History Main / OlderisBetter

6th Dec '17 10:02:03 AM DustSnitch
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Today, it's definitely not a JustifiedTrope in RealLife. Modern science has surpassed the philosophy of the ancients, meaning newly adopted technology has important advantages over older technologies. It does not have to be an improvement in all areas, but there is generally an overall improvement, which is why the technology could replace older versions. However, in pseudosciences like astrology and some alternative medicines (un-touched by the scientific method), the idea persists: these ancient knowledges and traditions have been around for so long, unchanged, so that must mean that they are better than modern science! It's the same logic as with the OldMaster: if a tool has lasted for centuries and is still usable, then it must be damn good. Compare with AppealToTradition, to which this is related. [[http://web.archive.org/web/20130727103912/http://www.badmartialarts.com/myths/ancient_knowledge.php Bad Martial Arts]] has a page debunking the idea.

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Today, it's definitely not a JustifiedTrope in RealLife. Modern science has surpassed the philosophy science of the ancients, meaning newly adopted technology has important advantages over older technologies. It does not have to be an improvement in all areas, but there is generally an overall improvement, which is why the technology could replace older versions. However, in pseudosciences like astrology and some alternative medicines (un-touched by the scientific method), the idea persists: these ancient knowledges and traditions have been around for so long, unchanged, so that must mean that they are better than modern science! It's the same logic as with the OldMaster: if a tool has lasted for centuries and is still usable, then it must be damn good. Compare with AppealToTradition, to which this is related. [[http://web.archive.org/web/20130727103912/http://www.badmartialarts.com/myths/ancient_knowledge.php Bad Martial Arts]] has a page debunking the idea.
19th Nov '17 7:19:42 AM Saber15
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* A major element in the ''TabletopGame/BattleTech'' and ''VideoGame/MechWarrior'' universe. Many of the equipment from the days of the Star League were well advanced for their time and were simply much better than the newer, watered-down equivalents of the much later eras to the point that any such equipment (Star League-era, of course) is highly coveted upon. Alas, with the Star League folded, the technology has been all but reduced to [[LostTechnology lost relics]] since most of the galaxy's technological and industrial bases ended up getting smashed in a lengthy series of civil wars, losing them the ability to produce their highly advanced technology. Thus, newer mechs tend to be less capable in combat when paired up against similar mechs that were built hundreds of years earlier. Of course, if you HAVE such an old (but powerful) mech, you try to make sure it gets the best of maintenance so it will continue to be the best.
** This was only true up to around 3040. Modern designs like the ''Hauptmann'' and ''Uriel'' are at least as good as their Star League counterparts, and the Clans, who were unaffected by the Succession Wars, field mechs that are ''vastly'' superior to equipment from ''any'' era in the Inner Sphere.

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* A major element in the ''TabletopGame/BattleTech'' and ''VideoGame/MechWarrior'' universe. Many of the equipment from the days of the Star League were well advanced for their time and were simply much better than the newer, watered-down equivalents of the much later eras to the point that any such equipment (Star League-era, of course) is highly coveted upon. Alas, with the Star League folded, the technology has been all but reduced to [[LostTechnology lost relics]] since most of the galaxy's technological and industrial bases ended up getting smashed in a lengthy series during [[ForeverWar 300 years of civil wars, war]], losing them the ability to produce their highly advanced technology. Thus, newer mechs tend to be less capable in combat when paired up against similar mechs that were built hundreds of years earlier. Of course, if you HAVE such an old (but powerful) mech, you try to make sure it gets the best of maintenance so it will continue to be the best.
** This [[ApocalypseNot However, over the decades]] lost technology was only true up recovered and relatively low-level warfare allowed the nations to around 3040. Modern designs rebuild; the late [=3030s=] or 3040 often considered a tipping point where new mechs like the ''Hauptmann'' and ''Uriel'' are at least as good as equal to their Star League counterparts, and predecessors, though it took over a decade for the revived tech to truly propagate. The Clans, who were unaffected by the Succession Wars, field mechs that are ''vastly'' superior to equipment from ''any'' era in the Inner Sphere.
18th Nov '17 9:27:30 PM Epicazeroth
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** The boost his opponents get from being more popular, as Rin explains, is actually pretty insignificant[[note]]That boost would be far more significant in the actual location where a Servant's legend originated. For example, Lancer (Cú Chulainn) would be at his strongest in Ireland, Rider (Medusa), Caster (Medea) and Berserker (Heracles) would all be strongest in Greece and Saber (King Arthur) would be strongest in England and Wales...though the latter two are so universally renowned that they'd get some degree of power boost anywhere on Earth. But since the Holy Grail War takes place in Japan and none of the Servants in either the Fourth or Fifth Grail War was Japanese (aside from the "fake Servant" Assassin/Sasaki Kojiro), this didn't really come into play.[[/note]], whereas being 5000 years older than any other spirit in the war is a gigantic boost to his power.

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** The boost his opponents get from being more popular, as Rin explains, is actually pretty insignificant[[note]]That boost would be far more significant in the actual location where a Servant's legend originated. For example, Lancer (Cú Chulainn) would be at his strongest in Ireland, Rider (Medusa), Caster (Medea) and Berserker (Heracles) would all be strongest in Greece and Saber (King Arthur) would be strongest in England and Wales...though the latter two are so universally renowned that they'd get some degree of power boost anywhere on Earth. But since the Holy Grail War takes place in Japan and none of the Servants in either the Fourth or Fifth Grail War was Japanese (aside from the "fake Servant" Assassin/Sasaki Kojiro), this didn't really come into play.[[/note]], whereas being 5000 1500 years older than any other spirit in the war is a gigantic boost to his power.
30th Oct '17 8:16:12 AM UglyPanda
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* This trope actually held perfectly true for any number of things for a period directly after the fall of the Roman Empire. A quick study of Medieval architecture will show that Medieval builders had a preference for building on the foundations of or simply modifying old Roman buildings because Roman engineering was simply better. Part of this was a single LostTechnology that was only recovered in the mid-1800s: concrete.

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* This trope actually held perfectly true for any number of things for a period directly after the fall of the Roman Empire. A quick study of Medieval architecture will show that Medieval builders had a preference for building on the foundations of or simply modifying old Roman buildings because Roman engineering was simply better. Part of this was a single LostTechnology that was only recovered in mostly forgotten until the mid-1800s: 14th century: concrete.
28th Oct '17 11:07:41 PM raziel365
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** This has resulted in what is popularly termed a "throw away culture" where it is in fact more efficient to mass produce something and then throw it away after a short period of time than to spend the effort to produce something that lasts.



* One of the reasons for the prevalence of this trope is the appearence of the "throw away culture" where new products are built with lesser durability or with a set "shell life" in comparison to their older counterparts to stimulate consumption. This becomes a greater problem for the people of countries that are not from the First World for whom buying a car or a fridge is already a costly investment and would prefer reliability over novelty.



* One of the advantages that the old, mechanical cars have over their automatic counterparts is that the former can be started up even when the battery is without power by pushing the car and starting the engine while the car is in movement, something that can't be done in the latter due to its greater reliance on the battery.



** Although taste is subjective, many think modern architecture and decor are cosmetically inferior to more traditional forms. A common critique is that modern decor does not blend well with non-modern elements or messes, so you will have to buy all modern furniture and always keep a tidy home. And, to many, the result is a cold, hard-edged, emotionless pile of contemptible trendiness.

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** Although taste is subjective, many think modern architecture and decor are cosmetically inferior to more traditional forms. A common critique is that modern decor does not blend well with non-modern elements or messes, so you will have to buy all modern furniture and always keep a tidy home. And, to many, the result is a cold, hard-edged, emotionless pile of contemptible trendiness. This is perhaps most notorious when you compare the amount of details and variations in the designs used for public buildings or monumental structures in the early years of the past century in comparison with the more simpler types of buildings of today.
26th Oct '17 6:25:04 PM Noelie84
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**In other cases it may be perfectly justified. As an example, fully functional refrigerators from the 50's and 40's are still widely available due to what may be superior construction vs modern designs (this troper has a General Electric from 1937 that still keeps his beer ice cold). While they may be less energy-efficient than the modern competition, it can be argued that the extra electricity costs are more than offset by not having to replace expensive parts (or entire units) on a regular basis.
26th Oct '17 9:00:29 AM LordInsane
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* Top-tier equipment (not just unique artifacts and relics) in the old ''VideoGame/MightAndMagic'' setting (in particular on Enroth) tends towards the old, generally for one of three reasons: it was made with the help of the [[LostTechnology Heavenly Forge]], it is so costly and complicated to make that most examples in existence are [[AncestralWeapon Ancestral]], or it is made from materials [[{{Unobtainium}} no longer available, or at least very, very rare]]. Notably, however, it is made clear that technology and magic ''is'' being developed as the years pass, it's just that the above factors skews the perspective for the absolute top-tier equipment (and indeed there are a few cases of top-tier gear that are actually ''new'').

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* Top-tier equipment (not just unique artifacts and relics) in the old ''VideoGame/MightAndMagic'' setting (in particular on Enroth) tends towards the old, generally for one of three reasons: it was made with the help of the [[LostTechnology Heavenly Forge]], Forge]] or otherwise by [[{{Precursor}} Ancient]] technology, it is so costly and complicated to make that most examples in existence are [[AncestralWeapon Ancestral]], or it is made from materials [[{{Unobtainium}} no longer available, or at least very, very rare]]. Notably, however, it is made clear that technology and magic ''is'' being developed as the years pass, it's just that the above factors skews the perspective for the absolute top-tier equipment (and indeed there are a few cases of top-tier gear that are actually ''new'').
4th Oct '17 12:00:21 PM Aquillion
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* Intentionally averted in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyII''. As [[http://www.siliconera.com/2014/10/20/final-fantasys-first-ultima-spell-useless/ this]] article reports, a programmer deliberately made Ultima, the legendary ancient magic, completely useless, saying that:
-->"All of that legendary stuff, it dates back to an age that didnít even have proper techniques. If you were to look at such things now in the presentís point-of-view, it would be natural that they look inferior. For this reason, itís a given that Ultimaís abilities would be bad."
20th Sep '17 4:37:41 PM DastardlyDemolition
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** ''Usually''. ''VideoGame/{{FalloutTactics}}'' and ''VideoGame/{{Fallout4}}'' shows that the Brotherhood of Steel have the means to construct airships despite the state of post-War America but still rely on pre-War vehicles. The Institute of ''VideoGame/{{Fallout4}}'' zigzag this: they can and have made [[DeceptivelyHumanRobots robots]] and [[ArtificialHuman synthetic humans]] that can pass off as normal people and even ''synthetic gorillas'' but the problem is that the robots are often more dim than pre-War robots an the laser pistols and rifles they are given are actually bigger and fire weaker shots than pre-War laser weapons, like those used by the Brotherhood of Steel.

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** ''Usually''. ''VideoGame/{{FalloutTactics}}'' ''VideoGame/{{Fallout Tactics}}'' and ''VideoGame/{{Fallout4}}'' ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}}'' shows that the Brotherhood of Steel have the means to construct airships despite the state of post-War America but still rely on pre-War vehicles. The Institute of ''VideoGame/{{Fallout4}}'' ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}}'' zigzag this: they can and have made [[DeceptivelyHumanRobots robots]] and [[ArtificialHuman synthetic humans]] that can pass off as normal people and even ''synthetic gorillas'' but the problem is that the robots are often more dim than pre-War robots an the laser pistols and rifles they are given are actually bigger and fire weaker shots than pre-War laser weapons, like those used by the Brotherhood of Steel.
20th Sep '17 4:35:10 PM DastardlyDemolition
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Added DiffLines:

** ''Usually''. ''VideoGame/{{FalloutTactics}}'' and ''VideoGame/{{Fallout4}}'' shows that the Brotherhood of Steel have the means to construct airships despite the state of post-War America but still rely on pre-War vehicles. The Institute of ''VideoGame/{{Fallout4}}'' zigzag this: they can and have made [[DeceptivelyHumanRobots robots]] and [[ArtificialHuman synthetic humans]] that can pass off as normal people and even ''synthetic gorillas'' but the problem is that the robots are often more dim than pre-War robots an the laser pistols and rifles they are given are actually bigger and fire weaker shots than pre-War laser weapons, like those used by the Brotherhood of Steel.
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