History Main / NoPointsForNeutrality

12th May '16 8:29:54 AM spiritsunami
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** Also played with in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV''. As is the norm for the series, the neutral ending is the best possible ending, but the decision tree that immediately precedes the alignment lock has such a massive effect on the karma meter that a character with a perfectly balanced meter entering the choice is actually locked out of Neutrality and would wind up on whichever path corresponds to their last choice. Only by leaning ''slightly'' to one side and then picking the opposite side at the last moment can one reach the Neutral path.
16th Mar '16 7:33:35 AM dotchan
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* Yahtzee regularly discusses this in ''WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation'', even providing this page's quote. His main gripes are that it feels like he's being forced to play the game twice, and that the two sides are often mutually exclusive. He even calls out games he otherwise likes on this, such as ''inFAMOUS'' and its sequel.

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* Yahtzee regularly discusses this in ''WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation'', even providing this page's quote.''WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation''. His main gripes are that it feels like he's being forced to play the game twice, and that the two sides are often mutually exclusive. He even calls out games he otherwise likes on this, such as ''inFAMOUS'' and its sequel.
18th Jan '16 10:51:45 AM thatother1dude
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* Averted in the ''Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei'' series, where the Neutral path is usually the only way to avoid humanity's annihilation or enslavement. Of course, [[HumansAreBastards depending on your viewpoint]], this may not qualify as the ''best'' ending...

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* Averted in the ''Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei'' series, where the Neutral path is usually the hardest to obtain but [[EarnYourHappyEnding the only way to avoid humanity's annihilation or enslavement.enslavement]]. Of course, [[HumansAreBastards depending on your viewpoint]], this may not qualify as the ''best'' ending...
6th Jan '16 3:50:47 PM WanderingBrowser
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* In ''BaldursGate'', you can play a neutral alignment, but most quest rewards are based on a good/evil option, and rewards are biased towards good, [[EvilPaysBetter subverting the normal temptation for players.]] Neutral-aligned party members will stay with a group with saintly reputation despite occasionally complaining, and even evil companions will only leave at the highest (19-20) reputation levels.

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* In ''BaldursGate'', ''Franchise/BaldursGate'', you can play a neutral alignment, but most quest rewards are based on a good/evil option, and rewards are biased towards good, [[EvilPaysBetter subverting the normal temptation for players.]] Neutral-aligned party members will stay with a group with saintly reputation despite occasionally complaining, and even evil companions will only leave at the highest (19-20) reputation levels.


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** This is sort of justified, however, in that the game's storyline is that you are a child of a resident GodOfEvil; either you're actively fighting against the impulse to take his place, or actively embracing it. There's not a whole lot of room for middle ground there.
19th Dec '15 4:00:02 PM nombretomado
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** ''Fable'' is a notable aversion of this. While there are times where you have to make a flat Good or Evil decision, most of these are pretty clear-cut cases (will you spare the bandit or kill him?) and you don't recieve any penalties for staying neutral. The townsfolk will even comment on this, discussing your characters unpredictability. The ending of the Lost Chapters is pretty neutral, coming down to a straight fight between you and the villain.
** ''Fable 2'' likewise doesn't really penalise you for staying neutral, other than affecting prices, and even then you don't have to be a paragon of virtue or the scariest person alive to talk the townsfolk into giving you a better deal. There are also more neutral choices. At the start of the game, you have a chance to free some townsfolk or let them become slaves for a bribe. One of the options is to walk clean away from the situation altogether after the bandit attacks you anyway, leaving them in their cages for someone else to either let out or enslave. You've cleared the roadblock to Bowerstone, from your perspective it's [[BystanderSyndrome someone else's problem]]. And there is an explicitly neutral ending option.
* Averted in ''ShadowTheHedgehog''. Going down the "neutral" path means not helping either the heroes or Black Doom, but instead going after Dr. Eggman. The main conflict still goes on, but Shadow isn't much of a factor in it. Though, individual levels, especially those on the extreme ends of the map, can sometimes play this straight if there's no neutral option. And the game ''does'' take this trope's title literally- the good and evil goals add and subtract points based on your morality, while the neutral goals ignore morality and only judge your score by speed and rings collected.

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** ''Fable'' ''{{VideoGame/Fable|I}}'' is a notable aversion of this. While there are times where you have to make a flat Good or Evil decision, most of these are pretty clear-cut cases (will you spare the bandit or kill him?) and you don't recieve any penalties for staying neutral. The townsfolk will even comment on this, discussing your characters unpredictability. The ending of the Lost Chapters is pretty neutral, coming down to a straight fight between you and the villain.
** ''Fable 2'' ''VideoGame/FableII'' likewise doesn't really penalise you for staying neutral, other than affecting prices, and even then you don't have to be a paragon of virtue or the scariest person alive to talk the townsfolk into giving you a better deal. There are also more neutral choices. At the start of the game, you have a chance to free some townsfolk or let them become slaves for a bribe. One of the options is to walk clean away from the situation altogether after the bandit attacks you anyway, leaving them in their cages for someone else to either let out or enslave. You've cleared the roadblock to Bowerstone, from your perspective it's [[BystanderSyndrome someone else's problem]]. And there is an explicitly neutral ending option.
* Averted in ''ShadowTheHedgehog''.''VideoGame/ShadowTheHedgehog''. Going down the "neutral" path means not helping either the heroes or Black Doom, but instead going after Dr. Eggman. The main conflict still goes on, but Shadow isn't much of a factor in it. Though, individual levels, especially those on the extreme ends of the map, can sometimes play this straight if there's no neutral option. And the game ''does'' take this trope's title literally- the good and evil goals add and subtract points based on your morality, while the neutral goals ignore morality and only judge your score by speed and rings collected.
4th Dec '15 2:18:29 AM Ninjat126
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** In story, good!Cole comes across as a bit of an AntiHero or EverymanHero. In gameplay, you're locked into the one path except near the end of both games: a PoweredByAForsakenChild upgrade in 1, or the SadisticChoice in 2.
15th Nov '15 11:50:04 AM LentilSandEater
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* Averted in ''[[VideoGame/GalacticCivilizations Galactic Civilizations II]]'': When your civilization chooses an alignment, all three alignments (good, neutral and evil) have bonuses. Some players even argue that the Neutral choice gives the ''best'' bonuses.
** Keyword here is ''choose''. The permanent alignment selection is a ScrewTheRulesIHaveMoney event that allows you to totally ignore your KarmaMeter and set your alignment to whatever you want as long as you can pay for it. But up till then, the game plays this straight. The best bonuses from KarmaMeter actions almost exclusively favor Evil choices while having Good alignment helps you diplomatically. Neutral gets neither.
*** Not entirely true... some of the evil choices also come with a drawback, frequently killing some amount of your [[strike:slaves]] citizens, while the neutral ones tend to give you a small benefit for no downside.

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* Averted in * ''[[VideoGame/GalacticCivilizations Galactic Civilizations II]]'': When II]]'':
** Averted when
your civilization chooses an alignment, all three alignments (good, neutral and evil) have bonuses. Some players even argue that the Neutral choice gives the ''best'' bonuses.
** Keyword here is ''choose''. The permanent alignment selection is a ScrewTheRulesIHaveMoney event that allows you to totally ignore your KarmaMeter and set your alignment to whatever you want as long as you can pay for it. But up till then, the game plays this straight. The best bonuses from KarmaMeter actions almost exclusively favor Evil choices while having Good alignment helps you diplomatically. Neutral gets neither.
*** Not entirely true... some of the evil choices also come with a drawback, frequently killing some amount of your [[strike:slaves]] citizens, while the neutral
ones tend to give you a small benefit for no downside.
15th Nov '15 11:47:17 AM LentilSandEater
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* The roguelike ''Omega'' has a pantheon of religions, two pointing to each of Law, Chaos and Religion. One of the neutral gods explicitly lampshades this due to the messages saying your choice was completely useless each time you advance in that religion. However, it does give a safe path to the endgame.

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* The roguelike ''Omega'' has a pantheon of religions, two pointing to each of Law, Chaos and Religion. One of the neutral gods explicitly lampshades names this due to the messages saying your choice was completely useless each time you advance in that religion. However, it does give a safe path to the endgame.



* Yahtzee regularly lampshades this in ''WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation'', even providing this page's quote. His main gripes are that it feels like he's being forced to play the game twice, and that the two sides are often mutually exclusive. He even calls out games he otherwise likes on this, such as ''inFAMOUS'' and its sequel.

to:

* Yahtzee regularly lampshades discusses this in ''WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation'', even providing this page's quote. His main gripes are that it feels like he's being forced to play the game twice, and that the two sides are often mutually exclusive. He even calls out games he otherwise likes on this, such as ''inFAMOUS'' and its sequel.
13th Oct '15 9:50:15 PM WillBGood
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** In ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'', the karma meter has virtually no effect on any part of the game until the ending, as [[ReputationMeter your reputation with various factions]] is far more important. Morality is essentially replaced by ideology, and the way that the whole system is set up makes it impossible to take a neutral stance. By the end of the game, whatever you have done up to that point has been done for the sake of a cause.

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** In ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'', the karma meter has virtually no effect on any part of the game until the ending, as [[ReputationMeter [[AllianceMeter your reputation with various factions]] is far more important. Morality is essentially replaced by ideology, and the way that the whole system is set up makes it impossible to take a neutral stance. By the end of the game, whatever you have done up to that point has been done for the sake of a cause.
17th Sep '15 9:26:55 AM MarkLungo
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-->--'''Gottfried Leibniz''', on {{Prussia}}'s neutrality in the GreatNorthernWar

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-->--'''Gottfried Leibniz''', on {{Prussia}}'s UsefulNotes/{{Prussia}}'s neutrality in the GreatNorthernWar
UsefulNotes/TheGreatNorthernWar



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