History Main / NotAsYouKnowThem

9th Apr '17 6:04:54 PM Gosicrystal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''VisualNovel/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney'', the main character of the [[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorney first three games]] has been disbarred and become a piano player since we last saw him. His sense of justice takes a battering after this, and he is no longer the upright, optimistic lawyer of the first three games. Stepping up to bat is novice lawyer Apollo Justice. On the flip side, borderline IdiotHero Phoenix has become something of TheChessmaster in the intervening years, working to reinstitute trial by jury [[spoiler: in order to collar Kristoph Gavin, the man who destroyed Phoenix's reputation and plotted multiple murders to keep his own spotless]]. Considering the way he shrugs off getting ''hit by a car'', one could argue he's been upgraded into a full-blown {{Determinator}}. And even without that, he comes back in [[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies the game after that]] as a lawyer again, much the same character he was before, but a little bit smarter and battle-hardened.


Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Visual Novels]]
* In ''VisualNovel/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney'', the main character of the [[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorney first three games]] has been disbarred and become a piano player since we last saw him. His sense of justice takes a battering after this, and he is no longer the upright, optimistic lawyer of the first three games. Stepping up to bat is novice lawyer Apollo Justice. On the flip side, borderline IdiotHero Phoenix has become something of TheChessmaster in the intervening years, working to reinstitute trial by jury [[spoiler: in order to collar Kristoph Gavin, the man who destroyed Phoenix's reputation and plotted multiple murders to keep his own spotless]]. Considering the way he shrugs off getting ''hit by a car'', one could argue he's been upgraded into a full-blown {{Determinator}}. And even without that, he comes back in [[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies the game after that]] as a lawyer again, much the same character he was before, but a little bit smarter and battle-hardened.
[[/folder]]
9th Apr '17 6:03:59 PM Gosicrystal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''VisualNovel/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney'', the main character of the [[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorney first three games]] has been disbarred and become a piano player since we last saw him. His sense of justice takes a battering after this, and he is no longer the upright, optimistic lawyer of the first three games. Stepping up to bat is novice lawyer Apollo Justice.
** On the flip side, borderline IdiotHero Phoenix has become something of TheChessmaster in the intervening years, working to reinstitute trial by jury [[spoiler: in order to collar Kristoph Gavin, the man who destroyed Phoenix's reputation and plotted multiple murders to keep his own spotless]]. Considering the way he shrugs off getting ''hit by a car'', one could argue he's been upgraded into a full-blown {{Determinator}}.
*** And even without that, he comes back in [[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies the game after that]] as a lawyer again, much the same character he was before, but a little bit smarter and battle-hardened.

to:

* In ''VisualNovel/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney'', the main character of the [[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorney first three games]] has been disbarred and become a piano player since we last saw him. His sense of justice takes a battering after this, and he is no longer the upright, optimistic lawyer of the first three games. Stepping up to bat is novice lawyer Apollo Justice.
**
Justice. On the flip side, borderline IdiotHero Phoenix has become something of TheChessmaster in the intervening years, working to reinstitute trial by jury [[spoiler: in order to collar Kristoph Gavin, the man who destroyed Phoenix's reputation and plotted multiple murders to keep his own spotless]]. Considering the way he shrugs off getting ''hit by a car'', one could argue he's been upgraded into a full-blown {{Determinator}}.
***
{{Determinator}}. And even without that, he comes back in [[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies the game after that]] as a lawyer again, much the same character he was before, but a little bit smarter and battle-hardened.



** Subverted in ''VideoGame/MegaManZero'' when [[spoiler:X appears to be the antagonist, but it turns out to be an impostor, and the real X is a cyber elf.]]

to:

** * Subverted in ''VideoGame/MegaManZero'' when [[spoiler:X appears to be the antagonist, but it turns out to be an impostor, and the real X is a cyber elf.]]



* In ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}} [[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver Gold, Silver and Crystal]]'', you play as a new character. However, deep inside the final dungeon of the game, [[PreviousPlayerCharacterCameo you find]] the player character from the original ''[[VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue Pokémon Red, Blue and Yellow]]'', who elsewhere in the game is stated to have been missing for years, simply standing there on a cliff staring at the sky and not speaking to you before or after he battles you (with what are far and away the most powerful Pokémon owned by any Trainer in the game). Some would argue that the lack of speech is simply because he is a SilentProtagonist in the original games, though in fact the dialogue of other characters frequently implies that your character actually spoke but you simply didn't see it directly. Creator/GameFreak would stick to Red "speaking" in VisibleSilence for [[VideoGameRemake his]] [[VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2 later]] [[VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon appearances]], likely for nostalgic purposes.
%%** [[WildMassGuessing Alternatively]], your old character WAS speaking to you. However, since everyone had their own interpretation of what his personality was, especially because he was an [[AudienceSurrogate audience surrogate]], they intentionally left his speech blank so that you could fill in the blanks yourself. The Red you played could have been an AllLovingHero, a SirSwearsALot, a CloudCuckooLander, anything! You decide what he said on that mountain!

to:

* In ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}} [[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver ''[[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver Pokémon Gold, Silver and Crystal]]'', you play as a new character. However, deep inside the final dungeon of the game, [[PreviousPlayerCharacterCameo you find]] the player character from the original ''[[VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue Pokémon Red, Blue and Yellow]]'', who elsewhere in the game is stated to have been missing for years, simply standing there on a cliff staring at the sky and not speaking to you before or after he battles you (with what are far and away the most powerful Pokémon owned by any Trainer in the game). Some would argue that the lack of speech is simply because he is a SilentProtagonist in the original games, though in fact the dialogue of other characters frequently implies that your character actually spoke but you simply didn't see it directly. Creator/GameFreak would stick to Red "speaking" in VisibleSilence for [[VideoGameRemake his]] [[VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2 later]] [[VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon appearances]], his later appearances [[note]]''[[VideoGameRemake Fire Red and Leaf Green]]'', ''[[VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2 Black 2 and White 2]]'', and ''[[VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon Sun and Moon]]''[[/note]], likely for nostalgic purposes.
%%** [[WildMassGuessing Alternatively]], your old character WAS speaking to you. However, since everyone had their own interpretation of what his personality was, especially because he was an [[AudienceSurrogate audience surrogate]], they intentionally left his speech blank so that you could fill in the blanks yourself. The Red you played could have been an AllLovingHero, a SirSwearsALot, a CloudCuckooLander, anything! You decide what he said on that mountain!
purposes.
4th Mar '17 9:08:07 AM X2X
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}} [[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver Gold, Silver and Crystal]]'', you play as a new character. However, deep inside the final dungeon of the game, [[PreviousPlayerCharacterCameo you find]] the player character from the original ''[[VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue Pokémon Red, Blue and Yellow]]'', who elsewhere in the game is stated to have been missing for years, simply standing there on a cliff staring at the sky and not speaking to you before or after he battles you (with what are far and away the most powerful Pokémon owned by any Trainer in the game). Some would argue that the lack of speech is simply because he is a SilentProtagonist in the original games, though in fact the dialogue of other characters frequently implies that your character actually spoke but you simply didn't see it directly. Creator/GameFreak would stick to Red "speaking" in VisibleSilence in [[VideoGameRemake his]] [[VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2 later]] [[VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon appearances]], likely for nostalgic purposes.

to:

* In ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}} [[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver Gold, Silver and Crystal]]'', you play as a new character. However, deep inside the final dungeon of the game, [[PreviousPlayerCharacterCameo you find]] the player character from the original ''[[VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue Pokémon Red, Blue and Yellow]]'', who elsewhere in the game is stated to have been missing for years, simply standing there on a cliff staring at the sky and not speaking to you before or after he battles you (with what are far and away the most powerful Pokémon owned by any Trainer in the game). Some would argue that the lack of speech is simply because he is a SilentProtagonist in the original games, though in fact the dialogue of other characters frequently implies that your character actually spoke but you simply didn't see it directly. Creator/GameFreak would stick to Red "speaking" in VisibleSilence in for [[VideoGameRemake his]] [[VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2 later]] [[VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon appearances]], likely for nostalgic purposes.
4th Mar '17 9:07:14 AM X2X
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Gold, Silver and Crystal'', you play as a new character. However, deep inside the final dungeon of the game, you find the player character from the original Pokémon Red, Blue and Yellow, who elsewhere in the game is stated to have been missing for years, simply standing there on a cliff staring at the sky and not speaking to you before or after he battles you (with what are far and away the most powerful Pokémon owned by any trainer in the game). Some would argue that the lack of speech is simply because he is a SilentProtagonist in the original games, though in fact the dialogue of other characters frequently implies that your character actually spoke but you simply didn't see it directly.

to:

* In ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}} [[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver Gold, Silver and Crystal'', Crystal]]'', you play as a new character. However, deep inside the final dungeon of the game, [[PreviousPlayerCharacterCameo you find find]] the player character from the original ''[[VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue Pokémon Red, Blue and Yellow, Yellow]]'', who elsewhere in the game is stated to have been missing for years, simply standing there on a cliff staring at the sky and not speaking to you before or after he battles you (with what are far and away the most powerful Pokémon owned by any trainer Trainer in the game). Some would argue that the lack of speech is simply because he is a SilentProtagonist in the original games, though in fact the dialogue of other characters frequently implies that your character actually spoke but you simply didn't see it directly. Creator/GameFreak would stick to Red "speaking" in VisibleSilence in [[VideoGameRemake his]] [[VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2 later]] [[VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon appearances]], likely for nostalgic purposes.



* ''VideoGame/{{Prototype 2}}'' replaces protagonist Alex Mercer with new character James Heller, a move the developers made to avert BagOfSpilling and in the hopes Heller would gain more audience sympathy. In the process, they decided to make Alex the [[RogueProtagonist villain]] - by completely inverting his personality and ignoring most of the last game's plot developments. Where Alex once went on a vicious RoaringRampageOfRevenge against those he perceived as responsible for New York's hellish state, [[spoiler:killed Greene to stop the infection, and blew himself to pieces preventing New York being nuked]], he's now deliberately ''spreading'' the infection (including to Heller), [[spoiler:making rambling speeches about humanity's worthlessness, working with plants in GENTEK to make the virus more powerful, planning to infect a pre-pubescent girl to create a new "Greene"...]] Even reading the bridging comics makes it only slightly less difficult to believe they're supposed to be the same person.

to:

* ''VideoGame/{{Prototype 2}}'' replaces protagonist Alex Mercer with new character James Heller, a move the developers made to avert BagOfSpilling and in the hopes Heller would gain more audience sympathy. In the process, they decided to make Alex the [[RogueProtagonist villain]] - -- by completely inverting his personality and ignoring most of the last game's plot developments. Where Alex once went on a vicious RoaringRampageOfRevenge against those he perceived as responsible for New York's hellish state, [[spoiler:killed Greene to stop the infection, and blew himself to pieces preventing New York being nuked]], he's now deliberately ''spreading'' the infection (including to Heller), [[spoiler:making rambling speeches about humanity's worthlessness, working with plants in GENTEK to make the virus more powerful, planning to infect a pre-pubescent girl to create a new "Greene"...]] Even reading the bridging comics makes it only slightly less difficult to believe they're supposed to be the same person.



* ''VideoGame/HarvestMoonBackToNature'' shares the same characters with ''VideoGame/{{Harvest Moon 64}}'' however the way they're presented is highly different. For example:
** Elli in 64 is the GirlNextDoor type who works at the local bakery. She is canonically overweight due to her SweetTooth and is insecure about it. Elli's parents were fishermen and died in a storm. She now lives at the baker with the owner Jefff and her grandmother Ellen. She goes through an important character arc later in the game [[spoiler:when her grandmother dies, and she must overcome her sorrow at losing her only remaining family member]]. Elli loves baking and fishing, and is often out by the river. Elli in BTN is a nurse who takes healthcare very seriously, and is no longer overweight. She works in the clinic with the Doctor, and lives in the village with her grandmother Ellen and her younger brother. Elli and Stu's parents died prior to the game due to unknown reasons. Elli admires the Doctor for his medical skills and is also in love with him.
** Popuri in 64 lives with her parents in her mother's flower shop in town. Popuri's dream is to cover the world with flowers, like her grandmother Nina. Popuri takes flowers and plants very seriously. She has a father complex as her dad is gone for half the year. Because of this Poppuri often acts [[TheDitz childish]], since her father babies her when he is around. In BTN Popuri is the spoiled little sister of Rick who lives at the chicken farm with her mother. Popuri's father left a long time ago to search for medicine for [[IllGirl Lillia]] but has never returned. This has caused Rick to assume the role of "man of the house".. Popuri wants to be something more than a meer chicken farmer and is attracted to Kai, who will take her away with him if the two get married. Popuri loves chickens and some of her favorite gifts are eggs as well as flowers.
** Karen is an aggressive woman who lives at the Vineyard, with her [[TheAlcoholic drunkard]] father Gotz (who is implied to be [[AbusiveParents abusive]]) and her depressed and reserved mother, along with their field worker Kai. Karen wants to get out of the country and see the city but she also loves the vineyard and dreams of restoring it to its former glory from the days of her grandmother, Eve. Karen likes to drink, which is implied to be mostly due to [[DrowningMySorrows drowning her sorrows]], and works in the bar at night. Karen in BTN is a laid back, casual girl who lives at the grocery store with her weak-willed father, Jeff, and her overbearing and outspoken mother. She still likes to drink, but does not work at the bar and doesn't have a reason behind it other than liking it. She is childhood friends with Rick and tries to make him see how unreasonable he can sometimes be. Karen is a CoolBigSis figure
** Mary (or Maria as she's called) in 64 is a ''very'' shy librarian, but will grow more self confidence if you befriend (or woo) her. She is quite religious and likes playing the piano at church. In BTN she's more aloof and reserved than actually shy and lacks the religious aspect.
** Ann in 64 is a loud, playful tomboy who lives, with her dad and her brother Gray, on a ranch. Ann loves animals. Her mother died when she was very young. She knows that her father is worried about her future, thinking that no one will want to marry her because she is so boyish, so she tries to do girly things. However, everything Ann cooks is [[LethalChef horrible]] and will literally make your character sick Ann is a bit rough and has some DomesticAbuse qualities, as she actually hits Cliff if they get married and even you in some events. She is best friends with Karen, and cousins with Rick (both descended from SNES Ann), and hangs out with both of them often. Ann in BtN is a cheerful tomboy from the restaurant, where she lives with her father, Doug. Ann is much more domestic in BTN despite still being a tomboy, and is actually a great cook this time around. She is still insecure about her tomboyishness, and thinks boys will not like her. She's unrelated to Rick.

to:

* ''VideoGame/HarvestMoonBackToNature'' shares the same characters with ''VideoGame/{{Harvest Moon 64}}'' however ''VideoGame/HarvestMoon64' but the way they're presented is highly different. For example:
** Elli in 64 ''64'' is the GirlNextDoor type who works at the local bakery. She is canonically overweight due to her SweetTooth and is insecure about it. Elli's parents were fishermen and died in a storm. She now lives at the baker with the owner Jefff and her grandmother Ellen. She goes through an important character arc later in the game [[spoiler:when her grandmother dies, and she must overcome her sorrow at losing her only remaining family member]]. Elli loves baking and fishing, and is often out by the river. Elli in BTN ''[=BtN=]'' is a nurse who takes healthcare very seriously, and is no longer overweight. She works in the clinic with the Doctor, and lives in the village with her grandmother Ellen and her younger brother. Elli and Stu's parents died prior to the game due to unknown reasons. Elli admires the Doctor for his medical skills and is also in love with him.
** Popuri in 64 ''64'' lives with her parents in her mother's flower shop in town. Popuri's dream is to cover the world with flowers, like her grandmother Nina. Popuri takes flowers and plants very seriously. She has a father complex as her dad is gone for half the year. Because of this Poppuri often acts [[TheDitz childish]], since her father babies her when he is around. In BTN ''[=BtN=]'', Popuri is the spoiled little sister of Rick who lives at the chicken farm with her mother. Popuri's father left a long time ago to search for medicine for [[IllGirl Lillia]] but has never returned. This has caused Rick to assume the role of "man of the house".. house." Popuri wants to be something more than a meer chicken farmer and is attracted to Kai, who will take her away with him if the two get married. Popuri loves chickens and some of her favorite gifts are eggs as well as flowers.
** Karen is an aggressive woman who lives at the Vineyard, with her [[TheAlcoholic drunkard]] father Gotz (who is implied to be [[AbusiveParents abusive]]) and her depressed and reserved mother, along with their field worker Kai. Karen wants to get out of the country and see the city but she also loves the vineyard and dreams of restoring it to its former glory from the days of her grandmother, Eve. Karen likes to drink, which is implied to be mostly due to [[DrowningMySorrows drowning her sorrows]], and works in the bar at night. Karen in BTN ''[=BtN=]'' is a laid back, casual girl who lives at the grocery store with her weak-willed father, Jeff, and her overbearing and outspoken mother. She still likes to drink, but does not work at the bar and doesn't have a reason behind it other than liking it. She is childhood friends with Rick and tries to make him see how unreasonable he can sometimes be. Karen is a CoolBigSis figure
** Mary (or Maria as she's called) in 64 ''64'' is a ''very'' shy librarian, but will grow more self confidence if you befriend (or woo) her. She is quite religious and likes playing the piano at church. In BTN ''[=BtN=]'' she's more aloof and reserved than actually shy and lacks the religious aspect.
** Ann in 64 ''64'' is a loud, playful tomboy who lives, with her dad and her brother Gray, on a ranch. Ann loves animals. Her mother died when she was very young. She knows that her father is worried about her future, thinking that no one will want to marry her because she is so boyish, so she tries to do girly things. However, everything Ann cooks is [[LethalChef horrible]] and will literally make your character sick Ann is a bit rough and has some DomesticAbuse qualities, as she actually hits Cliff if they get married and even you in some events. She is best friends with Karen, and cousins with Rick (both descended from SNES Ann), and hangs out with both of them often. Ann in BtN ''[=BtN=]'' is a cheerful tomboy from the restaurant, where she lives with her father, Doug. Ann is much more domestic in BTN ''[=BtN=]'' despite still being a tomboy, and is actually a great cook this time around. She is still insecure about her tomboyishness, and thinks boys will not like her. She's unrelated to Rick.
2nd Oct '16 2:38:12 PM StrixObscuro
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* In ''ComicBook/{{The Vision 2015}}'', Victor Mancha was retconned into being a drug-addled thief and murderer who was still fated to become [[SuperpoweredEvilSide Victorious]] so that he could be killed off by Vision's wife without imperiling Vision's career with ComicBook/TheAvengers.
29th Jul '16 7:30:07 PM AHI-3000
Is there an issue? Send a Message


-->-- '''Riley Freeman''', ''ComicStrip/TheBoondocks''

to:

-->-- '''Riley Freeman''', ''ComicStrip/TheBoondocks''
''WesternAnimation/TheBoondocks'' ("[[Recap/TheBoondocksS1E3GuessHoesComingToDinner Guess Hoe's Coming to Dinner]]")
4th Jul '16 12:51:05 AM Morgenthaler
Is there an issue? Send a Message


The "victim" who was DyingToBeReplaced is moved out of the way, but the victim who is Not As You Know Them is expected to stick around and suffer. Not only have they lost their old title, it's usually through circumstance rather than their own fault. Unfortunately, whatever happened to them has transformed their personality - generally into something [[DarkerAndEdgier more jaded]]. They're still there in the story, they're still (usually) on the side of good... but for all intents and purposes, [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks it may as well be a different character]]. They often become a cynical version of TheObiWan to the new hero, who, of course, is [[BeginnersLuck much better at their job than they ever were]].

to:

The "victim" who was DyingToBeReplaced is moved out of the way, but the victim who is Not As You Know Them is expected to stick around and suffer. Not only have they lost their old title, it's usually through circumstance rather than their own fault. Unfortunately, whatever happened to them has transformed their personality - generally into something [[DarkerAndEdgier more jaded]]. They're still there in the story, they're still (usually) on the side of good... but for all intents and purposes, [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks it may as well be a different character]]. They often become a cynical version of TheObiWan CynicalMentor to the new hero, who, of course, is [[BeginnersLuck much better at their job than they ever were]].
15th Mar '16 4:35:19 PM Adept
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** [[WildMassGuessing Alternatively]], your old character WAS speaking to you. However, since everyone had their own interpretation of what his personality was, especially because he was an [[AudienceSurrogate audience surrogate]], they intentionally left his speech blank so that you could fill in the blanks yourself. The Red you played could have been an AllLovingHero, a SirSwearsALot, a CloudCuckooLander, anything! You decide what he said on that mountain!

to:

** %%** [[WildMassGuessing Alternatively]], your old character WAS speaking to you. However, since everyone had their own interpretation of what his personality was, especially because he was an [[AudienceSurrogate audience surrogate]], they intentionally left his speech blank so that you could fill in the blanks yourself. The Red you played could have been an AllLovingHero, a SirSwearsALot, a CloudCuckooLander, anything! You decide what he said on that mountain!
13th Jan '16 10:50:16 PM StrixObscuro
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** In ''ComicBook/{{Runaways 2015}}'', Molly, the only returning member from the original team (and supposedly only included because someone higher up insisted on it), was reduced to being a TagalongKid so that she wouldn't overshadow the new team.
29th Dec '15 5:44:42 AM Anddrix
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'', after the writers decided to have Ben Grimm reunite with his ex Alicia Masters, his then-girlfriend Sharon Ventura was given a FaceHeelTurn wherein she made a deal with SelfDemonstrating/DoctorDoom in hopes of being restored to her normal form, which naturally caused a rift between her and Ben and ultimately led to her being kicked off the team.

to:

* In ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'', after the writers decided to have Ben Grimm reunite with his ex Alicia Masters, his then-girlfriend Sharon Ventura was given a FaceHeelTurn wherein she made a deal with SelfDemonstrating/DoctorDoom Doctor Doom in hopes of being restored to her normal form, which naturally caused a rift between her and Ben and ultimately led to her being kicked off the team.
This list shows the last 10 events of 51. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.NotAsYouKnowThem