History Main / OrderVersusChaos

25th May '16 7:47:17 AM TheAmazingBlachman
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** According to J.R.R.'s notes and letters relating to ''Literature/TheSilmarillion,'' Sauron followed the chaotic Morgoth, paradoxically, out of desire for order.

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** According to J.R.R.'s notes and letters relating to ''Literature/TheSilmarillion,'' Sauron followed the chaotic Morgoth, paradoxically, out of desire for order. Wanting to impose order on upon everyone and everything, Sauron came to see tyranny as the easiest way to do so.
19th May '16 6:15:01 AM Morgenthaler
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* Nonfiction example: Hobbes's ''Leviathan'' is very pro-Order, characterizing totalitarianism as the only alternative to "the war of all against all".

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* Nonfiction example: Thomas Hobbes's ''Leviathan'' is very pro-Order, characterizing totalitarianism as the only alternative to "the war of all against all".



* ''PerdidoStreetStation'' has the Construct Council, [[AIIsACrapshoot a giant sentient colony of robots]], avatar of Order and the superego, and the Weaver, described as "the dancing mad god", an [[AnthropomorphicPersonification Arachnomorphic Personification]] of dream, creativity, and the subconscious.

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* ''PerdidoStreetStation'' ''Literature/PerdidoStreetStation'' has the Construct Council, [[AIIsACrapshoot a giant sentient colony of robots]], avatar of Order and the superego, and the Weaver, described as "the dancing mad god", an [[AnthropomorphicPersonification Arachnomorphic Personification]] of dream, creativity, and the subconscious.



* In Creator/GordonRDickson's ''TheDragonKnight'' series of books the forces of evil are constantly trying to upset the balance between "History" and "Chance."

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* In Creator/GordonRDickson's ''TheDragonKnight'' ''Literature/TheDragonKnight'' series of books the forces of evil are constantly trying to upset the balance between "History" and "Chance."



* In ''TheBartimaeusTrilogy'', there is GreyAndGrayMorality. As such, the most prevalent conflict is between the magicians' order and the [[InsistentTerminology spirits]]' chaos.
* The ''{{Mistborn}}'' trilogy has the gods Ruin (chaos) and Preservation (order).

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* In ''TheBartimaeusTrilogy'', ''Literature/TheBartimaeusTrilogy'', there is GreyAndGrayMorality. As such, the most prevalent conflict is between the magicians' order and the [[InsistentTerminology spirits]]' chaos.
* The ''{{Mistborn}}'' ''Literature/{{Mistborn}}'' trilogy has the gods Ruin (chaos) and Preservation (order).



* In ''TheQuantumThief'' the Sobornost mind upload collective claims to represent Order and seeks to wipe out all death and uncertainty from the world, and preaches that every thought is worth preserving, but their inner workings are far less orderly than they claim. Their prime opponent is the Zoku collective, who in turn embrace the quantum uncertainty principles, and declare that change is inevitable and positive; the Zokus' identities are fluid and they only define themselves through their interests, which they are free to change any time.

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* In ''TheQuantumThief'' ''Literature/TheQuantumThief'' the Sobornost mind upload collective claims to represent Order and seeks to wipe out all death and uncertainty from the world, and preaches that every thought is worth preserving, but their inner workings are far less orderly than they claim. Their prime opponent is the Zoku collective, who in turn embrace the quantum uncertainty principles, and declare that change is inevitable and positive; the Zokus' identities are fluid and they only define themselves through their interests, which they are free to change any time.
12th May '16 10:05:18 AM Morgenthaler
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* The trio of gods in ''VideoGame/{{Runescape}}'', Saradomin, Zamorak, and Guthix represent Order, Chaos and Balance, respectively. While there are few sympathetic Zamorakian [[NonPlayerCharacter NPCs]], and most heroes are Saradominists, the distinction isn't clear cut, as groups like [[FantasticRacism HAM]] and the [[KnightsTemplar White Knights]] can attest to. Armadyl, the only objectively "good" god, was dethroned for being a SuicidalPacifist, Guthix simply wants to preserve existence, though his followers often act StupidNeutral, and [[TheGhost Zaros]] is just power personified.

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* The trio of gods in ''VideoGame/{{Runescape}}'', Saradomin, Zamorak, and Guthix represent Order, Chaos and Balance, respectively. While there are few sympathetic Zamorakian [[NonPlayerCharacter NPCs]], and most heroes are Saradominists, the distinction isn't clear cut, as groups like [[FantasticRacism HAM]] and the [[KnightsTemplar [[KnightTemplar White Knights]] can attest to. Armadyl, the only objectively "good" god, was dethroned for being a SuicidalPacifist, Guthix simply wants to preserve existence, though his followers often act StupidNeutral, and [[TheGhost Zaros]] is just power personified.
11th May '16 10:34:29 PM karizake
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* The choices in ''VideoGame/PapersPlease'' side you with the government or the revolutionaries. It's up to interpretation on how good or evil either group is. [[TakeAThirdOption You can also decide to flee from both of them.]]
11th May '16 12:27:51 AM BigKlingy
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* ''Franchise/FireEmblem: [[VideoGame/FireEmblemTellius Radiant Dawn]]'' (and ''Path of Radiance'', the direct prequel) have Ashera, the Goddess of Order and [[spoiler:Yune]], Goddess of Chaos.

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* ''Franchise/FireEmblem: [[VideoGame/FireEmblemTellius Radiant Dawn]]'' (and ''Path of Radiance'', the direct prequel) have Ashera, the Goddess of Order and [[spoiler:Yune]], Goddess of Chaos. [[spoiler: In an interesting twist, the Goddess of Chaos is depicted as a young child. The two also used to be one being: the original Goddess Ashunera cast out her own emotions, which became Yune, after accidently flooding the world. The EmptyShell that was left behind became Ashera, and lacking emotions causes her to make some... [[KnightTemplar questionable decisions]].]]
2nd May '16 8:29:09 AM Goldfritha
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** Later, however, [[http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff2900/fc02804.htm Sam fears the forces of order he has unleashed on the world]] and [[http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff2900/fc02805.htm objects to the notion of appointments for chaos.]]
29th Apr '16 5:03:45 PM RaisenRhaasen
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* The virtue system in Seprents Isle is quite different from past games. Unlike the Britannia virtues, based on Infinity, Ophedian virtues are based on Order and Chaos. The Virtues of Order are Logic, Ethicality, and Discipline. The Virtues of Chaos are Emotion, Enthusiasm, and Tolerance.
** However, unlike the virtues of Britannia, Ophedian virtues are not good by themselves and must be practiced with its opposite counterpart to achieve balance, otherwise, wrongs are committed, called Banes. The Banes of Order are Ruthlessness (Logic without Emotion), Apathy (Discipline without Enthusiasm), and Prejudice (Ethicality without Tolerance). The Banes of Chaos are Insanity (Emotion without Logic), Wantonness (Enthusiasm without Discipline), and Anarchy (Tolerance without Ethicality). The Order and Chaos counterparts combined together form the Principles of Harmony (Tolerance and Ethicality), Dedication (Discipline and Enthusiasm), and Rationality (Logic and Emotion).

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* The virtue system in Seprents Isle ''[[VideoGame/UltimaVIIPartII Serpents Isle]]'' is quite different from past games. Unlike the Britannia virtues, based on Infinity, Ophedian Ophidian virtues are based on Order and Chaos. The Virtues of Order are Logic, Ethicality, and Discipline. The Virtues of Chaos are Emotion, Enthusiasm, and Tolerance.
** However, unlike the virtues of Britannia, Ophedian Ophidian virtues are not good by themselves and must be practiced with its opposite counterpart to achieve balance, otherwise, wrongs are committed, called Banes. The Banes of Order are Ruthlessness (Logic without Emotion), Apathy (Discipline without Enthusiasm), and Prejudice (Ethicality without Tolerance). The Banes of Chaos are Insanity (Emotion without Logic), Wantonness (Enthusiasm without Discipline), and Anarchy (Tolerance without Ethicality). The Order and Chaos counterparts combined together form the Principles of Harmony (Tolerance and Ethicality), Dedication (Discipline and Enthusiasm), and Rationality (Logic and Emotion).
29th Apr '16 4:57:45 PM RaisenRhaasen
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* [[spoiler: Grundy]] from {{Literature/A Fable of Tonight}} belives his mission is to ensure balance between Order and Chaos, with healthy dose of BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil, through TheMultiverse. [[spoiler: When he finds a world where either Order or Chaos gained too much of an advantage, he tries to balance it. But because he's a demon, his methods are both utterly evil - he brings terror to wacky, crazy world of magic and lets criminals from it into our, much more orderly, world, to spread disorder - and bound to upset the balance to much towards the other side. This is when the force Grundy calls the Adversary intervenies, creating a champion of good to trurly restore the balance between order and chaos.]]

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* [[spoiler: Grundy]] from {{Literature/A ''{{Literature/A Fable of Tonight}} Tonight}}'' belives his mission is to ensure balance between Order and Chaos, with healthy dose of BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil, through TheMultiverse. [[spoiler: When he finds a world where either Order or Chaos gained too much of an advantage, he tries to balance it. But because he's a demon, his methods are both utterly evil - he brings terror to wacky, crazy world of magic and lets criminals from it into our, much more orderly, world, to spread disorder - and bound to upset the balance to much towards the other side. This is when the force Grundy calls the Adversary intervenies, creating a champion of good to trurly restore the balance between order and chaos.]]
29th Apr '16 4:37:24 PM RaisenRhaasen
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** According to Discordianism, both Order and Disorder are illusions; there is only Chaos, which contains absolutely everything. They choose whether they want to approach matters in a chaotic or orderly fashion depending on which one they consider more creative and interesting for the moment; it's no coincidence that their ideal human is a RenaissanceMan; science and art are orderly concepts, but they are also creative.

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** According to Discordianism, UsefulNotes/{{Discordianism}}, both Order and Disorder are illusions; there is only Chaos, which contains absolutely everything. They choose whether they want to approach matters in a chaotic or orderly fashion depending on which one they consider more creative and interesting for the moment; it's no coincidence that their ideal human is a RenaissanceMan; science and art are orderly concepts, but they are also creative.
29th Apr '16 4:33:02 PM RaisenRhaasen
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** It's pointed out in the books: Chaos means that every possibility is allowed (symbolized by the eight-arrow symbol), but at the end, you'll just move back and forth and get to nowhere. Order (symbolized by a straight arrow) means that you have direction, but exclude some possibilities -- in the worst case, all of them. An world gone too far in Chaos is one where shape cannot be maintained and horrible things will try to eat you. A world gone too far in law will eventually become a featureless white plane. And although Order has a superficial appearance of being Good, and Chaos of being Evil; the true Good is, in fact, the Balance, with Evil being the extremes of either Order or Chaos.

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** It's pointed out in the books: Chaos means that every possibility is allowed (symbolized by the eight-arrow symbol), but at the end, you'll just move back and forth and get to nowhere. Order (symbolized by a straight arrow) means that you have direction, but exclude some possibilities -- in the worst case, all of them. An A world gone too far in Chaos is one where shape cannot be maintained and horrible things will try to eat you. A world gone too far in law will eventually become a featureless white plane. And although Order has a superficial appearance of being Good, and Chaos of being Evil; the true Good is, in fact, the Balance, with Evil being the extremes of either Order or Chaos.
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