History Main / LowLevelAdvantage

25th Nov '16 12:06:12 PM DastardlyDemolition
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** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyI'', your stats growth was affected by your current class, so you got the best stats by leveling up as little as possible before the class upgrades.
*** The above only applies to the remakes from 'Dawn of Souls' and up. The original NES and Origins versions averted this: the stats each class gained on level-up were determined by a table, each level having certain 'guaranteed to go' stats. Every time you levelled, you automatically gained a point in each of those stats, as well as having a 25% chance for each of your other stats to go up. The only character who actually suffered from this trope was the Black Belt, who gained 4 magic defense (a hidden stat) per level, while after class change, the Grand Master only gained 1 magic defense per level, presumably as a result of a bug. Having a ribbon (all elemental resistances) equipped made it moot though.
** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII'', all of your stats except max HP change upon changing classes. You gain HP based on your Vitality stat when you level up, so it's best to wait until you open the Karateka or Ninja classes which have the highest Vitality to do a lot of your LevelGrinding if you want to have more HP at the end. Similarly, you might want to unlock and change to the initial job classes as soon as possible to avoid weak HP gains from being Onion Knights.



** Here's a marginal example in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'': The final boss - Sephiroth - gets a severe stat-boost if you've hit the level cap at 99. Anything below that, and he'll have his original stats, meaning that the ideal conditions for taking him on is Level 98. He'll also get a massive HP boost if you've been spamming Knights of the Round on the two bosses before him.



** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyI'', your stats growth was affected by your current class, so you got the best stats by leveling up as little as possible before the class upgrades.
*** The above only applies to the remakes from 'Dawn of Souls' and up. The original NES and Origins versions averted this: the stats each class gained on level-up were determined by a table, each level having certain 'guaranteed to go' stats. Every time you levelled, you automatically gained a point in each of those stats, as well as having a 25% chance for each of your other stats to go up. The only character who actually suffered from this trope was the Black Belt, who gained 4 magic defense (a hidden stat) per level, while after class change, the Grand Master only gained 1 magic defense per level, presumably as a result of a bug. Having a ribbon (all elemental resistances) equipped made it moot though.
** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII'', all of your stats except max HP change upon changing classes. You gain HP based on your Vitality stat when you level up, so it's best to wait until you open the Karateka or Ninja classes which have the highest Vitality to do a lot of your LevelGrinding if you want to have more HP at the end. Similarly, you might want to unlock and change to the initial job classes as soon as possible to avoid weak HP gains from being Onion Knights.
* Here's a marginal example in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'': The final boss - Sephiroth - gets a severe stat-boost if you've hit the level cap at 99. Anything below that, and he'll have his original stats, meaning that the ideal conditions for taking him on is Level 98. He'll also get a massive HP boost if you've been spamming Knights of the Round on the two bosses before him.
25th Nov '16 12:04:15 PM DastardlyDemolition
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* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'', most Espers give a special level up stat bonus. Therefore, it's best to save all your level ups for when you have some Espers with stat bonuses.

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* The ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'' series:
**
In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'', most Espers give a special level up stat bonus. Therefore, it's best to save all your level ups for when you have some Espers with stat bonuses.
6th Oct '16 7:19:58 PM nombretomado
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* An ''EverQuest'' server made PlayerVersusPlayer combat ineffective against characters under level 6. [[http://www.notacult.com/fansythefamous.htm Fansy the Famous Bard]] exploited this by "training" monsters. This involved taunting monsters and running away from them toward player characters of the opposite faction so that the monsters would slay the other characters. Because this FragileSpeedster never got any kills himself, he stayed on level 5.
* ''WorldOfWarcraft'' features a heavily reduced difficulty curve for players below level 20, primarily affecting mana and health regeneration but also how certain stat modifiers scale. The curve is pronounced enough that a properly equipped level 1 character could theoretically outdamage a level 10. However, since base stats are fixed at each level, there's no advantage to exploiting this in the long term unless you plan to be a Battlegrounds twink.

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* An ''EverQuest'' ''VideoGame/EverQuest'' server made PlayerVersusPlayer combat ineffective against characters under level 6. [[http://www.notacult.com/fansythefamous.htm Fansy the Famous Bard]] exploited this by "training" monsters. This involved taunting monsters and running away from them toward player characters of the opposite faction so that the monsters would slay the other characters. Because this FragileSpeedster never got any kills himself, he stayed on level 5.
* ''WorldOfWarcraft'' ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' features a heavily reduced difficulty curve for players below level 20, primarily affecting mana and health regeneration but also how certain stat modifiers scale. The curve is pronounced enough that a properly equipped level 1 character could theoretically outdamage a level 10. However, since base stats are fixed at each level, there's no advantage to exploiting this in the long term unless you plan to be a Battlegrounds twink.
26th Aug '16 9:01:52 AM Morgenthaler
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[[AC:ActionAdventure]]

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*** If you ''do'' level up, it's best to wait until you have <Stat> Bonus abilities, which award an extra point (in the case of HP, an extra 10) to that respective stat upon leveling.
*** In fact without those <Stat> Bonus abilities, enemy stats generally increase faster than your party's, not to mention that enemies will gain new attacks at higher levels, making the game harder if you level.

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*** If you ''do'' level up, it's best to wait until you have <Stat> Bonus abilities, which award an extra point (in the case of HP, an extra 10) to that respective stat upon leveling.
*** In fact without those <Stat> Bonus abilities, enemy stats generally increase faster than your party's, not to mention that enemies will gain new attacks at higher levels, making the game harder if you level.



** The mons tend to learn moves faster at lower EvolutionaryLevels. Therefore, sometimes it's best to keep them from evolving until they learn their final move, which can be five to 10 levels lower than in the evolved form. Also, Pokemon that evolve using stones, with the exception of Eevee, have a very limited movepool in its evolved forms, so it's better to not evolve them after their previous form has learned all the attacks it needs. Some moves can only be learned if a Pokémon is at a particular stage of development, and if it evolves to early, they won't be able to get it at all.

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** The mons tend to learn moves faster at lower EvolutionaryLevels. Therefore, sometimes it's best to keep them from evolving until they learn their final move, which can be five to 10 levels lower than in the evolved form. Also, Pokemon that evolve using stones, with the exception of Eevee, have a very limited movepool in its evolved forms, so it's better to not evolve them after their previous form has learned all the attacks it needs. Some moves can only be learned if a Pokémon is at a particular stage of development, and if it evolves to early, they won't be able to get it at all.



[[AC:Survival Horror]]
* In ''VideoGame/DeadIsland'' the enemies gain power along with the player so often leveling up only serves to reduce the effectiveness of your current equipment. This is especially obvious in subsequent playthroughs where you can earn huge XP rewards for challenges that were partially completed by your predecessor, giving you multiple simultaneous level ups that tend to leave you rather helpless until you can find some upgrades. At very low levels the enemies can be killed pretty easily and you can make use of the numerous grey quality weapons that are soon rendered useless as the enemies toughen up. Unfortunately XP cannot really be avoided as you receive large amounts for completing story missions.

[[AC:Tabletop Games]]

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[[AC:Survival Horror]]
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* In ''VideoGame/DeadIsland'' the enemies gain power along with the player so often leveling up only serves to reduce the effectiveness of your current equipment. This is especially obvious in subsequent playthroughs where you can earn huge XP rewards for challenges that were partially completed by your predecessor, giving you multiple simultaneous level ups that tend to leave you rather helpless until you can find some upgrades. At very low levels the enemies can be killed pretty easily and you can make use of the numerous grey quality weapons that are soon rendered useless as the enemies toughen up. Unfortunately XP cannot really be avoided as you receive large amounts for completing story missions.

[[AC:Tabletop Games]]
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[[folder: Tabletop Games ]]


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26th Aug '16 7:30:39 AM Morgenthaler
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* In ''DeadIsland'' the enemies gain power along with the player so often leveling up only serves to reduce the effectiveness of your current equipment. This is especially obvious in subsequent playthroughs where you can earn huge XP rewards for challenges that were partially completed by your predecessor, giving you multiple simultaneous level ups that tend to leave you rather helpless until you can find some upgrades. At very low levels the enemies can be killed pretty easily and you can make use of the numerous grey quality weapons that are soon rendered useless as the enemies toughen up. Unfortunately XP cannot really be avoided as you receive large amounts for completing story missions.

to:

* In ''DeadIsland'' ''VideoGame/DeadIsland'' the enemies gain power along with the player so often leveling up only serves to reduce the effectiveness of your current equipment. This is especially obvious in subsequent playthroughs where you can earn huge XP rewards for challenges that were partially completed by your predecessor, giving you multiple simultaneous level ups that tend to leave you rather helpless until you can find some upgrades. At very low levels the enemies can be killed pretty easily and you can make use of the numerous grey quality weapons that are soon rendered useless as the enemies toughen up. Unfortunately XP cannot really be avoided as you receive large amounts for completing story missions.
10th Aug '16 12:02:48 PM Willbyr
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* In ''{{Pokemon}}'', the mons tend to learn moves faster at lower EvolutionaryLevels. Therefore, sometimes it's best to keep them from evolving until they learn their final move, which can be five to 10 levels lower than in the evolved form. Also, Pokemon that evolve using stones, with the exception of Eevee, have a very limited movepool in its evolved forms, so it's better to not evolve them after their previous form has learned all the attacks it needs. Some moves can only be learned if a Pokémon is at a particular stage of development, and if it evolves to early, they won't be able to get it at all.

to:

* In ''{{Pokemon}}'', the ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'':
** The
mons tend to learn moves faster at lower EvolutionaryLevels. Therefore, sometimes it's best to keep them from evolving until they learn their final move, which can be five to 10 levels lower than in the evolved form. Also, Pokemon that evolve using stones, with the exception of Eevee, have a very limited movepool in its evolved forms, so it's better to not evolve them after their previous form has learned all the attacks it needs. Some moves can only be learned if a Pokémon is at a particular stage of development, and if it evolves to early, they won't be able to get it at all.



* In the fifth generation of ''{{Pokemon}}'', particularly in ''Black 2'' and ''White 2'', monsters would receive more experience from an enemy the lower the level of said monster. The equation didn't account well for level 1 monsters, which are only obtainable by breeding. With the proper exp modifiers, a level 1 mon could shoot up to somewhere between 50 and 70 by being swapped in during a high level trainer battle with a Blissey or Chansey. Attempt to do this at a higher level (i.e. 30) and you'll only end up gaining about 10 levels or so, if you're lucky.

to:

* ** In the fifth generation of ''{{Pokemon}}'', generation, particularly in ''Black 2'' and ''White 2'', monsters would receive more experience from an enemy the lower the level of said monster. The equation didn't account well for level 1 monsters, which are only obtainable by breeding. With the proper exp modifiers, a level 1 mon could shoot up to somewhere between 50 and 70 by being swapped in during a high level trainer battle with a Blissey or Chansey. Attempt to do this at a higher level (i.e. 30) and you'll only end up gaining about 10 levels or so, if you're lucky.
23rd May '16 1:37:05 PM thatother1dude
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* Since ''VideoGame/DemonsSouls'' and ''VideoGame/DarkSoulsI'' determines invasion and summon matchups by [[CharacterLevel Soul Level]], your ability relative to other players you fight is increased by finding better equipment and spending [[PracticalCurrency Souls]] to upgrade it instead of leveling up. Some {{griefer}}s take this to the extreme, using [[MinimalistRun low-level runs]] and GoodBadBugs to twink insanely powerful late-game weapons and armor for curbstomping people only hours into the game. Later entries and ''Bloodborne'' make various attempts to counter this:
** ''VideoGame/DarkSoulsII'' instead bases matchups on the total number of souls you've collected, which is theoretically a better indicator of a player character's power. This is a bit broken in the other direction: it's quite possible for someone to amass a lot of souls but lose them from dying, or lose a moderate amount of souls frequently. This would make you have a high value despite being low everywhere else except play time since you never actually used those souls for anything.

to:

* Since ''VideoGame/DemonsSouls'' and ''VideoGame/DarkSoulsI'' determines invasion and summon matchups by [[CharacterLevel Soul Level]], your ability relative to other players you fight is increased by finding better equipment and spending [[PracticalCurrency Souls]] to upgrade it instead of leveling up. Some {{griefer}}s take this to the extreme, using [[MinimalistRun low-level runs]] and GoodBadBugs to twink insanely powerful late-game weapons and armor for curbstomping people only hours into the game. This was even worse in ''I'', as Invaders could get a lot of Humanity to increase their defense without raising their level. Later entries and ''Bloodborne'' make various attempts to counter this:
** ''VideoGame/DarkSoulsII'' instead bases matchups on the total number of souls you've collected, which is collected. It's theoretically a better indicator of a player character's power. This is power, but a bit broken in the other direction: it's quite possible for someone to amass a lot of souls but lose them from dying, or lose a moderate amount of souls frequently. This would make you have a high value despite being low everywhere else except play time since you never actually used those souls for anything.
22nd May '16 3:40:36 AM Quanyails
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* In the fifth generation of ''{{Pokemon}}'', particularly in Black 2 and White 2, monsters would receive more experience from an enemy the lower the level of said monster. The equation didn't account well for level 1 monsters, which are only obtainable by breeding. With the proper exp modifiers, a level 1 mon could shoot up to somewhere between 50 and 70 by being swapped in during a high level trainer battle with a Blissey or Chansey. Attempt to do this at a higher level (i.e. 30) and you'll only end up gaining about 10 levels or so, if you're lucky.

to:

* In the fifth generation of ''{{Pokemon}}'', particularly in Black 2 ''Black 2'' and White 2, ''White 2'', monsters would receive more experience from an enemy the lower the level of said monster. The equation didn't account well for level 1 monsters, which are only obtainable by breeding. With the proper exp modifiers, a level 1 mon could shoot up to somewhere between 50 and 70 by being swapped in during a high level trainer battle with a Blissey or Chansey. Attempt to do this at a higher level (i.e. 30) and you'll only end up gaining about 10 levels or so, if you're lucky.
13th Apr '16 10:41:56 AM thatother1dude
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* Since ''VideoGame/DemonsSouls'' and ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'' determines invasion and summon matchups by [[CharacterLevel Soul Level]], your ability relative to other players you fight is increased by finding better equipment and spending [[PracticalCurrency Souls]] to upgrade it instead of leveling up. Some {{griefer}}s take this to the extreme, using [[MinimalistRun low-level runs]] and GoodBadBugs to twink insanely powerful late-game weapons and armor for curbstomping people only hours into the game. In an attempt to counter this, ''VideoGame/DarkSoulsII'' instead bases matchups on the total number of souls you've collected, though that system is a bit broken in the other direction: it's quite possible for someone to amass a lot of souls but lose them from dying, or lose a moderate amount of souls frequently. This would make you have a high value despite being low everywhere else except play time since you never actually used those souls for anything. ''VideoGame/{{Bloodborne}}'' went back to level-based matching-making but just prevented invading the world of anyone below level 30 unless they actively used Sinister Resonant Bell to summon Chime Maiden (it doesn't stop people below Level 30 from invading the others however), and ''VideoGame/DarkSoulsIII'' also returned to level-based matching-making.

to:

* Since ''VideoGame/DemonsSouls'' and ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'' ''VideoGame/DarkSoulsI'' determines invasion and summon matchups by [[CharacterLevel Soul Level]], your ability relative to other players you fight is increased by finding better equipment and spending [[PracticalCurrency Souls]] to upgrade it instead of leveling up. Some {{griefer}}s take this to the extreme, using [[MinimalistRun low-level runs]] and GoodBadBugs to twink insanely powerful late-game weapons and armor for curbstomping people only hours into the game. In an attempt Later entries and ''Bloodborne'' make various attempts to counter this, this:
**
''VideoGame/DarkSoulsII'' instead bases matchups on the total number of souls you've collected, though that system which is theoretically a better indicator of a player character's power. This is a bit broken in the other direction: it's quite possible for someone to amass a lot of souls but lose them from dying, or lose a moderate amount of souls frequently. This would make you have a high value despite being low everywhere else except play time since you never actually used those souls for anything. anything.
**
''VideoGame/{{Bloodborne}}'' went back to level-based matching-making but just prevented invading the world of anyone below level 30 unless they actively used Sinister Resonant Bell to summon Chime Maiden (it doesn't stop people below Level 30 from invading the others however), and however).
**
''VideoGame/DarkSoulsIII'' also returned to level-based matching-making.
bases invasions on both Soul Level ''and'' the level of the most upgraded weapon in your possession (armor is no longer upgraded).
1st Feb '16 5:43:33 PM nombretomado
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* In ''PlanescapeTorment'', the combat stats of the BigBad scale with The Nameless One's level (and this is [[JustifiedTrope justified by the plot]].) Of course, with so many ways of TalkingTheMonsterToDeath, fighting remains a sub-par option in any circumstance.
* ''TacticsOgre'''s GaidenGame ''The Knight of Lodis'' has a rather interesting strategy. You do level the main character, but you purposely keep him out of the sidelines and several levels below the main party. The game uses a level scaling system that will set the boss so that they will be above the main level of the leader and the units will be within 1-2 levels of him. But when your other 7 characters are much stronger than he is...ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill.

to:

* In ''PlanescapeTorment'', ''VideoGame/PlanescapeTorment'', the combat stats of the BigBad scale with The Nameless One's level (and this is [[JustifiedTrope justified by the plot]].) Of course, with so many ways of TalkingTheMonsterToDeath, fighting remains a sub-par option in any circumstance.
* ''TacticsOgre'''s ''VideoGame/TacticsOgre'''s GaidenGame ''The ''[[VideoGame/TacticsOgreTheKnightOfLodis The Knight of Lodis'' Lodis]]'' has a rather interesting strategy. You do level the main character, but you purposely keep him out of the sidelines and several levels below the main party. The game uses a level scaling system that will set the boss so that they will be above the main level of the leader and the units will be within 1-2 levels of him. But when your other 7 characters are much stronger than he is...ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill.
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