History Main / PointDefenseless

26th Jun '17 7:42:00 AM InterLoper
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[[folder: Web Comics ]]
* Downplayed and justified in ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary'': ''Touch-and-Go'' wouldn't be able to scratch [[spoiler: UNS battleplate ''Morokweng'']] if the latter's annie-plants and shields weren't down in an attempt to [[spoiler: hide from a [[EldritchAbomination Pa'anuri]]]], and the remaining point defenses were ineffective against Tagii who had her shield still up as she [[spoiler: [[RammingAlwaysWorks rammed the battleplate]] and smashed clear through before the Pa'anuri she lured in tore ''Morokweng'' apart like a wet tissue]]. And still, [[spoiler: ''Touch-and-Go'' was rendered barely mobile and irreparably damaged by the [=PDs=] in the process]].

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25th Jun '17 9:08:07 AM trumpetmarietta
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*** ''HMS Repulse'' and ''HMS Prince of Wales'' were sunk in 1941 by land-based Japanese aircraft, and became the first capital ships to be sunk purely by air-power. They were operating without the support of any smaller vessels or fighter cover. The early loss of electrical power on the modern ''Prince of Wales'' didn't help, as its anti-aircraft turrets were rendered inoperative. It also helped the Japanese a lot that the 40 mm shells had suffered from heat and humidity and the [[DidntThinkThisThrough electronics and fine mechanics of the HACS anti-aircraft fire control system was designed for operating in cold and temperate climates]], such as Atlantic and Mediterranean, and was rendered inoperable in the heat and humidity tropics. Both ships could have just as well thrown rocks against the attacking Japanese. On the other hand, RN capital ships had successfully defended themself against German and Italian land-based bombers for two years at Atlantic and Mediterranean before the Force Z disaster.

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*** ''HMS Repulse'' HMS ''Repulse'' and ''HMS Prince HMS ''Prince of Wales'' were sunk in 1941 by land-based Japanese aircraft, and became the first capital ships to be sunk purely by air-power. They were operating without the support of any smaller vessels or fighter cover. The early loss of electrical power on the modern ''Prince of Wales'' didn't help, as its anti-aircraft turrets were rendered inoperative. It also helped the Japanese a lot that the 40 mm shells had suffered from heat and humidity and the [[DidntThinkThisThrough electronics and fine mechanics of the HACS anti-aircraft fire control system was designed for operating in cold and temperate climates]], such as Atlantic and Mediterranean, and was rendered inoperable in the heat and humidity tropics. Both ships could have just as well thrown rocks against the attacking Japanese. On the other hand, RN capital ships had successfully defended themself against German and Italian land-based bombers for two years at Atlantic and Mediterranean before the Force Z disaster.
4th Jun '17 1:21:46 PM thatother1dude
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* ''WesternAnimation/{{Gargoyles}}'' used this. One wonders why Xanatos and Macbeth invested so much money in their respective point-defence systems, given that the turrets were invariably too slow to track gargoyles in NotQuiteFlight and were made short work of.
* Averted in Disney's ''WesternAnimation/TaleSpin'', the only entrance to Cape Suzette by air or sea is through a long, narrow canyon cut into a sheer cliff. To protect the city against invasion, the top of the cliff, as well as the canyon walls, are littered with dozens of manned anti-air flak guns. Although individually they're not very accurate, the sheer ''[[MoreDakka number]]'' of them makes their barrage so fearsome even the Air Pirates in their flying fortress would rather turn tail than face them.

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* ''WesternAnimation/{{Gargoyles}}'' used this. ''WesternAnimation/{{Gargoyles}}'': One wonders why Xanatos and Macbeth invested so much money in their respective point-defence systems, given that the turrets were invariably too slow to track gargoyles in NotQuiteFlight and were made short work of.
* Averted in Disney's ''WesternAnimation/TaleSpin'', ''WesternAnimation/TaleSpin'': the only entrance to Cape Suzette by air or sea is through a long, narrow canyon cut into a sheer cliff. To protect the city against invasion, the top of the cliff, as well as the canyon walls, are littered with dozens of manned anti-air flak guns. Although individually they're not very accurate, the sheer ''[[MoreDakka number]]'' of them makes their barrage so fearsome even the Air Pirates in their flying fortress would rather turn tail than face them.
18th May '17 1:05:11 AM KayEss
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*** Later models are guided. A similar (prototype) design, the German ''Superkavitierende Unterwasserlaufkörper'', is even claimed to be so agile that it could, in theory, even be used to intercept other supercavitating torpedoes. Note that some early models of the VA-111 Shkval were equipped with a [[MoreDakka nuclear warhead]].
18th May '17 12:51:23 AM KayEss
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*** This also described by Hans-Ulrich Rudel in the book ''Stuka Pilot'': AA fire was largely ineffective at shooting down attacking bombers, but would frighten inexperienced pilots enough to take evasive maneuvers or release their bombs too early. Rudel himself was shot down or forced to land 30 times by AA fire - through the course of 2,530 combat missions. He also claims that later in WWII, as planes got faster, the then unusual slowness of his propeller aircraft made targeting him more difficult.
13th May '17 7:55:52 PM marcoasalazarm
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* ''Literature/HonorHarrington'', being relatively-realistically-extrapolated SpaceOpera MilitaryScienceFiction, plays with this in fifteen different ways. Firstly, no one is ever actually flying in any sort of SpaceFighter that would be vulnerable to point defense systems[[note]]Although atmospheric vehicles such as aircars, shuttles, pinnaces, and stingships are fair game planetside[[/note]], but they use many different layers of missile defense to deal with the MacrossMissileMassacre that becomes the standard method of attack. Of course, actual point defense systems as we know them are only one layer of this shield, and not nearly the most effective one. On the other hand, they do form one of the final lines of defense against enemy fire. Of course, the older ships of the Solarian League use autocannon point defense (as opposed to laser) which is horribly obsolete compared to Manticoran or Havenite multi-drive missiles, and so will play the trope straight.

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* ''Literature/HonorHarrington'', being relatively-realistically-extrapolated SpaceOpera MilitaryScienceFiction, plays with this in fifteen different ways. Firstly, no one is ever actually flying in any sort of SpaceFighter that would be vulnerable to point defense systems[[note]]Although atmospheric vehicles such as aircars, shuttles, pinnaces, and stingships are fair game planetside[[/note]], but they use many different layers of missile defense to deal with the MacrossMissileMassacre that becomes the standard method of attack. Of course, actual point defense systems as we know them are only one layer of this shield, and not nearly the most effective one. On the other hand, they do form one of the final lines of defense against enemy fire. Of course, the older ships of the Solarian League use autocannon point defense (as opposed to laser) which is horribly obsolete compared to Manticoran or Havenite multi-drive missiles, and so will play the trope straight. straight (so it's pretty much a RunningGag within the series to provide the number of missiles incoming and the multiple countermeasures that prevent 'X' number from hitting the ship over many paragraphs... only to end with "one got through". And that 'one' makes all the dramatic catastrophe that the whole barrage probably wouldn't have).
17th Apr '17 2:06:33 PM Winter
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* Averted in the ''VideoGame/NavalOps'' series. The customization allowed in the game means that you can fit your ships with enough point-defense guns that any missiles, torpedoes, or aircraft that get into range [[InstantDeathRadius will instantly cease to exist]].



* Averted in ''VideoGame/NavalOps''. If you mount enough of the advanced point-defense guns, the CIWS and later Pulse Lasers, your ship can fill the air with a barrage of bullets and lasers that will completely pulp any missiles and aircraft coming to attack you. Don't be surprised if your ship goes up against hundreds of bombers and a storm of enemy missiles and comes out unscathed.

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* Averted in ''VideoGame/NavalOps''. If you mount enough of Point defense weapons run the advanced point-defense guns, the CIWS gamut from machine guns to lasers to rapid-fire missiles and later Pulse Lasers, your can be mounted in very large numbers. The player ship can fill the air with a barrage of bullets and lasers that will completely pulp any incoming missiles and aircraft coming to attack you. Don't be surprised if your ship goes up against hundreds of bombers aircraft. Mines and a storm of enemy missiles torpedoes can only be intercepted by machine guns, and comes out unscathed. mines must be targeted manually. Enemy ships generally mount a handful of AA guns that occasionally intercept something.
17th Apr '17 1:46:28 AM Kadorhal
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** Garrod Ran of ''[[Anime/AfterWarGundamX Gundam X]]'' managed to defeat a MonsterOfTheWeek mobile suit with his Gundam's head vulcans, but only because it was the most fragile of {{Fragile Speedster}}s[[note]]The pilot, whose preferred combat style was DeathByAThousandCuts, ordered the mechanics to strip it of any and all excess weight -- which included all the armor except for the bare minimum required to cover up the internal machinery[[/note]].

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** Garrod Ran of ''[[Anime/AfterWarGundamX Gundam X]]'' managed to defeat a MonsterOfTheWeek mobile suit suit, a Correl, with his Gundam's head vulcans, but only because it was the most fragile of {{Fragile Speedster}}s[[note]]The pilot, whose preferred combat style was DeathByAThousandCuts, ordered the mechanics to strip it of any and all excess weight -- which included all the armor except for the bare minimum required to cover up the internal machinery[[/note]].



** Additionally, quite a few mobile suits (including almost every single Gundam) has vulcan guns mounted in their heads or chests. These rarely ever get used, since all they're good for is taking out cameras or the occasional CriticalHit; they don't even get used to shoot down missiles, their intended function. The only aversion comes in ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSeed Gundam SEED C.E.73 Stargazer]]'', where we get a very visceral demonstration of anti-personnel machineguns mounted in the [[MeaningfulName Slaughter Daggers']] feet. Exceptions also occur in ''Char's Counterattack'' (where the Nu Gundam shreds a Geara Doga with its head vulcans) and in ''Gundam X'' (where the same happens to the Colrel, a FragileSpeedster MonsterOfTheWeek mecha).

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** Additionally, quite a few mobile suits (including almost every single Gundam) has vulcan guns mounted in their heads or chests. These rarely ever get used, since all they're good for is taking out cameras or the occasional CriticalHit; they don't even get used to shoot down missiles, their intended function. The only aversion comes in ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSeed Gundam SEED C.E.73 Stargazer]]'', where we get a very visceral demonstration of anti-personnel machineguns mounted in the [[MeaningfulName Slaughter Daggers']] feet. Exceptions also occur in ''Char's Counterattack'' (where the Nu Gundam shreds a Geara Doga with its head vulcans) and in the aforementioned example from ''Gundam X'' (where the same happens to the Colrel, a FragileSpeedster MonsterOfTheWeek mecha).X''.



** The climactic battle in ''Film/ANewHope'' has the Death Star's ([[SchizoTech manually aimed]]) point defense unable to hit more than one or two {{Red Shirt}}s, forcing Darth Vader and his TIE fighters to go out and take on the Rebels in an OldSchoolDogfight. This is noted in the Rebel mission briefing as the reason they sent only fighters; the Empire considered one-man craft to be a negligible threat to the station and so they're basically taking potshots with anti-capital ship weapons. In ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi'', the Empire learns its lesson and builds its second Death Star with thick anti-fighter defenses and surrounds the whole station in a massive energy shield during construction.

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** The climactic battle in ''Film/ANewHope'' has the Death Star's ([[SchizoTech manually aimed]]) point defense unable to hit more than one or two {{Red Shirt}}s, forcing Darth Vader and his TIE fighters to go out and take on the Rebels in an OldSchoolDogfight. This is noted in the Rebel mission briefing as the reason they sent only fighters; the Empire considered one-man craft to be a negligible threat to the station and so they're basically taking potshots with anti-capital ship weapons. In ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi'', the Empire learns its lesson and builds its second Death Star with thick anti-fighter defenses defenses, including multiple Star Destroyers with full complements of their own starfighters, and surrounds the whole station in a massive energy shield during construction.



* {{Invoked}} in some of the ''[[Franchise/StarWarsExpandedUniverse Star Wars]]'' [[Franchise/StarWarsExpandedUniverse Expanded Universe]] books, particularly the ''ComicBook/XWingSeries''. Though lucky shots will probably take a few out, the only really effective way to keep {{Space Fighter}}s from battering capital ships to death is [[OldSchoolDogfight other space fighters]].

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* {{Invoked}} in some of the ''[[Franchise/StarWarsExpandedUniverse Star Wars]]'' [[Franchise/StarWarsExpandedUniverse Expanded Universe]] Franchise/StarWarsExpandedUniverse books, particularly the ''ComicBook/XWingSeries''. Though lucky shots will probably take a few out, the only really effective way to keep {{Space Fighter}}s from battering capital ships to death is [[OldSchoolDogfight other space fighters]].
15th Apr '17 7:35:28 PM kikiandlala
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* Averted in ''VideoGame/NavalOps''. If you mount enough of the advanced point-defense guns, the CIWs and later Pulse Lasers, your ship can fill the air with a barrage of bullets and lasers that will completely pulp any missiles and aircraft coming to attack you. Don't be surprised if your ship goes up against hundreds of bombers and a storm of enemy missiles and comes out unscathed.

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* Averted in ''VideoGame/NavalOps''. If you mount enough of the advanced point-defense guns, the CIWs CIWS and later Pulse Lasers, your ship can fill the air with a barrage of bullets and lasers that will completely pulp any missiles and aircraft coming to attack you. Don't be surprised if your ship goes up against hundreds of bombers and a storm of enemy missiles and comes out unscathed.
15th Apr '17 7:34:10 PM kikiandlala
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* Averted in ''TabletopGame/DropzoneCommander'', all the races including the least advanced one have a defensive system called the Missile Halo. It's a collection of satellite and ground-based lasers that targets incoming missiles. The Missile Halo is so effective that missiles are only deployed at short range and even artillery shells have a good chance of getting shot down, this led to all races having to develop at least one type of energy weapon to bypass it.


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* Averted in ''VideoGame/NavalOps''. If you mount enough of the advanced point-defense guns, the CIWs and later Pulse Lasers, your ship can fill the air with a barrage of bullets and lasers that will completely pulp any missiles and aircraft coming to attack you. Don't be surprised if your ship goes up against hundreds of bombers and a storm of enemy missiles and comes out unscathed.
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