History Main / PointDefenseless

6th Sep '17 9:47:36 PM LinTaylor
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** In ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamCharsCounterattack Char's Counterattack]]'', a Neo-Zeon ace is killed by the ''[[CoolShip Ra-Cailum]]'''s point defense after getting cocky and attacking the ship by herself.
** Garrod Ran of ''[[Anime/AfterWarGundamX Gundam X]]'' managed to defeat a MonsterOfTheWeek mobile suit, a Correl, with his Gundam's head vulcans, but only because it was the most fragile of {{Fragile Speedster}}s.[[note]]The pilot, whose preferred combat style was DeathByAThousandCuts, ordered the mechanics to strip it of any and all excess weight -- which included all the armor except for the bare minimum required to cover up the internal machinery.[[/note]]

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** In Quite a few mobile suits (including almost every single Gundam) have vulcan guns mounted in their heads or chests. These rarely ever get used, since all they're good for is taking out cameras or the occasional CriticalHit; they don't even get used to shoot down missiles, their intended function. The only aversion comes in ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSeed Gundam SEED C.E.73 Stargazer]]'', where we get a very visceral demonstration of anti-personnel machineguns mounted in the [[MeaningfulName Slaughter Daggers']] feet. Exceptions also occur in ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamCharsCounterattack Char's Counterattack]]'', a Neo-Zeon ace is killed by Counterattack]]'' (where the ''[[CoolShip Ra-Cailum]]'''s point defense after getting cocky Nu Gundam shreds a Geara Doga with its head vulcans) and attacking the ship by herself.
** Garrod Ran of
in ''[[Anime/AfterWarGundamX Gundam X]]'' managed to defeat X]]'', where (the Double X defeats a MonsterOfTheWeek mobile suit, a Correl, suit with his Gundam's head vulcans, but only vulcans because it was the most fragile of {{Fragile Speedster}}s.[[note]]The pilot, whose preferred combat style was DeathByAThousandCuts, ordered the mechanics to strip it of any and all excess weight -- which included all the armor except for the bare minimum required to cover up the internal machinery.[[/note]][[/note]]).
** Also in ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamCharsCounterattack Char's Counterattack]]'', a Neo-Zeon ace is killed by the ''[[CoolShip Ra-Cailum]]'''s point defenses after getting cocky and attacking the ship by herself.



** Additionally, quite a few mobile suits (including almost every single Gundam) has vulcan guns mounted in their heads or chests. These rarely ever get used, since all they're good for is taking out cameras or the occasional CriticalHit; they don't even get used to shoot down missiles, their intended function. The only aversion comes in ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSeed Gundam SEED C.E.73 Stargazer]]'', where we get a very visceral demonstration of anti-personnel machineguns mounted in the [[MeaningfulName Slaughter Daggers']] feet. Exceptions also occur in ''Char's Counterattack'' (where the Nu Gundam shreds a Geara Doga with its head vulcans) and the aforementioned example from ''Gundam X''.
22nd Aug '17 8:48:04 PM thespecialneedsgroup
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** Notably, an aversion is hinted at in the ''[[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration TNG]]'' episode "Conundrum," when six Lysian fighters attempt to intercept ''Enterprise''. In a casual, almost offhanded salvo of phaser fire, ''Enterprise'' [[CurbStompBattle destroys all six at very close range in under two seconds]].
22nd Aug '17 5:47:39 AM EDP
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** Similarly, the space battle at the end of ''Film/ThePhantomMenace'' shows Naboo fighters getting blown out of the sky, but they don't seem to bother Anakin in the least.

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** Similarly, the space battle at the end of ''Film/ThePhantomMenace'' shows the guns of the droid control ship are ineffective against the Naboo fighters getting blown out of the sky, but they don't seem to bother and, most importantly, can't stop Anakin from ''landing in their hangar''. {{Justified}} as [[TechnicallyATransport it's actually a giant merchant ship that was originally unarmed (the powerful shields and the least.sheer size being its best defense against attacks from underequipped pirates) and has been hastily refitted with some weapons]] before the invasion of Naboo (as a planetary government would have access to better weapons than pirates).
16th Jul '17 4:31:43 PM WillKeaton
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** Garrod Ran of ''[[Anime/AfterWarGundamX Gundam X]]'' managed to defeat a MonsterOfTheWeek mobile suit, a Correl, with his Gundam's head vulcans, but only because it was the most fragile of {{Fragile Speedster}}s[[note]]The pilot, whose preferred combat style was DeathByAThousandCuts, ordered the mechanics to strip it of any and all excess weight -- which included all the armor except for the bare minimum required to cover up the internal machinery[[/note]].

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** Garrod Ran of ''[[Anime/AfterWarGundamX Gundam X]]'' managed to defeat a MonsterOfTheWeek mobile suit, a Correl, with his Gundam's head vulcans, but only because it was the most fragile of {{Fragile Speedster}}s[[note]]The Speedster}}s.[[note]]The pilot, whose preferred combat style was DeathByAThousandCuts, ordered the mechanics to strip it of any and all excess weight -- which included all the armor except for the bare minimum required to cover up the internal machinery[[/note]].machinery.[[/note]]
26th Jun '17 7:42:00 AM InterLoper
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[[folder: Web Comics ]]
* Downplayed and justified in ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary'': ''Touch-and-Go'' wouldn't be able to scratch [[spoiler: UNS battleplate ''Morokweng'']] if the latter's annie-plants and shields weren't down in an attempt to [[spoiler: hide from a [[EldritchAbomination Pa'anuri]]]], and the remaining point defenses were ineffective against Tagii who had her shield still up as she [[spoiler: [[RammingAlwaysWorks rammed the battleplate]] and smashed clear through before the Pa'anuri she lured in tore ''Morokweng'' apart like a wet tissue]]. And still, [[spoiler: ''Touch-and-Go'' was rendered barely mobile and irreparably damaged by the [=PDs=] in the process]].

[[/folder]]
25th Jun '17 9:08:07 AM trumpetmarietta
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*** ''HMS Repulse'' and ''HMS Prince of Wales'' were sunk in 1941 by land-based Japanese aircraft, and became the first capital ships to be sunk purely by air-power. They were operating without the support of any smaller vessels or fighter cover. The early loss of electrical power on the modern ''Prince of Wales'' didn't help, as its anti-aircraft turrets were rendered inoperative. It also helped the Japanese a lot that the 40 mm shells had suffered from heat and humidity and the [[DidntThinkThisThrough electronics and fine mechanics of the HACS anti-aircraft fire control system was designed for operating in cold and temperate climates]], such as Atlantic and Mediterranean, and was rendered inoperable in the heat and humidity tropics. Both ships could have just as well thrown rocks against the attacking Japanese. On the other hand, RN capital ships had successfully defended themself against German and Italian land-based bombers for two years at Atlantic and Mediterranean before the Force Z disaster.

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*** ''HMS Repulse'' HMS ''Repulse'' and ''HMS Prince HMS ''Prince of Wales'' were sunk in 1941 by land-based Japanese aircraft, and became the first capital ships to be sunk purely by air-power. They were operating without the support of any smaller vessels or fighter cover. The early loss of electrical power on the modern ''Prince of Wales'' didn't help, as its anti-aircraft turrets were rendered inoperative. It also helped the Japanese a lot that the 40 mm shells had suffered from heat and humidity and the [[DidntThinkThisThrough electronics and fine mechanics of the HACS anti-aircraft fire control system was designed for operating in cold and temperate climates]], such as Atlantic and Mediterranean, and was rendered inoperable in the heat and humidity tropics. Both ships could have just as well thrown rocks against the attacking Japanese. On the other hand, RN capital ships had successfully defended themself against German and Italian land-based bombers for two years at Atlantic and Mediterranean before the Force Z disaster.
4th Jun '17 1:21:46 PM thatother1dude
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* ''WesternAnimation/{{Gargoyles}}'' used this. One wonders why Xanatos and Macbeth invested so much money in their respective point-defence systems, given that the turrets were invariably too slow to track gargoyles in NotQuiteFlight and were made short work of.
* Averted in Disney's ''WesternAnimation/TaleSpin'', the only entrance to Cape Suzette by air or sea is through a long, narrow canyon cut into a sheer cliff. To protect the city against invasion, the top of the cliff, as well as the canyon walls, are littered with dozens of manned anti-air flak guns. Although individually they're not very accurate, the sheer ''[[MoreDakka number]]'' of them makes their barrage so fearsome even the Air Pirates in their flying fortress would rather turn tail than face them.

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* ''WesternAnimation/{{Gargoyles}}'' used this. ''WesternAnimation/{{Gargoyles}}'': One wonders why Xanatos and Macbeth invested so much money in their respective point-defence systems, given that the turrets were invariably too slow to track gargoyles in NotQuiteFlight and were made short work of.
* Averted in Disney's ''WesternAnimation/TaleSpin'', ''WesternAnimation/TaleSpin'': the only entrance to Cape Suzette by air or sea is through a long, narrow canyon cut into a sheer cliff. To protect the city against invasion, the top of the cliff, as well as the canyon walls, are littered with dozens of manned anti-air flak guns. Although individually they're not very accurate, the sheer ''[[MoreDakka number]]'' of them makes their barrage so fearsome even the Air Pirates in their flying fortress would rather turn tail than face them.
18th May '17 1:05:11 AM KayEss
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*** Later models are guided. A similar (prototype) design, the German ''Superkavitierende Unterwasserlaufkörper'', is even claimed to be so agile that it could, in theory, even be used to intercept other supercavitating torpedoes. Note that some early models of the VA-111 Shkval were equipped with a [[MoreDakka nuclear warhead]].
18th May '17 12:51:23 AM KayEss
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*** This also described by Hans-Ulrich Rudel in the book ''Stuka Pilot'': AA fire was largely ineffective at shooting down attacking bombers, but would frighten inexperienced pilots enough to take evasive maneuvers or release their bombs too early. Rudel himself was shot down or forced to land 30 times by AA fire - through the course of 2,530 combat missions. He also claims that later in WWII, as planes got faster, the then unusual slowness of his propeller aircraft made targeting him more difficult.
13th May '17 7:55:52 PM marcoasalazarm
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* ''Literature/HonorHarrington'', being relatively-realistically-extrapolated SpaceOpera MilitaryScienceFiction, plays with this in fifteen different ways. Firstly, no one is ever actually flying in any sort of SpaceFighter that would be vulnerable to point defense systems[[note]]Although atmospheric vehicles such as aircars, shuttles, pinnaces, and stingships are fair game planetside[[/note]], but they use many different layers of missile defense to deal with the MacrossMissileMassacre that becomes the standard method of attack. Of course, actual point defense systems as we know them are only one layer of this shield, and not nearly the most effective one. On the other hand, they do form one of the final lines of defense against enemy fire. Of course, the older ships of the Solarian League use autocannon point defense (as opposed to laser) which is horribly obsolete compared to Manticoran or Havenite multi-drive missiles, and so will play the trope straight.

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* ''Literature/HonorHarrington'', being relatively-realistically-extrapolated SpaceOpera MilitaryScienceFiction, plays with this in fifteen different ways. Firstly, no one is ever actually flying in any sort of SpaceFighter that would be vulnerable to point defense systems[[note]]Although atmospheric vehicles such as aircars, shuttles, pinnaces, and stingships are fair game planetside[[/note]], but they use many different layers of missile defense to deal with the MacrossMissileMassacre that becomes the standard method of attack. Of course, actual point defense systems as we know them are only one layer of this shield, and not nearly the most effective one. On the other hand, they do form one of the final lines of defense against enemy fire. Of course, the older ships of the Solarian League use autocannon point defense (as opposed to laser) which is horribly obsolete compared to Manticoran or Havenite multi-drive missiles, and so will play the trope straight. straight (so it's pretty much a RunningGag within the series to provide the number of missiles incoming and the multiple countermeasures that prevent 'X' number from hitting the ship over many paragraphs... only to end with "one got through". And that 'one' makes all the dramatic catastrophe that the whole barrage probably wouldn't have).
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