History Main / NeverBringAKnifeToAGunFight

21st Jul '16 2:36:33 PM SAMAS
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* Near the end of WWI the American army entered the western European combat theatre, and with them they brought the Winchester M1897 shotgun. Featuring no trigger disconnect and 6 rounds, two shotgunners working in tandem could clear an entire trench in minutes what would take hours for rifleman. The shotgun, now nicknamed the "Trench Sweeper", was so effective that on September 19th 1918 the German government protested its use and called for its outlawing with those in possession of the shotgun (or even its ammunition) executed.

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* Near the end of WWI the American army entered the western European combat theatre, and with them they brought the Winchester M1897 shotgun. Featuring no trigger disconnect and 6 rounds, two shotgunners working in tandem could clear an entire trench in minutes what would take hours for rifleman. The shotgun, now nicknamed the "Trench Sweeper", was so effective that on September 19th 1918 the German government protested its use and called for its outlawing with those in possession of the shotgun (or even its ammunition) executed.[[note]]Mind you, the Germans had already been using Flamethrowers and Phosphene Gas for some time by then.[[/note]]
16th Jul '16 10:46:50 AM Euodiachloris
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* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' kindly reminds you not to bring an army (or three) to a dragon-fight. Or, build the continent's most impressive, land-assault-proof castle and hole up in it when facing flame-throwing, aerial attacks. Conversely, don't bring a dragon to the environmental dream of guerilla warriors everywhere consisting of expansive deserts and mountains. Also: don't expect a normal fight when facing armies of the self-recruiting [[OurZombiesAreDifferent undead]]. You are also further advised to keep [[WeatherOfWar General Winter]] in mind when holding a war in [[GrimUpNorth The North]] and pack decent cloaks, coats, snowshoes and/or a trusty mule-train able to use and/or carry them all, rather than warhorses that can't do either. That is all.

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* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' kindly reminds you not to bring an army (or three) to a dragon-fight. Or, build the continent's most impressive, land-assault-proof castle and hole up in it when facing flame-throwing, aerial attacks. Conversely, it's recommended that you don't bring a dragon to the environmental dream of guerilla warriors everywhere consisting of expansive deserts and mountains. Also: Also, don't expect a normal fight when facing armies of the self-recruiting [[OurZombiesAreDifferent undead]]. You are also further advised to keep [[WeatherOfWar General Winter]] in mind when holding a war in [[GrimUpNorth The North]] and North]], as forgetting to pack decent cloaks, coats, snowshoes and/or a trusty mule-train able to use and/or carry them all, rather than warhorses that can't do either.which can't, is somewhat embarrassing. That is all.
12th Jul '16 12:02:44 AM RavenWilder
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* In ''Film/TheNightOfTheHunter'', Powell spends most of the movie as an almost inhumanly menacing force, with the threat of the switchblade in his pocket always present. In the film's climax, though, he has to face off an old lady who happens to own a shotgun, and is twice sent running.

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* In ''Film/TheNightOfTheHunter'', Powell spends most of the movie as an almost inhumanly menacing force, with the threat of the switchblade in his pocket always present. In the film's climax, though, he has to face off an old lady who happens to own a shotgun, and is twice sent running.
12th Jul '16 12:01:37 AM RavenWilder
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* In ''Film/TheNightOfTheHunter'', Powell spends most of the movie as an almost inhumanly menacing force, with the threat of the switchblade in his pocket always present. In the film's climax, though, he has to face off an old lady who happens to own a shotgun, and is twice sent running.
5th Jul '16 12:44:31 PM Sharysa
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* PlayedWith in [[{{WebOriginal/Takotsubo}} Takotsubo: The story of a superhero.]] Cord Cai and his fiance Roland Fujii are getting carjacked by Harry Lamont. Lamont has a gun and Roland has a knife, but Cord and Roland are ''[[MuggingTheMonster former gangsters]]''. Roland laughs in Lamont's face, refuses to give up his car, and basically taunts Lamont into shooting. Even after Roland gets shot, he [[NervesOfSteel just trucks through the pain]] and manages to cut Lamont before he runs away. Lamont technically "wins" since Roland dies, but he was clearly inexperienced at crime and he didn't even get the car like he planned. Then months later, the devastated Cord [[BestServedCold tracks him down through his gang connects and shoots him in the head.]]

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* PlayedWith in [[{{WebOriginal/Takotsubo}} ''[[{{WebOriginal/Takotsubo}} Takotsubo: The story of a superhero.]] ]]'' Cord Cai and his fiance Roland Fujii are getting carjacked by Harry Lamont. Lamont has a gun and Roland has a knife, Lamont... but Cord and Roland are ''[[MuggingTheMonster former gangsters]]''. Roland laughs in Lamont's face, refuses to give up his car, and basically [[LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt taunts Lamont into shooting. Even after shooting.]] After Roland gets ''does'' get shot, he [[NervesOfSteel just trucks through the pain]] pain, cuts Lamont, and manages to cut Lamont before he runs scares him into running away. Lamont technically "wins" since Roland dies, but he was clearly inexperienced at crime outclassed and he didn't even get the car like he planned. Then failed his actual goal of taking their car. And then months later, the devastated Cord [[BestServedCold tracks him Lamont down through his gang connects and shoots him in the head.]]
3rd Jul '16 4:19:10 PM JackG
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* ''Series/BestSeller''. A hitman stabs a witness in the middle of the sweatshop gunfight, so he doesn't have his gun in hand when he runs into Cleve.

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* ''Series/BestSeller''. A hitman stabs a witness in the middle of the sweatshop gunfight, so he doesn't have his gun pistol in his hand (it's still tucked in his belt) when he runs into Cleve.Cleve.
* Used for RealityEnsues in ''Film/JackReacher''. Before the final battle with the villains, Reacher calls for help from 'Gunny' Cash, the CoolOldGuy he met earlier who runs a gun range. Gunny turns up with a SniperRifle, only to hand Reacher a K-Bar knife, explaining that he's not going to entrust a rifle he owns to a stranger to help him kill a bunch of other strangers. As this means Reacher has to wait till the villains (one of whom is a master sniper) shoot at him first (to prove self defense), [[YouHaveGOTToBeKiddingMe he's not happy]]. Then during the subsequent shoot-out, Reacher drops the knife and has to resort to using a rock against a man shooting at him with an assault rifle.
30th Jun '16 4:37:08 PM Sharysa
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Added DiffLines:

* PlayedWith in [[{{WebOriginal/Takotsubo}} Takotsubo: The story of a superhero.]] Cord Cai and his fiance Roland Fujii are getting carjacked by Harry Lamont. Lamont has a gun and Roland has a knife, but Cord and Roland are ''[[MuggingTheMonster former gangsters]]''. Roland laughs in Lamont's face, refuses to give up his car, and basically taunts Lamont into shooting. Even after Roland gets shot, he [[NervesOfSteel just trucks through the pain]] and manages to cut Lamont before he runs away. Lamont technically "wins" since Roland dies, but he was clearly inexperienced at crime and he didn't even get the car like he planned. Then months later, the devastated Cord [[BestServedCold tracks him down through his gang connects and shoots him in the head.]]
15th Jun '16 6:14:38 PM Doug86
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* ''Film/WarHorse'' has a scene in WorldWarOne where the British cavalry appears to have caught the German encampment flatfooted, only to find that the Germans were prepared with a hidden defensive line of machine guns to mow them down. As a German officer says afterward, "Did you think we'd have a camp on open ground without it being defended?"

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* ''Film/WarHorse'' has a scene in WorldWarOne UsefulNotes/WorldWarI where the British cavalry appears to have caught the German encampment flatfooted, only to find that the Germans were prepared with a hidden defensive line of machine guns to mow them down. As a German officer says afterward, "Did you think we'd have a camp on open ground without it being defended?"



* Incredibly subverted in the Battle of Isbuscenskij, a minor skirmish during WorldWarII: an Italian cavalry regiment with a small artillery support (about 700 men, including officers) found itself surrounded by 2,500 Russians with dozens of machine guns and mortars, charged, and [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome routed the surprised enemy, killing 150, wounding 300 and capturing 600 of them]].

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* Incredibly subverted in the Battle of Isbuscenskij, a minor skirmish during WorldWarII: UsefulNotes/WorldWarII: an Italian cavalry regiment with a small artillery support (about 700 men, including officers) found itself surrounded by 2,500 Russians with dozens of machine guns and mortars, charged, and [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome routed the surprised enemy, killing 150, wounding 300 and capturing 600 of them]].
4th Jun '16 10:22:39 PM chc232323
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** What many people, including above, miss about the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill Tueller Drill]] is that 21 feet, or whatever, is the distance at which a person with a melee weapon becomes a threat to a gunman. Somewhat later on, people added the notion of the knife "winning" from some distance below that, which is very far from reality: someone with a gun is a lethal threat from maximum effective range down to 0.0m. Essentially, the gunman can shoot an assailant at ''any'' range, including point-blank, with closer shots being ''more'' debilitating due to the greater bullet penetration. The distance measurements are more about disabling the assailant without getting stabbed at all, and the actual chance of the assailant both executing a stab and not taking severe return fire afterwards. The human body is all but guaranteed to retain motor functions to complete draw-and-shoot even after a hit, but they are never ones you'd want to bet on. In other words, there are techniques to defend against a knife-wielding runner-in, but no sane martial training suggests knife-wielding running-in as a viable method of countering a firearm. [[TakingYouWithMe More than once in one's life, anyways.]]

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** What many people, including above, miss about the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill Tueller Drill]] is that at about 21 feet, or whatever, is the distance at which feet (6 meters) a person with a melee weapon knife becomes a threat to a gunman. trained shooter with a holstered handgun. Somewhat later on, people added the notion of the knife "winning" from some distance below that, "winning," which is very far from reality: someone with a gun wrong. A shooter is a lethal threat from maximum effective range down to 0.0m. Essentially, the The gunman can shoot an assailant at ''any'' range, including point-blank, with closer shots being ''more'' more debilitating due to the greater bullet penetration. penetration and better shot placement. The distance measurements are more "21-foot rule" is about disabling the assailant without ''without getting stabbed at all, injured''. It is very unlikely that a stab wound, even one that causes an injury that later proves fatal, will incapacitate a shooter and stop them from emptying the magazine into their attacker. The drill was used as an experiment to quantify the danger zone, and the actual chance conclusion is that at about 21', with a lot of the assailant both executing variability, a stab and not taking severe return fire afterwards. The human body typical trained individual with a handgun in a hip holster who is all but guaranteed to retain motor functions to complete draw-and-shoot even after suddenly charged by a hit, but they are never ones you'd want to bet on. In other words, there are techniques to defend against a physically fit knife-wielding runner-in, but no sane martial training suggests knife-wielding running-in assailant is at serious risk of being wounded before they can use their handgun to take out the attacker. Change any of the above, and the outcomes change, though insights gleaned from the drill still hold.
*** For example, the Tueller Drill assumes a holstered handgun worn at the hip. It takes longer to draw from a concealed holster, extending the distance the knife-wielder closes before being shot. A drawn firearm considerably shortens the time the knife-wielder has to move, and a weapon at a ready position (such
as those taken by trained soldiers and law enforcement) can be brought to fire in a viable method fraction of countering a firearm. [[TakingYouWithMe More than once in one's life, anyways.]]second.
*** Again, a point about the Tueller Drill: the shooter at point blank is still likely to kill the knife-wielder after being stabbed. Being gunned down to wound someone or inflict a MutualKill is not synonymous with "winning" or "having an advantage."



** Also, close combat weapons could actually be superior to guns in certain environments, such as close quarter battles inside buildings. There's a reason why soldiers involved in urban combat like to bring weapons like knives and hatchets.

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** Also, close combat weapons could actually be superior to guns in certain environments, have situational advantages, such taking out an unaware sentry silently. These situational advantages, their role as close quarter battles inside buildings. There's tools, and occasional desperation when a reason gun goes down or ammo is spent are the reasons why modern soldiers involved in urban combat like to bring weapons like knives knives, entrenching tools, and hatchets.hatchets, but make no mistake, the firearm is the primary weapon. See Tueller Drill, above.
19th Apr '16 1:37:48 AM erforce
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* IndianaJones does this several times. For example...

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* IndianaJones ''Franchise/IndianaJones'' does this several times. For example...



* ''Literature/WarHorse'' has a scene in WorldWarOne where the British cavalry appears to have caught the German encampment flatfooted, only to find that the Germans were prepared with a hidden defensive line of machine guns to mow them down. As a German officer says afterward, "Did you think we'd have a camp on open ground without it being defended?"

to:

* ''Literature/WarHorse'' ''Film/WarHorse'' has a scene in WorldWarOne where the British cavalry appears to have caught the German encampment flatfooted, only to find that the Germans were prepared with a hidden defensive line of machine guns to mow them down. As a German officer says afterward, "Did you think we'd have a camp on open ground without it being defended?"
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