History Main / MachiavelliWasWrong

29th Apr '16 12:40:15 AM konekootome
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** Then there are the various Northern Houses, who love their liege lords the Starks. They loved the Stark family so such that they, lord and commoner alike are prepared to march through blizzards, bone chilling cold in a state of near starvation or keep on fighting even when all hope is faded, for the sake of the Starks. Even after being [[spoiler:usurped by the Boltons, the North would not bend the knee to them, and House Manderly[[labelnote:*]]Which actually was originally an Andal noble house that was adopted by the Starks into the North after being usurped from their homelands further south[[/labelnote]] are conspiring against the Bolton's to bring the Starks back as liege

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** Then there are the various Northern Houses, who love their liege lords the Starks. They loved the Stark family so such that they, lord and commoner alike are prepared to march through blizzards, bone chilling cold in a state of near starvation or keep on fighting even when all hope is faded, for the sake of the Starks. Even after being [[spoiler:usurped by the Boltons, the North would not bend the knee to them, and House Manderly[[labelnote:*]]Which actually was originally an Andal noble house that was adopted by the Starks into the North after being usurped from their homelands further south[[/labelnote]] are conspiring against the Bolton's to bring the Starks back as liegeliege lords]].



lords]].

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lords]].\n
28th Apr '16 7:33:03 AM molokai198
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** Then there are the various Northern Houses, who love their liege lords the Starks. They loved the Stark family so such that they, lord and commoner alike are prepared to march through blizzards, bone chilling cold in a state of near starvation or keep on fighting even when all hope is faded, for the sake of the Starks. Even after being [[spoiler:usurped by the Boltons, the North would not bend the knee to them, and House Manderly[[labelnote:*]]Which actually was originally an Andal noble house that was adopted by the Starks into the North after being usurped from their homelands further south[[/labelnote]] are conspiring against the Bolton's to bring the Starks back as liege lords]].

to:

** Then there are the various Northern Houses, who love their liege lords the Starks. They loved the Stark family so such that they, lord and commoner alike are prepared to march through blizzards, bone chilling cold in a state of near starvation or keep on fighting even when all hope is faded, for the sake of the Starks. Even after being [[spoiler:usurped by the Boltons, the North would not bend the knee to them, and House Manderly[[labelnote:*]]Which actually was originally an Andal noble house that was adopted by the Starks into the North after being usurped from their homelands further south[[/labelnote]] are conspiring against the Bolton's to bring the Starks back as liege liege
* In ''Literature/WingsOfFire'', adult dragons around the main characters are always telling them that dragons have no empathy, especially for other tribes. The dragonets themselves don't follow this, and it leads to them being able to escape from their guardian Kestrel by working together, something she never accounted for. This is also shown in terms of the queens - [[BadBoss Burn]] loses support in the civil war quickly despite being the presumed rightful heir with the largest initial base of support, while [[NiceGuy Blaze]] and [[TheHighQueen Glacier's]] side have no trouble gaining loyal supporters despite their [[LethallyStupid respective]] [[ManipulativeBastard flaws]].
lords]].
11th Apr '16 7:42:01 PM Fireblood
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** Seems to be the general ethos of House Tyrell. Loras thinks Renly would make a good king because the smallfolk like him, and Margaery tries this in Season 3 of ''Series/GameOfThrones'' with the people of King's Landing. This makes them a {{Foil}} to the Lannisters, who are utterly ruthless and will trample over anybody if it meant getting more power for the family, and [[spoiler:the Tyrells are quickly growing powerful enough to rival them]].

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** Seems to be the general ethos of House Tyrell. Loras thinks Renly would make a good king because the smallfolk like him, and Margaery tries this in Season 3 of ''Series/GameOfThrones'' with the people of King's Landing. This makes them a {{Foil}} to the Lannisters, who are utterly ruthless and will trample over anybody if it meant getting more power for the family, and [[spoiler:the Tyrells are quickly growing powerful enough to rival them]].


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* ''Series/GameOfThrones'': This seems to be the general ethos of House Tyrell. Loras thinks Renly would make a good king because the smallfolk like him, and Margaery tries this in Season 3 with the people of King's Landing. This makes them a {{foil}} to the Lannisters, who are utterly ruthless and will trample over anybody if it meant getting more power for the family, and [[spoiler:the Tyrells are quickly growing powerful enough to rival them. By Season 4 they marry into the royal family]].
3rd Mar '16 9:45:24 PM zarpaulus
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* This quite aptly describes the difference between Vito and Michael Corleone in ''Film/TheGodfather''. Vito built his criminal empire with an equal mixture of fear and respect, Michael doesn't quite seem to grasp that fear isn't all a Don needs and ends up in ruins.
20th Feb '16 7:13:35 AM Moopsball
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* ''VideoGame/CivilizationBeyondEarth Rising Tide'' has two RelationshipValues between other civilizations and yours, Fear and Respect. Respect is gained by doing things the other civilization likes, such as keeping your populace healthy or having a strong trade network, while Fear is gained by having a stronger military and encroaching on the other's territory. A sufficiently high value of either is needed to establish a cooperation agreement or alliance, but a civilization constantly pushed to high Fear levels will eventually snap and declare war.
15th Feb '16 12:50:15 PM TARINunit9
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This misunderstanding is due to the early English translations, which were {{Blind Idiot Translation}}s that turned the line "look to the consequences before you act" into "the ends justify the means." Incidentally, it's also worth noting that some scholars think ''The Prince'' was a [[PoesLaw satire]] of dictatorship since everything else he wrote directly contradicts ''The Prince'' - in other words, Machiavelli Was Joking.

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This misunderstanding is due to While we're on the early English translations, which were {{Blind Idiot Translation}}s that turned the line "look to the consequences before you act" into "the ends justify the means." Incidentally, subject, it's also worth noting that some scholars think ''The Prince'' was a [[PoesLaw satire]] of dictatorship since everything else he wrote directly contradicts ''The Prince'' - in other words, Machiavelli Was Joking.
Joking. The misunderstandings are due to the early English translations, which were {{Blind Idiot Translation}}s that turned the line "look to the consequences before you act" into "the ends justify the means."
19th Jan '16 6:20:40 AM WM-R
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*In the Transformers Prime prequel ''VideoGame/TransformersWarForCybertron'', Sentinel Prime, Optimus Prime's direct predecessor, is a cold, harsh leader who dismisses Megatron's revolt as insignificant and thinks nothing of throwing troops at the Decepticons despite heavy losses. As a result, Autobot forces will break and run fairly often. In the sequel ''VideoGame/TransformersFallOfCybertron'', Optimus Prime's AFatherToHisMen tendencies inspire them to fight to the death for him, some troops even wanting desperately to go back into the fight despite grievous wounds.
** Ironically, despite being a rather BadBoss (his first cutscene involves him blasting a soldier who questioned him), the Decepticons genuinely admire Megatron for being the sort of leader who will march at the head of his troops into battle.



* Somewhat of a subtle overtone in ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars''.
** Also seems to be played with in ''WesternAnimation/TransformersPrime''; Megatron's violent insanity and [[YouHaveFailedMe callous disregard for the lives of his own men]] means he maintains command of the Decepticons almost entirely through fear and [[UndyingLoyalty Soundwave]]. However, the problems in this are rife, as ''the'' Starscream is only the most prominent TheStarscream in his crew; if Soundwave wasn't around or didn't intervene on Megatron's behalf, the rest of the Decepticons would turn on Megatron in an instant if he were ever incapacitated.

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* Somewhat of a subtle overtone in ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars''.
** Also seems
''WesternAnimation/BeastWars''. While ThePowerOfLove is a huge part of why the Predacon Black Arachnia eventually defects to be played the heroic Maximals, another major reason was the fact that Megatron (despite being a MagnificentBastard) is a firm believer in keeping his troops in line through fear. For someone as free-spirited as Black Arachnia, Megatron's desire for absolute control chafed.
* ''WesternAnimation/TransformersPrime''plays
with in ''WesternAnimation/TransformersPrime''; this; Megatron's violent insanity and [[YouHaveFailedMe callous disregard for the lives of his own men]] means he maintains command of the Decepticons almost entirely through fear and [[UndyingLoyalty Soundwave]]. However, the problems in this are rife, as ''the'' Starscream is only the most prominent TheStarscream in his crew; if Soundwave wasn't around or didn't intervene on Megatron's behalf, the rest of the Decepticons would turn on Megatron in an instant if he were ever incapacitated.incapacitated.
** That said, many Decepticons (such as Skyquake and Shockwave) remain loyal to Megatron even after long absences.


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* ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsRebels'' has Rex, a veteran of the Clone Wars from ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars'' dismiss the Stormtroopers as inferior to the Clone Troopers of his era. A big part of that is the fact that the Clones were taught to fight and support each other in battle, while episodes of Rebels establish that Stormtroopers are specifically trained to only care for themselves.
12th Dec '15 7:27:13 PM nombretomado
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* In the ''XWingSeries'', Lara turns after realizing that all the important parts of the Empire are just that bad. It's mentioned that TIE pilots are kept in a constant state of paranoia so they can be loosed on the enemy.

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* In the ''XWingSeries'', ''ComicBook/XWingSeries'', Lara turns after realizing that all the important parts of the Empire are just that bad. It's mentioned that TIE pilots are kept in a constant state of paranoia so they can be loosed on the enemy.
12th Dec '15 2:56:16 PM eroock
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->''Whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with...\\
Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well being feared whilst he is not hated.''

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->''Whether ->''"Whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with...\\
Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well being feared whilst he is not hated.''"''
12th Nov '15 1:18:23 PM Hadjorim
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* Stalin in the Soviet Union in real life actually pulled this off perfectly, being simultaneously adored via his cult of personality while terrifying those who wielded power under him. Many people executed during the Terror died with Stalin's name on their lips, professing their loyalty (either in the belief this might save them, or in denial that Stalin was actually responsible). Molotov, Stalin's second-in-command who likely was soon to be purged himself (and he knew it), nonetheless wept at Stalin's deathbed. Many people refused to believe that Stalin knew what was going on. It is reported that after Stalin's death, and the gulag's were being emptied, a woman leaving a camp said, "So, Stalin saved us after all!" only for a nearby guard to say, "You fool! Stalin's dead!"

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* Stalin in the Soviet Union in real life actually pulled this off perfectly, being simultaneously adored via his cult of personality while terrifying those who wielded power under him. Many people executed during the Terror died with Stalin's name on their lips, professing their loyalty (either in the belief this might save them, or in denial that Stalin was actually responsible). Molotov, Stalin's second-in-command who likely was soon to be purged himself (and he knew it), nonetheless wept at Stalin's deathbed. Many people refused to believe that Stalin knew what was going on. It is reported that after Stalin's death, and the gulag's were being emptied, a woman leaving a camp said, "So, Stalin saved us after all!" only for a nearby guard to say, "You fool! Stalin's dead!"
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