History Main / MortonsFork

19th Feb '17 7:39:26 AM Sunflorazumarill
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* In ''Film/NationalTreasure'', when the main character (Nicholas Cage) is being interrogated by a federal agent (Harvey Keitel), the agent responds with "Refuse to cooperate with us, and you go to jail for a very long time. Cooperate with us, and you still go to jail for a very long time, but you feel better about yourself." The main character asks if there's any option that doesn't land him in jail and gets the response "Somebody's got to go to jail."


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* In an episode of ''WesternAnimation/InchHighPrivateEye'', the titular character (who has GeorgeJetsonJobSecurity) is told by his boss if he doesn't find a stolen robotic flea he's fired. Inch High asks him what if he does find it, with his boss telling him that if he does get it back he's still fired, Inch High lamenting that he gets fired either way.
17th Feb '17 1:36:23 AM dogman15
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** "Morton's Fork" is also the title of [[https://theportalwiki.com/wiki/Portal_2_Chapter_9_Morton%27s_Fork the level/map immediately preceeding the final boss fight]], because you're presented with the option of either jumping into a masher at the end of a fast conveyor belt, or solving the puzzle and continuing onward to the boss battle.

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** "Morton's Fork" is also the title of [[https://theportalwiki.com/wiki/Portal_2_Chapter_9_Morton%27s_Fork the level/map immediately preceeding the final boss fight]], fight]] of the main game, because you're presented with the option of either jumping into a masher at the end of a fast conveyor belt, or solving the puzzle and continuing onward to the boss battle.
17th Feb '17 1:35:35 AM dogman15
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** "Morton's Fork" is also the title of [[https://theportalwiki.com/wiki/Portal_2_Chapter_9_Morton%27s_Fork the level/map immediately preceeding the final boss fight]], because you're presented with the option of either jumping into a masher at the end of a fast conveyor belt, or solving the puzzle and continuing onward to the boss battle.
16th Feb '17 1:22:03 PM gb00393
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* ''Series/GameOfThrones'': King Robert explains how a Dothraki invasion would put him in a Morton's Fork. If he faces the Dothraki horsemen in open battle, he'll be defeated. If he barricades himself in his castles, the Dothraki will rape and pillage the countryside so badly that he'll lose his kingdom anyway.
9th Feb '17 8:25:00 PM Vir
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** Chapter 4: Accepting help to save Lana means you save her with a dark force pulse, while Koth catches up moments later. If you reject the temptation and leave Lana to fend for herself, Koth will save her for you.

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** Chapter 4: Accepting help to save Lana means you save her with a dark force pulse, while Koth catches up moments later. later, then she later admonishes you for using Valkorion's power even if it was to protect her. If you reject the temptation and leave Lana to fend for herself, she'll be injured and Koth will save her for you.
9th Feb '17 8:23:14 PM Vir
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** In the two-parter "The Return of Harmony", Discord gets five of the [[FanNickname Mane]] [[TrueCompanions Six]] into a Morton's Fork where they are meant to fall for his [[BreakThemByTalking BreakingSpeech]] trick and abandon their element due to his use of MoreThanMindControl. In the lone case where one of the ponies (Fluttershy) doesn't fall for this, he just {{Mind Rape}}s her in order to rid her of all traces of her element by [[BreakTheCutie breaking her perforce]]. Especially worth noting is the SadisticChoice he gave to Rainbow Dash. Her element is loyalty, so he informed her that her hometown of Cloudsdale was about to be destroyed and that the only way for her to save it was to take her wings back and leave the maze (which means he wins). Whatever RD did at this point, she would either be turning her back on her friends or turning her back on her home town, meaning she would lose her element no matter what.

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** In the two-parter "The Return of Harmony", Discord gets five of the [[FanNickname Mane]] [[TrueCompanions Six]] into a Morton's Fork where they are meant to fall for his [[BreakThemByTalking BreakingSpeech]] breaking speech]] trick and abandon their element due to his use of MoreThanMindControl. In the lone case where one of the ponies (Fluttershy) doesn't fall for this, he just {{Mind Rape}}s her in order to rid her of all traces of her element by [[BreakTheCutie breaking her perforce]]. Especially worth noting is the SadisticChoice he gave to Rainbow Dash. Her element is loyalty, so he informed her that her hometown of Cloudsdale was about to be destroyed and that the only way for her to save it was to take her wings back and leave the maze (which means he wins). Whatever RD did at this point, she would either be turning her back on her friends or turning her back on her home town, meaning she would lose her element no matter what.
9th Feb '17 8:22:36 PM Vir
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* In ''VideoGame/Dishonored'', the BigBad and his henchman do this to Corvo via the methods of witch trials. They torture him for months, saying he can either confess he killed the empress (which he didn't) or die while staying silent. [[spoiler: Averted, they don't plan on killing him since they ''need'' his confession to have a scapegoat and claim unchallenged innocence themselves]].

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* In ''VideoGame/Dishonored'', ''VideoGame/{{Dishonored}}'', the BigBad and his henchman do this to Corvo via the methods of witch trials. They torture him for months, saying he can either confess he killed the empress (which he didn't) or die while staying silent. [[spoiler: Averted, they don't plan on killing him since they ''need'' his confession to have a scapegoat and claim unchallenged innocence themselves]].
9th Feb '17 2:21:37 PM merotoker
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Compare XanatosGambit, where this is weaponized in a specific type of {{plan}} and often used by TheChessmaster. See also SadisticChoice, which similarly forces characters to choose between two untenable choices, except that each leads to a different undesirable outcome. Characters often attempt to TakeAThirdOption in response, with varying degrees of success. They may instead pick one to GetItOverWith. If the fork is deliberately placed into a test, this is UnwinnableTrainingSimulation.

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Compare XanatosGambit, where this is weaponized in a specific type of {{plan}} [[ThePlan plan]] and often used by TheChessmaster. See also SadisticChoice, which similarly forces characters to choose between two untenable choices, except that each leads to a different undesirable outcome. Characters often attempt to TakeAThirdOption in response, with varying degrees of success. They may instead pick one to GetItOverWith. If the fork is deliberately placed into a test, this is UnwinnableTrainingSimulation.



** Note to anybody either defending or beseiging Winterfell at any point: win, lose or draw... it's going to ''suck'' (almost all sieges are depicted as miserable to suffer through, but Winterfell adds "large to guard, solidly built, a tricky possition and a ''horribly'' unforgiving climate" into the mix). Your plans won't work as planned. Almost everybody involved is doomed to suffer, no matter what moves you try to make. And, if you're not a Stark, the North ''won't'' take kindly to you trying to either rule from there or hold up in it, however nice or nasty you try to play it. To the North, Winterfell is of the Starks, and the Starks are of it -- and, nothing but the end of both will change that attitude. It's explicitly not your usual "take the capitol; rule the region" scenario, however tempting it is to make that assumption.

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** Note to anybody either defending or beseiging besieging Winterfell at any point: win, lose or draw... it's going to ''suck'' (almost all sieges are depicted as miserable to suffer through, but Winterfell adds "large to guard, solidly built, a tricky possition and a ''horribly'' unforgiving climate" into the mix). Your plans won't work as planned. Almost everybody involved is doomed to suffer, no matter what moves you try to make. And, if you're not a Stark, the North ''won't'' take kindly to you trying to either rule from there or hold up in it, however nice or nasty you try to play it. To the North, Winterfell is of the Starks, and the Starks are of it -- and, nothing but the end of both will change that attitude. It's explicitly not your usual "take the capitol; rule the region" scenario, however tempting it is to make that assumption.



* In Rudyard Kipling's ''Literature/RikkiTikkiTavi'', the cobra Nagaina has the boy Teddy cornered at the breakfast table with his parents. As the family is frozen in terror, she hisses, "If you move, I strike. If you do not move, I strike."

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* In Rudyard Kipling's Creator/RudyardKipling's ''Literature/RikkiTikkiTavi'', the cobra Nagaina has the boy Teddy cornered at the breakfast table with his parents. As the family is frozen in terror, she hisses, "If you move, I strike. If you do not move, I strike."



** In "Quarantine", when Rimmer puts the rest of the crew in quarantine, only to turn out to have caught a holo-virus himself which has driven him insane, Lister realises that arguing with him will only make him more irrational, so carefully doesn't react to him wearing a gingham dress and army boots ConsultingMrPuppet, and explaining that he can't release them because the King of the Potato People won't let him. Rimmer then says that if other Dwarfers don't see anything odd about this, they're clearly completely mad, and he therefore shuts off the oxygen in the quarantine chamber. "That'll teach you to be breadbaskets!"

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** In "Quarantine", when Rimmer puts the rest of the crew in quarantine, only to turn out to have caught a holo-virus himself which has driven him insane, Lister realises that arguing with him will only make him more irrational, so carefully doesn't react to him wearing a gingham dress and army boots ConsultingMrPuppet, ConsultingMisterPuppet, and explaining that he can't release them because the King of the Potato People won't let him. Rimmer then says that if other Dwarfers don't see anything odd about this, they're clearly completely mad, and he therefore shuts off the oxygen in the quarantine chamber. "That'll teach you to be breadbaskets!"



* Moloch von Zinzer in ''Webcomic/GirlGenius'' has "a remarkably ''astute'' grasp of the situation" [[http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080901 here]]. Either he follows Agatha on a suicide mission to save her LoveInterest, or he parts ways with her, exposing himself to the castle's destructive sense of humour. His attempt to [[TakeAThirdOption make her consider finding another boyfriend]] fails.

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* Moloch von Zinzer in ''Webcomic/GirlGenius'' has "a remarkably ''astute'' grasp of the situation" [[http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080901 here]]. Either he follows Agatha on a suicide mission to save her LoveInterest, {{Love Interest|s}}, or he parts ways with her, exposing himself to the castle's destructive sense of humour. His attempt to [[TakeAThirdOption make her consider finding another boyfriend]] fails.



** In "The Computer Wore Menace Shoes" Homer goes to the Springfield Police Department's homepage, and it asks him to choose whether or not he's commited a crime and wants to turn himself in. Picking "no" leads to the site assuming he commited a crime but is denying that he did it.

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** In "The Computer Wore Menace Shoes" Homer goes to the Springfield Police Department's homepage, and it asks him to choose whether or not he's commited committed a crime and wants to turn himself in. Picking "no" leads to the site assuming he commited committed a crime but is denying that he did it.



** In the two-parter "The Return of Harmony", Discord gets five of the [[FanNickname Mane]] [[TrueCompanions Six]] into a Morton's Fork where they are meant to fall for his BreakingSpeech trick and abandon their element due to his use of MoreThanMindControl. In the lone case where one of the ponies (Fluttershy) doesn't fall for this, he just {{Mind Rape}}s her in order to rid her of all traces of her element by [[BreakTheCutie breaking her perforce]]. Especially worth noting is the SadisticChoice he gave to Rainbow Dash. Her element is loyalty, so he informed her that her hometown of Cloudsdale was about to be destroyed and that the only way for her to save it was to take her wings back and leave the maze (which means he wins). Whatever RD did at this point, she would either be turning her back on her friends or turning her back on her home town, meaning she would lose her element no matter what.

to:

** In the two-parter "The Return of Harmony", Discord gets five of the [[FanNickname Mane]] [[TrueCompanions Six]] into a Morton's Fork where they are meant to fall for his BreakingSpeech [[BreakThemByTalking BreakingSpeech]] trick and abandon their element due to his use of MoreThanMindControl. In the lone case where one of the ponies (Fluttershy) doesn't fall for this, he just {{Mind Rape}}s her in order to rid her of all traces of her element by [[BreakTheCutie breaking her perforce]]. Especially worth noting is the SadisticChoice he gave to Rainbow Dash. Her element is loyalty, so he informed her that her hometown of Cloudsdale was about to be destroyed and that the only way for her to save it was to take her wings back and leave the maze (which means he wins). Whatever RD did at this point, she would either be turning her back on her friends or turning her back on her home town, meaning she would lose her element no matter what.



* WesternAnimation/{{D|ilbert}}ogbert bet Dilbert $20 that it didn't feel good to give and then asked Dilbert to give him $40. As Dilbert notes, either way he's out $20.

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* WesternAnimation/{{D|ilbert}}ogbert *Dogbert bet Dilbert WesternAnimation/{{Dilbert}} $20 that it didn't feel good to give and then asked Dilbert to give him $40. As Dilbert notes, either way he's out $20.



* ''BatmanTheAnimatedSeries'', "Almost Got 'im":

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* ''BatmanTheAnimatedSeries'', ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries'', "Almost Got 'im":



* In law enforcement contexts in the U.S., the question "Am I being detained?" presents a big one for police officers. When asked that question, an officer can't answer "Yes" unless they have probable cause to detain their suspect that would actually hold up in court.[[note]]Because answering "yes" legally means the person is being arrested and the officer ''must'' (by the ''Miranda'' decision) read and acknowledge the person's rights while under arrest, meaning the person can now asssert, "I will not speak further without my attorney," either raising the stakes or ending the interrogation.[[/note]] But if they answer "No", it's essentially an admission that the suspect is free to go whenever they wish, and that the officer can't do anything to stop them. If they try to TakeAThirdOption by not answering "Yes" or "No", it's a red flag that the officer ''wants'' to detain them, but doesn't have sufficient evidence to do so--and can thus be used as evidence of unlawful harassment. For that reason, "Am I being detained?" is often recommended as an ArmorPiercingQuestion for situations when a citizen suspects that an officer may be violating their rights by trying to detain them without cause. Again, this applies in the U.S.; in other countries, the question may not be such a problem. Furthermore, discussing the possibility of unlawful harassment with the officer who wants to detain you, makes you liable to be accused of lawyering.

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* In law enforcement contexts in the U.S., the question "Am I being detained?" presents a big one for police officers. When asked that question, an officer can't answer "Yes" unless they have probable cause to detain their suspect that would actually hold up in court.[[note]]Because answering "yes" legally means the person is being arrested and the officer ''must'' (by the ''Miranda'' decision) read and acknowledge the person's rights while under arrest, meaning the person can now asssert, assert, "I will not speak further without my attorney," either raising the stakes or ending the interrogation.[[/note]] But if they answer "No", it's essentially an admission that the suspect is free to go whenever they wish, and that the officer can't do anything to stop them. If they try to TakeAThirdOption by not answering "Yes" or "No", it's a red flag that the officer ''wants'' to detain them, but doesn't have sufficient evidence to do so--and can thus be used as evidence of unlawful harassment. For that reason, "Am I being detained?" is often recommended as an ArmorPiercingQuestion for situations when a citizen suspects that an officer may be violating their rights by trying to detain them without cause. Again, this applies in the U.S.; in other countries, the question may not be such a problem. Furthermore, discussing the possibility of unlawful harassment with the officer who wants to detain you, makes you liable to be accused of lawyering.



* [=eBay=] has done this to legally back up their ban on people trying to [[DealWithTheDevil sell their souls]] on the website: if the soul does not exist, then nothing is being sold and the transaction is fraudulent; if the soul ''does'' exist, then it is a part of the human body, and [=eBay=] does not permit the sale of human bodies (or pieces thereof) on their website.

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* [=eBay=] Website/EBay has done this to legally back up their ban on people trying to [[DealWithTheDevil sell their souls]] on the website: if the soul does not exist, then nothing is being sold and the transaction is fraudulent; if the soul ''does'' exist, then it is a part of the human body, and [=eBay=] does not permit the sale of human bodies (or pieces thereof) on their website.
4th Feb '17 9:31:48 AM MoonByte
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* In ''VideoGame/Dishonored'', the BigBad and his henchman do this to Corvo via the methods of witch trials. They torture him for months, saying he can either confess he killed the empress (which he didn't) or die while staying silent. [[spoiler: Averted, they don't plan on killing him since they ''need'' his confession to have a scapegoat and claim unchallenged innocence themselves]].
4th Feb '17 9:17:22 AM MoonByte
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** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'', the ShowWithinAShow Opera has the main character Maria stuck between those. If she chooses her lover Draco, he will be killed by her fiancé Raul. If she chooses Raul, then Draco will kill himself out of heartbreak. She [[TakeAThirdOption takes a third option]] and loudly laments that she can't choose, resulting in the men duelling, Draco winning and the two lovers leaving as Raul laments that he had truly loved Maria.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.MortonsFork