History Main / MachiavelliWasWrong

20th Sep '17 11:53:16 PM darksoul4242
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* Played with in ''Manga/FullMetalAlchemist'' at Briggs Fortress. The soldiers are scared of their commanding officer, Major General Oliver Armstrong, but also extremely proud of 'our Ice Queen'. While she is [[IronLady definitely worthy of that title]], she still has [[AMotherToHerMen a soft spot for her soldiers]]. As regards to this trope, one could say they love her ''because'' she's scary.

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* Played with in ''Manga/FullMetalAlchemist'' at Briggs Fortress. The soldiers are scared of their commanding officer, Major General Oliver Armstrong, but also extremely proud of 'our Ice Queen'. While she is [[IronLady definitely worthy of that title]], she still has [[AMotherToHerMen a soft spot for her soldiers]]. As In regards to this trope, one could say they love her ''because'' she's scary.
2nd Sep '17 10:00:47 AM Discar
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* In the ''VideoGame/{{Pokemon}}'' games, the cheapest medicinal items, labeled as Bitter, hurt your Pokémon's Happiness points. So much for getting that Espeon (which evolves via level-up during the day only when it is extremely devoted to you), but if you love your Pokémon, you'll pay a bit more money to buy the medicine that ''doesn't'' taste bad. (Except for the Max Revive, which ''can't'' be bought save for the Bitter variety. [[FridgeBrilliance Tough call?]])
** One attack (Frustration) does more damage the less the mon likes you.

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* In the ''VideoGame/{{Pokemon}}'' games, the ''VideoGame/{{Pokemon}}'':
** The
cheapest medicinal items, labeled as Bitter, hurt your Pokémon's Happiness points. So much for getting that Espeon (which evolves via level-up during the day only when it is extremely devoted to you), but if you love your Pokémon, you'll pay a bit more money to buy the medicine that ''doesn't'' taste bad. (Except for the Max Revive, which ''can't'' be bought save for the Bitter variety. [[FridgeBrilliance Tough call?]])
** One attack (Frustration) does more damage the less the mon likes you. It's generally considered one of the least useful moves in the game, while the attack that does more damage the more the mon likes you (Return) is a good backup move.
2nd Sep '17 8:29:45 AM Vampireandthen
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** This seems to be the general ethos of House Tyrell. Loras thinks Renly would make a good king because the smallfolk like him and he would rule through love and respect rather than through strength and fear, and Margaery tries this in Season 3 with the people of King's Landing by being kind and generous to the poor, causing them to adore her. This makes them a {{foil}} to the Lannisters, who are utterly ruthless and will trample over anybody if it meant getting more power for the family, and [[spoiler:the Tyrells are quickly growing powerful enough to rival them. By Season 4 they marry into the royal family]].

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** This seems to be the general ethos of House Tyrell. Loras thinks Renly would make a good king because the smallfolk like him and he would rule through love and respect rather than through strength and fear, and Margaery tries this in Season 3 with the people of King's Landing by being kind and generous to the poor, causing them to adore her. This makes them a {{foil}} to the Lannisters, who are utterly ruthless and will trample over anybody if it meant getting more power for the family, and [[spoiler:the Tyrells are quickly growing powerful enough to rival them. By Season 4 they marry into the royal family]].family. However, come Season 7, several of their bannermen, including Lord Randall Tarly, their most loyal bannermen, turn against them out of loyalty to the crown, with Dany invading with dragons. Highgarden, their seat, is burned, and their line is ended. It is rather convoluted writing, though.]]
2nd Sep '17 7:44:20 AM Vampireandthen
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** There ''is'' however a story that indicates it may have backfired on him ultimately: his aides and staff were so scared of earning his ire, nobody was willing to go "wake him up" when he was oversleeping by hours and hours one day. Turns out he had suffered a stroke, one that ''may'' not have been fatal if it were caught sooner.

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** There ''is'' however a story that indicates it may have backfired on him ultimately: his aides and staff were so scared of earning his ire, nobody was willing to go "wake him up" when he was oversleeping by hours and hours one day. Turns out he had suffered a stroke, one that ''may'' not have been fatal if it were caught sooner. This, or they just outright lied about it, and pretty much let him die.
31st Jul '17 5:51:47 AM TheAmazingBlachman
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The trope name comes, obviously, from the popular reputation of Creator/NiccoloMachiavelli's ''Literature/ThePrince'', which is often paraphrased as saying that it is better to rule by fear than by love. People (and fictional villains) often forget an important thing Machiavelli pointed out, however - it is preferable to be both feared ''and'' loved, choosing fear over love only when you can't have both, and that in any event it is vital to avoid being ''[[ZeroPercentApprovalRating hated]]'', since if you are hated people will be willing to suffer just to oppose you. Best of all is to command obedience through ''respect''. In essence, it'd be more true to form to say "Machiavelli was right" if not for this popular misunderstanding.

to:

The trope name comes, obviously, from the popular reputation of Creator/NiccoloMachiavelli's ''Literature/ThePrince'', which is often paraphrased as saying that it is better to rule by fear than by love. People (and fictional villains) often forget an important thing Machiavelli pointed out, however - -- it is preferable to be both feared ''and'' loved, choosing fear over love only when you can't have both, and that in any event it is vital to avoid being ''[[ZeroPercentApprovalRating hated]]'', since if you are hated people will be willing to suffer just to oppose you. Best of all is to command obedience through ''respect''. In essence, it'd be more true to form to say "Machiavelli was right" if not for this popular misunderstanding.
19th Jul '17 11:17:17 AM gtking123
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Added DiffLines:

* The contrasting fates of the chimpanzee brothers ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasakela_Chimpanzee_Community#Freud Freud and Frodo]]'' are an example of this. Freud built good relationships with the other chimpanzees (although he could be tough too) and when he was unseated as the alpha male, he was able to go into retirement as a middle-ranking make and lived to a ripe old age. Frodo was a large and agressive chimpanzee who ruled by fear. He was violently unseated when he became ill and was then largely isolated, eventually dying of an infected bite wound to his groin.
9th Jul '17 1:58:58 PM ThraggLootrippa
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* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred and even defections from members that had grown to despise the Brigades' indiscriminate violence more than they hated the Italian government, and the Italian magistrates (who offered lowered sentences and protection to any defectors and kept their word) and police forces were finally able to dismantle the previously unassailable organization thanks to the defectors' informations.

to:

* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations information they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, murders that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred and even defections from members that had grown to despise the Brigades' indiscriminate violence more than they hated the Italian government, and the Italian magistrates (who offered lowered sentences and protection to any defectors and kept their word) and police forces were finally able to dismantle the previously unassailable organization thanks to the defectors' informations.information.
20th Jun '17 11:51:53 AM EDP
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* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred and even defections from members that had grown to despise the Brigades' indiscriminate violence more than they hated the Italian government, and the Italian magistrates (who offered lowered sentences and protection to any defectors and kept their word) and police forces were finally able to dismantle the entire organization thanks to the defectors' informations.

to:

* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred and even defections from members that had grown to despise the Brigades' indiscriminate violence more than they hated the Italian government, and the Italian magistrates (who offered lowered sentences and protection to any defectors and kept their word) and police forces were finally able to dismantle the entire previously unassailable organization thanks to to the defectors' informations.
20th Jun '17 11:51:32 AM EDP
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* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred, and the police forces were finally able to dismantle the entire organization because they alienated their own support base and their enemies finally hated them more than they feared them.

to:

* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred, hatred and even defections from members that had grown to despise the Brigades' indiscriminate violence more than they hated the Italian government, and the Italian magistrates (who offered lowered sentences and protection to any defectors and kept their word) and police forces were finally able to dismantle the entire organization because they alienated their own support base and their enemies finally hated them more than they feared them.thanks to the defectors' informations.
20th Jun '17 11:48:11 AM EDP
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Added DiffLines:

* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred, and the police forces were finally able to dismantle the entire organization because they alienated their own support base and their enemies finally hated them more than they feared them.
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