History Main / OriginalPositionFallacy

15th Feb '17 5:29:03 AM Josef5678
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* ''ComicBook/JudgeDredd'': The wordwide nuclear war behind most of the setting's problems was started by the American president, certain as he was that the US' radiation shields would prevent fallout from affecting them. He was disbelievingly disabused of this notion ''after'' the nukes started flying.

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* ''ComicBook/JudgeDredd'': The wordwide worldwide nuclear war behind most of the setting's problems was started by the American president, certain as he was that the US' US's radiation shields would prevent fallout from affecting them. He was disbelievingly disabused of this notion ''after'' the nukes started flying.



** 40K: The fall of the Eldar was brought about by the psychic SpaceElves' continuous hedonism creating a new Chaos god/dess in the Warp. Some pleasure cults actually did their best to accelerate this process, believing they'd be rewarded with an eternity of new sensations. The Dark Eldar, are now an entire race of KlingonPromotion-enforcing CombatSadomasochists who need to hide in the Webway lest Slaanesh (the hermaphroditic embodiment of excess known as She Who thirsts) devour their souls, and can emerge into realspace only long enough to conduct quick raids for slaves.

to:

** 40K: The fall of the Eldar was brought about by the psychic SpaceElves' continuous hedonism creating a new Chaos god/dess in the Warp. Some pleasure cults actually did their best to accelerate this process, believing they'd be rewarded with an eternity of new sensations. The Dark Eldar, are now an entire race of KlingonPromotion-enforcing CombatSadomasochists {{combat sadomasochist}}s who need to hide in the Webway lest Slaanesh (the hermaphroditic embodiment of excess known as She Who thirsts) devour their souls, and can emerge into realspace only long enough to conduct quick raids for slaves.



* ''VideoGame/DragonQuestVI'': One optional area in the dreamworld is a GroundshogDayLoop of a king who decided to deal with the threat of the Archfiend by [[SummonBiggerFish summoning an even bigger demon to kill it.]] The idea that they wouldn't remain in control past the first five seconds of the ritual didn't occur to them at all. [[spoiler:If you actually fight and defeat this demon quickly enough, it turns out the plan wasn't as stupid as it seems: the demon cheerfully destroys the BigBad in a humiliating CurbStompBattle without taking any damage.]]

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* ''VideoGame/DragonQuestVI'': One optional area in the dreamworld is a GroundshogDayLoop GroundhogDayLoop of a king who decided to deal with the threat of the Archfiend by [[SummonBiggerFish summoning an even bigger demon to kill it.]] The idea that they wouldn't remain in control past the first five seconds of the ritual didn't occur to them at all. [[spoiler:If you actually fight and defeat this demon quickly enough, it turns out the plan wasn't as stupid as it seems: the demon cheerfully destroys the BigBad in a humiliating CurbStompBattle without taking any damage.]]
15th Feb '17 4:16:57 AM Chabal2
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* ''ComicBook/JudgeDredd'': The wordwide nuclear war behind most of the setting's problems was started by the American president, certain as he was that the US' radiation shields would prevent fallout from affecting them. He was disbelievingly disabused of this notion ''after'' the nukes started flying.



%%** ''Literature/TheGooseGirl'' in Grimms' fairy tales.

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%%** ** ''Literature/TheGooseGirl'' in Grimms' fairy tales.tales ends this way, involving being dragged up and down the street in a barrel filled with nails.


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* ''Literature/HarryPotter'':
** Many people who joined the Death Eaters were merely in it ForTheEvulz, or the chance to get ahead in wizarding society, or because Voldemort's victory seemed certain (and many were half-bloods masqueradin as pureblood). Some found out that his evil was far beyond the bullying and Muggle-baiting they were used to, some tried to claim they'd been mind-controlled the entire time and others still found themselves too deeply compromised to do anything but keep serving him.
** The goblins welcomed Voldemort's upheaval of the wizarding world at first, thinking it the end of wizardkind's casual contempt on nonhuman magic beings. Instead, they seemed to have been reduced to menial work (quoth Griphook, who escaped: "I am no house-elf.") You'd think going with an organization that prides itself on purity of wizarding lineage would have set off more warning bells.


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* ''VideoGame/DragonQuestVI'': One optional area in the dreamworld is a GroundshogDayLoop of a king who decided to deal with the threat of the Archfiend by [[SummonBiggerFish summoning an even bigger demon to kill it.]] The idea that they wouldn't remain in control past the first five seconds of the ritual didn't occur to them at all. [[spoiler:If you actually fight and defeat this demon quickly enough, it turns out the plan wasn't as stupid as it seems: the demon cheerfully destroys the BigBad in a humiliating CurbStompBattle without taking any damage.]]
15th Feb '17 3:53:40 AM Chabal2
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* One ''Literature/JudgeDee'' story has the judge attend a play, in which two brothers are complaining about their inheritance, each claiming they got shafted. The judge of the play tells the brothers to exchange lists.



* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' and ''[[TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}} Warhammer Fantasy Battles]]'': Many people who join Chaos cults do so in the hopes of attracting their chosen god's favor. Unfortunately for them, said gods are just as likely to ignore them, give them what they want or subject them to horrible (or benign) mutations.

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* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' and ''[[TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}} Warhammer Fantasy Battles]]'': Battles]]'':
**
Many people who join Chaos cults do so in the hopes of attracting their chosen god's favor. Unfortunately for them, said gods are just as likely to ignore them, give them what they want or subject them to horrible (or (and/or benign) mutations.mutations.
** 40K: The fall of the Eldar was brought about by the psychic SpaceElves' continuous hedonism creating a new Chaos god/dess in the Warp. Some pleasure cults actually did their best to accelerate this process, believing they'd be rewarded with an eternity of new sensations. The Dark Eldar, are now an entire race of KlingonPromotion-enforcing CombatSadomasochists who need to hide in the Webway lest Slaanesh (the hermaphroditic embodiment of excess known as She Who thirsts) devour their souls, and can emerge into realspace only long enough to conduct quick raids for slaves.
2nd Feb '17 11:26:18 AM mzytryck01
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** Invoked in [[VideoGame/{{BioShock1}} the first game]] in one of the {{Apocalyptic Log}}s; the speaker says that when intelligent, hard-working and powerful individuals from the surface are invited to come to Rapture and help build a world of pure capitalistic freedom, they accept because they think they'll be captains of industry like they would be on the surface. They then find out that "someone needs to clean the toilets". It seems that nobody, not even [[OurFounder Andrew]] [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope Ryan]] fully realised that if you have an entire city comprised entirely of the human race's elite, those who could be great leaders when surrounded by normal people to do the menial work won't be special any more when everyone is just as clever and driven as they are. Apparently, this unwelcome discovery contributed heavily to the people's rapid disillusionment with Rapture, and Ryan realising that there were people who could compete with him as equals helped spur an already self-centred narcissist past the MoralEventHorizon to stay on top.

to:

** Invoked in [[VideoGame/{{BioShock1}} the first game]] in one of the {{Apocalyptic Log}}s; the speaker says that when intelligent, hard-working and powerful individuals from the surface are invited to come to Rapture and help build a world of pure capitalistic freedom, they accept because they think they'll be captains of industry like they would be on the surface. They then find out that that, even in a capitalist heaven, "someone needs to clean the toilets". It seems that nobody, not even [[OurFounder Andrew]] [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope Ryan]] fully realised that if you have an entire city comprised entirely solely of the human race's elite, those who could be great leaders when surrounded by normal people to do the menial work won't be special any more when everyone is just as clever and driven as they are. Apparently, this unwelcome discovery contributed heavily to the people's rapid disillusionment with Rapture, and Ryan realising that there were people who could compete with him as equals helped spur an already self-centred narcissist past the MoralEventHorizon to stay on top.
1st Feb '17 10:01:27 PM Firestorm17
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* In the ''Literature/ThursdayNext'' novel ''One of Our Thursdays Is Missing'', Thursday is trapped in the Oral Tradition aboard the ship ''Ethical Dilemma'', which is the setting of an ethics lecture about the morality of killing or torturing one person to save a larger group. Thursday chooses to give the lecturer an aneurysm in order to save the ship.
25th Nov '16 6:16:30 AM Chabal2
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* ''{{Literature/Discworld}}'': Inverted for (pre-Ridcully) wizards and Assassins, who view their respective hierarchies as stifling and extremely unfair, but are very happy with it once they become high rankers themselves. Those who ''don't'' achieve high ranks... [[KlingonPromotion let's just say their complaints are unlikely to matter.]]
12th Nov '16 8:02:25 PM SpacemanSpoof
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* In an episode of ''Series/SavedByTheBell'', Zach winds up learning a lesson this way. He's allowed to choose the teams for an athletic competition, so he puts all the jock-types on one team, assuming he'll be the captain of that team, and all the nerd-types on the other. The teacher then appoints him as the captain of the nerd team, saying something to the effect of "Yes, I let you pick the teams, but I pick the captains."
22nd Oct '16 10:16:25 PM Xtifr
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* In a short story by RobertSheckley, in an anthology compiled by Creator/IsaacAsimov, a young man, obsessed with sex, finds a magical text that will allow him to assume the job of feeding griffins, aware that griffins' favorite food is young virgins (thinking he might have some fun with offering a girl the obvious way out). It turns out that the young man is actually a virgin, and that he is not serving food for the griffin, he ''is'' the food.

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* In a short story by RobertSheckley, Creator/RobertSheckley, in an anthology compiled by Creator/IsaacAsimov, a young man, obsessed with sex, finds a magical text that will allow him to assume the job of feeding griffins, aware that griffins' favorite food is young virgins (thinking he might have some fun with offering a girl the obvious way out). It turns out that the young man is actually a virgin, and that he is not serving food for the griffin, he ''is'' the food.
24th Sep '16 10:50:46 AM Josef5678
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** ''Literature/TheGooseGirl'' in Grimms' fairy tales.
** Giambattista Basile 's ''[[http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/pentamerone/2myrtle1911.html The Myrtle]]''.

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** %%** ''Literature/TheGooseGirl'' in Grimms' fairy tales.
** %%** Giambattista Basile 's ''[[http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/pentamerone/2myrtle1911.html The Myrtle]]''.
24th Sep '16 10:50:12 AM Josef5678
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** Both of them are SociopathicHero who take on positions of StrawNihilist and TheAntinihilist respectively. They keep telling people that SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids, that they alone know "the truth" about the absurdity and harshness of the world. Then they come face to face with someone who internalizes their sayings and decides to do something about it, and their facade of cynicism totally cracks.

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** Both of them are SociopathicHero {{Sociopathic Hero}}es who take on positions of StrawNihilist and TheAntinihilist respectively. They keep telling people that SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids, that they alone know "the truth" about the absurdity and harshness of the world. Then they come face to face with someone who internalizes their sayings and decides to do something about it, and their facade of cynicism totally cracks.



* In Series/DoctorWho Day of the Doctor: The Doctor [[spoiler: three of them actually, the War Doctor, Ten and Eleven to be exact]] activate a memory-erasure device on the heads of UNIT and the shape-shifting Zygons to negotiate a peace treaty to make everyone forget who's a human and who's an alien, forcing them to consider this trope's effects, [[spoiler: since the head of UNIT activated a bomb that would set off a nuclear warhead, resulting in the destruction of them and the Zygons, along with the collection of dangerous alien artifacts and all of London.]]

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* In Series/DoctorWho Day the ''Series/DoctorWho'' eipsode "Day of the Doctor: Doctor": The Doctor [[spoiler: three (three of them actually, the War Doctor, Ten and Eleven to be exact]] exact)]] activate a memory-erasure device on the heads of UNIT and the shape-shifting Zygons to negotiate a peace treaty to make everyone forget who's a human and who's an alien, forcing them to consider this trope's effects, [[spoiler: since the head of UNIT activated a bomb that would set off a nuclear warhead, resulting in the destruction of them and the Zygons, along with the collection of dangerous alien artifacts and all of London.]]



* Invoked in ''VideoGame/{{BioShock|1}}'' in one of the {{Apocalyptic Log}}s; the speaker says that when intelligent, hard-working and powerful individuals from the surface are invited to come to Rapture and help build a world of pure capitalistic freedom, they accept because they think they'll be captains of industry like they would be on the surface. They then find out that "someone needs to clean the toilets". It seems that nobody, not even [[OurFounder Andrew]] [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope Ryan]] fully realised that if you have an entire city comprised entirely of the human race's elite, those who could be great leaders when surrounded by normal people to do the menial work won't be special any more when everyone is just as clever and driven as they are. Apparently, this unwelcome discovery contributed heavily to the people's rapid disillusionment with Rapture, and Ryan realising that there were people who could compete with him as equals helped spur an already self-centred narcissist past the MoralEventHorizon to stay on top.
** This is also discussed in the second game where you find out the backstory of the railroad that connects the various parts of the city. Ryan and his supporters invested heavily in the railroad but it was quickly upstaged by the invention of the bathysphere and the railroad went bankrupt. Ryan's followers never considered that their own investments could go sour and were confronted by the fact that they were about to find themselves broke and on the bottom of the economic and social system of Rapture. Faced with losing his powerbase, Ryan forced a bank bailout for the railroad which saved the investors' fortunes but destroyed the savings of everyone else. Rapture's economy went into a downward spiral and which resulted in the civil war that wrecked the city.

to:

* ''VideoGame/{{Bioshock}}'':
**
Invoked in ''VideoGame/{{BioShock|1}}'' [[VideoGame/{{BioShock1}} the first game]] in one of the {{Apocalyptic Log}}s; the speaker says that when intelligent, hard-working and powerful individuals from the surface are invited to come to Rapture and help build a world of pure capitalistic freedom, they accept because they think they'll be captains of industry like they would be on the surface. They then find out that "someone needs to clean the toilets". It seems that nobody, not even [[OurFounder Andrew]] [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope Ryan]] fully realised that if you have an entire city comprised entirely of the human race's elite, those who could be great leaders when surrounded by normal people to do the menial work won't be special any more when everyone is just as clever and driven as they are. Apparently, this unwelcome discovery contributed heavily to the people's rapid disillusionment with Rapture, and Ryan realising that there were people who could compete with him as equals helped spur an already self-centred narcissist past the MoralEventHorizon to stay on top.
** This is also discussed in [[VideoGame/{{Bioshock2}} the second game game]] where you find out the backstory of the railroad that connects the various parts of the city. Ryan and his supporters invested heavily in the railroad but it was quickly upstaged by the invention of the bathysphere and the railroad went bankrupt. Ryan's followers never considered that their own investments could go sour and were confronted by the fact that they were about to find themselves broke and on the bottom of the economic and social system of Rapture. Faced with losing his powerbase, Ryan forced a bank bailout for the railroad which saved the investors' fortunes but destroyed the savings of everyone else. Rapture's economy went into a downward spiral and which resulted in the civil war that wrecked the city.
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