History Main / MagicAisMagicA

14th Oct '17 9:41:49 PM Jormungar
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This is such a fundamental part of an audience's perception of a story that if you establish a fictional "rule" that isn't quite like reality, and then later break this law to make things act the way they actually would in RealLife, [[RealityIsUnrealistic people will likely be distraught]]. Whether it's realistic doesn't matter. Even whether it's ''explained at all'' doesn't matter: depending on your audience, even [[AWizardDidIt "it's magic!"]] can be a satisfactory explanation, as long as the magic behaves consistently.

The substitution of mere internal consistency for a ''bona fide'' logical explanation is a NecessaryWeasel of SpeculativeFiction. Without it, any instance of a wizard casting a fireball would quickly degenerate into an InfoDump of [[MagiBabble quasi-physics and pseudo-science]]. However, [[TropesAreNotGood much like any other trope]], too much of it can be unhealthy. If a consistent magical element is plot-significant and leads to new plot complications, you can expect even the most patient audience member to eventually [[TheChrisCarterEffect want some explanation]]. On other hand, [[SandersonsFirstLaw a sufficiently-understood speculative concept can be used to resolve conflict in a satisfying manner]].

A story can rely too much on a seemingly useful rule. This leads to phenomena like ShootingSuperman: It's one thing for no weapon to be able to break through the Armor of White Legend; it's something else entirely for enemies to just keep shooting arrows without [[KillItWithFire trying any other strategy]]. Instead of the armor being invulnerable, it's the hero who [[PlotArmor cannot die]].

to:

This is such a fundamental part of an audience's perception of a story that if you establish a fictional "rule" that isn't quite like reality, and then later break this law to make things act the way they actually would in RealLife, [[RealityIsUnrealistic people will likely be distraught]]. Whether it's realistic doesn't matter. Even whether it's ''explained at all'' doesn't matter: depending on your audience, even [[AWizardDidIt "it's magic!"]] can be a satisfactory explanation, as long as the magic behaves consistently.

The substitution of mere internal
Internal consistency for a ''bona fide'' logical explanation is often a NecessaryWeasel of SpeculativeFiction. superior alternative to attempting to scientifically explain every fantastical element in the story. Without it, any instance of a wizard casting a fireball would quickly degenerate into an InfoDump of [[MagiBabble quasi-physics and pseudo-science]]. However, [[TropesAreNotGood much like any pseudo-science]].

This trope can also be applied in
other trope]], too much of it can be unhealthy. If ways. For example, a consistent magical element is plot-significant and leads to new plot complications, you can expect even certain snarky comment about television series {{Series/Lost}} was that heavier character Hurley never lost any weight despite being stranded on an island in the most patient Pacific. One "response" from fans of the series was, "You're talking about a story which literally involves ''magic.''" The answer is that while the audience member can accept the existence of magic within the context of the story, there is nothing to eventually [[TheChrisCarterEffect want some explanation]]. On other hand, [[SandersonsFirstLaw indicate the basic fact that ''humans need to eat to survive'' is no longer in play. Just because there are fantastical elements within a sufficiently-understood speculative concept story doesn't mean all real-world logic can be used to resolve conflict in a satisfying manner]].

A story can rely too much on a seemingly useful rule. This leads to phenomena like ShootingSuperman: It's one thing for no weapon to be able to break through the Armor of White Legend; it's something else entirely for enemies to just keep shooting arrows
ignored without [[KillItWithFire trying any other strategy]]. Instead of the armor being invulnerable, it's the hero who [[PlotArmor cannot die]].
explanation.



This trope derives its name from [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_identity Aristotle's Law of Identity]], which claims that "[[ShapedLikeItself a thing and itself are the same thing]]" and marks [[TropesAreNotBad an important contribution]] of CaptainObvious to modern rational discourse. The title references the law's well-known symbolic formulation, "A = A", which is probably due to German mathematician and philosopher Gottfried Leibniz.

In short: the real point isn't that Magic A is Magic A -- rather, Magic A ''should stay'' Magic A.
1st Oct '17 1:06:00 AM vman0
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* ''Fanfic/TheBridge'' points out Equestrian and Terran magic runs on different rules and can't be used to counteract each other. Equestrian magic works by using your emotions like ThePowerOfFriendship, ThePowerOfHate, and ThePowerOfLove to draw out your energy and manipulate it. Terran magic works by harnessing and manipulating the mana in your body and the surrounding environment. Each type of magic has a 'nexus' from which it originated [[spoiler:[[BigBad Bagan]] for Terran magic and [[BigGood Harmony]] for Equestrian magic.]] While Light Magic and Dark Magic are both Equestrian magics, they do are also distinct from one another [[spoiler:to the point that Bagan realizes that Harmony ''can't'' have been the source of Dark Magic and it turns out Grogar is the nexus for it.]]

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* ''Fanfic/TheBridge'' points out Equestrian and Terran magic runs on different rules and can't be used to counteract each other. Equestrian magic works by using your emotions like ThePowerOfFriendship, ThePowerOfHate, and ThePowerOfLove to draw out your energy and manipulate it. Terran magic magic, however, works by harnessing and manipulating the mana in your body and the surrounding environment. Each type of magic has a 'nexus' from which it originated [[spoiler:[[BigBad Bagan]] for Terran magic and [[BigGood Harmony]] for Equestrian magic.]] While Light Magic and Dark Magic are both Equestrian magics, they do are also distinct from one another another, [[spoiler:to the point that Bagan realizes that Harmony ''can't'' have been the source of Dark Magic and it turns out Grogar is the nexus for it.]]
24th Sep '17 11:33:41 AM nombretomado
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* The ''{{Belgariad}}''

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* The ''{{Belgariad}}'' ''Literature/TheBelgariad'':
14th Sep '17 12:10:27 PM ImperialMajestyXO
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* ''Manga/RanmaOneHalf'' [[InvoluntaryShapeshifting magical transformations]] have a set of basic if very generalized rules to purposely avoid complicated minutiae ("I don't think about it, and [[BellisariosMaxim neither should you!]]") despite [[FanWank whatever fans say]].

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* ''Manga/RanmaOneHalf'' ''Manga/RanmaOneHalf'': [[InvoluntaryShapeshifting magical transformations]] have a set of basic if very generalized rules to purposely avoid complicated minutiae ("I don't think about it, and [[BellisariosMaxim neither should you!]]") despite [[FanWank whatever fans say]].
31st Aug '17 4:56:52 AM HalcyonDayz
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** The aversion comes in the form of "free magic" (''Freizauberei'' in German), which is off-limits for player characters and is also a very seldom form of magic among NPCs, restricted to a few legendary figures of Aventurian history, the (extinct) High Elves, the higher (i.e. sentient) dragons (of which there are only a few) and the entire kobold species. These magic users are still limited in capacity, having a limited, regenerating pool of astral energy just like all other magic-capable characters, but theoretically unlimited in power: they can achieve any effect they wish, essentially creating unique spells on the fly, with the only limitation being that greater power (in nature and scope of the effect) costs them more astral energy. There are no further rules and no spell list for free magic, seeing as it is not meant to be used by PCs anyway - the GM is encouraged to get creative with it.

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** The aversion comes in the form of "free magic" (''Freizauberei'' in German), which is off-limits for player characters and is also a very seldom form of magic among NPCs, [=PCs=], restricted to a few legendary figures of Aventurian history, the (extinct) High Elves, the higher (i.e. sentient) dragons (of which there are only a few) and the entire kobold species. These magic users are still limited in capacity, having a limited, regenerating pool of astral energy just like all other magic-capable characters, but theoretically unlimited in power: they can achieve any effect they wish, essentially creating unique spells on the fly, with the only limitation being that greater power (in nature and scope of the effect) costs them more astral energy. There are no further rules and no spell list for free magic, seeing as it is not meant to be used by PCs [=PCs=] anyway - the GM is encouraged to get creative with it.
1st Aug '17 3:14:56 PM mr_dino42
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** Most, if not all of these rules, however, can be bypassed under one condition. as knowing the true name of something gives absolute control over it, knowing the true name of MAGIC ITSELF would therefore give you complete control over magic and its rules.

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** Most, if not all of these rules, however, can be bypassed under one condition. as knowing the true name of something gives absolute control over it, knowing the true name of MAGIC ITSELF would therefore give you complete control over magic and its rules. this is not an easy task, though, as the only person to actually discover it on their own had to spend over a century of research to even figure it out.
1st Aug '17 3:12:52 PM mr_dino42
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** Most, if not all of these rules, however, can be bypassed under one condition. as knowing the true name of something gives absolute control over it, knowing the true name of MAGIC ITSELF would therefore give you complete control over magic and its rules.
20th Jul '17 3:38:53 AM azbyc15243
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* ''LightNovel/TheUnexploredSummonBloodSign'' has an extremely complicated system of SummonMagic. The basic idea is that a summoner must be partnered with a vessel, and uses a long stick (the titular Blood Sign) to spell out the name of a particular Material (supernatural being), who possesses the vessel.
** All Materials belong to one of three classes. In ascending order of power, these are the Regulation-Class (monsters created by humans, as a means of accessing the higher classes), the Divine-Class (gods and other legendary figures) and the Unexplored-Class (all-female beings who represent the laws of the world itself).
** Within each class, the power of a Material is directly related to the number of letters in its name. This means that, for example, [[Myth/AztecMythology Quetzalcoatl]] is stronger than [[Myth/GreekMythology Zeus]] or [[Myth/NorseMythology Odin]].
** The 26 letters of the alphabet are divided into four categories: vowels, 'low' sounds (the first seven consonants), 'middle' sounds (the middle seven consonants) and 'high' sounds (the last seven consonants). All Materials belong to one of the three sound ranges, based on the composition of their name. For example, a Material with two high sounds and one low sounds would be 'high'. This leads to a form of TacticalRockPaperScissors: 'high' has an advantage over 'medium', 'medium' over 'low', and 'low' over high'.
** Materials are [[NighInvulnerability completely immune to non-magical means of attack]], and can only be harmed by other Materials. While summoning, summoners are surrounded by a protective circle which protects them from all forms of harm, including Material attacks.
** All Materials contain a Silhouette, a core which houses the vessel's mind. If this is destroyed, the Material will leave the vessel, and both summoner and vessel will experience a supernatural shock for 24 hours. In this state, they won't take any actions of their own accord, but will follow simple orders.
11th Jul '17 5:01:53 PM ZimFan89
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* ''[[Fanfic/GuardiansWizardsAndKungFuFighters Guardians, Wizards, and Kung-Fu Fighters]]'' clarifies that that the magic used by the [[WesternAnimation/{{WITCH}} Guardians and Meridianites]] (called Raw Magic) is different from the Chi Magic used by [[WesternAnimation/JackieChanAdventures Uncle, Tohru, and Wong]].

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* ''[[Fanfic/GuardiansWizardsAndKungFuFighters Guardians, Wizards, and Kung-Fu Fighters]]'' clarifies that that the magic used by the [[WesternAnimation/{{WITCH}} Guardians and Meridianites]] (called Raw Magic) is different from the Chi Magic used by [[WesternAnimation/JackieChanAdventures Uncle, Tohru, and Wong]]. However, [[spoiler: [[MysteriousWatcher Nimue]]]] later makes it clear that it's possible to use both types.
7th Jul '17 12:07:12 AM papyru30
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* In ''Literature/MasksOfAygrima'' magic moves like a liquid, can only be seen by people with "The Gift" and can only be used by a few gifted people, magic comes from living beings and comes in many colors and each color has a specific ability, all but a few gifted can only see one color of magic, magic is drawn to Black Lodestone and can only be used by someone who touches it, there are some gifted who can see and use all colors without touching it and can also tear magic from people's bodies but if someone dies near them, especially if they killed that person with magic, then they will be haunted by images of that person (called a Soulprint). Finally Black Lodestone exists only in the country of Aygrima and Soulprints are less prominent outside of Aygrima.
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