History Main / NoSuchThingAsWizardJesus

16th Apr '17 3:17:34 PM nombretomado
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** The SpaceWolves psyker-equivalents (Rune Priests) have very different powers from the other Imperials, being able to conjure lightning, ghostly wolves, and earthquakes. Leman Russ believed their power comes from Fenris and not the Warp, [[DoesNotLikeMagic making them acceptable to him,]] others are not so sure.

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** The SpaceWolves [[Literature/SpaceWolf Space Wolves]] psyker-equivalents (Rune Priests) have very different powers from the other Imperials, being able to conjure lightning, ghostly wolves, and earthquakes. Leman Russ believed their power comes from Fenris and not the Warp, [[DoesNotLikeMagic making them acceptable to him,]] others are not so sure.
1st Apr '17 9:23:29 PM DustSnitch
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* {{Double Subver|sion}}ted in Creator/TadWilliams' ''[[Literature/MemorySorrowAndThorn The Burning Man]]''. An old and embittered nobleman doubts whether the {{Jesus}} {{Expy}} Usires Aedon is a son of God - or just a [[HalfHumanHybrid half-sithi]], because presumably all his miracles could be performed by a strong [[TheFairFolk sithi]] magician. The nobleman contacts an ancient sithi to know the answer. [[spoiler: However, the sithi doesn't know - and points out that it doesn't really matter, because a half-sithi could be a son of God just as well as a human.]]

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* {{Double Subver|sion}}ted in Creator/TadWilliams' ''[[Literature/MemorySorrowAndThorn The Burning Man]]''. An old and embittered nobleman doubts whether the {{Jesus}} UsefulNotes/{{Jesus}} {{Expy}} Usires Aedon is a son of God - or just a [[HalfHumanHybrid half-sithi]], because presumably all his miracles could be performed by a strong [[TheFairFolk sithi]] magician. The nobleman contacts an ancient sithi to know the answer. [[spoiler: However, the sithi doesn't know - and points out that it doesn't really matter, because a half-sithi could be a son of God just as well as a human.]]
1st Apr '17 9:23:29 PM DustSnitch
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28th Mar '17 7:37:32 PM DustSnitch
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Hrm, weren't there some other historical people who performed miraculous feats? People who ended up being worshipped? If you have these wizards running around turning lead into gold, who is to say that in this universe, {{Jesus}} wasn't just a cultist wizard conning people over by turning water into wine?

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Hrm, weren't there some other historical people who performed miraculous feats? People who ended up being worshipped? If you have these wizards running around turning lead into gold, who is to say that in this universe, {{Jesus}} UsefulNotes/{{Jesus}} wasn't just a cultist wizard conning people over by turning water into wine?
22nd Mar '17 5:19:17 PM KamenRiderOokalf
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* The Saint King from ''MagicalGirlLyricalNanoha'', a society of TheMultiverse spanning [[MagicFromTechnology Techno]]-[[{{Magitek}} Mages]] have a [[SaintlyChurch perfectly respectable religion]] that a large portion of the population are members. Yes, quite a few people can hurl lightning bolts and heal people with a touch; but that doesn't mean the lessons given shouldn't be revered. In the supplementary material its hinted that the title of "Belkan Saint King" is descriptive, a Belkan King who is revered as a saint because of exemplary character rather than divinity or extraordinary power (although there is that too...)

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* The Saint King from ''MagicalGirlLyricalNanoha'', ''Franchise/LyricalNanoha'', a society of TheMultiverse spanning [[MagicFromTechnology Techno]]-[[{{Magitek}} Mages]] have a [[SaintlyChurch perfectly respectable religion]] that a large portion of the population are members. Yes, quite a few people can hurl lightning bolts and heal people with a touch; but that doesn't mean the lessons given shouldn't be revered. In the supplementary material its hinted that the title of "Belkan Saint King" is descriptive, a Belkan King who is revered as a saint because of exemplary character rather than divinity or extraordinary power (although there is that too...)
4th Mar '17 1:46:55 PM NOYB
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** There's also been different views of the issue throughout history. With certain groups like the Jesuits arguing scientific understanding as understanding of gods creation, while others argue it is picking apart at the very notion of god.

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** There's also been different views of the issue throughout history. With certain groups like the Jesuits arguing scientific understanding as understanding of gods God's creation, while others argue it is picking apart at the very notion of god.God.
4th Mar '17 1:34:44 PM NOYB
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*** This is further hurt in the eyes of the Thedosian public because it is the Holy Canon of TheRemnant of said Magocracy which has come to follow Andraste themselves (although the Southern Chantry would say they follow Andraste InNameOnly).

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*** This is further hurt in the eyes of the Thedosian Thedasian public because it is the Holy Canon of TheRemnant of said Magocracy Magocracy, which has come to follow Andraste themselves (although the Southern Chantry would say they follow Andraste InNameOnly).
28th Feb '17 10:22:51 PM NOYB
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** The Doctor fights a being who claims to be Satan in "The Impossible Planet" / "The Satan Pit". Interestingly, the crisis of faith he suffers during the episode is not due to following any kind of religion, but because "Satan" asserts that it had been bound on that world since ''before'' our universe began. While the Time Lords mastered travel between parallel universes, pocket universe and had ventured from the beginning and end of our own, they never found any evidence that a universe could have existed before our own. The Doctor even goes so far to claim that even if one ''had'', he believed it ''impossible'' that anything could have survived the collapse of reality before the Big Bang kickstarted it off again.
** ''Series/TorchwoodChildrenOfEarth'' reference is made to a religious woman who committed suicide after the public revelation of the existence of aliens claiming that "Science has won".

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** The Doctor fights a being who claims to be Satan in "The Impossible Planet" / "The Satan Pit". Interestingly, the crisis of faith he suffers during the episode is not due to following any kind of religion, but because "Satan" asserts that it had been bound on that world since ''before'' our universe began. While the Time Lords mastered travel between parallel universes, pocket universe universes, and had ventured from the beginning and end of our own, they never found any evidence that a universe could have existed before our own. The Doctor even goes so far to claim that even if one ''had'', he believed it ''impossible'' that anything could have survived the collapse of reality before the Big Bang kickstarted it off again.
*** Funnily enough, though, his former companion Sarah Jane had no trouble believing that the Ancient Lights came from the pre-universe when they appeared in ''Series/TheSarahJaneAdventures''.
** ''Series/TorchwoodChildrenOfEarth'' In ''Series/TorchwoodChildrenOfEarth'', reference is made to a religious woman who committed suicide after the public revelation of the existence of aliens aliens, claiming that "Science has won".



*** In the Torchwood universe it seems to be canon that there's no existence after death, which suggests that Jesus/Christianity/many religions are fake, but the series it branched off from and all other adaptions of the series have never confirmed that this is the case. Most likely because Torchwood was made to be DarkerAndEdgier than it's parent show while Series/DoctorWho usually leans towards optimism and AllMythsAreTrue or AliensDidIt. So while fake!Jesus is implied in Torchwood, it's contradicted by the rest of the canon.

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*** In the Torchwood ''Torchwood'' universe it seems to be canon that there's no existence after death, which suggests that Jesus/Christianity/many religions are fake, but the series it branched off from and all other adaptions of the series have never confirmed that this is the case. Most likely because Torchwood ''Torchwood'' was made to be DarkerAndEdgier than it's its parent show show, while Series/DoctorWho ''Series/DoctorWho'' usually leans towards optimism and AllMythsAreTrue or AliensDidIt. So while fake!Jesus is implied in Torchwood, ''Torchwood'', it's contradicted by the rest of the canon.



* "Series/{{Supernatural}}" gets around this by simply not mentioning Jesus at all. In a world where God, Satan, Demons, Angels, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, the Bible, the Apocalypse, the Four Horsemen and a plethora of non-Judeo-Christian gods all exists, no one has ever asked in eleven seasons "Where is Jesus in all of this?" Not even the angels who have been looking for [[DisappearedDad God]] for over six seasons.

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* "Series/{{Supernatural}}" gets around this by simply not mentioning Jesus at all. In a world where God, Satan, Demons, Angels, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, the Bible, the Apocalypse, the Four Horsemen and a plethora of non-Judeo-Christian gods all exists, exist, no one has ever asked in eleven seasons "Where is Jesus in all of this?" Not even the angels who have been looking for [[DisappearedDad God]] for over six seasons.



* In Carrie Vaughn's ''Golden Apple'' two immortals, one of them a survivor of the Trojan War, the other, the Wandering Jew, discuss having met Jesus who, like all other deities was simply a very powerful wizard.

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* In Carrie Vaughn's ''Golden Apple'' two immortals, one of them a survivor of the Trojan War, the other, the Wandering Jew, discuss having met Jesus who, like all other deities deities, was simply a very powerful wizard.



*** Although gods are manifestly real, AllMythsAreTrue, and Moses was apparently a badass enough wizard that he's the only outsider ever to best the House of Life, so it certainly be said to work anyway.
** In addition, the story "The Son of Magic" from the Demigod Diaries, shows Hecate, the goddess of magic, praying in a Christian Church. Though ''what'' exactly she was doing is never told, it's implied she is praying to God.

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*** Although gods are manifestly real, AllMythsAreTrue, and Moses was apparently a badass enough wizard that he's the only outsider ever to best the House of Life, so it certainly can be said to work anyway.
** In addition, the story "The Son of Magic" from the ''The Demigod Diaries, Diaries'', shows Hecate, the goddess of magic, praying in a Christian Church. Though ''what'' exactly she was doing is never told, it's implied she is praying to God.



* In Alexey Pehov's ''Under Manticore's Sign'' the major plot point is aversion of this trope. Not only was Jesus-like figure (Savior) a wizard, he and Satan were best buds until a major disagreement on the way magic should be used. When reaching an agreement proved impossible, Savior and his followers attacked Satan and Satan's faction. Later he established the Church for the sole reason to enforce his vision[[note]]Savior insisted that magic without strict supervision will be used in wars and lead to great destruction, while Satan argued that they cannot suppress inherent magical abilities in people for both moral and practical reasons.[[/note]]. Obviously, Holy Book of said church claims that it was Satan and his followers who attacked Savior.

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* In Alexey Pehov's ''Under Manticore's Sign'' the major plot point is aversion of this trope. Not only was Jesus-like figure (Savior) a wizard, he and Satan were best buds until a major disagreement on the way magic should be used. When reaching an agreement proved impossible, Savior and his followers attacked Satan and Satan's faction. Later he established the Church for the sole reason to enforce his vision[[note]]Savior insisted that magic without strict supervision will be used in wars and lead to great destruction, while Satan argued that they cannot suppress inherent magical abilities in people for both moral and practical reasons.[[/note]]. Obviously, the Holy Book of said church claims that it was Satan and his followers who attacked Savior.



* Buddhism has a rather peculiar way with this trope. According to the Buddha, anyone who is shaping themselves for enlightenment will eventually gain supernatural powers, but it's actually a worldly distraction which prevents one from reaching true enlightenment. Therefore: If Wizard, Then Not Buddha.

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* Buddhism has a rather peculiar way with this trope. According to the Buddha, anyone who is shaping themselves for enlightenment will eventually gain supernatural powers, but it's actually a worldly distraction which that prevents one from reaching true enlightenment. Therefore: If Wizard, Then Not Buddha.



* Averted (vaguely) in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics,'' though that's a CrystalDragonJesus. [[spoiler: The historical St. Ajora was an agent provocateur who made an alliance with Lucavi, the Demon Emperor.]]

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* Averted (vaguely) in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics,'' though that's a CrystalDragonJesus. [[spoiler: The historical St. Ajora was an agent provocateur who made an alliance with Lucavi, the Demon Emperor.Lucavi demons.]]
28th Feb '17 10:12:42 PM NOYB
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** They did it to a CaptainErsatz of that religion instead. [[PathOfInspiration Hallowed are the Ori]]! Though Daniel at one point does point out that many modern religions associate fire with evil. And what do the Ori manifest as? At most, they're suggesting that Jesus may have been secretly working for demons.

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** They did it to a CaptainErsatz of that religion instead. [[PathOfInspiration Hallowed are the Ori]]! Though Daniel at one point does point out that many modern religions associate fire with evil. And what do the Ori manifest as? At most, they're suggesting that Jesus may have been secretly working for demons.as?
18th Feb '17 12:36:37 AM StevieG
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Added DiffLines:

* One story arc in ''ComicBook/XMen'' saw devout Catholic Nightcrawler having a crisis of faith after the omnipotent Beyonder comes to Earth, when he wondered if this made God a monster.
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