History Main / MusicalWorldHypotheses

13th Jun '16 11:09:33 AM Pichu-kun
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Most Franchise/DisneyAnimatedCanon is AlternateUniverse.
** ''Disney/TheSwordInTheStone'', for example, most of the singing done by characters with magical powers, and it's easy to imagine them casting spells using music.
** ''Disney/{{Tangled}}'' introduces a twist during "I've Got A Dream": In this AlternateUniverse, some people choose not to burst into song due to cynicism, grumpiness, or plain ol' bad mood. Flynn is perfectly ''capable'' of joining the CrowdSong, but is ''unwilling'' to do so until he is forced at swordpoint! In fact, [[spoiler:his spontaneous duet with Rapunzel during "I See The Light" is indicative of his character development and shift towards more idealistic values]].
* ''WesternAnimation/AllDogsGoToHeaven'' seems to fall under AlternateUniverse Hypothesis. Musical numbers aren't questioned all that often and occur in all versions. However, there are some more wild numbers, but one is the TropeNamer for BigLippedAlligatorMoment and most of the others involve a legit RealityWarper being the one singi



* Most Franchise/DisneyAnimatedCanon is AlternateUniverse.
** ''Disney/TheSwordInTheStone'', for example, most of the singing done by characters with magical powers, and it's easy to imagine them casting spells using music.
** ''Disney/{{Tangled}}'' introduces a twist during "I've Got A Dream": In this AlternateUniverse, some people choose not to burst into song due to cynicism, grumpiness, or plain ol' bad mood. Flynn is perfectly ''capable'' of joining the CrowdSong, but is ''unwilling'' to do so until he is forced at swordpoint! In fact, [[spoiler:his spontaneous duet with Rapunzel during "I See The Light" is indicative of his character development and shift towards more idealistic values]].



* ''AllDogsGoToHeaven'' seems to fall under AlternateUniverse Hypothesis. Musical numbers aren't questioned all that often and occur in all versions. However, there are some more wild numbers, but one is the TropeNamer for BigLippedAlligatorMoment and most of the others involve a legit RealityWarper being the one singing.




to:

* ''WesternAnimation/{{Jem}}'' is mostly diegetic as the series is about musicians. Most "music videos" are both adaptations of what characters are feeling but also are music that the characters release in-series.
23rd May '16 6:52:39 AM TrustBen
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ''Series/CrazyExGirlfriend'' can vary from song to song, but the number of quickly reversed changes in setting and costume, the out-of-nowhere [[SummonBackupDancers backup dancers]], and the switches to animation and back point to "All In Their Heads."
19th May '16 1:10:47 PM TheOneWhoTropes
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* "Zanzibar", the MusicalEpisode from ''RockosModernLife'', used the Diegetic Hypothesis, where it turns out everyone had actually gone to rehearsals in preparation... everyone except Rocko, who missed the fliers announcing the upcoming musical, and so tends to flounder whenever he tries to sing.

to:

* "Zanzibar", the MusicalEpisode from ''RockosModernLife'', ''WesternAnimation/RockosModernLife'', used the Diegetic Hypothesis, where it turns out everyone had actually gone to rehearsals in preparation... everyone except Rocko, who missed the fliers announcing the upcoming musical, and so tends to flounder whenever he tries to sing.
7th May '16 8:11:28 AM antialiasis
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[AsYouKnow As we all know]], music needs to be composed in advance. Rhyming poetry takes time to piece together. People don't just burst into song and dance in the middle of the street to express their feelings. So how do you make sense of a work of fiction where they ''do''?

* '''The AlternateUniverse Hypothesis''': The musical is set in an alternate world, or magic has been worked on the ordinary world, in which [[CrowdSong people]] really do burst into [[SpontaneousChoreography spontaneous song and dance]]. If the world has always been this way, singing is simply a normal and commonplace form of human communication, if one that seems a bit odd to those of us living in a less musical world. If the world is not normally this way, expect it to be some sort of an uncontrollable compulsion to sing at emotional moments, sometimes to the extent of summoning a FlashMob of [[SummonBackupDancers backup dancers]] from seemingly nowhere. Sometimes the spontaneous singing is due to the actions of TheMusicMeister. Characters may here comment explicitly on when they or other characters are singing as opposed to talking (though where the verb "sing" is just used instead of something like "say" in a song, it does not necessarily imply this). This tends to be the most common, especially in stage musicals. However, especially when the songs are performed outside, it's not very clear where the ''background instrumental music'' is coming from, since most of the time there's no instrument in sight; presumably they come from the same weird {{Hammerspace}} as the [[SummonBackupDancers instant backup dancers]].
* '''The All In Their Heads Hypothesis''': There is no singing; the songs are an artistic rendering of the characters' fantasies, with the format of song in a way serving to distinguish between what really happens and what is only in the characters' heads, much like a [[Creator/WilliamShakespeare Shakespearean]] {{Soliloquy}}. Naturally, this means that no characters are aware of what goes on in another character's song: there may be duets, but then they are [[DistantDuet Distant]] {{Counterpoint Duet}}s where the two characters do not know of one another's participation.
* '''The Diegetic Hypothesis''': The characters are performing actual songs for one another as they might in RealLife, the songs having been written and practiced beforehand in a realistic way. It does not count if the song is merely background music for a scene; if the performance is shown in full and given the viewer's full attention, however, it can count as an example even if the work is not what one would traditionally call a musical. Can overlap with Alternate Universe if writing and performing a song is treated as analogous to writing and giving a speech.
* '''The Adaptation Hypothesis''': Derives from the LiteraryAgentHypothesis: the songs are merely a dramatic reconstruction of what ''really'' happened. For instance, if two characters converse in song and come to some sort of conclusion, it is assumed that the characters ''really'' just had a normal, non-musical conversation that came to the same conclusion, but for the sake of upping the drama (or comedy), it has here been adapted into a song. Technically, all musicals are ''really'' examples of the Adaptation Hypothesis: there is a story and the music is added to dramatize it. However, to truly count as a definite Adaptation Hypothesis example, the others must generally be clearly not applicable: it must be a non-diegetic song during which the singing character clearly communicates with other characters in some form but the universe is still not implied to treat spontaneous singing as normal.

Of course, musicals rarely consistently adopt one musical world hypothesis for their entirety: most of the time individual songs employ different hypotheses, with some songs even split into sections that seem to use different ones. It is especially common for All In Their Heads songs to be scattered among other songs that are clearly heard by other characters. This makes a degree of sense - after all, in an alternate universe hypothesis musical, an all in their heads song would be the equivalent of an internal monologue in a standard play.

One should also remember that most stories in ''any'' genre [[NecessaryWeasel will contain conceits and set-pieces in order to form a more rewarding narrative]]. After all, why are there so many snappy one-liners and pratfalls in a comedy? Or why are there so many explosions and car chases in an action movie? Answer: because they just wouldn't be comedy or action movies without them. [[MST3KMantra Musicals have songs in them: just go with it.]]

Because this trope is a [[Administrivia/LumperVsSplitter lump]], all musicals are technically examples. When adding one, it is therefore necessary to detail which musical world hypothesis applies to which songs.

to:

[[AsYouKnow As we all know]], in ''our'' world, music needs to be composed in advance. Rhyming poetry takes time to piece together. People don't just burst into song and dance in the middle of the street to express their feelings. So how do you make sense of a work of fiction where they ''do''?

* '''The AlternateUniverse Hypothesis''': The musical is set in an alternate world, or magic has been worked on the ordinary world, in which [[CrowdSong people]] really do burst into [[SpontaneousChoreography spontaneous song and dance]]. If the world has always been this way, singing is simply a normal and commonplace form of human communication, communication in this universe; if one that seems a bit odd to those of us living in a less musical world. If the world is not normally this way, expect it to be some sort of an uncontrollable compulsion to sing at emotional moments, sometimes to the extent of summoning a FlashMob of [[SummonBackupDancers backup dancers]] from seemingly nowhere. Sometimes the spontaneous singing is due to perhaps induced by the actions of TheMusicMeister. Characters may here comment explicitly on when they or other In this interpretation, since the singing is an in-universe phenomenon, the characters are singing as opposed to talking (though where the verb "sing" is just used instead aware of something like "say" in a song, it does not necessarily imply this). This tends to be the most common, especially in stage musicals. However, especially when the songs and may explicitly comment on their musical style or specific lyrics; there may be characters who don't like singing and refuse to participate or try to stop others from starting to sing when the music begins to swell; or characters may say things in song that they wouldn't otherwise or regard statements that are performed outside, it's not very clear where the ''background instrumental music'' sung differently from spoken statements. This is coming from, most common in comedic works or as a [[MusicalEpisode one-off occurrence]] in a normally non-musical world, since most it [[LampshadeHanging draws attention to the weirdess of the time there's no instrument in sight; presumably they come from concept]]. In particular, almost all {{parodies}} of musicals treat them as being AlternateUniverse, even when the same weird {{Hammerspace}} as the [[SummonBackupDancers instant backup dancers]].
musical being parodied is not.
* '''The All In Their Heads Hypothesis''': There is no singing; the songs are an artistic rendering of the characters' fantasies, with the format of song in a way serving to distinguish between what really happens and what is only in the characters' heads, much like a [[Creator/WilliamShakespeare Shakespearean]] {{Soliloquy}}. Naturally, this means that no characters are aware of what goes on in another character's song: there may be duets, but then they are [[DistantDuet Distant]] {{Counterpoint Duet}}s where the two characters do not know of one another's participation.
participation. This makes the musical more palatable for some, since there is obviously no literal singing involved in-universe.
* '''The Diegetic Hypothesis''': The characters are performing actual actual, literal songs for one another as they might in RealLife, with the songs having been written and practiced beforehand in a realistic way. It does not count if the song is merely background music for a scene; if the performance is shown in full and given the viewer's full attention, however, it This can count as an example even if the work is not what one would traditionally call a musical. Can overlap with Alternate Universe if writing and performing a song is treated as analogous to writing and giving a speech.
speech. Fully diegetic musicals are distinguished from non-musicals that happen to feature musical performances only by the number of such musical performances that are given the viewer's full attention.
* '''The Adaptation Hypothesis''': Derives from the LiteraryAgentHypothesis: the songs are merely a dramatic reconstruction of what ''really'' happened. For instance, if two characters converse in song and come to some sort of conclusion, it is assumed that the characters ''really'' just had a normal, non-musical conversation that came to the same conclusion, but for the sake of upping the drama (or comedy), because it's a musical, it has here been adapted into a song. Technically, all musicals are ''really'' examples of song for drama (or comedy) purposes. This is the Adaptation Hypothesis: there is a story most common interpretation in stage musicals, and the music is added to dramatize it. However, to truly count as a definite Adaptation Hypothesis example, way most of them are written: almost AllMusicalsAreAdaptations, after all, and the others must source material generally doesn't have any singing. Many musical songs ''only'' make sense in light of this interpretation: they may be clearly not applicable: it must be essentially montages of a non-diegetic song during which much longer time period, for instance, while still featuring dialogue or interactions between the singing character clearly communicates with other characters in some form but that rules out the universe is still not implied to treat spontaneous singing as normal.

Of course,
song being a fantasy.

The writers of
musicals rarely consistently don't necessarily adopt exactly one musical world hypothesis of these interpretations for their entirety: most of the time individual songs employ different hypotheses, with some songs even split into sections that seem a work; rather, musicals often love to use different ones. It is mix in more than one, especially common for with Diegetic or All In Their Heads songs to be scattered among other songs that are clearly heard by other characters. This makes sprinkled into a degree of sense - after all, in an alternate universe hypothesis musical, an all in their heads song would be the equivalent of an internal monologue in a standard play.

One should also remember that most stories in ''any'' genre [[NecessaryWeasel will contain conceits and set-pieces in order to form a more rewarding narrative]].
broader Alternate Universe or Adaptation Hypothesis work. After all, why are there so many snappy one-liners and pratfalls in any reason to include a comedy? Or why are there so many explosions and car chases in an action movie? Answer: song is a good reason: we have musicals because they just wouldn't be comedy we enjoy hearing stories told with music, regardless of ''why'' or action movies without them. ''how'' that music is there. [[MST3KMantra Musicals have songs in them: just Just go with it.]]

Because this trope is a [[Administrivia/LumperVsSplitter lump]], all musicals are technically examples. When adding one, it is therefore necessary to detail which musical world hypothesis applies seems to which songs.
apply to it overall and any notable song exceptions.



* ''Disney/TheGreatMouseDetective'' is pretty much Diagetic. There are three songs in the film (not including the reprise of "Goodbye So Soon" sung over the end credits) and they all occur within the film's story. One is "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind". The other two songs are a stage show ("Let Me Be Good to You") and a song Ratigan composed as a farewell to Basil, which is played on a phonograph ("Goodbye So Soon").

to:

* ''Disney/TheGreatMouseDetective'' is pretty much Diagetic.Diegetic. There are three songs in the film (not including the reprise of "Goodbye So Soon" sung over the end credits) and they all occur within the film's story. One is "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind". The other two songs are a stage show ("Let Me Be Good to You") and a song Ratigan composed as a farewell to Basil, which is played on a phonograph ("Goodbye So Soon").



* ''Film/TheBluesBrothers'' is mostly diagetic, with actually bands and musicians doing rehearsed performances. But then you have Aretha Franklin randomly bursting into song in a diner accompanied by background singers, and people flooding the streets to do a choreographed dance when Ray Charles belts out a number. "Minnie the Moocher" is an odd case where the ''music'' is clearly diegetic ([[ContrivedCoincidence they just happened to know how to play that exact song perfect the first time]]), but the ''outfits'' worn by the band are clearly part of an AlternateUniverse: they instantly change from their regular clothes to white vests when the song starts and suddenly reverted when it ends between shots, without any scene change whatsoever.

to:

* ''Film/TheBluesBrothers'' is mostly diagetic, diegetic, with actually actual bands and musicians doing rehearsed performances. But then you have Aretha Franklin randomly bursting into song in a diner accompanied by background singers, and people flooding the streets to do a choreographed dance when Ray Charles belts out a number. "Minnie the Moocher" is an odd case where the ''music'' is clearly diegetic ([[ContrivedCoincidence they just happened to know how to play that exact song perfect the first time]]), but the ''outfits'' worn by the band are clearly part of an AlternateUniverse: they instantly change from their regular clothes to white vests when the song starts and suddenly reverted when it ends between shots, without any scene change whatsoever.



* ''Film/TheMask'' is an alternate universe example. A little magic from the title character can make people break out in SpontaneousSongAndDance. In fact, people struggle to maintain control as they're forced slowly forced to sing.

to:

* ''Film/TheMask'' is an alternate universe example. A little magic from the title character can make people break out in SpontaneousSongAndDance. In fact, people struggle to maintain control as they're forced slowly forced to sing.



* ''Film/SantaAndTheIceCreamBunny'' is most likely diagetic (though the producers [[TheyJustDidntCare likely didn't give it much thought]]). All the musical numbers except for one have no background accompaniment, and the singing sounds ''exactly'' the way it would in real life.

to:

* ''Film/SantaAndTheIceCreamBunny'' is most likely diagetic diegetic (though the producers [[TheyJustDidntCare likely didn't give it much thought]]). All the musical numbers except for one have no background accompaniment, and the singing sounds ''exactly'' the way it would in real life.



* Save for two songs that are diegetic (both versions of In The Flesh, where Pink is seen singing in front of an audience), the film version of ''Music/TheWall'' is purely adaptational, as is suggested by the opening song, where Pink tells the audience that to see [[BeneathTheMask his true self]], they have to claw their way through his disguise. Also, several songs, such as "Comfortably Numb" only work in an adaptational sense (in the case of "Comfortably Numb", though singing, Pink admits he can't hear what the doctor is saying, yet he seems to respond to him as if he can). though others, like "The Trial", work best in an all in his head form.

to:

* Save for two songs that are diegetic (both versions of In The Flesh, where Pink is seen singing in front of an audience), the film version of ''Music/TheWall'' is purely adaptational, as is suggested by the opening song, where Pink tells the audience that to see [[BeneathTheMask his true self]], they have to claw their way through his disguise. Also, several songs, such as "Comfortably Numb" only work in an adaptational sense (in the case of "Comfortably Numb", though singing, Pink admits he can't hear what the doctor is saying, yet he seems to respond to him as if he can). can), though others, like "The Trial", work best in an all in his head form.



* The ''Series/FlightOfTheConchords'' TV show is about musicians and thus a lot of the songs are diegetic (e.g. ''Bret, You've Got It Going On'', ''If You're Into It'' and ''Albi the Racist Dragon'', the last being on a ShowWithinAShow). However, other songs are All In Their Heads (e.g. ''She's So Hot, Boom'', which stylistically shows the girl it is sung to during it but is still obviously not actually being performed for her, ''Business Time'', ''Mermaids'', ''Sugarlumps''), and others are clearly Adaptation Hypothesis examples (e.g. ''Most Beautiful Girl in the Room'', ''Hurt Feelings'', ''I Told You I was Freekie''). One of relatively few musicals that are ''not'' Alternate Universe at all.

to:

* The ''Series/FlightOfTheConchords'' TV show is about musicians musicians, and thus a lot of the songs are diegetic (e.g. ''Bret, You've Got It Going On'', ''If You're Into It'' and ''Albi the Racist Dragon'', the last being on a ShowWithinAShow). However, other songs are All In Their Heads (e.g. ''She's So Hot, Boom'', which stylistically shows the girl it is sung to during it but is still obviously not actually being performed for her, ''Business Time'', ''Mermaids'', ''Sugarlumps''), and others are clearly Adaptation Hypothesis examples (e.g. ''Most Beautiful Girl in the Room'', ''Hurt Feelings'', ''I Told You I was Freekie''). One of relatively few musicals that are ''not'' Alternate Universe at all.



** The MusicalEpisode "The Gunfighters" mostly has a variant of All In Their Heads, as the songs act as a GreekChorus, communicating on the action without actually engaging in it. However, there is a big diagetic musical number when Steven and Dodo, and later Steven and Doc Holiday's girlfriend, are forced by a bunch of gangsters to sing in order to prove that they really are a group of travelling singers and therefore aren't in league with Doc Holiday.

to:

** The MusicalEpisode "The Gunfighters" mostly has a variant of All In Their Heads, as the songs act as a GreekChorus, communicating on the action without actually engaging in it. However, there is a big diagetic diegetic musical number when Steven and Dodo, and later Steven and Doc Holiday's girlfriend, are forced by a bunch of gangsters to sing in order to prove that they really are a group of travelling singers and therefore aren't in league with Doc Holiday.



* ''Theatre/{{Rent}}'' is mostly Adaptation with some All In Their Heads (e.g. ''Without You'' and ''What You Own''). There are a few diegetic numbers, though, such as ''Your Eyes'' and ''Over The Moon'', and more that ambiguously might be diegetic, e.g. ''Today 4 U'' (which may or may not be a literal performance by Angel).
* ''Theatre/SweeneyToddTheDemonBarberOfFleetStreet'' is largely Alternate Universe with some All In Their Heads (e.g. Sweeney's portion of ''Johanna (Reprise)'', part of ''Epiphany'') and a couple of seemingly diegetic (Toby's 'advertising jingles' first for Pirelli and then Mrs. Lovett's pie shop and the "Parlor Songs" sequence).

to:

* ''Theatre/{{Rent}}'' is mostly Adaptation with some All In Their Heads (e.g. ''Without You'' and ''What You Own''). There are a few diegetic numbers, though, such as ''Your Eyes'' and ''Over The Moon'', and more that ambiguously might be diegetic, e.g. ''Today 4 U'' (which may or may not be a literal performance by Angel).
Angel). Notably, the character of Roger is a musician who spends most of the musical struggling to write a song, even as he sings many songs - this baffles some viewers who are unfamiliar with the silent assumption of the Adaptation Hypothesis that the songs aren't literally happening.
* ''Theatre/SweeneyToddTheDemonBarberOfFleetStreet'' is largely Alternate Universe Adaptation with some All In Their Heads (e.g. Sweeney's portion of ''Johanna (Reprise)'', part of ''Epiphany'') and a couple of seemingly diegetic (Toby's 'advertising jingles' first for Pirelli and then Mrs. Lovett's pie shop and the "Parlor Songs" sequence).



** ''Caring Hands'', ''A Man's Gotta Do'', ''Penny's Song'', and ''So They Say'' are all probably Alternate Universe.
** ''Everyone's a Hero'' and ''Slipping'' are probably Adaptation, with Captain Hammer giving an insensitive speech rather than a song, and Doctor Horrible announcing to the crowd his existence as a villain.

to:

** ''Caring Hands'', ''A Man's Gotta Do'', ''Penny's Song'', Other songs feature [[MusicalisInterruptus interruptions]] and ''So They Say'' other indicators that they are all happening in-universe; others are ambiguous but judging from the rest can probably be taken to be Alternate Universe.
** ''Everyone's a Hero'' and ''Slipping'' are probably Adaptation, with Captain Hammer giving an insensitive speech rather than a song, and Doctor Horrible announcing to the crowd his existence as a villain.
Universe.
29th Apr '16 11:02:25 PM ThatFanwiththeGlasses
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''WesternAnimation/PhineasAndFerb'' is definitely a musical world, although an...interesting one. While people fo burst into song and dance at random times, Doofensmirtz has been known to hire back-up singers specifically for this purpose. Also, the MusicalEpisode lampshades it to hell and back.

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/PhineasAndFerb'' is definitely a musical world, although an...interesting one. While people fo do burst into song and dance at random times, Doofensmirtz Doofenshmirtz has been known to hire back-up singers specifically for this purpose. Also, the MusicalEpisode lampshades it to hell and back.


Added DiffLines:

** Typically, the songs in ''Phineas and Ferb'' can be divided into one of three categories: "soundtrack" songs which aren't sung by the characters (such as "Aerial Area Rug"), "prepared" songs which are specifically shown to have been written and choreographed beforehand (such as "Gitchie Gitchie Goo"), and "spontaneous" songs which come out of nowhere (such as "With These Blueprints"). One episode states that Danville is well known for its spontaneous musical numbers, indicating that the third category is considered commonplace.
21st Apr '16 6:04:54 PM antialiasis
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''Theatre/{{Rent}}'' is mostly Alternate Universe with some All In Their Heads (e.g. ''Without You'' and ''What You Own''). There are a few diegetic numbers, though, such as "Your Eyes" and "Over The Moon".
* ''Theatre/SweeneyToddTheDemonBarberOfFleetStreet'' is also largely Alternate Universe with some All In Their Heads (e.g. Sweeney's portion of ''Johanna (Reprise)'', part of ''Epiphany'') and a couple of seemingly diegetic (Toby's 'advertising jingles' first for Pirelli and then Mrs. Lovett's pie shop and the "Parlor Songs" sequence).

to:

* ''Theatre/{{Rent}}'' is mostly Alternate Universe Adaptation with some All In Their Heads (e.g. ''Without You'' and ''What You Own''). There are a few diegetic numbers, though, such as "Your Eyes" ''Your Eyes'' and "Over ''Over The Moon".
Moon'', and more that ambiguously might be diegetic, e.g. ''Today 4 U'' (which may or may not be a literal performance by Angel).
* ''Theatre/SweeneyToddTheDemonBarberOfFleetStreet'' is also largely Alternate Universe with some All In Their Heads (e.g. Sweeney's portion of ''Johanna (Reprise)'', part of ''Epiphany'') and a couple of seemingly diegetic (Toby's 'advertising jingles' first for Pirelli and then Mrs. Lovett's pie shop and the "Parlor Songs" sequence).
18th Apr '16 6:39:28 PM 1nightonly
Is there an issue? Send a Message


As we all know, music needs to be composed in advance. Rhyming poetry takes time to piece together. People don't just burst into song and dance in the middle of the street to express their feelings. So how do you make sense of a work of fiction where they ''do''?

to:

[[AsYouKnow As we all know, know]], music needs to be composed in advance. Rhyming poetry takes time to piece together. People don't just burst into song and dance in the middle of the street to express their feelings. So how do you make sense of a work of fiction where they ''do''?
15th Apr '16 5:08:51 PM fearlessnikki
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

* ''{{Disney/Pocahontas}}'' falls right under the 'Adaptation' label. "Colours of the Wind" notably is a representation of Pocahontas showing John Smith how great nature is, "Mine Mine Mine" is the settlers digging for gold and "If I Never Knew You" is really a conversation between John and Pocahontas.



* ''Theatre/{{Nine}}'' is done by the same director, and does the same thing. Since it's an adaptation of ''8 1/2'', this works pretty well.

to:

* ''Theatre/{{Nine}}'' is done by the same director, and does the same thing. Since it's an adaptation of ''8 1/2'', this works pretty well. The protagonist is having a mid-life crisis and is a creative film director.



* ''Film/MoulinRouge'' is primarily an alternate universe, with a setting that lends itself well to diegetic numbers.

to:

* ''Film/MoulinRouge'' is primarily an alternate universe, with a setting that lends itself well to diegetic numbers. Also the story is being typed up by Christian, overlapping with the 'All In Their Head' somewhat.


Added DiffLines:

* In contrast to the stage show ''Film/IntoTheWoods'' has the whole film being narrated by the Baker to his baby son, making this the 'All In Their Heads' hypothesis. Many of the songs could be just the Baker's imagination of what really happened. But then again, it is a fairy tale world and some of the songs feature things the Baker shouldn't know about (unless some of the other characters filled him in later) - so both 'Alternate Universe' and 'Adaptation' are applicable.
8th Mar '16 11:31:25 AM ScroogeMacDuck
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* '''The AlternateUniverse Hypothesis''': The musical is set in an alternate world, or magic has been worked on the ordinary world, in which [[CrowdSong people]] really do burst into [[SpontaneousChoreography spontaneous song and dance]]. If the world has always been this way, singing is simply a normal and commonplace form of human communication, if one that seems a bit odd to those of us living in a less musical world. If the world is not normally this way, expect it to be some sort of an uncontrollable compulsion to sing at emotional moments, sometimes to the extent of summoning a FlashMob of [[SummonBackupDancers backup dancers]] from seemingly nowhere. Sometimes the spontaneous singing is due to the actions of TheMusicMeister. Characters may here comment explicitly on when they or other characters are singing as opposed to talking (though where the verb "sing" is just used instead of something like "say" in a song, it does not necessarily imply this). This tends to be the most common, especially in stage musicals.

to:

* '''The AlternateUniverse Hypothesis''': The musical is set in an alternate world, or magic has been worked on the ordinary world, in which [[CrowdSong people]] really do burst into [[SpontaneousChoreography spontaneous song and dance]]. If the world has always been this way, singing is simply a normal and commonplace form of human communication, if one that seems a bit odd to those of us living in a less musical world. If the world is not normally this way, expect it to be some sort of an uncontrollable compulsion to sing at emotional moments, sometimes to the extent of summoning a FlashMob of [[SummonBackupDancers backup dancers]] from seemingly nowhere. Sometimes the spontaneous singing is due to the actions of TheMusicMeister. Characters may here comment explicitly on when they or other characters are singing as opposed to talking (though where the verb "sing" is just used instead of something like "say" in a song, it does not necessarily imply this). This tends to be the most common, especially in stage musicals. However, especially when the songs are performed outside, it's not very clear where the ''background instrumental music'' is coming from, since most of the time there's no instrument in sight; presumably they come from the same weird {{Hammerspace}} as the [[SummonBackupDancers instant backup dancers]].



Of course, musicals rarely consistently adopt one musical world hypothesis for their entirety: most of the time individual songs employ different hypotheses, with some songs even split into sections that seem to use different ones. It is especially common for All In Their Heads songs to be scattered among other songs that are clearly heard by other characters. This makes a degree of sense-after all, in an alternate universe hypothesis musical, an all in their heads song would be the equivalent of an internal monologue in a standard play.

to:

Of course, musicals rarely consistently adopt one musical world hypothesis for their entirety: most of the time individual songs employ different hypotheses, with some songs even split into sections that seem to use different ones. It is especially common for All In Their Heads songs to be scattered among other songs that are clearly heard by other characters. This makes a degree of sense-after sense - after all, in an alternate universe hypothesis musical, an all in their heads song would be the equivalent of an internal monologue in a standard play.



* ''Disney/TheGreatMouseDetective'' is definitely Diagetic. There are three songs in the film (not including the reprise of "Goodbye So Soon" sung over the end credits) and they all occur within the film's story. The first, "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind," is the VillainSong and is even interrupted and then resumes with Professor Ratigan telling his chorus of {{Mooks}} "And now, as you were singing..." The song itself - a rather elaborate, off-the-cuff number - works within the context of the story because Professor Ratigan is just the sort of egotistical weirdo who would randomly stage a Broadway-style song and dance routine about how awesome he is. The other two songs are a stage show ("Let Me Be Good to You") and a song Ratigan composed as a farewell to Basil, which is played on a phonograph ("Goodbye So Soon").

to:

* ''Disney/TheGreatMouseDetective'' is definitely pretty much Diagetic. There are three songs in the film (not including the reprise of "Goodbye So Soon" sung over the end credits) and they all occur within the film's story. One is "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind". The other two songs are a stage show ("Let Me Be Good to You") and a song Ratigan composed as a farewell to Basil, which is played on a phonograph ("Goodbye So Soon").
**
The first, "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind," is the VillainSong VillainSong. It is a bit harder to determine. One thing is sure, it is not an Inner Monologue or the character speaking instead of singing: he mentions being singing, accompanies himself with a harp at one point, and the song is even interrupted and then resumes with Professor Ratigan telling his chorus of {{Mooks}} "And now, as you were singing..." The It ''could'' still be diegetic: the song itself - a rather elaborate, off-the-cuff number - works within the context of the story because Professor Ratigan is just the sort of egotistical weirdo who would randomly stage a Broadway-style song and dance routine about how awesome he is. The other two songs are a stage show ("Let Me Be Good However, the books seem to You") and a answer to him in song Ratigan composed as a farewell to Basil, which natural thing, even though it's clear ''they'' couldn't possibly practiced. And the harp mentioned earlier is played on a phonograph ("Goodbye So Soon").also the only instrument seen at all; the orchestral background music's origin remains unknown.
24th Feb '16 1:08:54 PM Kooshmeister
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''WesternAnimation/TheGreatMouseDetective'' is definitely Diagetic. There are three songs in the film (not including the reprise of "Goodbye So Soon" sung over the end credits) and they all occur within the film's story. The first, "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind," is the VillainSong and is even interrupted and then resumes with Professor Ratigan telling his chorus of {{Mooks}} "And now, as you were singing..." The song itself - a rather elaborate, off-the-cuff number - works within the context of the story because Professor Ratigan is just the sort of egotistical weirdo who would randomly stage a Broadway-style song and dance routine about how awesome he is. The other two songs are a stage show ("Let Me Be Good to You") and a song Ratigan composed as a farewell to Basil, which is played on a phonograph ("Goodbye So Soon").

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/TheGreatMouseDetective'' ''Disney/TheGreatMouseDetective'' is definitely Diagetic. There are three songs in the film (not including the reprise of "Goodbye So Soon" sung over the end credits) and they all occur within the film's story. The first, "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind," is the VillainSong and is even interrupted and then resumes with Professor Ratigan telling his chorus of {{Mooks}} "And now, as you were singing..." The song itself - a rather elaborate, off-the-cuff number - works within the context of the story because Professor Ratigan is just the sort of egotistical weirdo who would randomly stage a Broadway-style song and dance routine about how awesome he is. The other two songs are a stage show ("Let Me Be Good to You") and a song Ratigan composed as a farewell to Basil, which is played on a phonograph ("Goodbye So Soon").
This list shows the last 10 events of 220. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.MusicalWorldHypotheses