History Main / MagicAIsMAgicA

19th May '18 5:55:23 AM valar55
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** Magic in general seems to work off of Newtonian physics. Throwing a small pebble at a certain speed requires as much energy as if you did it by hand. Then you have to consider how far away the target you're enchanting is and even the very ''wording'' you're using in the ancient language, all of which can determine how much energy you could spend on a task. This law can get abstract when you're dealing with metaphysical concepts like turning invisible, healing wounds ranging from cuts and bruises to broken bones and birth defects, and amalgamating enough particles of pure gold to be the size of your fist, to the point that experimenting with magic is extremely dangerous because you don't know exactly how much energy it will require, and it WILL kill you if you try to use more energy than you have. It's possible to get around this by pulling energy from other sources (plants animals, dead dragons etc).

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** Magic in general seems to work off of Newtonian physics. Throwing a small pebble at a certain speed requires as much energy as if you did it by hand. Then you have to consider how far away the target you're enchanting is and even the very ''wording'' you're using in the ancient language, all of which can determine how much energy you could spend on a task. This law can get abstract when you're dealing with metaphysical concepts like turning invisible, healing wounds ranging from cuts and bruises to broken bones and birth defects, and amalgamating enough particles of pure gold to be the size of your fist, to the point that experimenting with magic is extremely dangerous because you don't know exactly how much energy it will require, and it WILL kill you if you try to use more energy than you have. It's possible to get around this by pulling energy from other sources (plants (plants, animals, dead dragons etc).
7th May '18 5:35:37 PM ultimomant
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* ''LightNovel/HighSchoolDxD'':

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* ''LightNovel/HighSchoolDxD'':''LightNovel/HighSchoolDXD'':
17th Apr '18 1:24:53 PM Wordpainter
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*** Zaheer starts off the most normal of the bunch, but [[spoiler:he becomes an airbender following the Harmonic Convergence. He goes on to confirm what many people feared was the reason why Airbenders are taught to be pacifists; Zaheer was able to literally take the breath out of another person, suffocating them to death. Later, he gains the ability to fly unsupported, becoming the first airbender to do so in four thousand years. This has its own rules--it requires severing all earthly ties, including relationships, so he can't achieve it until his girlfriend is killed.]]

to:

*** Zaheer starts off the most normal of the bunch, but [[spoiler:he becomes an airbender following the Harmonic Convergence. He goes on to confirm what many people feared was the reason why Airbenders are taught to be pacifists; Zaheer was able to literally take the breath out of another person, suffocating them to death. ]] Later, he [[spoiler:he gains the ability to fly unsupported, becoming the first airbender to do so in four thousand years. years.]] This has its own rules--it requires severing [[spoiler:severing all earthly ties, including relationships, so he can't achieve it until his girlfriend is killed.]]
17th Apr '18 1:21:09 PM Wordpainter
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*** Zaheer starts off the most normal of the bunch, but [[spoiler:he becomes an airbender following the Harmonic Convergence. He goes on to confirm what many people feared was the reason why Airbenders are taught to be pacifists; Zaheer was able to literally take the breath out of another person, suffocating them to death. Later, he gains the ability to fly unsupported, becoming the first airbender to do so in four thousand years. This has it's own rules--one cannot have any earthly ties to do it, so he can't achieve it until his girlfriend is killed.]]

to:

*** Zaheer starts off the most normal of the bunch, but [[spoiler:he becomes an airbender following the Harmonic Convergence. He goes on to confirm what many people feared was the reason why Airbenders are taught to be pacifists; Zaheer was able to literally take the breath out of another person, suffocating them to death. Later, he gains the ability to fly unsupported, becoming the first airbender to do so in four thousand years. This has it's its own rules--one cannot have any rules--it requires severing all earthly ties to do it, ties, including relationships, so he can't achieve it until his girlfriend is killed.]]
17th Apr '18 1:17:49 PM Wordpainter
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** It's shown that the characters are still learning and developing their understanding of those rules: Metalbending was only discovered in the original series by Toph due to her DisabilitySuperpower, but is now understood enough to be taught to others and also to be defended against: platinum was found to be free of the impurities needed to bend it. Likewise, bloodbending was once thought to require a full moon to boost a waterbender's power, but people have been found that are powerful enough without it.
** With the episodes "Beginnings, Part 1 and 2", the [[spoiler: the history of the Avatar is set out. Notably, bending was ''given'' to people by lion-turtles, who acted as guardians to humanity in a world ravaged by spirits. At the end, Wan becomes the first Avatar by merging with the Spirit of Light Raava and becoming the first person capable of bending all four elements at once. With the coming of the Avatar, the lion-turtles relinquished their position as guardians of humanity and notably claimed that they will not give humans the power to bend elements any more. This provides for two possibilities: All benders are descendants of those humans who kept their bending powers after the lion-turtles left. Or, subsequent generations of humanity really did learn to bend the elements by watching animals (and the Moon) do it. The show vaguely implies the second, as the effects of energy-bending were shown to not be hereditary, meaning that the people with bending granted by energy-bending can't pass it on to their children.]]
** A combination of SuperpowerfulGenetics and [[TrainingFromHell early training]] reveals this applies to [[PeoplePuppets bloodbending]] beyond the previous ''perception'' (rather than hard rule) that the technique can only be done during a full moon, which is when a waterbender's at their strongest. [[TheDon Yakone]] exploited this perception, but Sokka wasn't buying it while the revelation of this ability outed his sons, [[ManipulativeBastard Tarrlok]] and [[spoiler: Amon/Noatak,]] who was skilled enough to not even need to do the familiar gestures to the extent the wiki refers to it as ''psychic'' bloodbending while he passes it off as [[SoulPower energybending]] [[MissionFromGod from the spirits.]]
** The members of the Red Lotus are capable of bending in unique and unusual ways, but even then they don't seem to deviate from the previously-established rules. Indeed, other people are shown being able to use those powers.

to:

** It's shown that the characters are still learning and developing their understanding of those rules: Metalbending was only discovered in the original series by Toph due to her DisabilitySuperpower, but is now understood enough to be taught to others and also to be defended against: platinum was found to be free of the impurities needed to bend it. Likewise, bloodbending [[PeoplePuppets bloodbending]] was once thought to require a full moon to boost a waterbender's power, but people have been found that are powerful enough without it.
to bloodbend at any time.
** A combination of SuperpowerfulGenetics and [[TrainingFromHell early training]] is what can apparently overcome the bloodbending full moon restriction. In the time between the two series, [[TheDon Yakone]] exploited the unknown nature of the loophole to disguise what he was doing, but Sokka eventually saw through him. The fact that they share this ability outs two other characters as his sons, [[ManipulativeBastard Tarrlok]] and [[spoiler: Amon/Noatak,]] the latter of whom is skilled enough to not even need to do the familiar gestures. The wiki refers to it as ''psychic'' bloodbending, while he passes it off as [[SoulPower energybending]] [[MissionFromGod from the spirits.]]
** With the episodes "Beginnings, Part 1 and 2", the [[spoiler: the history of the Avatar is set out. [[spoiler: Notably, bending was ''given'' to people by lion-turtles, who acted as guardians to humanity in a world ravaged by spirits. At the end, Wan becomes the first Avatar by merging with the Spirit of Light Raava and becoming the first person capable of bending all four elements at once. With the coming of the Avatar, the lion-turtles relinquished their position as guardians of humanity and notably claimed that they will not give humans the power to bend elements any more. This provides for two possibilities: All benders are descendants of those humans who kept their bending powers after the lion-turtles left. Or, subsequent generations of humanity really did learn to bend the elements by watching animals (and the Moon) do it. The show vaguely implies the second, as the effects of energy-bending were shown to not be hereditary, meaning that the people with bending granted by energy-bending can't pass it on to their children.]]
** A combination of SuperpowerfulGenetics and [[TrainingFromHell early training]] reveals this applies to [[PeoplePuppets bloodbending]] beyond the previous ''perception'' (rather than hard rule) that the technique can only be done during a full moon, which is when a waterbender's at their strongest. [[TheDon Yakone]] exploited this perception, but Sokka wasn't buying it while the revelation of this The ability outed his sons, [[ManipulativeBastard Tarrlok]] and of spirit-world interference to bestow bending is further built upon at the end of Season 2, when the Harmonic Convergence causes [[spoiler: Amon/Noatak,]] who was skilled enough to not even need to do random non-benders around the familiar gestures world to suddenly become airbenders, correcting the extent imbalance caused by the wiki refers to it as ''psychic'' bloodbending while he passes it off as [[SoulPower energybending]] [[MissionFromGod from the spirits.Fire Nation's earlier genocide.]]
** The In Season 3, the members of the Red Lotus are capable of bending in unique and unusual ways, but even then they don't seem to deviate from the previously-established rules. Indeed, other people are shown being able to use those powers.



*** Zaheer is the most normal of the bunch, but [[spoiler:he's an airbender with no genetic connection to Aang, which marks him as unique. This also means he directly confirmed what many people feared as the reason why Airbenders are taught to be pacifists; Zaheer was able to literally take the breath out of another person, suffocating them to death. Later, he gains the ability to fly unsupported, becoming the first airbender to do so in four thousand years.]]

to:

*** Zaheer is starts off the most normal of the bunch, but [[spoiler:he's [[spoiler:he becomes an airbender with no genetic connection following the Harmonic Convergence. He goes on to Aang, which marks him as unique. This also means he directly confirmed confirm what many people feared as was the reason why Airbenders are taught to be pacifists; Zaheer was able to literally take the breath out of another person, suffocating them to death. Later, he gains the ability to fly unsupported, becoming the first airbender to do so in four thousand years. This has it's own rules--one cannot have any earthly ties to do it, so he can't achieve it until his girlfriend is killed.]]
2nd Apr '18 11:11:47 AM Scabbard
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* ''Manga/RanmaOneHalf'': [[InvoluntaryShapeshifting magical transformations]] have a set of basic if very generalized rules to purposely avoid complicated minutiae ("I don't think about it, and [[BellisariosMaxim neither should you!]]") despite [[FanWank whatever fans say]].

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* ''Manga/RanmaOneHalf'': [[InvoluntaryShapeshifting magical Magical transformations]] have a set of basic if very generalized rules to purposely avoid complicated minutiae ("I don't think about it, and [[BellisariosMaxim neither should you!]]") despite [[FanWank whatever fans say]].
21st Mar '18 3:10:00 PM RedScharlach
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** While the exact mechanics of ki and battle power are never fully explained, they do follow consistent rules. Among other things, the rules about who can fly, who can transform, and who can [[GoodThingYouCanHeal regenerate]] are all the same for everyone across the board. And if there's someone who does break the rules, it's given an explanation as to why they can.

to:

** While the exact mechanics of ki and battle power are never fully explained, they do follow consistent rules. Among other things, the rules about who can fly, who can transform, and who can [[GoodThingYouCanHeal regenerate]] are all the same for everyone across the board. And if there's someone who does break the rules, it's given an explanation is given as to why they can.



* There is an epic occurance of this trope in a slightly NSFW comic (by EC or Warren? Wally Wood??) named "The Broadsword". Unfortunately, the whole plot must be told. The [[IncrediblyLamePun Broadsword]] is the sword that the hero carries to slay the local evil magician, as a quest before he may marry his broad. As he is bored on the long way and speaks her name, the sword turns into her. Because the good magician has built in a toggleswitch so the hero is not that bored on the long way. (You have one guess what they do against their boredom.) Woes, oh woes, the evil magician has a mag(ic)netic field around his lair, no trespassing with swords. He has to toggle and promptly the mooks grab him and drag him before the overlord. But suddenly, his broad slips him a dagger and he slices-and-dices the baddie. Happy End. Of course now you ask, the broad was [[ShapeshiftingExcludesClothing nekkid]], where did she get the dagger? Drumroll: [[spoiler: It was their unborn baby.]]

to:

* There is an epic occurance occurrence of this trope in a slightly NSFW comic (by EC or Warren? Wally Wood??) named "The Broadsword". Unfortunately, the whole plot must be told. The [[IncrediblyLamePun Broadsword]] is the sword that the hero carries to slay the local evil magician, as a quest before he may marry his broad. As he is bored on the long way and speaks her name, the sword turns into her. Because the good magician has built in a toggleswitch so the hero is not that bored on the long way. journey. (You have one guess what they do against to counteract their boredom.) Woes, oh woes, the evil magician has a mag(ic)netic field around his lair, lair: no trespassing with swords. He has to toggle and promptly the mooks grab him and drag him before the overlord. But suddenly, his broad slips him a dagger and he slices-and-dices the baddie. Happy End. Of course now you ask, the broad was [[ShapeshiftingExcludesClothing nekkid]], where did she get the dagger? Drumroll: [[spoiler: It was their unborn baby.]]



* ''Film/IronMan'' The first film established that the Iron Man suits only functioned while they had sufficient power, and Tony replaced the Mark 1 arc reactor with a more powerful one to power the Mark 2 and 3 Iron Man suits. Given that they were designed for sustained flight, they needed the extra power. When he has to use the proto reactor in his Mark 2 suit, he has notably less power. Each part of Mark 42 is implied to have its own reactor because it was made to come apart and move remotely. It's also an example of what happens when you push this trope too far: it's so complicated that it rarely works as well as it's supposed to.

to:

* ''Film/IronMan'' The first film established that the Iron Man suits only functioned function while they had have sufficient power, and Tony replaced the Mark 1 arc reactor with a more powerful one to power the Mark 2 and 3 Iron Man suits. Given that they were designed for sustained flight, they needed the extra power. When he has to use the proto reactor in his Mark 2 suit, he has notably less power. Each part of Mark 42 is implied to have its own reactor because it was made to come apart and move remotely. It's also an example of what happens when you push this trope too far: it's so complicated that it rarely works as well as it's supposed to.



* ''Franchise/BackToTheFuture'' trilogy established three things about how their TimeMachine works: you need to be moving at least 88 MPH, you need 1.21 gigawatts of energy, and the [[AppliedPhlebotinum Flux Capacitor]] makes TimeTravel possible. The lack of the proper energy source to create 1.21 gigawatts is what drives the story of the [[Film/BackToTheFuture first movie]] and after a visit to the future Doc Brown installed "Mr. Fusion" that eliminated the dilemma by being able to use anything to create that energy. In the [[Film/BackToTheFuturePartIII third movie]] a lack of proper octane gasoline fuel for the engine to get them up to speed is a different issue (they even made sure to specify that Mr. Fusion doesn't apply to the internal combustion engine). Some fans also noticed that the lightning strike in the [[Film/BackToTheFuturePartII second movie]] that shot Doc into the old west happened while the Delorean was mostly stationary, filmmakers clarified that the car ''rotated'' at 88 MPH which is seen with the fire trail after it happened.
* ''Film/WarCraft2016'' adapts the magic from the game it's based on, so this happens. Every spell requires hand gestures, InstantRunes and a spoken incantation, and overall, the spells are distinct enough that after one use, you can guess what's being casted while the runes are still forming.

to:

* ''Franchise/BackToTheFuture'' trilogy established three things about how their TimeMachine works: you need to be moving at least 88 MPH, you need 1.21 gigawatts of energy, and the [[AppliedPhlebotinum Flux Capacitor]] makes TimeTravel possible. The lack of the proper energy source to create 1.21 gigawatts is what drives the story of the [[Film/BackToTheFuture first movie]] and after a visit to the future Doc Brown installed "Mr. Fusion" that eliminated the dilemma by being able to use anything to create that energy. In the [[Film/BackToTheFuturePartIII third movie]] a lack of proper octane gasoline fuel for the engine to get them up to speed is a different issue (they even made sure to specify that Mr. Fusion doesn't apply to the internal combustion engine). Some fans also noticed that the lightning strike in the [[Film/BackToTheFuturePartII second movie]] that shot Doc into the old west West happened while the Delorean was mostly stationary, filmmakers clarified that the car ''rotated'' at 88 MPH which is seen with the fire trail after it happened.
* ''Film/WarCraft2016'' adapts the magic from the game it's based on, so this happens. Every spell requires hand gestures, InstantRunes and a spoken incantation, and overall, the spells are distinct enough that after one use, you can guess what's being casted cast while the runes are still forming.



** As an example, in ''{{Franchise/Mistborn}}'', the primary magic power is Allomancy. In Allomancy, you have to ingest metals and then "burn" them to produce very specific effects. Each "set" of effects are based on burning an elemental metal and an alloy of that same metal produces a generally opposite effect. For example, Iron allows you to pull nearby metal and steel allows you to push against nearby metal. Zinc gives the ability to enhance emotions in people and brass allows you to reduce emotions. This elemental/alloy relationship even allows an InUniverse deduction when a character is exposed to a new elemental metal and realizes there must be an alloy that produces an opposite effect she figures it out and actually gains a edge against other Allomancers for a while. The effect of a metal never change but its science-like nature allows characters to get really creative with applications.

to:

** As an example, in ''{{Franchise/Mistborn}}'', the primary magic power is Allomancy. In Allomancy, you have to ingest metals and then "burn" them to produce very specific effects. Each "set" of effects are based on burning an elemental metal and an alloy of that same metal produces a generally opposite effect. For example, Iron allows you to pull nearby metal and steel allows you to push against nearby metal. Zinc gives the ability to enhance emotions in people and brass allows you to reduce emotions. This elemental/alloy relationship even allows an InUniverse deduction when a character is exposed to a new elemental metal and realizes there must be an alloy that produces an opposite effect she figures it out and actually gains a an edge against other Allomancers for a while. The effect of a metal never change but its science-like nature allows characters to get really creative with applications.



* ''Literature/SkulduggeryPleasant'' uses this, with two separate magic systems. It describes exactly how the magic works -- i.e., instead of "he snapped his fingers and a flame appeared above them," it's "she snapped her fingers, felt the spark and heat generated by the friction, and fed it her magic until it grew into a visible flame."

to:

* ''Literature/SkulduggeryPleasant'' uses this, with two separate magic systems. It describes exactly how the magic works -- i.e., g. instead of "he snapped his fingers and a flame appeared above them," it's "she snapped her fingers, felt the spark and heat generated by the friction, and fed it her magic until it grew into a visible flame."



** Generally speaking, magic had to be done with extreme precision--one wrong word or movement would either make the spell fail. or cause some kind of strange side-effect.

to:

** Generally speaking, magic had to be done with extreme precision--one wrong word or movement would either make the spell fail. fail, or cause some kind of strange side-effect.



* The indie superpowered-sleuth system ''TabletopGame/MutantCityBlues'' uses this trope. Sure, there are mutants in the setting, and they can fly, shoot assorted kinds of energy bolts, read minds and even steal each other's powers. All these abilities are meticulously catalogued in the so-called Quade Diagram which provides solid insight about what powers can concievably coexist in a person. Some, like supernatural analytical abilities and remote control of electronic devices, are very *close* so that the person possessing one can be routinely assumed to posess another. Others, say, the ability to fly and become invisible, are so far apart in the chart that it is impossible for one man to have both (without breaking the setting and/or having Infinite Experience Points). This diagram, along with more conventional investigative methods, makes the task of solving "Heightened" crimes more of a usual analytical exercise and almost none of the "whoever got more control of The Force" thing.

to:

* The indie superpowered-sleuth system ''TabletopGame/MutantCityBlues'' uses this trope. Sure, there are mutants in the setting, and they can fly, shoot assorted kinds of energy bolts, read minds and even steal each other's powers. All these abilities are meticulously catalogued in the so-called Quade Diagram which provides solid insight about what powers can concievably coexist in a person. Some, like supernatural analytical abilities and remote control of electronic devices, are very *close* so that the person possessing one can be routinely assumed to posess another. Others, say, the ability to fly and become invisible, are so far apart in the chart that it is impossible for one man to have both (without breaking the setting and/or having Infinite Experience Points). This diagram, along with more conventional investigative methods, makes the task of solving "Heightened" crimes more of a usual an unusual analytical exercise and almost none of the "whoever got more control of The Force" thing.



* ''Webcomic/AMagicalRoommate'' is fairly flexible, but has some strict rules with its magic system. When it appeared that one of these rules had been broken, Aylia imediatly rushed to figure out how... only to discover LoopholeAbuse the cause.

to:

* ''Webcomic/AMagicalRoommate'' is fairly flexible, but has some strict rules with its magic system. When it appeared that one of these rules had been broken, Aylia imediatly immediately rushed to figure out how... only to discover LoopholeAbuse was the cause.



* In ''Literature/ArcanaMagi'', Mana is a source of energy akin to electrical energy, with kinetic and potential types. Mana energizes magical items and can be drawn from nature by people with magical powers to cast spells, but cannot be drawn from other people or creatures due to willpower and instinctual resistance. Mana is 100% pure when the object its drawn from is natural, like copper and wood, and slowly but surely the natural object will lose all its Mana when changed into something else, like when copper and electricity is used in a computer. Though in ''Literature/ArcanaMagiZero'', different types of magical groups have different ways of drawing mana and casting spells. For instance, Alysia Perez and Megumi Miyazaki are Circular Magi, so all their magical powers come from Magic Circles.

to:

* In ''Literature/ArcanaMagi'', Mana is a source of energy akin to electrical energy, with kinetic and potential types. Mana energizes magical items and can be drawn from nature by people with magical powers to cast spells, but cannot be drawn from other people or creatures due to willpower and instinctual resistance. Mana is 100% pure when the object its it's drawn from is natural, like copper and wood, and slowly but surely the natural object will lose all its Mana when changed into something else, like when copper and electricity is used in a computer. Though in ''Literature/ArcanaMagiZero'', different types of magical groups have different ways of drawing mana and casting spells. For instance, Alysia Perez and Megumi Miyazaki are Circular Magi, so all their magical powers come from Magic Circles.
18th Mar '18 11:55:31 AM shokoshu
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Added DiffLines:

* There is an epic occurance of this trope in a slightly NSFW comic (by EC or Warren? Wally Wood??) named "The Broadsword". Unfortunately, the whole plot must be told. The [[IncrediblyLamePun Broadsword]] is the sword that the hero carries to slay the local evil magician, as a quest before he may marry his broad. As he is bored on the long way and speaks her name, the sword turns into her. Because the good magician has built in a toggleswitch so the hero is not that bored on the long way. (You have one guess what they do against their boredom.) Woes, oh woes, the evil magician has a mag(ic)netic field around his lair, no trespassing with swords. He has to toggle and promptly the mooks grab him and drag him before the overlord. But suddenly, his broad slips him a dagger and he slices-and-dices the baddie. Happy End. Of course now you ask, the broad was [[ShapeshiftingExcludesClothing nekkid]], where did she get the dagger? Drumroll: [[spoiler: It was their unborn baby.]]
18th Mar '18 1:20:28 AM K2Misfit
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** A universal trait of all the styles is the more skilled the bender, the less physical effort required to do so akin to a muscle. A master like [[AuthorityEqualsAsskicking King]] [[DishingOutDirt Bumi]] can bend just by moving his ''[[BewareTheSillyOnes face.]]''



** A combination of SuperpowerfulGenetics and [[TrainingFromHell early training]] reveals this applies to [[PeoplePuppets bloodbending]] beyond the previous ''perception'' (rather than hard rule) that the technique can only be done during a full moon, which is when a waterbender's at their strongest. [[TheDon Yakone]] exploited this perception, but Sokka wasn't buying it while the revelation of this ability outed his sons, [[ManipulativeBastard Tarrlok]] and [[spoiler: Amon/Noatak,]] who was skilled enough to not even need to do the familiar gestures to the extent the wiki refers to it as ''psychic'' bloodbending while he passes it off as [[SoulPower energybending]] [[MissionFromGod from the spirits.]]



*** Ming-Hua is an [[HandicappedBadass armless waterbender]] who fights by using her element to create [[ArtificialLimbs temporary limbs]] of liquid water. These usually take the form of CombatTentacles and [[BladeBelowTheShoulder ice blades]].

to:

*** Ming-Hua is an [[HandicappedBadass armless waterbender]] who fights by using her element to create [[ArtificialLimbs temporary limbs]] of liquid water. These usually take the form of CombatTentacles and [[BladeBelowTheShoulder ice blades]]. This is consistent with the aforementioned master rule.
7th Mar '18 1:35:13 PM KamenRiderOokalf
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* ''Fanfic/GameTheoryFanFic'' does this with the magic of ''MagicalGirlLyricalNanoha.'' Clear rules are presented for things like [[MadeOfMagic mana constructs]], spell design, mana itself, and much more.

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* ''Fanfic/GameTheoryFanFic'' does this with the magic of ''MagicalGirlLyricalNanoha.''Franchise/LyricalNanoha.'' Clear rules are presented for things like [[MadeOfMagic mana constructs]], spell design, mana itself, and much more.
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