History Main / MoralDissonance

7th Dec '17 5:05:59 PM nombretomado
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-->-- ''Let's Play DeadToRights: Retribution''

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-->-- ''Let's Play DeadToRights: VideoGame/DeadToRights: Retribution''
23rd Nov '17 1:03:56 PM MBG
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* As ''Webcomic/AwkwardZombie'' [[http://www.awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=092208 pointed out]], the good guys in the ''VideoGame/AdvanceWars'' series (pre-''[[DarkerAndEdgier Days of Ruin]]'', anyway) are quite cheerful and moral and often lambast the bad guys for their lack of respect for life... and then turn around and, with [[MildlyMilitary their usual casual air,]] have "practice battles" with each other [[InferredHolocaust that appear to use live ammo.]]
4th Nov '17 11:07:34 PM BattleMaster
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* ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'': The [[IdealHero paragon option]] has [[PlayerCharacter Commander Shepard]] condemning looting as immoral. This is so at odds with {{gameplay|And Story Segregation}}, which all but requires [[KleptomaniacHero taking everything of value that isn't nailed down]], nor penalize it with the KarmaMeter, it's almost funny. Of course, as a Citadel SPECTRE, Shephard ''does'' have legal authorization to perform "on the spot requisitions" if it will assist in his/her missions, while the looters are just trying to line their pockets, so the difference isn't so much in what they are doing as it is why they are doing it.

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* ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'': The [[IdealHero paragon option]] has [[PlayerCharacter Commander Shepard]] condemning looting as immoral. This is so at odds with {{gameplay|And Story Segregation}}, which all but requires [[KleptomaniacHero taking everything of value that isn't nailed down]], down]] (even in the very apartment said looter were busy clearing), nor penalize it with the KarmaMeter, it's almost funny. Of course, as a Citadel SPECTRE, Shephard ''does'' have legal authorization to perform "on the spot requisitions" if it will assist in his/her missions, while the looters are just trying to line their pockets, so the difference isn't so much in what they are doing as it is why they are doing it.
9th Oct '17 8:32:56 AM ClintEastwood
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** Then again, years later the ''Twelfth'' Doctor decides '''not''' to interfere with a point in time that's in flux in "Kill the Moon", and let humanity decide its own fate -- leaving his companion Clara in charge, believing that she/humanity can and will make the best choice under the circumstances. She does, but then chews out and temporarily abandons him, leaving him ''friendless'', for not just taking care of things himself! So much for not sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong. (In general, Twelve [[WhatTheHellHero gets called out a lot more often for his more morally dubious actions and attitudes than his predecessors]].)

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** Then again, years later the ''Twelfth'' Doctor decides '''not''' to interfere with a point in time that's in flux in "Kill "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS34E7KillTheMoon Kill the Moon", Moon]]", and let humanity decide its own fate -- leaving his companion Clara in charge, believing that she/humanity can and will make the best choice under the circumstances. She does, but then chews out and temporarily abandons him, leaving him ''friendless'', for not just taking care of things himself! So much for not sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong. (In general, Twelve [[WhatTheHellHero gets called out a lot more often for his more morally dubious actions and attitudes than his predecessors]].)



* In the ''Series/BlakesSeven'' episode "Gold", the Seven decide to steal some gold from the planet Zerok, which isn't even part of the [[EvilEmpire Federation]] (okay, they trade with them, but that's stretching the point). In the process they are responsible directly or indirectly for the death of at least fifteen security guards who were just doing their job, one of whom actually had his weapon lowered and could easily have been taken prisoner. Then, their ally Keillor kills a doctor who was trying to raise the alarm and they all treat this as a [[MoralEventHorizon heinous crime]]. The stated reason that he wasn't armed doesn't really hold water. Apparently the moral is it's okay to kill innocent bystanders if they're carrying guns.

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* In the ''Series/BlakesSeven'' episode "Gold", "[[{{Recap/BlakesSevenS4E10Gold}} Gold]]", the Seven decide to steal some gold from the planet Zerok, which isn't even part of the [[EvilEmpire Federation]] (okay, they trade with them, but that's stretching the point). In the process they are responsible directly or indirectly for the death of at least fifteen security guards who were just doing their job, one of whom actually had his weapon lowered and could easily have been taken prisoner. Then, their ally Keillor kills a doctor who was trying to raise the alarm and they all treat this as a [[MoralEventHorizon heinous crime]]. The stated reason that he wasn't armed doesn't really hold water. Apparently the moral is it's okay to kill innocent bystanders if they're carrying guns.



** In "Doppelgangland" after defeating an alternative universe vampire Willow the gang actually return her unrestrained to her home universe. While she's instantly killed they had no way of knowing that that would be the case. For all they knew they were sending a vampire back to kill other innocents just because it looked like Willow.
** Leaving Spike alive at all after his chipping despite his continuing attempts at killing the Scoobies (and others) and working with Adam to try to destroy them. The same could be said for the demons and vampires and Willie's Bar. And Caritas in Angel the Series. There's a lot of hypocrisy in those series'.

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** In "Doppelgangland" "[[{{Recap/BuffyTheVampireSlayerS3E16Doppelgangland}} Doppelgangland]]" after defeating an alternative universe vampire Willow the gang actually return her unrestrained to her home universe. While she's instantly killed they had no way of knowing that that would be the case. For all they knew they were sending a vampire back to kill other innocents just because it looked like Willow.
** Leaving Spike alive at all after his chipping despite his continuing attempts at killing the Scoobies (and others) and working with Adam to try to destroy them. The same could be said for the demons and vampires and Willie's Bar. And Caritas in Angel the Series.''Series/{{Angel}}''. There's a lot of hypocrisy in those series'.



** In "Toilet Paper" the boys feel guilty about letting Butters take the blame for what they did. They have no such qualms in "The Tale of Scrotie [=McBoogerballs=]" when they attempt to blame Butters for writing the book when they think it'll get them in trouble and when they blame Creator/SarahJessicaParker's death on him.
** In "The Biggest Douche in the Universe" John Edward is declared a douche because he is holding back humanity's progress through false hope and lies and telling people how to live their lives. Yet one season later in "All About Mormons" Stan is declared an asshole for insulting Gary's religion which he himself admits is likely false on the basis that it provides good moral lessons.
** In "With Apologies to Jesse Jackson," Stan learns that it's impossible for a historically privileged group like white people to truly understand the experience of a historically oppressed group like black people, and therefore it's okay for words like "[[NWordPrivileges nigger]]" to be [[AvertedTrope off-limits regardless of context]] because they serve as an unpleasant reminder of the harsh realities of racism. Two seasons later in "The F Word," he and the rest of the boys teach the adults of the town that using the word "fag" is okay as long as it's not used in a hateful way toward gay people, because the meanings of words change all the time. And [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial it has nothing to do with the fact that]] Creator/TreyParkerAndMattStone use the word like punctuation and don't want to take the trouble to re-learn their habits.

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** In "Toilet Paper" "[[Recap/SouthParkS7E3ToiletPaper Toilet Paper]]"" the boys feel guilty about letting Butters take the blame for what they did. They have no such qualms in "The "[[Recap/SouthParkS14E2TheTaleOfScrotieMcBoogerballs The Tale of Scrotie [=McBoogerballs=]" McBoogerballs]]" when they attempt to blame Butters for writing the book when they think it'll get them in trouble and when they blame Creator/SarahJessicaParker's death on him.
** In "The "[[Recap/SouthParkS6E15TheBiggestDoucheInTheUniverse The Biggest Douche in the Universe" Universe]]" John Edward is declared a douche because he is holding back humanity's progress through false hope and lies and telling people how to live their lives. Yet one season later in "All "[[Recap/SouthParkS7E12AllAboutMormons All About Mormons" Mormons]]" Stan is declared an asshole for insulting Gary's religion which he himself admits is likely false on the basis that it provides good moral lessons.
** In "With "[[Recap/SouthParkS11E1WithApologiesToJesseJackson With Apologies to Jesse Jackson," Jackson]]", Stan learns that it's impossible for a historically privileged group like white people to truly understand the experience of a historically oppressed group like black people, and therefore it's okay for words like "[[NWordPrivileges nigger]]" to be [[AvertedTrope off-limits regardless of context]] because they serve as an unpleasant reminder of the harsh realities of racism. Two seasons later in "The "[[Recap/SouthParkS13E12TheFWord The F Word," Word]]", he and the rest of the boys teach the adults of the town that using the word "fag" is okay as long as it's not used in a hateful way toward gay people, because the meanings of words change all the time. And [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial it has nothing to do with the fact that]] Creator/TreyParkerAndMattStone use the word like punctuation and don't want to take the trouble to re-learn their habits.
24th Sep '17 11:24:52 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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** In several incarnations the eponymous heroes are told (or even have it be part of their song lyrics) to only use their powers for defense. This explains why they never use the Megazord to stomp the monster before it grows (they won't risk the property damage until the enemy forces their hand) or why they never directly attack the villain's base (although they did so in ''[[Series/PowerRangersDinoThunder Dino Thunder]]'' after they found its location; guess Tommy'd become GenreSavvy). However, there have been more than a few occasions where they blew up the monster while it was helpless and in some cases practically begging for mercy. There's one particular instance in ''[[Series/MightyMorphinPowerRangers MMPR]]'' ("Two Heads Are Better Than One'') where the Red Ranger seems downright sadistic...

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** In several incarnations the eponymous heroes are told (or even have it be part of their song lyrics) to only use their powers for defense. This explains why they never use the Megazord to stomp the monster before it grows (they won't risk the property damage until the enemy forces their hand) or why they never directly attack the villain's base (although they did so in ''[[Series/PowerRangersDinoThunder Dino Thunder]]'' after they found its location; guess Tommy'd become GenreSavvy).location). However, there have been more than a few occasions where they blew up the monster while it was helpless and in some cases practically begging for mercy. There's one particular instance in ''[[Series/MightyMorphinPowerRangers MMPR]]'' ("Two Heads Are Better Than One'') where the Red Ranger seems downright sadistic...
19th Sep '17 9:15:50 AM SomeRandomEvilGuy
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** In Season 5 some of the Knights of Byzantium, an entirely human organisation dedicated to preventing the world from being destroyed by the Big Bad (albeit by killing someone close to Buffy) were killed by Buffy and the Scoobies. It's less don't kill humans no matter what and more only if there's no other choice.
** In "Doppelgangland" after defeating an alternative universe vampire Willow the gang actually return her unrestrained to her home universe. While she's instantly killed they had no way of knowing that that would be the case. For all they knew they were sending a vampire back to kill other innocents just because it looked like Willow.
** Leaving Spike alive at all after his chipping despite his continuing attempts at killing the Scoobies (and others) and working with Adam to try to destroy them. The same could be said for the demons and vampires and Willie's Bar. And Caritas in Angel the Series. There's a lot of hypocrisy in those series'.
5th Sep '17 7:40:44 AM LittleBuster
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** To a lesser extent, his sister Miyuki also suffers because of this, primarily because she is positioned as the only close friend of her brother and the only one in the family who does not look at him as an instrument or thing, or even announces his full dedication to him, but being BigBrotherWorship, it almost always tries to assign it to itself as BrotherSisterIncest LoveInterest, ignoring his thoughts on this or even technically helping one BigBad of the series when [[spoiler: their ArrangedMariage is used for [[RoyalInbreeding villainous purposes]].]] In fact, in one scene she even kills him (He has a unique ability that allows him to regenerate almost any deadly wounds) after suspicion that he became interested in other girls, or tries to seduce him with erotic clothes in another, while continuing to talk about how incest is evil and she is not going to push him to it. But nevertheless, the series almost always depicts her critical jealousy and open egoism only as a beautiful romantic passion.


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** To a lesser extent, his sister Miyuki also suffers because of this, primarily because she is positioned as the only close friend of her brother and the only one in the family who does not look at him as an instrument or thing, or even announces his full dedication to him, but being BigBrotherWorship, it almost always tries to assign it to itself as BrotherSisterIncest LoveInterest, ignoring his thoughts on this or even technically helping one BigBad of the series when [[spoiler: their ArrangedMariage ArrangedMarriage is used for [[RoyalInbreeding villainous purposes]].]] In fact, in one scene she even kills him (He has a unique ability that allows him to regenerate almost any deadly wounds) after suspicion that he became interested in other girls, or tries to seduce him with erotic clothes in another, while continuing to talk about how incest is evil and she is not going to push him to it. But nevertheless, the series almost always depicts her critical jealousy and open egoism only as a beautiful romantic passion.

5th Sep '17 7:37:13 AM LittleBuster
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* Partially invoked in ''LightNovel/TheIrregularAtMagicHighSchool'', where Tatsuya's actions often border on extreme cynicism or even are openly immoral, due to the fact that as TheStoic he is literally devoid of any strong emotions other than caring for his sister. At the same time, some of his actions do not receive any assessment at all, even if they practically look like ideological fanaticism like the scene in volume 23, where Tatsuya with almost open text hinted that trying to destroy forced militarism in the world of magicians, he is ready to ignore and kill those magicians who genuinely want to be military. The only thing with which the author covers this, is this simple formula "if cynicism is portrayed as frightening, then it justifies its use by a formally good character".
** To a lesser extent, his sister Miyuki also suffers because of this, primarily because she is positioned as the only close friend of her brother and the only one in the family who does not look at him as an instrument or thing, or even announces his full dedication to him, but being BigBrotherWorship, it almost always tries to assign it to itself as BrotherSisterIncest LoveInterest, ignoring his thoughts on this or even technically helping one BigBad of the series when [[spoiler: their ArrangedMariage is used for [[RoyalInbreeding villainous purposes]].]] In fact, in one scene she even kills him (He has a unique ability that allows him to regenerate almost any deadly wounds) after suspicion that he became interested in other girls, or tries to seduce him with erotic clothes in another, while continuing to talk about how incest is evil and she is not going to push him to it. But nevertheless, the series almost always depicts her critical jealousy and open egoism only as a beautiful romantic passion.

13th Aug '17 12:14:18 PM Drgonzo
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** Played for laughs in Samara's recruitment mission: the Asari police captain refused orders to take Samara (an asari Justicar) into custody because Samara would have to kill her (long story). Shepard praises her for refusing orders that are tantamount to suicide. Shepard's teammates are quick to remind them "Hey, aren't YOU ordering us on a suicide mission?"
30th Jul '17 11:32:26 AM PhantomRider
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* Marginal example: Most superheroes in the Franchise/MarvelUniverse don't get along with ComicBook/ThePunisher because he kills the bad guys, but are A-okay with ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} who does the same thing. Marginal because part of the reason is likely that Wolverine doesn't enjoy killing and usually has a fairly rational reason for doing so (usually either self-defense, in the context of a war, or ItsPersonal) while The Punisher, if he has any feelings towards the matter at hand, enjoys it and seeks out people to murder as his standard way of crime fighting, but still an example due to both being unrepentant killers (if of significantly differing degrees of moral culpability and dangerousness). Also because for the Punisher, lethal force is the first option, for Wolverine it's usually the last.

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* Marginal example: Most superheroes in the Franchise/MarvelUniverse don't get along with ComicBook/ThePunisher because he kills the bad guys, but are A-okay with ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} who does the same thing. Marginal because part of the reason is likely that Wolverine doesn't enjoy killing and usually has a fairly rational reason for doing so (usually either self-defense, in the context of a war, or ItsPersonal) while The Punisher, if he has any feelings towards the matter at hand, enjoys it and seeks out people to murder as his standard way of crime fighting, but still an example due to both being unrepentant killers (if of significantly differing degrees of moral culpability and dangerousness). Also because for the Punisher, lethal force is the first option, for Wolverine it's usually the last. (It was different when Wolverine was ''introduced,'' but CharacterizationMarchesOn, and when he ''was'' more Punisher-y, nobody wanted to work with Wolvie either.)



** In deposing Harriet Jones, the Doctor is violating his own often-stated moral standards of not interfering with major historical events or "fixed points in time" as they're called in this series. We had it on no less authority than ''the Doctor himself'' that Harriet Jones was supposed to have three successful terms as Prime Minister and lead Britain into a Golden Age. That sure as Hell sounded like a "fixed point in time" if there ever was one. But then she decided to have the retreating Sycorax killed in "The Christmas Invasion", and Ten got mad. Keep in mind that the aliens had already shown that at least their leader was not above being forced to surrender but instead trying to stab his enemy in the back when they lower their guard, which greatly weakens the Doctor's argument about attacking a retreating species whom was already more than willing to hold a planet at ransom. Furthermore, everything that's happened since then in the Franchise/{{Whoniverse}} in regards to the British premiership -- such as ''Series/{{Torchwood}}'''s Brian Green -- that the Doctor didn't just change history, [[NiceJobBreakingItHero he also changed history for the worse!]]

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** In deposing Harriet Jones, the Doctor is violating his own often-stated moral standards of not interfering with major historical events or "fixed points in time" as they're called in this series. We had it on no less authority than ''the Doctor himself'' that Harriet Jones was supposed to have three successful terms as Prime Minister and lead Britain into a Golden Age. That sure as Hell sounded like a "fixed point in time" if there ever was one. But then she decided to have the retreating Sycorax killed in "The Christmas Invasion", and Ten got mad. Keep in mind that the aliens had already shown that at least their leader was not above being forced to surrender but instead trying to stab his enemy in the back when they lower their guard, which greatly weakens the Doctor's argument about attacking a retreating species whom was already more than willing to hold a planet at ransom. Furthermore, everything that's happened since then in the Franchise/{{Whoniverse}} in regards to the British premiership -- such as Mr. Saxon (aka the Master), and then ''Series/{{Torchwood}}'''s Brian Green -- that the Doctor didn't just change history, [[NiceJobBreakingItHero he also changed history for the worse!]]



**Goes for everyone else, too: often the same characters ComplainingAboutRescuesTheyDontLike because it's ''interfering'' or even because having the ability to stop the crisis makes him ''too scary'' will stand silently by when he's ''actually'' doing some dark stuff.



** In ''Series/PowerRangersInSpace,'' the Megazord goes completely medieval on MonsterOfTheWeek Clawhammer, who was attacking them, to be sure... but maybe ripping out his tendrils, kicking him repeatedly in the groin, and throwing him into lava was ''a tad excessive.'' Maybe whatever Clawhammer had done in the SuperSentai episode the fight footage came from was a ''lot'' more evil than his ''Power Rangers'' actions of simply being a [[MakeMyMonsterGrow literal]] GiantMook. Even worse, Clawhammer was just a mindless alien predator that didn't even work for [[BigBad Astronema]]. Sure, you could blame Astronema for siccing the creature on the Rangers, but in the end, it was just someone who was dragged into the fight against its will (In the Sentai version the corresponding monster ''was'' created by the main villains, and was killed by being thrown into a volcano because he was made of a metal their weapons couldn't penetrate.).

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** In ''Series/PowerRangersInSpace,'' the Megazord goes completely medieval on MonsterOfTheWeek Clawhammer, who was attacking them, to be sure... but maybe ripping out his tendrils, kicking him repeatedly in the groin, and throwing him into lava was ''a tad excessive.'' Maybe whatever Clawhammer had done in the SuperSentai episode the fight footage came from was a ''lot'' more evil than his ''Power Rangers'' actions of simply being a [[MakeMyMonsterGrow literal]] GiantMook. Even worse, Clawhammer was just a mindless alien predator that didn't even work for [[BigBad Astronema]]. Sure, you could blame Astronema for siccing the creature on the Rangers, but in the end, it was just someone who was dragged into the fight against its will (In will. (As for the Sentai version sentai version, the corresponding monster ''was'' created by the main villains, and was killed by being thrown into a volcano because he was made of a metal their weapons couldn't penetrate.).penetrate. Still no excuse for the tendril ripping and GroinAttack; it's not like he'd done something above and beyond the call of MonsterOfTheWeek nastiness. ''If'' there's such a thing as using excessive force against a monster trying to kill you, both teams used it that day.)



** A horrible case in ''Series/PowerRangersWildForce''. There Animus actually ''takes the Wild Force Zords away'' because humans have polluted the planet (ignoring that the Orgs would probably win because of this and make the planet even worse). He does give them back eventually, claiming that it was a test for the Power Rangers but that ignores the fact that the Rangers had already been fighting the Orgs for quite some time before Animus did a thing to help them.

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** A horrible case in ''Series/PowerRangersWildForce''. There Animus actually ''takes the Wild Force Zords Wildzords away'' because humans have polluted the planet (ignoring that the Orgs would probably win because of this and make the planet even worse). He does give them back eventually, claiming that it was a test for the Power Rangers but that ignores the fact that the Rangers had already been fighting the Orgs for quite some time before Animus did a thing to help them.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.MoralDissonance