History Main / PointDefenseless

29th Apr '18 8:41:00 AM costanton11
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** In the ''[[StarTrekDeepSpaceNine DS9]]'' episode "Valiant", Red Squad's plan to destroy a massive Dominion warship involves them flying up to it real close and hitting its weak point with a special torpedo. They fly in, fire the torpedo, and the Dominion warship [[spoiler: [[SubvertedTrope is completely unaffected]], its weak point being better defended than what Red Squad had assumed. Things go [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown downhill]] from there...]]

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** In the ''[[StarTrekDeepSpaceNine ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine DS9]]'' episode "Valiant", Red Squad's plan to destroy a massive Dominion warship involves them flying up to it real close and hitting its weak point with a special torpedo. They fly in, fire the torpedo, and the Dominion warship [[spoiler: [[SubvertedTrope is completely unaffected]], its weak point being better defended than what Red Squad had assumed. Things go [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown downhill]] from there...]]
12th Apr '18 3:54:19 AM GuyIncog
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** Zig-zagged with the ''Lancer''-class frigate in ''Rogue Squadron'', the first book of the X-Wing Series. ''Lancer''-class frigates are stated to be designed specifically as anti-starfighter ships, and even [[AcePilot Wedge Antilles]] himself gets a knot in his stomach when one ambushes his squadron. However, said frigate fails to shoot down the lone X-Wing that gets within gun range, and its defenses are soon overwhelmed by a slight variation of a MacrossMissileMassacre.


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** In ''VideoGame/XWingAlliance'', the danger to the player's fighter from a given capital ship seems to be inversely proportional to its size - corvettes, gunships, and ''Lancer''-class frigates (see the ComicBook/XWingSeries entry above) are particularly deadly, while the player can make endless attack runs on a Super Star Destroyer without fear of being blasted by its guns. Ship defenses are perfectly capable of defeating the player's missiles and torpedoes however... unless they take the simple expedient of firing them as unguided rockets, in which case they will be completely ignored.[[note]]This tactic is even mentioned in the tutorial level.[[/note]]
31st Jan '18 1:38:14 PM Elitegamer010
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** Played straight in Film/TheLastJedi , when a First Order Dreadnought Star Destroyer's turrets fail to hit [[AcePilot Poe Dameron's]] X-wing, who proceeds the destroy the turrets.
17th Jan '18 7:04:21 AM ChronoLegion
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*** For reference, "supercavitation" refers to creating air bubbles around the torpedo in order to reduce the water drag, thus allowing the torpedo to accelerate much faster than a normal torpedo. There are plans to use the same technology for manned submersible craft as well as for surface transport ships in order to reduce fuel costs.
17th Jan '18 6:34:50 AM ChronoLegion
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** The best way to deal with missiles seems to be is to use a dedicated Wild Weasel destroyer, which attracts most of the enemy missiles toward it while sending the rest back at the enemy (and the enemy won't try to destroy them, as they don't classify as "foe"). Of course, if you want your Wild Weasel to survive the battle (or even the first volley), you better keep a few dedicated PD ships nearby to swat all the missiles before they hit.

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** The best way to deal with missiles seems to be is to use a dedicated Wild Weasel destroyer, which attracts most of the enemy missiles toward it while sending the rest back at the enemy (and the enemy won't try to destroy them, as they don't classify as "foe"). Of course, if you want your Wild Weasel to survive the battle (or even the first volley), you better keep a few dedicated PD ships nearby to swat all the missiles before they hit. ''Argos Naval Yard'' adds the Electronic Warfare command section, which includes the Wild Weasel function. Since this is a dreadnought section, it can take a ''lot'' of punishment and can also be equipped with lots of PD weapons.
17th Jan '18 6:28:03 AM ChronoLegion
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* Zig-zagged in ''Series/{{Andromeda}}'', the titular ship has both Point-Defense Lasers and remote drones but enemy missiles still manage to hit it often.

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* Zig-zagged in ''Series/{{Andromeda}}'', the titular ship has both Point-Defense Lasers and remote drones but enemy missiles still manage to hit it often. A big reason for this is that a ''Glorious Heritage''-class cruiser like the ''Andromeda Ascendant'' is supposed to have a crew complement of 4132, with the crew operating most of the [=PDLs=] and flying the slipfighters. With a crew of less than a dozen, the ''Andromeda'' herself is forced to handle most of the work with predictable results.
17th Jan '18 6:24:50 AM ChronoLegion
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* Averted in ''Literature/AxisOfTime'', where "uptime" ships are equipped with two types of CIWS: laser pods and Metal Storm turrets (Metal Storm Limited is a RealLife weapons company, by the way). The systems are good enough to intercept regular shells in addition to missiles. In fact, their initial use against the "temp" Pacific Fleet makes the "temps" initially assume a SomeKindOfForcefield situation, with the shells exploding the moment they leave the barrel. However, since the purpose of those CIWS is to intercept occasional missiles, they simply don't have enough ammo to be able to handle the sustained levels of shelling a WW2 ship can put out. By the third novel, the Metal Storm ammo is exhausted, as is whatever they use to keep the lasers working, so they have to go back to the less effective Vulcan autocannons.
17th Jan '18 6:17:39 AM ChronoLegion
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* In Literature/HarryTurtledove's ''Literature/{{Worldwar}}'' books, [[LizardFolk the Race]] uses anti-missile missiles to shoot down UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo-era human missiles. However, human missiles get better and better as the war rages on, and the Race is incapable of manufacturing more missiles. These AM missiles generally have a good track record, with the notable exception of the Dora railway gun, which managed to fire two shots and blow up two Race starships. The large Dora rounds are misidentified by a Race radar technician as missiles, who engages standard anti-missile defenses. However, [[NoSell the rounds' thick shells prevent them from being shot down by the AM missiles]]. Then again, there's nothing that the lizards could've done at this point, as their starships are merely interstellar troop transports with no armor or armaments of their own.

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* In Literature/HarryTurtledove's ''Literature/{{Worldwar}}'' books, [[LizardFolk the Race]] uses anti-missile missiles to shoot down UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo-era human missiles. However, human missiles get better and better as the war rages on, and the Race is incapable of manufacturing more missiles. These AM missiles generally have a good track record, with the notable exception of the Dora railway gun, which managed to fire two shots and blow up two Race starships. The large Dora rounds are misidentified by a Race radar technician as missiles, who engages standard anti-missile defenses. However, [[NoSell the rounds' thick shells prevent them from being shot down by the AM missiles]]. Then again, there's nothing that the lizards could've done at this point, as their starships are merely interstellar troop transports with no armor or armaments of their own. By the ''Colonization'' series, though, the Race adds a secondary autocannon layer of defenses to their spacecraft, just in case their AM missiles fail to take out enemy nukes.
17th Jan '18 4:29:06 AM Dingbot
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** In the ''[[StarTrekDeepSpaceNine DS9]]'' episode "Valiant", Red Squad's plan to destroy a massive Dominion warship involves them flying up to it real close and hitting it's weak point with a special torpedo. They fly in, fire the torpedo, and the Dominion warship [[spoiler: [[SubvertedTrope is completely unaffected]], it's weak point being better defended than what Red Squad had assumed. Things go [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown downhill]] from there...]]

to:

** In the ''[[StarTrekDeepSpaceNine DS9]]'' episode "Valiant", Red Squad's plan to destroy a massive Dominion warship involves them flying up to it real close and hitting it's its weak point with a special torpedo. They fly in, fire the torpedo, and the Dominion warship [[spoiler: [[SubvertedTrope is completely unaffected]], it's its weak point being better defended than what Red Squad had assumed. Things go [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown downhill]] from there...]]
17th Jan '18 4:19:18 AM Dingbot
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** Because they were originally designed to engage planes, Patriot missiles tended to detonate too slowly when fired at SCUD missiles (which travel much ''faster'' than manned aircraft), resulting in actual performance falling short of test results until a later software update. In fact, Coalition propaganda aside, the Patriot missiles were proving so useless in stopping the [=SCUDs=] from hitting Israeli targets that Israel was preparing its own military retaliation over the pleas of the US Government to hold back, and managed to stay out of the fighting only because Saddam Hussein admitted defeat and pulled out of Kuwait before they were ready.
** Another big problem the Patriots had wasn't that they were failing to hit the [=SCUDs=]. Not only did the Patriot's warheads detonate too slowly, they were also indiscriminate about what part of the SCUD they hit - as mentioned they were designed to hit planes where [[FragileSpeedster the point is largely moot]]. Many [=SCUDs=] ''were'' hit by Patriots, but only the rocket was destroyed. The SCUD's warhead remained intact, and would then fall to Earth. If that plummeting warhead happened to land on a populated area, it may as well have not been intercepted at all. Later updates to the system designed specifically to intercept ballistic missiles were made to ensure that the interceptor exploded ahead of the missile it was intercepting, thus maximizing the odds of destroying the warhead.

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** Because they were originally designed to engage planes, Patriot missiles tended to detonate too slowly when late--after the point where the blast would destroy its target--when fired at SCUD missiles (which travel much ''faster'' than manned aircraft), resulting in actual performance falling short of test results until a later software update. In fact, Coalition propaganda aside, the Patriot missiles were proving so useless in stopping the [=SCUDs=] from hitting Israeli targets that Israel was preparing its own military retaliation over the pleas of the US Government to hold back, and managed to stay out of the fighting only because Saddam Hussein admitted defeat and pulled out of Kuwait before they were ready.
** Another big problem the Patriots had wasn't that they were failing to hit the [=SCUDs=]. Not only did the Patriot's warheads detonate too slowly, late, they were also indiscriminate about what part of the SCUD they hit - as mentioned they were designed to hit planes where [[FragileSpeedster the point is largely moot]]. Many [=SCUDs=] ''were'' hit by Patriots, but only the rocket was destroyed. The SCUD's warhead remained intact, and would then fall to Earth. If that plummeting warhead happened to land on a populated area, it may as well have not been intercepted at all. Later updates to the system designed specifically to intercept ballistic missiles were made to ensure that the interceptor exploded ahead of the missile it was intercepting, thus maximizing the odds of destroying the warhead.
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