History Main / MachiavelliWasWrong

31st Jul '17 5:51:47 AM TheAmazingBlachman
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The trope name comes, obviously, from the popular reputation of Creator/NiccoloMachiavelli's ''Literature/ThePrince'', which is often paraphrased as saying that it is better to rule by fear than by love. People (and fictional villains) often forget an important thing Machiavelli pointed out, however - it is preferable to be both feared ''and'' loved, choosing fear over love only when you can't have both, and that in any event it is vital to avoid being ''[[ZeroPercentApprovalRating hated]]'', since if you are hated people will be willing to suffer just to oppose you. Best of all is to command obedience through ''respect''. In essence, it'd be more true to form to say "Machiavelli was right" if not for this popular misunderstanding.

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The trope name comes, obviously, from the popular reputation of Creator/NiccoloMachiavelli's ''Literature/ThePrince'', which is often paraphrased as saying that it is better to rule by fear than by love. People (and fictional villains) often forget an important thing Machiavelli pointed out, however - -- it is preferable to be both feared ''and'' loved, choosing fear over love only when you can't have both, and that in any event it is vital to avoid being ''[[ZeroPercentApprovalRating hated]]'', since if you are hated people will be willing to suffer just to oppose you. Best of all is to command obedience through ''respect''. In essence, it'd be more true to form to say "Machiavelli was right" if not for this popular misunderstanding.
19th Jul '17 11:17:17 AM gtking123
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* The contrasting fates of the chimpanzee brothers ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasakela_Chimpanzee_Community#Freud Freud and Frodo]]'' are an example of this. Freud built good relationships with the other chimpanzees (although he could be tough too) and when he was unseated as the alpha male, he was able to go into retirement as a middle-ranking make and lived to a ripe old age. Frodo was a large and agressive chimpanzee who ruled by fear. He was violently unseated when he became ill and was then largely isolated, eventually dying of an infected bite wound to his groin.
9th Jul '17 1:58:58 PM ThraggLootrippa
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* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred and even defections from members that had grown to despise the Brigades' indiscriminate violence more than they hated the Italian government, and the Italian magistrates (who offered lowered sentences and protection to any defectors and kept their word) and police forces were finally able to dismantle the previously unassailable organization thanks to the defectors' informations.

to:

* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations information they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, murders that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred and even defections from members that had grown to despise the Brigades' indiscriminate violence more than they hated the Italian government, and the Italian magistrates (who offered lowered sentences and protection to any defectors and kept their word) and police forces were finally able to dismantle the previously unassailable organization thanks to the defectors' informations.information.
20th Jun '17 11:51:53 AM EDP
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* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred and even defections from members that had grown to despise the Brigades' indiscriminate violence more than they hated the Italian government, and the Italian magistrates (who offered lowered sentences and protection to any defectors and kept their word) and police forces were finally able to dismantle the entire organization thanks to the defectors' informations.

to:

* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred and even defections from members that had grown to despise the Brigades' indiscriminate violence more than they hated the Italian government, and the Italian magistrates (who offered lowered sentences and protection to any defectors and kept their word) and police forces were finally able to dismantle the entire previously unassailable organization thanks to to the defectors' informations.
20th Jun '17 11:51:32 AM EDP
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* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred, and the police forces were finally able to dismantle the entire organization because they alienated their own support base and their enemies finally hated them more than they feared them.

to:

* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred, hatred and even defections from members that had grown to despise the Brigades' indiscriminate violence more than they hated the Italian government, and the Italian magistrates (who offered lowered sentences and protection to any defectors and kept their word) and police forces were finally able to dismantle the entire organization because they alienated their own support base and their enemies finally hated them more than they feared them.thanks to the defectors' informations.
20th Jun '17 11:48:11 AM EDP
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Added DiffLines:

* This was the end of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Brigate Rosse]]'' (Red Brigades) terrorist group: feared enough that one man could rob a bank by walking in and telling the director he was from the Red Brigades (to this day it's unknown if it was a bluff from a lone robber or an actual member of the Brigades), their murder of popular right wing politician Aldo Moro alienated them from both parts of their left wing support base and ''their own founders'' (who had been already caught and convicted years before), who provided the police and the ''Carabinieri'' with the informations they needed to track down and arrest numerous members of the Brigades and cut off some of their sources of revenue. Their reprisal murders, that targeted, among others, a popular leftist union leader, only caused further hatred, and the police forces were finally able to dismantle the entire organization because they alienated their own support base and their enemies finally hated them more than they feared them.
28th May '17 9:55:29 AM gb00393
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* ''Series/GameOfThrones'': This seems to be the general ethos of House Tyrell. Loras thinks Renly would make a good king because the smallfolk like him and he would rule through love and respect rather than through strength and fear, and Margaery tries this in Season 3 with the people of King's Landing by being kind and generous to the poor, causing them to adore her. This makes them a {{foil}} to the Lannisters, who are utterly ruthless and will trample over anybody if it meant getting more power for the family, and [[spoiler:the Tyrells are quickly growing powerful enough to rival them. By Season 4 they marry into the royal family]].

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* ''Series/GameOfThrones'': ''Series/GameOfThrones'':
**
This seems to be the general ethos of House Tyrell. Loras thinks Renly would make a good king because the smallfolk like him and he would rule through love and respect rather than through strength and fear, and Margaery tries this in Season 3 with the people of King's Landing by being kind and generous to the poor, causing them to adore her. This makes them a {{foil}} to the Lannisters, who are utterly ruthless and will trample over anybody if it meant getting more power for the family, and [[spoiler:the Tyrells are quickly growing powerful enough to rival them. By Season 4 they marry into the royal family]].family]].
** PlayedWith with Roose Bolton. Roose understands that ruling only through fear and tyranny is a good way to get people to rise up against you.
--> '''Roose:''' We can't hold the North with terror alone.
21st May '17 5:34:43 AM LadyJaneGrey
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* In the final episode of ''WesternAnimation/SamuraiJack'', [[spoiler: this Trope is played very straight when Aku tries to crush the hopes of any would-be resistance by broadcasting Jack's execution on television. It has the opposite result he intended, with a ''army'' of Jack's allies assaulting his palace in a RoaringRampageOfrescue.]]
11th Apr '17 10:31:41 AM IndustriousArc
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[[folder: FanFiction]]

* ''FanFic/ABrighterDark:'' Played straight to the detriment of Ryoma, who tries to use force to keep the self-indulgent and prideful lords under his command in line long enough to win the war against nohr. This comes back to hurt him when 12 of them band together and declare their independence, their total armies out-numbering his own, thus removing his power over them.
[[/folder]]
2nd Apr '17 6:44:28 PM Gamermaster
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* In ‘’WesternAnimation/TheTransformersTheMovie’’: The Autobots show concern, and reverence for [[AFatherToHisMen Optimus Prime]] even in his dying moments when he’s a liability to them. This is contrasted with [[BadBoss Megatron]] who when wounded, has to [[AintTooProudToBeg beg]] [[TheDragon his second in command]] Soundwave just not to leave him behind. When his Decepticon minions realize they could [[ColdEquation jettison the wounded]] on [[AutomatedAutomobiles AstroTrain]] to make it go faster, Megatron is ThrownOutTheAirlock despite his pleas, no one lifting a finger to help him.

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* In ‘’WesternAnimation/TheTransformersTheMovie’’: ''WesternAnimation/TheTransformersTheMovie'': The Autobots show concern, and reverence for [[AFatherToHisMen Optimus Prime]] even in his dying moments when he’s a liability to them. This is contrasted with [[BadBoss Megatron]] who when wounded, has to [[AintTooProudToBeg beg]] [[TheDragon his second in command]] Soundwave just not to leave him behind. When his Decepticon minions realize they could [[ColdEquation jettison the wounded]] on [[AutomatedAutomobiles AstroTrain]] to make it go faster, Megatron is ThrownOutTheAirlock despite his pleas, no one lifting a finger to help him.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.MachiavelliWasWrong