History Main / NayTheist

6th Dec '16 1:04:02 PM rafi
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* In the ''Manga/SaintSeiya Episode G'' manga, while not denying the existence of gods (as he is fighting them at that moment and he technically works for a goddess) Leo Aiolia states that (paraphrasing here) "The notion that mortals should bow to gods and always be defeated by them is a sad delusion created by the gods themselves" and that "they are not worthy of worship".

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* ''Anime/OccultAcademy'': "[[CatchPhrase I hate the occult!]]"
* In the ''Manga/SaintSeiya Episode G'' ''Manga/SaintSeiyaEpisodeG'' manga, while not denying the existence of gods (as he is fighting them at that moment and he technically works for a goddess) Leo Aiolia states that (paraphrasing here) "The notion that mortals should bow to gods and always be defeated by them is a sad delusion created by the gods themselves" and that "they are not worthy of worship".



* Battler from ''VisualNovel/UminekoWhenTheyCry'' is engaged in a very involved argument with a witch that he said doesn't exist. Her killing him, bringing him back to life, etc. has nothing to do with the issue. She eventually gets sneaky in her pursuit of his belief. And sadistic. Mostly sadistic. He verges somewhat into FlatEarthAtheist territory because his debate is literally over her existence - he does not, in fact, accept it. [[spoiler:Although he does swing in this direction in later arcs. At least enough to accept that Beatrice has enough of an existence to have motives]]. [[spoiler:And he switches sides when he winds up as Endless Sorcerer]].



* ''Anime/OccultAcademy'': "[[CatchPhrase I hate the occult!]]"
* Similarly, Battler from ''VisualNovel/UminekoWhenTheyCry'' is engaged in a very involved argument with a witch that he said doesn't exist. Her killing him, bringing him back to life, etc. has nothing to do with the issue. She eventually gets sneaky in her pursuit of his belief. And sadistic. Mostly sadistic. He verges somewhat into FlatEarthAtheist territory because his debate is literally over her existence - he does not, in fact, accept it. [[spoiler:Although he does swing in this direction in later arcs. At least enough to accept that Beatrice has enough of an existence to have motives]]. [[spoiler:And he switches sides when he winds up as Endless Sorcerer]].
6th Dec '16 11:46:51 AM Kakai
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* ''Literature/TheTraitorSonCycle'': The Red Knight's favourite saying is "God doesn't give a f***"; hence why he doesn't worship Him unless he has to show up in a church for PR.
30th Nov '16 6:56:41 PM Fireblood
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** ''BookOfExodus'' has the [[NefariousPharaoh Pharaoh]] behaving like this. He acknowledged the existence of God. He even went so far as to admits that he sinned, but he still refused to do what God said and let His people go. [[TooDumbToLive It doesn't end well for him]] when he attempted to chase Moses between the sea...



** Note that the last line goes as far as to claim that anyone who doesn't worship any gods (or anything that isn't the Abrahamic deity, since it supposes that everyone inherently knows that other gods are fake) must be worshiping something else by default, [[{{Narcissist}} be it themselves]], [[{{Greed}} a material element ]], [[TheHedonist or pure pleasure]]. Some real life theists actually believe this is necessarily the case for atheists, even though these three ways of living just mentioned are not a vital pillar for lack of religious belief by itself, nor a necessary consequence of it. Others have argued this does not refer to atheism, which at the time was less well known, but rather impiety.

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** Note that the last line goes as far as to claim that anyone who doesn't worship any gods (or anything that isn't the Abrahamic deity, since it supposes that everyone inherently knows that other gods are fake) must be worshiping something else by default, [[{{Narcissist}} be it themselves]], [[{{Greed}} a material element ]], [[TheHedonist or pure pleasure]]. Some real life theists actually believe this is necessarily the case for atheists, even though these three ways of living just mentioned are not a vital pillar for lack of religious belief by itself, nor a necessary consequence of it. Others have argued this does not refer to atheism, which at the time was less well known, but rather impiety.impiety or the disbelief in the Abrahamic God alone.
** ''BookOfExodus'' has the [[NefariousPharaoh Pharaoh]] behaving like this. He acknowledged the existence of God. He even went so far as to admit that he sinned, but he still refused to do what God said and let His people go. [[TooDumbToLive It doesn't end well for him]] when he attempted to chase Moses between the sea... There is also a verse saying God "hardened Pharoah's heart" to not let the Hebrews go however, so not all of it was within his control.
30th Nov '16 8:09:03 AM Mhazard
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Added DiffLines:

** ''BookOfExodus'' has the [[NefariousPharaoh Pharaoh]] behaving like this. He acknowledged the existence of God. He even went so far as to admits that he sinned, but he still refused to do what God said and let His people go. [[TooDumbToLive It doesn't end well for him]] when he attempted to chase Moses between the sea...
25th Nov '16 8:32:41 PM KhymChanur
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->''"I don't hold with paddlin' with the Occult," said Granny firmly. "Once you start paddlin' with the Occult you start believing in Spirits, and when you start believing in Spirits you start believing in Demons, and then before you know where you are you're believing in gods. And then you're in trouble."\\
"But all them things exist," said Nanny Ogg.\\

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->''"I don't hold with paddlin' with the Occult," said Granny firmly. "Once you start paddlin' with the Occult you start believing in Spirits, and when you start believing in Spirits you start believing in Demons, and then before you know where you are you're believing in gods. And then you're in trouble."\\
"\\\
"But all them things exist," said Nanny Ogg.\\\\\
13th Nov '16 7:25:30 PM Fireblood
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*** Similarly, The Believers of the Source (or "Godsmen" as they're more popularly called) believe that gods are simply the beings that have reached the apex of the [[LaserGuidedKarma Karmic Wheel]] - godhood is their "payoff" after having reincarnated enough and lived "good" lives throughout. Thus, while the Godsmen won't deny gods exist, and many of them worship gods as an ideal and as a way to respect those who have reached the apex of existence, every one of them aspire to the same height and don't believe gods are any intrinsically special.

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*** Similarly, The Believers of the Source (or "Godsmen" as they're more popularly called) believe that gods are simply the beings that have reached the apex of the [[LaserGuidedKarma Karmic Wheel]] - godhood is their "payoff" after having reincarnated enough and lived "good" lives throughout. Thus, while the Godsmen won't deny gods exist, and many of them worship gods as an ideal and as a way to respect those who have reached the apex of existence, every one of them aspire to the same height and don't believe gods are any anything intrinsically special.special (this bears a close resemblance to the beliefs of many Buddhists).
13th Nov '16 5:27:27 PM oknazevad
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* The ''TabletopGame/{{Eberron}}'' setting hasn't really answered the question if gods actually exist or not, and many of the religions don't center around gods. The Blood of Vol believe that the gods cursed mortals with death, while the Silver Flame is based around the remains of a paladin's sacrifice, the Elven religions are ancestor worship in one form or another, and the Path of Light is a philosophical religion. The followers of the Becoming God ''know for a fact'' that their god does not exist, because they're ''building'' him. The spells of their clerics work just fine anyway.
* ''Literature/{{Dragonlance}}'' has Mystics and Primal Sorcerers that arose during the early Fifth Age. Mystics draw their power from the energy of all living things on Krynn and their own soul, and Sorcerers draw their power from all non-living matter on Krynn. A large part of the flavor for Mystics is that because they draw power from a strong faith in themselves, they can not worship a deity because worshiping a deity is drawing power from outside of themselves. Sorcerers technically can choose to follow a deity, but many do not because they arose during a time when there were no deities.
* Many people in the ''TabletopGame/DragonMech'' D20 setting have noticed that the gods either couldn't or didn't really do a hell of a lot to stop the moon falling and have more or less given up on religion as a result. Since the gods are currently under siege by the [[EldritchAbomination lunar gods]], they haven't been helping to correct this, because they can only intermittently spare power for their clerics and paladins, and their most powerful and devout worshipers rarely get to take advantage of DeathIsCheap because they really need as many righteous dead as possible to help them fight the lunar gods.
* The demon-lord Sertrous from the 3.5e supplement ''Elder Evils'' gave away the secret of how to access divine magic without worshipping the gods.

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* ** The ''TabletopGame/{{Eberron}}'' setting hasn't really answered the question if gods actually exist or not, and many of the religions don't center around gods. The Blood of Vol believe that the gods cursed mortals with death, while the Silver Flame is based around the remains of a paladin's sacrifice, the Elven religions are ancestor worship in one form or another, and the Path of Light is a philosophical religion. The followers of the Becoming God ''know for a fact'' that their god does not exist, because they're ''building'' him. The spells of their clerics work just fine anyway.
* ** ''Literature/{{Dragonlance}}'' has Mystics and Primal Sorcerers that arose during the early Fifth Age. Mystics draw their power from the energy of all living things on Krynn and their own soul, and Sorcerers draw their power from all non-living matter on Krynn. A large part of the flavor for Mystics is that because they draw power from a strong faith in themselves, they can not worship a deity because worshiping a deity is drawing power from outside of themselves. Sorcerers technically can choose to follow a deity, but many do not because they arose during a time when there were no deities.
** In the ''ForgottenRealms'' it's a pretty bad idea to not worship anything, since you will be condemned to the Wall of the Faithless after death. The sheer number trapped in the Wall shows that this doesn't stop people from denying the gods worship.
*** One notable nay-theist in this setting is Artemis Entreri, whose mother was raped by a priest of Selune while his neighbors in the Slums of Memnon were exploited by the rest of that Order. He knows the gods exist, but he sees them as powerful beings who pretend to be good or lawful while being petty monsters no better than anyone else. Though it should be noted that this backstory contradicts the canon that ''Forgotten Realms'' deities do not tolerate deviant behavior, and any priest of a good deity who commits an evil deed will have his powers stripped from him until he atones. It was implied in ''Road of the Patriarch'' that in Entreri's case, the worship of Selune had been usurped by an evil deity posing as Selune, possibly Ibrandul or Shar masquerading as Ibrandul.
*** Much like Artemis Entreri, many of the ancient Netherese believed that gods were simply very powerful beings, and any sufficiently powerful creature could effectively become one. When Karsus, one of the most powerful wizards in Netheril, put this theory to the test by stealing the power of the god of Magic itself, he accidentally destroyed almost the entire empire by dropping their flying cities out of the sky.
** In the ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'' setting, most of the Athar faction don't deny the existence of gods and other Powers, they just think beings like Zeus or Odin are merely powerful planar beings - hence their motto, "The gods are frauds." They are open to the idea of a non-personified "Great Unknown," however. Their former leader, Factol Terrance, was a cleric of the goddess Mishakal (from the ''Literature/{{Dragonlance}}'' setting) who simply woke up one day and realized he was no longer awed by his deity's power; he knew for a fact that she existed, but no longer believed she was genuinely divine. The Athar are based around the giant pillar supporting Sigil, the City of Doors, at the very center of the Concordant Plane of the Outlands (said to be the hub around which the multiverse revolves), a place of such strong AntiMagic that even deities' powers are nullified. A perfect place to philosophize and experiment without being disturbed by irate gods, in other words.
*** Similarly, The Believers of the Source (or "Godsmen" as they're more popularly called) believe that gods are simply the beings that have reached the apex of the [[LaserGuidedKarma Karmic Wheel]] - godhood is their "payoff" after having reincarnated enough and lived "good" lives throughout. Thus, while the Godsmen won't deny gods exist, and many of them worship gods as an ideal and as a way to respect those who have reached the apex of existence, every one of them aspire to the same height and don't believe gods are any intrinsically special.
*** Half-giants (from an open content sourcebook) believe in the gods, but generally don't consider them important.
* Many people in the ''TabletopGame/DragonMech'' D20 setting have noticed that the gods either couldn't or didn't really do a hell of a lot to stop the moon falling and have more or less given up on religion as a result. Since the gods are currently under siege by the [[EldritchAbomination lunar gods]], they haven't been helping to correct this, because they can only intermittently spare power for their clerics and paladins, and their most powerful and devout worshipers rarely get to take advantage of DeathIsCheap because they really need as many righteous dead as possible to help them fight the lunar gods.
* The demon-lord Sertrous from the 3.5e supplement ''Elder Evils'' gave away the secret of how to access divine magic without worshipping the
gods.



* In ''ForgottenRealms'' it's a pretty bad idea to not worship anything, since you will be condemned to the Wall of the Faithless after death. The sheer number trapped in the Wall shows that this doesn't stop people from denying the gods worship.
** One notable nay-theist in this setting is Artemis Entreri, whose mother was raped by a priest of Selune while his neighbors in the Slums of Memnon were exploited by the rest of that Order. He knows the gods exist, but he sees them as powerful beings who pretend to be good or lawful while being petty monsters no better than anyone else. Though it should be noted that this backstory contradicts the canon that ''Forgotten Realms'' deities do not tolerate deviant behavior, and any priest of a good deity who commits an evil deed will have his powers stripped from him until he atones. It was implied in ''Road of the Patriarch'' that in Entreri's case, the worship of Selune had been usurped by an evil deity posing as Selune, possibly Ibrandul or Shar masquerading as Ibrandul.
** Much like Artemis Entreri, many of the ancient Netherese believed that gods were simply very powerful beings, and any sufficiently powerful creature could effectively become one. When Karsus, one of the most powerful wizards in Netheril, put this theory to the test by stealing the power of the god of Magic itself, he accidentally destroyed almost the entire empire by dropping their flying cities out of the sky.



* Very common in ''TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness'', since being a supernatural being gives a person a certain perspective that induces natural skepticism towards the existence and/or worthiness of human-worshipped gods. Exactly how tends to vary depending on the supernatural race in question.

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* Very common in ''TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness'', ''TabletopGame/ChroniclesOfDarkness'', since being a supernatural being gives a person a certain perspective that induces natural skepticism towards the existence and/or worthiness of human-worshipped gods. Exactly how tends to vary depending on the supernatural race in question.



* In the ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'' setting, most of the Athar faction don't deny the existence of gods and other Powers, they just think beings like Zeus or Odin are merely powerful planar beings - hence their motto, "The gods are frauds." They are open to the idea of a non-personified "Great Unknown," however. Their former leader, Factol Terrance, was a cleric of the goddess Mishakal (from the ''Literature/{{Dragonlance}}'' setting) who simply woke up one day and realized he was no longer awed by his deity's power; he knew for a fact that she existed, but no longer believed she was genuinely divine. The Athar are based around the giant pillar supporting Sigil, the City of Doors, at the very center of the Concordant Plane of the Outlands (said to be the hub around which the multiverse revolves), a place of such strong AntiMagic that even deities' powers are nullified. A perfect place to philosophize and experiment without being disturbed by irate gods, in other words.
** Similarly, The Believers of the Source (or "Godsmen" as they're more popularly called) believe that gods are simply the beings that have reached the apex of the [[LaserGuidedKarma Karmic Wheel]] - godhood is their "payoff" after having reincarnated enough and lived "good" lives throughout. Thus, while the Godsmen won't deny gods exist, and many of them worship gods as an ideal and as a way to respect those who have reached the apex of existence, every one of them aspire to the same height and don't believe gods are any intrinsically special.
** Half-giants (from an open content sourcebook) believe in the gods, but generally don't consider them important.
9th Oct '16 8:48:44 AM ImpudentInfidel
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* ''Literature/CiaphasCain'' (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!) of ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' is an odd version of this. It's not that he doesn't venerate the Emperor, Cain just feels so insignificant that he's sure the Emperor has better things to do than pay attention to him, so Cain doesn't bother with prayers for help.

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* ''Literature/CiaphasCain'' (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!) of ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' is an odd version of this. It's not that he doesn't venerate the Emperor, Cain just feels so insignificant that he's sure the Emperor has better things to do than pay attention to him, so Cain doesn't bother with prayers for help. While he doesn't attend religious services if he can avoid it (he considers it "Emperor-bothering"), he has also shown himself to be incredibly devout in other ways and knows the works of the saints well enough to spot a QuoteMine.
8th Oct '16 7:59:13 PM Berrenta
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* Gene Ray of ''WebSite/TimeCube'' fame seems to believe in the existence of god(s), but considers anyone who worships any deity [[AGodAmI other than himself]] to be stupid and evil.
-->'''"I AM WISER THAN ANY DAMN MAN OR GOD WHO EVER EXISTED. IF THE HALF AND HALF CO-CREATED JESUS RETURNS TO EARTH, [[RageAgainstTheHeavens I WILL PERSONALLY KILL THE BASTARD MYSELF]]."'''
6th Sep '16 5:05:06 AM Theriocephalus
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* Literature/{{Discworld}}

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* Literature/{{Discworld}} ''Literature/{{Discworld}}''



** Havelock Vetinari is extremely intelligent and fully aware of the Disc's deities, but [[InVinoVeritas after a few drinks]] in ''Discworld/UnseenAcademicals'' stated that "If there is any kind of supreme being, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."[[note]]He came to this belief as a young man who watches as a mother otter feeds her pup a dead salmon and her laid eggs. Mother and child designed to feast upon mother and child.[[/note]]

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** Havelock Vetinari is extremely intelligent and fully aware of the Disc's deities, but [[InVinoVeritas after a few drinks]] in ''Discworld/UnseenAcademicals'' stated that "If there is any kind of supreme being, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."[[note]]He came to this belief as a young man who watches watched as a mother otter feeds her pup a dead salmon and her laid eggs. Mother and child designed to feast upon mother and child.[[/note]]



---> '''[[TheFundamentalist Grag]]]:''' Believe? No. I just know it exists.

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---> '''[[TheFundamentalist Grag]]]:''' Grag]]:''' Believe? No. I just know it exists.
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