History Main / MoralDissonance

20th May '18 5:38:54 AM Hjortron18
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->'''Jack Slate''': They were judge, jury, and executioner, all in one nasty package.\\
'''LetsPlay/{{Slowbeef}}''': That is YOU!

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->'''Jack Slate''': Slate:''' They were judge, jury, and executioner, all in one nasty package.\\
'''LetsPlay/{{Slowbeef}}''': '''LetsPlay/{{Slowbeef}}:''' That is YOU!
9th May '18 8:44:33 PM lalaTKG
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* Partially invoked in ''LightNovel/TheIrregularAtMagicHighSchool'', where Tatsuya's actions often border on extreme cynicism or even are openly immoral, due to the fact that as TheStoic he is literally devoid of any strong emotions other than caring for his sister. At the same time, some of his actions do not receive any assessment at all, even if they practically look like ideological fanaticism like the scene in volume 23, where Tatsuya with almost open text hinted that trying to destroy forced militarism in the world of magicians, he is ready to ignore and kill those magicians who genuinely want to be military. The only thing with which the author covers this, is this simple formula "if cynicism is portrayed as frightening, then it justifies its use by a formally good character".
** To a lesser extent, his sister Miyuki also suffers because of this, primarily because she is positioned as the only close friend of her brother and the only one in the family who does not look at him as an instrument or thing, or even announces his full dedication to him, but being BigBrotherWorship, it almost always tries to assign it to itself as BrotherSisterIncest {{Love Interest|s}}, ignoring his thoughts on this or even technically helping one BigBad of the series when [[spoiler: their ArrangedMarriage is used for [[RoyalInbreeding villainous purposes]].]] In fact, in one scene she even kills him (He has a unique ability that allows him to regenerate almost any deadly wounds) after suspicion that he became interested in other girls, or tries to seduce him with erotic clothes in another, while continuing to talk about how incest is evil and she is not going to push him to it. But nevertheless, the series almost always depicts her critical jealousy and open egoism only as a beautiful romantic passion.

to:

* Partially invoked in ''LightNovel/TheIrregularAtMagicHighSchool'', where Tatsuya's actions often border on extreme cynicism or even are openly immoral, due to the fact that as TheStoic he is literally devoid of any strong emotions other than caring for his sister. At the same time, some of his actions do not receive any assessment at all, even if they practically look like ideological fanaticism like the scene in fanaticism; volume 23, 23 for example has a scene where Tatsuya with (with almost open text text) hinted that at trying to destroy forced militarism in the world of magicians, he and is ready willing to ignore and kill those magicians who genuinely want to be military. The only thing with which time the author covers this, is this simple formula moment is in his commentary: "if cynicism is portrayed as frightening, then it justifies its use by a formally good character".
** To a lesser extent, his sister Miyuki also suffers because of this, primarily because she is positioned as the only Tatsuya's close friend of her brother and the only one in the family who does not look at him as an instrument or thing, or even announces his full dedication thing. However, her extreme devotion to him, but being BigBrotherWorship, it almost always tries to assign it to itself him as BrotherSisterIncest {{Love Interest|s}}, ignoring his a sister [[BrotherSisterIncest and]] as a LoveInterest, while portrayed positively in story, ignores Tatsuya's own thoughts on this or even technically helping helps one BigBad of the series when [[spoiler: their ArrangedMarriage is used for [[RoyalInbreeding villainous purposes]].]] In fact, in one scene she even kills him (He him[[note]] It's all good; [[DeathIsCheap he has a unique ability that allows him to regenerate almost any deadly wounds) wounds]][[/note]] after suspicion suspecting that he became interested in other girls, or tries to seduce him with erotic clothes in another, while continuing to talk about how incest is evil and she is not going to push him to into it. But nevertheless, Nevertheless, the series almost always depicts her critical jealousy and open egoism only as a beautiful romantic passion.
9th May '18 5:49:09 PM Dravencour
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* Most absurd version of this ([[CanonDiscontinuity that didn't actually happen]])? Franchise/SpiderMan made a ''[[DealWithTheDevil deal with]] ComicBook/{{Mephisto}}''. You know, [[{{Satan}} big demon guy]]? Makes deals with people and then screws them over? The deal in question? He wiped his and his wife's marriage from history, aborting their unborn baby in the process, just so his aunt who, even in terms of [[ComicBookTime comic book aging]] is older than the Bill of Rights, can recover from a gunshot wound to live for a couple more years before finally kicking the bucket. And to add insult to injury, she only got shot in the first place because Spidey revealed his SecretIdentity to the public, making the exact scenario he has been harping about ''for bloody years'' as to why he specifically shouldn't take off his mask. In other words, Aunt May was shot because of Peter's mistake and he was unwilling to take responsibility for his actions. And we were meant to think this act is heroic somehow. The Moral Dissonance? Spider-Man just about giving the Devil the chance to fiddle with RealityWarper powers instead of taking responsibility for her death goes completely against the saying "With Great Power ComesGreatResponsibility." (The most defining part of his entire character).

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* Most The most absurd version of this ([[CanonDiscontinuity that didn't actually happen]])? ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay.'' Franchise/SpiderMan made a ''[[DealWithTheDevil deal with]] ComicBook/{{Mephisto}}''. You know, [[{{Satan}} big demon guy]]? Makes deals with people and then screws them over? The deal in question? He wiped his and his wife's marriage from history, aborting their unborn baby in the process, just so his aunt who, even in terms of [[ComicBookTime comic book aging]] is older than the Bill of Rights, can recover from a gunshot wound to live for a couple more years before finally kicking the bucket. And to add insult to injury, she only got shot in the first place because Spidey revealed his SecretIdentity to the public, making the exact scenario he has been harping about ''for bloody years'' as to why he specifically shouldn't take off his mask. In other words, Aunt May was shot because of Peter's mistake and he was unwilling to take responsibility for his actions. And we were meant to think this act is heroic somehow. The Moral Dissonance? Spider-Man just about giving the Devil the chance to fiddle with RealityWarper powers instead of taking responsibility for her death goes completely against the saying "With Great Power ComesGreatResponsibility." (The most defining part of his entire character).
25th Apr '18 5:08:51 AM VIRID
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* DrowTales has an episode where the protagonist Ariel, despite eventually growing to oppose the institution of slavery, evolve some sort of morality and turning to a DesignatedHero, visits a surface colony (i.e a [[AmbiguouslyHuman Hermione]] village massacred and taken over) and has sex with her crush. During the blissful after-sex sleep they are woken up to a counterattack by desperate Hermione raiders coming to save their kin imprisoned in buildings who will be sold to slavers. The attackers are defeated, mocked and vilified for trying to save their kin from a lifetime of slavery while Ariel cheerfully ignores the villagers showing the Hermione captives who will be sold to slavers later on. To the earlier episodes where Ariel started to change into a hero challenging decadent oppression of the nobility, it looked like an [[KickTheDog episode to show how human subspecies were pitiful compared to Drow]].



* DrowTales has an episode where the protagonist Ariel, despite eventually growing to oppose the institution of slavery, evolve some sort of morality and turning to a DesignatedHero, visits a surface colony (i.e a [[AmbiguouslyHuman Hermione]] village massacred and taken over) and has sex with her crush. During the blissful after-sex sleep they are woken up to a counterattack by desperate Hermione raiders coming to save their kin imprisoned in buildings who will be sold to slavers. The attackers are defeated, mocked and vilified for trying to save their kin from a lifetime of slavery while Ariel cheerfully ignores the villagers showing the Hermione captives who will be sold to slavers later on. To the earlier episodes where Ariel started to change into a hero challenging decadent oppression of the nobility, it looked like an [[KickTheDog episode to show how human subspecies were pitiful compared to Drow]].

to:

* DrowTales has an episode where the protagonist Ariel, despite eventually growing to oppose the institution of slavery, evolve some sort of morality and turning to a DesignatedHero, visits a surface colony (i.e a [[AmbiguouslyHuman Hermione]] village massacred and taken over) and has sex with her crush. During the blissful after-sex sleep they are woken up to a counterattack by desperate Hermione raiders coming to save their kin imprisoned in buildings who will be sold to slavers. The attackers are defeated, mocked and vilified for trying to save their kin from a lifetime of slavery while Ariel cheerfully ignores the villagers showing the Hermione captives who will be sold to slavers later on. To the earlier episodes where Ariel started to change into a hero challenging decadent oppression of the nobility, it looked like an [[KickTheDog episode to show how human subspecies were pitiful compared to Drow]].
25th Apr '18 5:07:36 AM VIRID
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* [[DrowTales]] has an episode where the protagonist Ariel, despite eventually growing to oppose the institution of slavery, evolve some sort of morality and turning to a DesignatedHero, visits a surface colony (i.e a [[AmbiguouslyHuman Hermione]] village massacred and taken over) and has sex with her crush. During the blissful after-sex sleep they are woken up to a counterattack by desperate Hermione raiders coming to save their kin imprisoned in buildings who will be sold to slavers. The attackers are defeated, mocked and vilified for trying to save their kin from a lifetime of slavery while Ariel cheerfully ignores the villagers showing the Hermione captives who will be sold to slavers later on. To the earlier episodes where Ariel started to change into a hero challenging decadent oppression of the nobility, it looked like an [[KickTheDog episode to show how human subspecies were pitiful compared to Drow]].

to:

* [[DrowTales]] DrowTales has an episode where the protagonist Ariel, despite eventually growing to oppose the institution of slavery, evolve some sort of morality and turning to a DesignatedHero, visits a surface colony (i.e a [[AmbiguouslyHuman Hermione]] village massacred and taken over) and has sex with her crush. During the blissful after-sex sleep they are woken up to a counterattack by desperate Hermione raiders coming to save their kin imprisoned in buildings who will be sold to slavers. The attackers are defeated, mocked and vilified for trying to save their kin from a lifetime of slavery while Ariel cheerfully ignores the villagers showing the Hermione captives who will be sold to slavers later on. To the earlier episodes where Ariel started to change into a hero challenging decadent oppression of the nobility, it looked like an [[KickTheDog episode to show how human subspecies were pitiful compared to Drow]].
25th Apr '18 5:07:04 AM VIRID
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* [[Drowtales]] has an episode where the protagonist Ariel, despite eventually growing to oppose the institution of slavery, evolve some sort of morality and turning to a [[DesignatedHero]], visits a surface colony (i.e a [[AmbiguouslyHuman Hermione]] village massacred and taken over) and has sex with her crush. During the blissful after-sex sleep they are woken up to a counterattack by desperate Hermione raiders coming to save their kin imprisoned in buildings who will be sold to slavers. The attackers are defeated, mocked and vilified for trying to save their kin from a lifetime of slavery while Ariel cheerfully ignores the villagers showing the Hermione captives who will be sold to slavers later on. To the earlier episodes where Ariel started to change into a hero challenging decadent oppression of the nobility, it looked like an [[KickTheDog episode to show how human subspecies were pitiful compared to Drow]].

to:

* [[Drowtales]] [[DrowTales]] has an episode where the protagonist Ariel, despite eventually growing to oppose the institution of slavery, evolve some sort of morality and turning to a [[DesignatedHero]], DesignatedHero, visits a surface colony (i.e a [[AmbiguouslyHuman Hermione]] village massacred and taken over) and has sex with her crush. During the blissful after-sex sleep they are woken up to a counterattack by desperate Hermione raiders coming to save their kin imprisoned in buildings who will be sold to slavers. The attackers are defeated, mocked and vilified for trying to save their kin from a lifetime of slavery while Ariel cheerfully ignores the villagers showing the Hermione captives who will be sold to slavers later on. To the earlier episodes where Ariel started to change into a hero challenging decadent oppression of the nobility, it looked like an [[KickTheDog episode to show how human subspecies were pitiful compared to Drow]].
25th Apr '18 5:06:27 AM VIRID
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to:

* [[Drowtales]] has an episode where the protagonist Ariel, despite eventually growing to oppose the institution of slavery, evolve some sort of morality and turning to a [[DesignatedHero]], visits a surface colony (i.e a [[AmbiguouslyHuman Hermione]] village massacred and taken over) and has sex with her crush. During the blissful after-sex sleep they are woken up to a counterattack by desperate Hermione raiders coming to save their kin imprisoned in buildings who will be sold to slavers. The attackers are defeated, mocked and vilified for trying to save their kin from a lifetime of slavery while Ariel cheerfully ignores the villagers showing the Hermione captives who will be sold to slavers later on. To the earlier episodes where Ariel started to change into a hero challenging decadent oppression of the nobility, it looked like an [[KickTheDog episode to show how human subspecies were pitiful compared to Drow]].
27th Mar '18 10:37:16 AM TheNerevarine
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Added DiffLines:

* The Assassins are really prone to this in the ''Franchise/AssassinsCreed'' series. Though claiming to be a society devoted to achieving peace through individual freedom and personal responsibility, over the ages they found themselves siding with expansionist and dominating powers in their goals to stop the Templars, such as brokering a truce with Ottoman Empire in ''VideoGame/AssassinsCreedRevelations'' which in turn sent Wallachian assassin Vali cel Tradat and the Shia Turkman Shahkulu into the arms of the Templars. This is discussed in ''VideoGame/AssassinsCreedRogue'' when Shay asks Liam how can the Order support France during the UsefulNotes/SevenYearsWar while at the same time they have slaves in Haiti, which contradicts with their creed.
24th Mar '18 12:48:18 PM merotoker
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With an OmniscientMoralityLicense the old Mentor character, especially a TricksterMentor, or in some cases, {{God}} himself if having JerkassGod tendency, can do ''anything'' because of their [[GambitRoulette absolute knowledge over what will occur]]. Anyone else even approaching that level of arrogance would be [[BreakTheHaughty smacked by the plot]] [[HumiliationConga and smacked hard]]. Obviously {{Sociopathic Hero}}es are exempt as they are expected to act this way.

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With an OmniscientMoralityLicense the old Mentor character, especially a TricksterMentor, or in some cases, {{God}} himself if having JerkassGod {{Jerkass God|s}} tendency, can do ''anything'' because of their [[GambitRoulette absolute knowledge over what will occur]]. Anyone else even approaching that level of arrogance would be [[BreakTheHaughty smacked by the plot]] [[HumiliationConga and smacked hard]]. Obviously {{Sociopathic Hero}}es are exempt as they are expected to act this way.



** To a lesser extent, his sister Miyuki also suffers because of this, primarily because she is positioned as the only close friend of her brother and the only one in the family who does not look at him as an instrument or thing, or even announces his full dedication to him, but being BigBrotherWorship, it almost always tries to assign it to itself as BrotherSisterIncest LoveInterest, ignoring his thoughts on this or even technically helping one BigBad of the series when [[spoiler: their ArrangedMarriage is used for [[RoyalInbreeding villainous purposes]].]] In fact, in one scene she even kills him (He has a unique ability that allows him to regenerate almost any deadly wounds) after suspicion that he became interested in other girls, or tries to seduce him with erotic clothes in another, while continuing to talk about how incest is evil and she is not going to push him to it. But nevertheless, the series almost always depicts her critical jealousy and open egoism only as a beautiful romantic passion.


to:

** To a lesser extent, his sister Miyuki also suffers because of this, primarily because she is positioned as the only close friend of her brother and the only one in the family who does not look at him as an instrument or thing, or even announces his full dedication to him, but being BigBrotherWorship, it almost always tries to assign it to itself as BrotherSisterIncest LoveInterest, {{Love Interest|s}}, ignoring his thoughts on this or even technically helping one BigBad of the series when [[spoiler: their ArrangedMarriage is used for [[RoyalInbreeding villainous purposes]].]] In fact, in one scene she even kills him (He has a unique ability that allows him to regenerate almost any deadly wounds) after suspicion that he became interested in other girls, or tries to seduce him with erotic clothes in another, while continuing to talk about how incest is evil and she is not going to push him to it. But nevertheless, the series almost always depicts her critical jealousy and open egoism only as a beautiful romantic passion.

passion.



* Most absurd version of this ([[CanonDiscontinuity that didn't actually happen]])? Franchise/SpiderMan made a ''[[DealWithTheDevil deal with]] [[{{Satan}} Mephisto]]''. You know, big demon guy? Makes deals with people and then screws them over? The deal in question? He wiped his and his wife's marriage from history, aborting their unborn baby in the process, just so his aunt who, even in terms of [[ComicBookTime comic book aging]] is older than the Bill of Rights, can recover from a gunshot wound to live for a couple more years before finally kicking the bucket. And to add insult to injury, she only got shot in the first place because Spidey revealed his SecretIdentity to the public, making the exact scenario he has been harping about ''for bloody years'' as to why he specifically shouldn't take off his mask. In other words, Aunt May was shot because of Peter's mistake and he was unwilling to take responsibility for his actions. And we were meant to think this act is heroic somehow. The Moral Dissonance? Spider-Man just about giving the Devil the chance to fiddle with RealityWarper powers instead of taking responsibility for her death goes completely against the saying "With Great Power ComesGreatResponsibility." (The most defining part of his entire character).
* Marginal example: Most superheroes in the Franchise/MarvelUniverse don't get along with ComicBook/ThePunisher because he kills the bad guys, but are A-okay with ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} who does the same thing. Marginal because part of the reason is likely that Wolverine doesn't enjoy killing and usually has a fairly rational reason for doing so (usually either self-defense, in the context of a war, or ItsPersonal) while The Punisher, if he has any feelings towards the matter at hand, enjoys it and seeks out people to murder as his standard way of crime fighting, but still an example due to both being unrepentant killers (if of significantly differing degrees of moral culpability and dangerousness). Also because for the Punisher, lethal force is the first option, for Wolverine it's usually the last. (It was different when Wolverine was ''introduced,'' but CharacterizationMarchesOn, and when he ''was'' more Punisher-y, nobody wanted to work with Wolvie either.)
* ''ComicBook/AvengersVsXMen'': In the end, the Phoenix Five are punished, with Cyclops being regarded as a war criminal. Never mind the fact that they were mind controlled by the Phoenix and shouldn't be held responsible, but many of the people condemning them for their actions have ''also'' committed crimes while not themselves, but also ComicBook/CaptainAmerica's behavior during the whole debacle is very similar to the way [[ComicBook/IronMan Tony Stark]] acted during ''ComicBook/CivilWar'', which Cap was violently against.

to:

* Most absurd version of this ([[CanonDiscontinuity that didn't actually happen]])? Franchise/SpiderMan made a ''[[DealWithTheDevil deal with]] ComicBook/{{Mephisto}}''. You know, [[{{Satan}} Mephisto]]''. You know, big demon guy? guy]]? Makes deals with people and then screws them over? The deal in question? He wiped his and his wife's marriage from history, aborting their unborn baby in the process, just so his aunt who, even in terms of [[ComicBookTime comic book aging]] is older than the Bill of Rights, can recover from a gunshot wound to live for a couple more years before finally kicking the bucket. And to add insult to injury, she only got shot in the first place because Spidey revealed his SecretIdentity to the public, making the exact scenario he has been harping about ''for bloody years'' as to why he specifically shouldn't take off his mask. In other words, Aunt May was shot because of Peter's mistake and he was unwilling to take responsibility for his actions. And we were meant to think this act is heroic somehow. The Moral Dissonance? Spider-Man just about giving the Devil the chance to fiddle with RealityWarper powers instead of taking responsibility for her death goes completely against the saying "With Great Power ComesGreatResponsibility." (The most defining part of his entire character).
* Marginal example: Most superheroes in the Franchise/MarvelUniverse don't get along with ComicBook/ThePunisher because he kills the bad guys, but are A-okay with ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} Franchise/{{Wolverine}} who does the same thing. Marginal because part of the reason is likely that Wolverine doesn't enjoy killing and usually has a fairly rational reason for doing so (usually either self-defense, in the context of a war, or ItsPersonal) while The Punisher, if he has any feelings towards the matter at hand, enjoys it and seeks out people to murder as his standard way of crime fighting, but still an example due to both being unrepentant killers (if of significantly differing degrees of moral culpability and dangerousness). Also because for the Punisher, lethal force is the first option, for Wolverine it's usually the last. (It was different when Wolverine was ''introduced,'' but CharacterizationMarchesOn, and when he ''was'' more Punisher-y, nobody wanted to work with Wolvie either.)
* ''ComicBook/AvengersVsXMen'': In the end, the Phoenix Five are punished, with Cyclops ComicBook/{{Cyclops}} being regarded as a war criminal. Never mind the fact that they were mind controlled by the Phoenix and shouldn't be held responsible, but many of the people condemning them for their actions have ''also'' committed crimes while not themselves, but also ComicBook/CaptainAmerica's behavior during the whole debacle is very similar to the way [[ComicBook/IronMan Tony Stark]] acted during ''ComicBook/CivilWar'', which Cap was violently against.



** In ''Series/PowerRangersInSpace,'' the Megazord goes completely medieval on MonsterOfTheWeek Clawhammer, who was attacking them, to be sure... but maybe ripping out his tendrils, kicking him repeatedly in the groin, and throwing him into lava was ''a tad excessive.'' Maybe whatever Clawhammer had done in the SuperSentai episode the fight footage came from was a ''lot'' more evil than his ''Power Rangers'' actions of simply being a [[MakeMyMonsterGrow literal]] GiantMook. Even worse, Clawhammer was just a mindless alien predator that didn't even work for [[BigBad Astronema]]. Sure, you could blame Astronema for siccing the creature on the Rangers, but in the end, it was just someone who was dragged into the fight against its will. (As for the sentai version, the corresponding monster ''was'' created by the main villains, and was killed by being thrown into a volcano because he was made of a metal their weapons couldn't penetrate. Still no excuse for the tendril ripping and GroinAttack; it's not like he'd done something above and beyond the call of MonsterOfTheWeek nastiness. ''If'' there's such a thing as using excessive force against a monster trying to kill you, both teams used it that day.)

to:

** In ''Series/PowerRangersInSpace,'' the Megazord goes completely medieval on MonsterOfTheWeek Clawhammer, who was attacking them, to be sure... but maybe ripping out his tendrils, kicking him repeatedly in the groin, and throwing him into lava was ''a tad excessive.'' Maybe whatever Clawhammer had done in the SuperSentai Franchise/SuperSentai episode the fight footage came from was a ''lot'' more evil than his ''Power Rangers'' actions of simply being a [[MakeMyMonsterGrow literal]] GiantMook. Even worse, Clawhammer was just a mindless alien predator that didn't even work for [[BigBad Astronema]]. Sure, you could blame Astronema for siccing the creature on the Rangers, but in the end, it was just someone who was dragged into the fight against its will. (As for the sentai version, the corresponding monster ''was'' created by the main villains, and was killed by being thrown into a volcano because he was made of a metal their weapons couldn't penetrate. Still no excuse for the tendril ripping and GroinAttack; it's not like he'd done something above and beyond the call of MonsterOfTheWeek nastiness. ''If'' there's such a thing as using excessive force against a monster trying to kill you, both teams used it that day.)



* In the ''Series/BlakesSeven'' episode "[[{{Recap/BlakesSevenS4E10Gold}} Gold]]", the Seven decide to steal some gold from the planet Zerok, which isn't even part of the [[EvilEmpire Federation]] (okay, they trade with them, but that's stretching the point). In the process they are responsible directly or indirectly for the death of at least fifteen security guards who were just doing their job, one of whom actually had his weapon lowered and could easily have been taken prisoner. Then, their ally Keillor kills a doctor who was trying to raise the alarm and they all treat this as a [[MoralEventHorizon heinous crime]]. The stated reason that he wasn't armed doesn't really hold water. Apparently the moral is it's okay to kill innocent bystanders if they're carrying guns.

to:

* In the ''Series/BlakesSeven'' episode "[[{{Recap/BlakesSevenS4E10Gold}} "[[Recap/BlakesSevenS4E10Gold Gold]]", the Seven decide to steal some gold from the planet Zerok, which isn't even part of the [[EvilEmpire Federation]] (okay, they trade with them, but that's stretching the point). In the process they are responsible directly or indirectly for the death of at least fifteen security guards who were just doing their job, one of whom actually had his weapon lowered and could easily have been taken prisoner. Then, their ally Keillor kills a doctor who was trying to raise the alarm and they all treat this as a [[MoralEventHorizon heinous crime]]. The stated reason that he wasn't armed doesn't really hold water. Apparently the moral is it's okay to kill innocent bystanders if they're carrying guns.



** Apparently, it is not okay for Chloe to protect Clark's secret from Lana but it is okay [[spoiler:for Lana to lock her into a freezing cellar to trick Clark into revealing his powers. She doesn't even know that he has SuperStrength. She only witnessed his invulnerability (and she isn't even sure what she saw).]] She also does a lot of other stuff like [[spoiler:holding Lionel captive, spying and almost killing Lex.]] Seriously, the only thing that stops her from being a complete unsympathetic villain is that [[ComicBook/LexLuthor Lex]] [[KickTheSonOfABitch isn't exactly a nice person]]. She is still portrayed as Clark's [[CreatorsPet perfect girlfriend]].

to:

** Apparently, it is not okay for Chloe to protect Clark's secret from Lana but it is okay [[spoiler:for Lana to lock her into a freezing cellar to trick Clark into revealing his powers. She doesn't even know that he has SuperStrength. She only witnessed his invulnerability (and she isn't even sure what she saw).]] saw)]]. She also does a lot of other stuff like [[spoiler:holding Lionel captive, spying and almost killing Lex.]] Seriously, the only thing that stops her from being a complete unsympathetic villain is that [[ComicBook/LexLuthor Lex]] [[KickTheSonOfABitch isn't exactly a nice person]]. She is still portrayed as Clark's [[CreatorsPet perfect girlfriend]].



** The Justice League, especially Clark, treating Tess like family, despite her attempting to murder Chloe and Lana, and successfully murdering others, including [[spoiler: Livewire]], who was a mere car thief as opposed to the murderous supervillain she is in the comics, [[MoralEventHorizon simply for defying her.]] Clark had personally promised Bette that Tess would pay for her crimes, only to forget that promise because he felt her heart was in the right place.

to:

** The Justice League, especially Clark, [[EasilyForgiven treating Tess like family, despite her attempting to murder Chloe and Lana, and successfully murdering others, others]], including [[spoiler: Livewire]], who was a mere car thief as opposed to the murderous supervillain she is in the comics, [[MoralEventHorizon simply for defying her.]] Clark had personally promised Bette that Tess would pay for her crimes, only to forget that promise because he felt her heart was in the right place.



* For most of ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'', the heroes operate by a strict code of not killing normal humans. That is, until the arrival of the evil priest Caleb in the last few episodes of the show, where it turns into more "Killing people is wrong, unless I really, really want to."

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* ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'':
**
For most of ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'', the series, the heroes operate by a strict code of not killing normal humans. That is, until the arrival of the evil priest Caleb in the last few episodes of the show, where it turns into more "Killing people is wrong, unless I really, really want to."



* It's A-OK for [[TheScrappy Hornswoggle]] to get involved in other people's matches and wreck other people's stuff but when the heels finally put the little punk in his place we're supposed to believe they're the bad guys. Made even more disturbing when he interfered in that 8-diva tag match. He was trying to drag {{Wrestling/Lay|Cool}}la '''under the ring''' [[BlackComedyRape and presumably have his way with her]]. Michelle saving her friend from getting raped by a leprechaun should get her a medal.

to:

* It's A-OK for [[TheScrappy Hornswoggle]] to get involved in other people's matches and wreck other people's stuff but when the heels finally put the little punk in his place we're supposed to believe they're the bad guys. Made even more disturbing when he interfered in that 8-diva tag match. He was trying to drag {{Wrestling/Lay|Cool}}la {{Wrestling/Layla}} '''under the ring''' [[BlackComedyRape and presumably have his way with her]]. Michelle saving her friend from getting raped by a leprechaun should get her a medal.



* In the spring of 2001, Wrestling/KurtAngle and Wrestling/ChrisBenoit were involved in a feud which included [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XLPz6_zc6Xw#t=258s Benoit taking Angle's medals]]. Angle was a heel at the time, so everyone cheered. A few months later a heel Austin [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HmgROZXfyU would do the same exact thing]], only this time it was PlayedForDrama.
* Wrestling/AJLee: is this trope cranked UpToEleven in 2012, so much so that it's starting to come off as a KarmaHoudini. A.J. emotionally manipulated Wrestling/CMPunk, [[Wrestling/BryanDanielson Daniel Bryan]], and Wrestling/{{Kane}} for weeks, breeding partly needless animosity between them and putting their lives in danger at one point. She also accepted Daniel Bryan's marriage proposal, only to [[ILied reveal at the last minute that it wasn't going to happen]]. Now that she's in charge of the entire ''[[Wrestling/WWERaw Monday Night Raw]]'', she's continuing to do much of the above ''plus'' acts as a petty tyrant who is constantly putting wrestlers she doesn't like [[KickTheSonOfABitch (admittedly, they]] ''[[KickTheSonOfABitch are]]'' [[KickTheSonOfABitch heels]], although it doesn't mean what it used to) into painful or humiliating situations just because [[FelonyMisdemeanor she's offended by the word "crazy"]] (which these characters don't always use to refer specifically to her). Even CM Punk has begun calling her out for this behavior, only for the other "good" characters to simply dismiss him or call him out in turn. Through all of this, A.J. has remained a ''de facto'' {{Face}}, with all of her {{Jerkass}} tendencies being {{handwave}}d as just A.J. being her naturally quirky self.
** It's egregious enough that WWE.com [[http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/2012-08-20/aj-lee-unstable-power-hungry-26047374 has an article asking if she's unstable or power-hungry]]. Said article even singles out another fault. The night after ''Wrestling/SummerSlam 2012'', AJ booked a rematch between Wrestling/DolphZiggler and Wrestling/ChrisJericho, and decided seemingly on a whim to put Ziggler's World Heavyweight Championship Money in the Bank contract and Jericho's job on the line. This was bad enough without adding, as the article does, that she told Wrestling/AlbertoDelRio earlier in the night that she couldn't name him #1 contender for the World Heavyweight Championship because she didn't have jurisdiction over that title, as that was Wrestling/BookerT's territory on ''Wrestling/SmackDown''. Dolph won the match and Jericho went back to Fozzy, but AJ overreaching and almost screwing Dolph out of his dream chance was enough to rile up Wrestling/VickieGuerrero, who never liked her in the first place, into campaigning to get her fired.
* There's also plenty of this to find with Wrestling/JohnCena and Wrestling/{{Sheamus}}.
** The most flagrant example in the former's case came in his feud against Rusev over the United States Championship. The story very obviously was that Rusev was an evil foreign heel and Cena was the All American Baby face, the rationale clearly being that anything that Cena did was good because Cena was the good guy. Which rang a little hollow, as Rusev was practically an anti-villain, whose most evil actions were clobbering a "soldier" plant who rushed him, winning his matches by beating up his opponents, and talking trash in a wrestling ring. The RAW after Rusev beat Cena at Fast Lane, when Rusev's valet, Lana, [[DickDastardlyStopsToCheat interfered in a match he was already handily winning]], Rusev was walking backstage on his way out to the ring when Cena stopped him. Cena explained to Rusev that, in America, people have the right to free speech, but if Rusev said mean things about America, Cena would beat him up. Leaving aside Cena's complete lack of understand of what a right is or how they work, what happened was even worse. Rusev did the usual foreign heel schtick of insulting America, Cena ran out and jumped him, beat him unconscious, and then put the unconscious Rusev in a submission hold until a crying Lana agreed to give Cena a rematch against Rusev, for the US Championship, at Wrestlemania. Note: Cena was ostensibly the ''babyface'' the audience was supposed to cheer for in this feud.
* In a backstage segment on ''[=SmackDown=]'' in late 2007, Kristal Marshall was planning her wedding to General Manager Theodore Long and telling Wrestling/TorrieWilson and [=Michelle McCool=] that she had chosen them as bridesmaids. Then [[Wrestling/LisaMarieVaron Victoria]] (who was a heel for most of her WWE career, but highly respected by the fans for her wrestling prowess) showed up and expressed joy that she, too, might be maid a bridesmaid. [=McCool=] promptly told Victoria that ''nobody'' would ever let her be a bridesmaid, which seemed excessively cruel. What made this worse were the UnfortunateImplications involved: Victoria could have already been seen as an outsider due to her large size (making her [[HollywoodPudgy "fat"]] and [[HollywoodHomely "ugly"]] in the eyes of more petite Divas) and [[AmbiguouslyBrown dark, vaguely "ethnic" appearance]] (part Turkish, Puerto Rican, and Italian, while Wilson and [=McCool=] are both blondes and even Marshall, who's black, has relatively light skin and almost blonde hair), making [=McCool=]'s bullying arguably not only sadistic but a form of coded hate speech. This is only backed up by the fact that Victoria had been going through a gradual derailment into a JokeCharacter for years which showed no sign of stopping after this segment, and by the Wrestling/LayCool run over two years later in which [=McCool=] and [[Wrestling/{{Layla}} Layla El]] would play the "callous bullying full of UnfortunateImplications" role straight as heels.

to:

* In the spring of 2001, Wrestling/KurtAngle and Wrestling/ChrisBenoit were involved in a feud which included [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XLPz6_zc6Xw#t=258s dailymotion.com/video/x76eif Benoit taking Angle's medals]]. Angle was a heel at the time, so everyone cheered. A few months later a heel Austin [[http://www.Wrestling/StoneColdSteveAustin [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HmgROZXfyU com/watch?v=HQKVytB4XHY would do the same exact thing]], only this time it was PlayedForDrama.
* Wrestling/AJLee: is this trope cranked UpToEleven in 2012, so much so that it's starting to come off as a KarmaHoudini. A.J. emotionally manipulated Wrestling/CMPunk, [[Wrestling/BryanDanielson Daniel Bryan]], and Wrestling/{{Kane}} for weeks, breeding partly needless animosity between them and putting their lives in danger at one point. She also accepted Daniel Bryan's marriage proposal, only to [[ILied reveal at the last minute that it wasn't going to happen]]. Now that she's in charge of the entire ''[[Wrestling/WWERaw Monday Night Raw]]'', she's continuing to do much of the above ''plus'' acts as a petty tyrant who is constantly putting wrestlers she doesn't like [[KickTheSonOfABitch (admittedly, they]] ''[[KickTheSonOfABitch are]]'' [[KickTheSonOfABitch heels]], although it doesn't mean what it used to) into painful or humiliating situations just because [[FelonyMisdemeanor she's offended by the word "crazy"]] (which these characters don't always use to refer specifically to her). Even CM Punk has begun calling her out for this behavior, only for the other "good" characters to simply dismiss him or call him out in turn. Through all of this, A.J. has remained a ''de facto'' {{Face}}, with all of her {{Jerkass}} tendencies being {{handwave}}d as just A.J. being her naturally quirky self.
**
self.\\
\\
It's egregious enough that WWE.com [[http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/2012-08-20/aj-lee-unstable-power-hungry-26047374 com/shows/raw/2012-08-20/aj-lee-unstable-power-hungry has an article asking if she's unstable or power-hungry]]. Said article even singles out another fault. The night after ''Wrestling/SummerSlam 2012'', Wrestling/SummerSlam 2012, AJ booked a rematch between Wrestling/DolphZiggler and Wrestling/ChrisJericho, and decided seemingly on a whim to put Ziggler's World Heavyweight Championship Money in the Bank contract and Jericho's job on the line. This was bad enough without adding, as the article does, that she told Wrestling/AlbertoDelRio earlier in the night that she couldn't name him #1 contender for the World Heavyweight Championship because she didn't have jurisdiction over that title, as that was Wrestling/BookerT's territory on ''Wrestling/SmackDown''.''Wrestling/WWESmackDown''. Dolph won the match and Jericho went back to Fozzy, but AJ overreaching and almost screwing Dolph out of his dream chance was enough to rile up Wrestling/VickieGuerrero, who never liked her in the first place, into campaigning to get her fired.
* There's also plenty of this to find with Wrestling/JohnCena and Wrestling/{{Sheamus}}.
**
Wrestling/{{Sheamus}}. The most flagrant example in the former's case came in his feud against Rusev Wrestling/{{Rusev|AndLana}} over the United States Championship. The story very obviously was that Rusev was an evil foreign heel and Cena was the All American Baby face, the rationale clearly being that anything that Cena did was good because Cena was the good guy. Which rang a little hollow, as Rusev was practically an anti-villain, whose most evil actions were clobbering a "soldier" plant who rushed him, winning his matches by beating up his opponents, and talking trash in a wrestling ring. The RAW after Rusev beat Cena at Fast Lane, when Rusev's valet, Lana, [[DickDastardlyStopsToCheat interfered in a match he was already handily winning]], Rusev was walking backstage on his way out to the ring when Cena stopped him. Cena explained to Rusev that, in America, people have the right to free speech, but if Rusev said mean things about America, Cena would beat him up. Leaving aside Cena's complete lack of understand of what a right is or how they work, what happened was even worse. Rusev did the usual foreign heel schtick of insulting America, Cena ran out and jumped him, beat him unconscious, and then put the unconscious Rusev in a submission hold until a crying Lana agreed to give Cena a rematch against Rusev, for the US Championship, at Wrestlemania. Note: Cena was ostensibly the ''babyface'' the audience was supposed to cheer for in this feud.
* In a backstage segment on ''[=SmackDown=]'' in late 2007, Kristal Marshall was planning her wedding to General Manager Theodore Long and telling Wrestling/TorrieWilson and [=Michelle McCool=] Wrestling/MichelleMcCool that she had chosen them as bridesmaids. Then [[Wrestling/LisaMarieVaron Victoria]] (who was a heel for most of her WWE career, but highly respected by the fans for her wrestling prowess) showed up and expressed joy that she, too, might be maid a bridesmaid. [=McCool=] promptly told Victoria that ''nobody'' would ever let her be a bridesmaid, which seemed excessively cruel. What made this worse were the UnfortunateImplications involved: Victoria could have already been seen as an outsider due to her large size (making her [[HollywoodPudgy "fat"]] and [[HollywoodHomely "ugly"]] in the eyes of more petite Divas) and [[AmbiguouslyBrown dark, vaguely "ethnic" appearance]] (part Turkish, Puerto Rican, and Italian, while Wilson and [=McCool=] are both blondes and even Marshall, who's black, has relatively light skin and almost blonde hair), making [=McCool=]'s bullying arguably not only sadistic but a form of coded hate speech. This is only backed up by the fact that Victoria had been going through a gradual derailment into a JokeCharacter for years which showed no sign of stopping after this segment, and by the Wrestling/LayCool run over two years later in which [=McCool=] and [[Wrestling/{{Layla}} Layla El]] would play the "callous bullying full of UnfortunateImplications" role straight as heels.



* Parodied and {{Lampshaded}} in the ''WesternAnimation/TimeSquad'' episode "Ivan the Untrainable".

to:

* Parodied and {{Lampshaded}} {{lampshade|Hanging}}d in the ''WesternAnimation/TimeSquad'' episode "Ivan the Untrainable".
21st Mar '18 3:51:31 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'': The [[IdealHero paragon option]] has [[PlayerCharacter Commander Shepard]] condemning looting as immoral. This is so at odds with {{gameplay|And Story Segregation}}, which all but requires [[KleptomaniacHero taking everything of value that isn't nailed down]] (even in the very apartment said looter were busy clearing), nor penalize it with the KarmaMeter, it's almost funny. Of course, as a Citadel SPECTRE, Shephard ''does'' have legal authorization to perform "on the spot requisitions" if it will assist in his/her missions, while the looters are just trying to line their pockets, so the difference isn't so much in what they are doing as it is why they are doing it.
** Played for laughs in Samara's recruitment mission: the Asari police captain refused orders to take Samara (an asari Justicar) into custody because Samara would have to kill her (long story). Shepard praises her for refusing orders that are tantamount to suicide. Shepard's teammates are quick to remind them "Hey, aren't YOU ordering us on a suicide mission?"

to:

* ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'': The [[IdealHero paragon option]] has [[PlayerCharacter Commander Shepard]] condemning looting as immoral. This is so at odds with {{gameplay|And Story Segregation}}, which all but requires [[KleptomaniacHero taking everything of value that isn't nailed down]] (even in the very apartment said looter were busy clearing), nor penalize it with the KarmaMeter, it's almost funny. Of course, as As a Citadel SPECTRE, Shephard ''does'' have legal authorization to perform "on the spot requisitions" if it will assist in his/her their missions, while the looters are just trying to line their pockets, so the difference isn't so much but this is never given as a reason. ''VideoGame/MassEffectAndromeda'' puts [[PlayerCharacter Ryder]] in what they are doing as it is why they are doing it.
** Played for laughs in Samara's recruitment mission: the Asari police captain refused orders to take Samara (an asari Justicar) into custody because Samara would have to kill her (long story). Shepard praises her for refusing orders that are tantamount to suicide. Shepard's teammates are quick to remind them "Hey, aren't YOU ordering us
a similar position, except [[WhatTheHellHero they're called out on a suicide mission?"it]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.MoralDissonance