History Main / MusicalWorldHypotheses

18th Aug '17 8:15:44 AM ChaoticNovelist
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** Interestingly, something of a variant in that the characters often seem only half-aware of the content of one another's songs - most prominently when Buffy completely fails to notice that Giles, in the room with her, is singing a lament about how he is standing in her way ("Did you just say something?"), but also for instance when Xander and Anya complete a song about not telling each other about their flaws and concerns about their upcoming marriage and only afterwards seem to realize that they just told one another anyway.
*** Nah, Buffy just wasn't paying attention
4th Aug '17 3:49:12 AM SeptimusHeap
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* One ''Series/SaturdayNightLive'' skit, ZacEfron plays his signature character, the star of the ''Film/HighSchoolMusical'' series, giving a speech to his former classmates after he'd spent a year at college. He crushes their illusions (and lack of MediumAwareness) by explaining that the music seems to stop after graduation, and spontaneous singing just gets you funny looks. (So it's the alternate universe interpretation combined with LikeRealityUnlessNoted.)

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* One ''Series/SaturdayNightLive'' skit, ZacEfron Creator/ZacEfron plays his signature character, the star of the ''Film/HighSchoolMusical'' series, giving a speech to his former classmates after he'd spent a year at college. He crushes their illusions (and lack of MediumAwareness) by explaining that the music seems to stop after graduation, and spontaneous singing just gets you funny looks. (So it's the alternate universe interpretation combined with LikeRealityUnlessNoted.)
11th Jul '17 7:42:30 PM dsneybuf
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* ''Theatre/TheWiz'' seems to follow the Alternate Universe hypothesis for most of the play's numbers. In the screen versions, "You Can't Win" (which didn't appear in the original Broadway production) provides a Digetic example, while songs that Dorothy sings when she has the set all to herself appear staged in a way that suggest that they occur All In Her Head. [[Film/TheWiz The movie]] also uses "The Feeling That We Have" as a Digetic example.

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* ''Theatre/TheWiz'' seems to follow the Alternate Universe hypothesis for most of the play's numbers. In the screen versions, "You Can't Win" (which didn't appear in the original Broadway production) provides a Digetic Diegetic example, while songs that Dorothy sings when she has the set all to herself appear staged in a way that suggest that they occur All In Her Head. [[Film/TheWiz The movie]] also uses "The Feeling That We Have" as a Digetic Diegetic example.
7th Jul '17 8:17:10 AM DragonRanger
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* '''The AlternateUniverse Hypothesis''': The musical is set in an alternate world, or magic has been worked on the ordinary world, in which [[CrowdSong people]] really do burst into [[SpontaneousChoreography spontaneous song and dance]]. If the world has always been this way, singing is simply a normal and commonplace form of human communication in this universe; if the world is not normally this way, expect it to be some sort of an uncontrollable compulsion to sing at emotional moments, perhaps induced by the actions of TheMusicMeister. In this interpretation, since the singing is an in-universe phenomenon, the characters are aware of the songs and may explicitly comment on their musical style or specific lyrics; there may be characters who don't like singing and refuse to participate or try to stop others from starting to sing when the music begins to swell; or characters may say things in song that they wouldn't otherwise or regard statements that are sung differently from spoken statements. This is most common in comedic works or as a [[MusicalEpisode one-off occurrence]] in a normally non-musical world, since it [[LampshadeHanging draws attention to the weirdess of the concept]]. In particular, almost all {{parodies}} of musicals treat them as being AlternateUniverse, even when the musical being parodied is not.

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* '''The Musical AlternateUniverse Hypothesis''': The musical is set in an alternate world, or magic has been worked on the ordinary world, in which [[CrowdSong people]] really do burst into [[SpontaneousChoreography spontaneous song and dance]]. If the world has always been this way, singing is simply a normal and commonplace form of human communication in this universe; if the world is not normally this way, expect it to be some sort of an uncontrollable compulsion to sing at emotional moments, perhaps induced by the actions of TheMusicMeister. In this interpretation, since the singing is an in-universe phenomenon, the characters are aware of the songs and may explicitly comment on their musical style or specific lyrics; there may be characters who don't like singing and refuse to participate or try to stop others from starting to sing when the music begins to swell; or characters may say things in song that they wouldn't otherwise or regard statements that are sung differently from spoken statements. This is most common in comedic works or as a [[MusicalEpisode one-off occurrence]] in a normally non-musical world, since it [[LampshadeHanging draws attention to the weirdess of the concept]]. In particular, almost all {{parodies}} of musicals treat them as being AlternateUniverse, even when the musical being parodied is not.



** ''Disney/{{Moana}}'', for once, calls attention to its Alternate Universe nature. "Where You Are" and "How Far I'll Go" pass without comment, but Maui continues humming "You're Welcome" to himself even after the song is over, and "Shiny" is explicitly done "in song form" with Tamatoa asking the heroes if they liked it afterward. Maui also comments at one point that if Moana breaks into song, he's going to throw up. "We Know The Way", on the other hand, is All in Moana's Head as a spirit vision she sees.

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** ''Disney/{{Moana}}'', for once, calls attention to its Alternate Musical Universe nature. "Where You Are" and "How Far I'll Go" pass without comment, but Maui continues humming "You're Welcome" to himself even after the song is over, and "Shiny" is explicitly done "in song form" with Tamatoa asking the heroes if they liked it afterward. Maui also comments at one point that if Moana breaks into song, he's going to throw up. "We Know The Way", on the other hand, is may be All in Moana's Head as she's given a spirit vision she sees.of her ancestors; but then again, it's a Musical Universe so her ancestors might well have actually sung that.


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* ''Series/TheFlash2014''/''Series/Supergirl2015'' MusicalEpisode "Duet" is a Musical Universe via outside influence, as the heroes are trapped in a musical dream world. But since the dream is set in a 40s/50s night club, this allows some songs to be Diagetic as well. The final song, "Running Back to You", is %100 Diagetic, as it takes place after escaping the dream world and Barry is inspired by the ordeal to prep a song to sing to Iris.
6th Jul '17 10:16:51 PM DragonRanger
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* ''Disney/TheGreatMouseDetective'' is pretty much Diegetic. There are three songs in the film (not including the reprise of "Goodbye So Soon" sung over the end credits) and they all occur within the film's story. One is "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind". The other two songs are a stage show ("Let Me Be Good to You") and a song Ratigan composed as a farewell to Basil, which is played on a phonograph ("Goodbye So Soon").
** The first, "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind," is the VillainSong. It is a bit harder to determine. One thing is sure, it is not an Inner Monologue or the character speaking instead of singing: he mentions being singing, accompanies himself with a harp at one point, and the song is even interrupted and then resumes with Professor Ratigan telling his chorus of {{Mooks}} "And now, as you were singing..." It ''could'' still be diegetic: the song itself - a rather elaborate, off-the-cuff number - works within the context of the story because Professor Ratigan is just the sort of egotistical weirdo who would randomly stage a Broadway-style song and dance routine about how awesome he is. However, the books seem to answer to him in song as a natural thing, even though it's clear ''they'' couldn't possibly practiced. And the harp mentioned earlier is also the only instrument seen at all; the orchestral background music's origin remains unknown.



* ''{{Disney/Pocahontas}}'' falls right under the 'Adaptation' label. "Colours of the Wind" notably is a representation of Pocahontas showing John Smith how great nature is, "Mine Mine Mine" is the settlers digging for gold and "If I Never Knew You" is really a conversation between John and Pocahontas.

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* ** ''Disney/TheGreatMouseDetective'' is pretty much Diegetic. There are three songs in the film (not including the reprise of "Goodbye So Soon" sung over the end credits) and they all occur within the film's story. One is "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind". The other two songs are a stage show ("Let Me Be Good to You") and a song Ratigan composed as a farewell to Basil, which is played on a phonograph ("Goodbye So Soon").
*** The first, "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind," is the VillainSong. It is a bit harder to determine. One thing is sure, it is not an Inner Monologue or the character speaking instead of singing: he mentions being singing, accompanies himself with a harp at one point, and the song is even interrupted and then resumes with Professor Ratigan telling his chorus of {{Mooks}} "And now, as you were singing..." It ''could'' still be diegetic: the song itself - a rather elaborate, off-the-cuff number - works within the context of the story because Professor Ratigan is just the sort of egotistical weirdo who would randomly stage a Broadway-style song and dance routine about how awesome he is. However, the books seem to answer to him in song as a natural thing, even though it's clear ''they'' couldn't possibly practiced. And the harp mentioned earlier is also the only instrument seen at all; the orchestral background music's origin remains unknown.
**
''{{Disney/Pocahontas}}'' falls right under the 'Adaptation' label. "Colours of the Wind" notably is a representation of Pocahontas showing John Smith how great nature is, "Mine Mine Mine" is the settlers digging for gold and "If I Never Knew You" is really a conversation between John and Pocahontas.
6th Jul '17 10:14:50 PM DragonRanger
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* ''Disney/{{Frozen}}'' might be Adaption for some of the songs: Anna clearly did spend many years asking Elsa to come out and play during "Do You Want to Build a Snowman" and did argue with her about returning to Arendelle and the eternal winter she'd caused in the reprise of "For the First Time in Forever", even if there was no actual occurrence of singing in either case. Anna's duet with Hans, "Love Is An Open Door", probably would be this too, since the song involved Hans charming Anna into falling for him and presumably in actuality was done without singing. "Let It Go" is probably All in Elsa's Head, since Elsa is all by herself at the time of the song, meaning that it's probably an inner monologue. The original "For the First Time in Forever" could be All In Their Heads as well: none of the servants take notice of Anna moving some of the salad plates, nor does anyone pay any attention to Anna singing as she travels down the railing of the bridge to the castle against the arriving guests. For Elsa's solo in that song, it could be argued that all of her lines, except for "Tell the guards to open up the gates!" are an internal monologue instead. "Fixer Upper" also counts, as the trolls clearly prepared Anna and Kristoff for a wedding.
** "Frozen Heart" and "Reindeer(s) Are Better Than People" are the only songs in the film that are diegetic; the former could be a song that the ice harvesters frequently sing while working while the latter serves as Kristoff's lullaby to Sven.



* ''{{Disney/Pocahontas}}'' falls right under the 'Adaptation' label. "Colours of the Wind" notably is a representation of Pocahontas showing John Smith how great nature is, "Mine Mine Mine" is the settlers digging for gold and "If I Never Knew You" is really a conversation between John and Pocahontas.


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* ''{{Disney/Pocahontas}}'' falls right under the 'Adaptation' label. "Colours of the Wind" notably is a representation of Pocahontas showing John Smith how great nature is, "Mine Mine Mine" is the settlers digging for gold and "If I Never Knew You" is really a conversation between John and Pocahontas.


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** ''Disney/{{Frozen}}'' might be Adaption for some of the songs: Anna clearly did spend many years asking Elsa to come out and play during "Do You Want to Build a Snowman" and did argue with her about returning to Arendelle and the eternal winter she'd caused in the reprise of "For the First Time in Forever", even if there was no actual occurrence of singing in either case. Anna's duet with Hans, "Love Is An Open Door", probably would be this too, since the song involved Hans charming Anna into falling for him and presumably in actuality was done without singing. "Let It Go" is probably All in Elsa's Head, since Elsa is all by herself at the time of the song, meaning that it's probably an inner monologue. The original "For the First Time in Forever" could be All In Their Heads as well: none of the servants take notice of Anna moving some of the salad plates, nor does anyone pay any attention to Anna singing as she travels down the railing of the bridge to the castle against the arriving guests. For Elsa's solo in that song, it could be argued that all of her lines, except for "Tell the guards to open up the gates!" are an internal monologue instead. "Fixer Upper" also counts, as the trolls clearly prepared Anna and Kristoff for a wedding.
*** "Frozen Heart" and "Reindeer(s) Are Better Than People" are the only songs in the film that are diegetic; the former could be a song that the ice harvesters frequently sing while working while the latter serves as Kristoff's lullaby to Sven.
** ''Disney/{{Moana}}'', for once, calls attention to its Alternate Universe nature. "Where You Are" and "How Far I'll Go" pass without comment, but Maui continues humming "You're Welcome" to himself even after the song is over, and "Shiny" is explicitly done "in song form" with Tamatoa asking the heroes if they liked it afterward. Maui also comments at one point that if Moana breaks into song, he's going to throw up. "We Know The Way", on the other hand, is All in Moana's Head as a spirit vision she sees.
25th Jun '17 1:55:51 PM nombretomado
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* ''HedwigAndTheAngryInch'' is a rare example of a Diegetic stage musical.

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* ''HedwigAndTheAngryInch'' ''Theatre/HedwigAndTheAngryInch'' is a rare example of a Diegetic stage musical.
5th Jun '17 5:34:45 PM JoeMerl
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-->'''Fan:''' [[LampshadeHanging And how is it possible that you guys can sing the exact same song, at the exact same time, in perfect unison without any kind of rehearsal or script involved...and ''WHEN YOU ARE IN DIFFERENT PLACES AS WELL?'' IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!]]

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-->'''Fan:''' [[LampshadeHanging And how is it possible possible]] that you guys can sing the exact same song, at the exact same time, in perfect unison without any kind of rehearsal or script involved...and ''WHEN ''[[DistantDuet WHEN YOU ARE IN DIFFERENT PLACES AS WELL?'' WELL]]?'' IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!]]IMPOSSIBLE!



** One could argue that it's a weird mixture of Digetic and Alternate Universe: this is not a world where breaking into song is normal, and the characters explicitly do not prepare in advance or know what their songs will be about. Nevertheless when Chris ordains it, music seems to come out of nowhere and the characters are able to [[MusicalisInterruptus spontaneously sing]] [[SpontaneousChoreography and dance]] with only an occasional broken rhyme or confused look.

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** One could argue that it's a weird mixture of Digetic and Alternate Universe: this is not a world where breaking into song is normal, and the characters explicitly do not prepare in advance or know what their songs will be about. Nevertheless [[ScrewTheRulesIMakeThem when Chris ordains it, it]], music seems to come comes out of nowhere and the characters are able to [[MusicalisInterruptus spontaneously sing]] [[SpontaneousChoreography and dance]] with only an occasional broken rhyme or confused look.
5th Jun '17 5:32:02 PM JoeMerl
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[[folder:Fan Works]]
* In ''Fanfic/CandyForYourThoughts,'' a fanfic of ''WesternAnimation/TotalDramaWorldTour'' (see below), a fan actually contacts the cast during the Aftermath episode and accuses the whole show of being scripted.
-->'''Fan:''' [[LampshadeHanging And how is it possible that you guys can sing the exact same song, at the exact same time, in perfect unison without any kind of rehearsal or script involved...and ''WHEN YOU ARE IN DIFFERENT PLACES AS WELL?'' IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!]]
-->'''Geoff:''' [[HandWave ...'Cause the music's from the heart, bro]]...[[ThePowerOfRock it's from the heart]].
-->'''Fan:''' What the hell kind of answer is that? [[CurseCutShort This show is so fu...]]
* In ''Fanfic/ChangeOfPlans,'' another ''WesternAnimation/TotalDramaWorldTour'' fanfic, the parts that seem Adaptational are explained as either being [=CGI=] or [[ScrewTheRulesIMakeThem Chris]] forcing the characters to re-sing parts of the song in different settings.
[[/folder]]
14th May '17 3:33:17 PM thatother1dude
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* Songs from ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'' are generally Diegetic, with characters listening to each other sing or the behavior being otherwise acknowledged in-universe. The few exceptions are usually ambiguously All In Their Head, such as [[DiegeticSwitch diegetic switches]] halfway through "Strong in the Real Way" and "Stronger Than You", and "Full Disclosure" which is sung while Steven is by himself. "Giant Woman" is a notable example in that the song is sung over a montage, yet Opal later references the song to prove to Steven that she shares the memories of [[spoiler: Amethyst and Pearl]].

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* Songs from ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'' are generally Diegetic, with characters listening to each other sing or the behavior being otherwise acknowledged in-universe. The few exceptions are usually ambiguously All In Their Head, such as [[DiegeticSwitch diegetic switches]] halfway through "Strong in the Real Way" and "Stronger Than You", and "Full Disclosure" which is sung while Steven is by himself. "Giant Woman" is a notable example in that the song is sung over a montage, yet Opal later references the song to prove to Steven that she shares the memories of [[spoiler: Amethyst and Pearl]].Pearl. There's a joke where Pearl is said to be prone to "random outbursts of singing, crying, [[BreadEggsBreadedEggs singing while crying]]..."
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.MusicalWorldHypotheses