History Main / NotASubversion

8th Mar '17 10:26:49 PM TheBigBopper
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-->-- '''WebVideo/{{Digibro}}''', [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUQfInd0gLA&t=53s Is There Meaning In "Subverting" Shounen Tropes?]]

to:

-->-- '''WebVideo/{{Digibro}}''', [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUQfInd0gLA&t=53s Is There Meaning In "Subverting" Shounen Tropes?]]
Tropes?]] (video contains spoilers)
8th Mar '17 10:22:50 PM TheBigBopper
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->''"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."''
-->-- '''Inigo Montoya''', ''Film/ThePrincessBride''

to:

->''"You keep using -> ''"In today's pop cultural landscape there seems to be this sort of obsession with the ideas of "subversion" and "{{deconstruction}}." When a show comes along that word. does something a little bit different from the LowestCommonDenominator idea of what would be considered normal for its genre, people are quick to praise the innovation that they feel is on display and to herald the crushing of the old tropes. While I do not can appreciate this excitement over the idea of innovation and challenging storytelling norms, I think that a lot of this overzealous celebration is misguided. And to me it means what you reeks too much of coming from the position of wanting to think it means."''
that the things you like are somehow smarter, more mature, and more interesting than the stuff that came before, or that is propped up by the mainstream.'"''
-->-- '''Inigo Montoya''', ''Film/ThePrincessBride''
'''WebVideo/{{Digibro}}''', [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUQfInd0gLA&t=53s Is There Meaning In "Subverting" Shounen Tropes?]]
8th Jan '17 1:22:14 PM skadooshbag
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A good rule of thumb for remembering which is which is that a ''subv''ersion is where the writer literally "''subv''erts our expectations," while an ''av''ersion is where the writer completely ''av''oids them from the get-go.

to:

A good rule of thumb for remembering which is which is that a ''subv''ersion is where the writer literally "''subv''erts our expectations," while an ''av''ersion is where the writer completely ''av''oids them from the get-go.
get-go. (in fact, it might even be better for aversions to simply be called "avoidances," were it not for the enormous hassle such a change would be for this site).
8th Jan '17 1:19:30 PM skadooshbag
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Added DiffLines:

A good rule of thumb for remembering which is which is that a ''subv''ersion is where the writer literally "''subv''erts our expectations," while an ''av''ersion is where the writer completely ''av''oids them from the get-go.
31st Jul '16 6:26:35 PM Gideoncrawle
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->''"YouKeepUsingThatWord. I do not think it means what you think it means."''

to:

->''"YouKeepUsingThatWord.->''"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."''
14th Apr '16 10:14:47 AM TinOz
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->''"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."''

to:

->''"You keep using that word.->''"YouKeepUsingThatWord. I do not think it means what you think it means."''
20th Oct '15 3:58:08 PM MarsJenkar
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A trope can of course be both inverted and subverted, if the viewer or reader is led to expect the straight version only to be given an inversion of some kind, but an inverted trope is not automatically also a subverted one: there needs to be a genuine attempt to suggest that the trope is going to be used straight to qualify as a "subversion".

to:

A trope can of course be both inverted and subverted, if the viewer or reader is led to expect the straight version only to be given an inversion of some kind, but an inverted trope is not automatically also a subverted one: there needs to be a genuine attempt to suggest that the trope is going to be used straight to qualify as a "subversion".
"subversion". Continuing the example above:

* Subversion ''and'' inversion: The show makes it look like the black dude is going to die first, but he doesn't--everyone ''else'' dies instead.
25th Apr '15 3:26:51 AM MyTimingIsOff
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Sometimes, when people talk of "Partial Subversion", they mean DownplayedTrope, where the trope is still present, but to a much lesser degree.

to:

Sometimes, when people talk of "Partial Subversion", a "partial subversion", they mean DownplayedTrope, where the trope is still present, but to a much lesser degree.



Worst case scenario, the so-called "subversion" is actually not an example at all. If the event that gets "subverted" is NotATrope, it is not a subversion because there is no trope. It's just BaitAndSwitch.

to:

Worst case scenario, the so-called "subversion" is actually not an example at all. If the event that gets "subverted" is NotATrope, Administrivia/NotATrope, it is not a subversion because there is no trope. It's just BaitAndSwitch.
24th Apr '15 8:10:38 PM Elusivehawk
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->''You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.''

to:

->''You ->''"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.''"''
8th Mar '15 12:02:32 PM MyTimingIsOff
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As an example, if the trope in question is the BlackDudeDiesFirst.

to:

As an example, if the trope in question is the BlackDudeDiesFirst.BlackDudeDiesFirst:



Worse, occasionally a ''slight'' spin on the standard trope formula, such as the addition of a [[JustifiedTrope justification]], is seized upon as a subversion by the occasional fan, perhaps because they don't want to acknowledge that a trope was played deadly straight [[TropesAreNotBad to good effect]] in their favourite work. The reverse assumption is also common.

to:

Worse, occasionally a ''slight'' spin on the standard trope formula, such as the addition of a [[JustifiedTrope justification]], justification, is seized upon as a subversion by the occasional fan, perhaps because they don't want to acknowledge that a trope was played deadly straight [[TropesAreNotBad [[TropesAreTools to good effect]] in their favourite work. The reverse assumption is also common.



Occasionally, {{Deconstruction}}s are also listed as subversions. A DeconstructedTrope is played completely straight, and so is not a subversion even though they subvert people's expectations of the ''consequences'' of a trope. There's also a related problem of people mislabelling things as deconstructions or [[DeconstructedTrope Deconstructed Tropes]] [[NotADeconstruction when they aren't]], but that's another matter.

to:

Occasionally, {{Deconstruction}}s are also listed as subversions. A DeconstructedTrope is played completely straight, and so is not a subversion even though they subvert people's expectations of the ''consequences'' of a trope. There's also a related problem of people mislabelling things as deconstructions or [[DeconstructedTrope Deconstructed Tropes]] deconstructed tropes [[NotADeconstruction when they aren't]], but that's another matter.



* "Actually somewhat subverted because..."
* "A possible subversion is..."

to:

* "Actually "[[Administrivia/ConversationInTheMainPage Actually]] somewhat subverted because..."
* "A possible [[Administrivia/ExamplesAreNotArguable possible]] subversion is..."
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.NotASubversion