History Main / OriginalPositionFallacy

13th Nov '17 8:56:38 AM thatother1dude
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* Robertson Davies once wrote a short story (collected in the anthology ''Literature/HighSpirits'') in which a group of Toronto academics, after being bored to tears at listening a newly minted literature graduate student gush about how cool it would be to go live in the past, preceded to summon the minds of their ancestors to inhabit their present bodies. And it turns out none of them had a particularly interesting past.

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* Robertson Davies once wrote a short story (collected in the anthology ''Literature/HighSpirits'') in which a group of Toronto academics, after being bored to tears at listening to a newly minted literature graduate student gush about how cool it would be to go live in the past, preceded to summon the minds of their ancestors to inhabit their present bodies. And it turns out none of them had a particularly interesting past.
2nd Oct '17 3:38:41 PM Theriocephalus
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** While not as prevalent, the fallacy is also reflected in ''VideoGame/BioshockInfinite'' regarding Comstock's flying paradise for the American People. Fink realized that none of the white, wealthy, religious patrons who'd flock to Comstock's city as "God's Kingdom" would be eager to do manual labor or menial tasks to maintain the 'heavenly' city, so he brought in 'Cherubs for every chore', i.e. a massive foreign labor force that would eventually revolt and become the Vox Populi. Needless to say, this didn't end well for anybody.

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** While not as prevalent, the fallacy is also reflected in ''VideoGame/BioshockInfinite'' regarding Comstock's flying paradise for the American People. Fink realized that none of the white, wealthy, religious patrons who'd flock to Comstock's city as "God's Kingdom" would be eager to do manual labor or menial tasks to maintain the 'heavenly' city, so he brought in 'Cherubs "Cherubs for every chore', chore", i.e. a massive foreign labor force that would eventually revolt and become the Vox Populi. Needless to say, this didn't end well for anybody.
29th Sep '17 11:50:53 AM Theriocephalus
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* In one of the books of ''Literature/GuardiansOfGaHoole'', the main character Nyroc is born to [[EvilMatriarch Nyra]], head of the "Pure Ones", an organization of owls made up of the family tytonidae (Barn Owls) whose goal was to eliminate the Guardians of Ga'hoole and [[ANaziByAnyOtherName purify the owl kingdoms]]. One of Nyroc's friends was Phillip, a subspecies of Tytonidae called Greater Sooty Owls. When he and his father were starving, they decided to join the organization as new recruits in hopes of a better life. Unfortunately, as Phillip discovers, not only are the Pure Ones racist towards other owls but discriminate among their own kind based on feather color, with the white Tyto albas at the top of the hierarchy. Phillip (or Dustytuft as the other owls called him) ended up on the lower ranks of the social ladder, just above Lesser Sooty Owls, forced to do the most menial and worst of jobs.

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* In one of the books of ''Literature/GuardiansOfGaHoole'', the main character Nyroc is born to [[EvilMatriarch Nyra]], head of the "Pure Ones", an organization of owls made up of the family tytonidae (Barn Owls) whose goal was to eliminate the Guardians of Ga'hoole and [[ANaziByAnyOtherName purify the owl kingdoms]]. One of Nyroc's friends was Phillip, a subspecies of Tytonidae called Greater Sooty Owls. When he and his father were starving, they decided to join the organization as new recruits in hopes of a better life. Unfortunately, as Phillip discovers, not only are the Pure Ones racist towards other owls but discriminate among their own kind based on feather color, with the white Tyto albas ''Tyto albas'' at the top of the hierarchy. Phillip (or Dustytuft as the other owls called him) ended up on the lower ranks of the social ladder, just above Lesser Sooty Owls, forced to do the most menial and worst of jobs.
29th Sep '17 11:44:18 AM Theriocephalus
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->'''Creator/IsaacAsimov:''' It would be horrible... We'd be the servants.
-->-- ''Conversation said to have taken place at some social function''

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->'''Creator/IsaacAsimov:''' It would be horrible... We'd we'd be the servants.
-->-- ''Conversation said to have taken place at some social function''
function.''



** [[ZigZaggingTrope Zigzagged]] in the third novel, as Sarah seems to be falling in the same trap as her predecessors. [[spoiler:She's actually setting herself up for permanent enslavement, although her plan is to belong to the woman she loves... Who then gives her the basic "thanks but no thanks" and auctions her off to a random aristocrat... a young lady who grows to become the true love of her life.]]

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** [[ZigZaggingTrope Zigzagged]] in the third novel, as Sarah seems to be falling in the same trap as her predecessors. [[spoiler:She's actually setting herself up for permanent enslavement, although her plan is to belong to the woman she loves... Who who then gives her the basic "thanks but no thanks" and auctions her off to a random aristocrat... a young lady who grows to become the true love of her life.]]



** It's mentioned in ''Fiendish Codex II'' that this is why Lawful Evil characters often make deals with devils - they expect to swiftly take positions of power and prestige in the diabolic hierarchy after their deaths. "No tyrant looks upon a wretched [[CannonFodder lemure]] and thinks that this will be their afterlife."

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** It's mentioned in ''Fiendish Codex II'' that this is why Lawful Evil characters often make deals with devils - -- they expect to swiftly take positions of power and prestige in the diabolic hierarchy after their deaths. "No tyrant looks upon a wretched [[CannonFodder lemure]] and thinks that this will be their afterlife."
23rd Sep '17 7:10:19 AM Josef5678
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A character whose thinking falls into the Original Position Fallacy may start out as a HellSeeker, end up as a BoomerangBigot or both. If someone pulled the gambit version on him, it was probably a MagnificentBastard skilled in GambitSpeedChess. May also result in a KarmicTransformation; sometimes forms the 'twist' of a KarmicTwistEnding. Contrast WhoWillBellTheCat, where attempts to make a change that would benefit most at the cost of a few are stalled by the fact that no one wants to be "the few."

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A character whose thinking falls into the Original Position Fallacy may start out as a HellSeeker, end up as a BoomerangBigot BoomerangBigot, DirtyCoward, or both.any combination thereof. If someone pulled the gambit version on him, it was probably a MagnificentBastard skilled in GambitSpeedChess. May also result in a KarmicTransformation; sometimes forms the 'twist' of a KarmicTwistEnding. Contrast WhoWillBellTheCat, where attempts to make a change that would benefit most at the cost of a few are stalled by the fact that no one wants to be "the few."
22nd Sep '17 12:51:24 PM ionicgash
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* Many anonymous {{Troll}}s defend their offensive behavior online by claiming they're entitled to free speech. They're quick to react in horror when other people find out who they really are and exercise ''their'' right to free speech to expose them to the public.

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* Many anonymous {{Troll}}s defend their offensive behavior online (not to be confused with voicing unpopular but valid opinions) by claiming they're entitled to free speech. They're quick to react in horror when other people find out who they really are and exercise ''their'' right to free speech to expose them to the public.
20th Sep '17 5:32:09 AM Owlorange1995
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20th Sep '17 5:32:08 AM Owlorange1995
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Added DiffLines:

* Many anonymous {{Troll}}s defend their offensive behavior online by claiming they're entitled to free speech. They're quick to react in horror when other people find out who they really are and exercise ''their'' right to free speech to expose them to the public.
11th Sep '17 5:30:48 PM Jhonny
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* Many people support expelling immigrants in their home countries, assuming that they will get the leftover jobs. Unfortunately, not all companies are under pressure to hire natives, and many can quite easily outsource work to other countries or replace their lost workers with machinery.

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* Many people support expelling immigrants in their home countries, assuming that they will get the leftover jobs. Unfortunately, not all companies are under pressure to hire natives, and many can quite easily outsource work to other countries or replace their lost workers with machinery. Not to mention that a lot of immigrants a) do jobs few people would want to do or b) are business owners and employ others, arguably ''increasing'' the total number of jobs.
11th Sep '17 4:40:51 AM Owlorange1995
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Added DiffLines:

* Many people support expelling immigrants in their home countries, assuming that they will get the leftover jobs. Unfortunately, not all companies are under pressure to hire natives, and many can quite easily outsource work to other countries or replace their lost workers with machinery.
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