have shifted from high stats and weak moves to low stats and powerful moves. ** Speaking of Alakazam, one of the changes in Gen VI was a few generation 1 Pokemon getting a small base stat total boost. Alakazam was one of them, along with also getting a mega. Alakazam's mega happens to be the only mega to only boost the stats by 90 instead of 100, and Alakazam, coincidentally, got a base state increase of 10.
to:
* ''VideoGame/{{Pokemon}}'' is a variant case. While a form of power creep is occurring, for the most part the actual ''VideoGame/{{Pokemon}}'': Pokémon species are not being obsoleted, as the base stat totals have actually remained fairly consistent across the generations. What has happened is the addition of [[GameBreaker passive abilities and new moves whose presence can render older strategies obsolete.]] However, these are often retrofitted onto existing Pokémon rather than being exclusive to new ones. Generally those spreads slowly became more specialized as time went on. Those that suffer the most are ones who don't really change across the generations could be see as {{Lightning Bruiser}}s in ''Red and get "left behind". [[LethalJokeCharacter Wobbuffet]], for example, which hasn't changed even slightly since Generation III (aside from one of its moves, Encore, getting nerfed), is no longer considered a GameBreaker and has been unbanned from standard play (although it's still considered a significant threat). Other Pokémon that had dominated standard play in the past have sometimes been reclassed Blue'' became [[JackOfAllStats Jacks-Of-All-Stats]] as more MinMaxing was done by the competitive community into lower tiers, thrown down into the little leagues so designers. In ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY'' it reached its zenith with [[SuperMode Mega Evolutions]], which are explicitly designed to speak, to keep them viable, a recent victim of this being good ol' Snorlax. On the other hand, some Pokémon have managed to remain viable in standard play throughout all the generations, such as Alakazam and Gengar. And some that had been considered worthless their whole existence receive shiny new moves and get thrust into the limelight. ** Alakazam is actually kind of a strange case. It was one of the very best Pokémon of the first generation, but then steadily got worse as new generations came along and were increasingly hostile to Psychic-types. Then Generation V came and gave it Magic Guard, making it immune to passive damage. This ''alone'' made it one of the best Pokémon in the game again. Website/{{Smogon}} talks about it [[http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue30/alakazam here]]. ** There is some manner of PowerCreep however... or perhaps Power Seep. Around Gen IV, there was an obvious divide: Gen I and II Mons had the vastly-superior stats, and were full of glass cannons, MightyGlacier Pokémon, etc. Gen III and Gen IV, however, had the better movesets and abilities. The result was that Gen I and II monsters went largely untouched competitively. Gen V, however, was a paradigm shift, be on par with the release of Hidden Abilities - special alternate abilities which could only be gained in the Dream World. Suddenly, old boys like Dragonite (which had been living in other Dragon-types' shadows since Gen III) became THE powerhouses of Gen V, (in Dragonite's case: its Hidden Ability halves all damage when it's at full health, effectively removing its double-weakness to Ice, which ALL legal dragons up until then shared, thus making it extremely powerful AND bulky). *** Gen VI only thrust Gen I and II monsters even more to the forefront by introducing Mega Evolutions - once-per-battle boosts that raise certain Pokémon to Mewtwo-levels of power, sometimes changing their Types (such as Mega Charizard X now being a Dragon/Fire type), and sometimes series OlympusMons with radically new and/or useful abilities (Mega Charizard Y, for instance, has a Sunny Day effect upon entering the fight)... though at the cost of a (very useful) Held Item slot and you're limited to 1 Mega per team. (Ironically, Mewtwo is one of these Pokémon, who immediately jumps to having the bar-none highest stats of any and all Pokémon, including [[PhysicalGod Arceus]]...[[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu think about that for a moment]]. *** Gen I and II Pokémon STILL have, on average, worse movepools than their Gen III and IV counterparts, though their better stats and still-passable pools make up the difference. Gen V and VI Pokémon are more balanced all-around, having better stats than Gen III and IV but worse than I and II, and better pools and abilities than Gen I and II but worse than III and IV. Notably, Gen V and VI Pokémon seem to be based more around "gimmicks" with intended strategies in mind (such as Throh having high HP and Bide innately - an old strategy possible with Blissey in Gen II but removed with the franchise-wide hard conversion to Gen III), whereas Gen I-IV Pokémon were very much mix-and-match in their move pools. *** Hyper Beam still has the highest base power, 150, of any non-suicide move (other than V-Create, a very rarely available event skill), but originally it was the only move of its kind. Gen III added 3 equivalent moves for Fire, Water, and Grass types, and Gen IV added 3 more. Many other nearly-Hyper-Beam-level moves have popped up, and many old moves have seen significant buffs: Petal Dance went from 70 to 90 to 120, and High Jump Kick ascended from 85 to 100 to 130 (both had their PP cut in half to compensate, though). The balance may have shifted from high stats and weak moves to low stats and powerful moves. ** Speaking of Alakazam, one of the changes in Gen VI was a few generation 1 Pokemon getting a small base less stat total boost. Alakazam was one of them, along with also getting a mega. Alakazam's mega happens points to be the only mega to only boost the stats by 90 instead of 100, and Alakazam, coincidentally, got a base state increase of 10.go around.
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