History Main / LimitedAdvancementOpportunities

22nd Apr '18 4:33:53 PM yarrunmace
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** Most characters have undergone several promotions, but Schlock was promoted rapidly to corporal and then sergeant early on, and then stopped there, because no-one wants him to be an officer, especially Schlock himself. He has deliberately stayed a Sergeant even in periods where he technically owned the company and could dictate his own terms. Compare Breya, who made herself an Admiral in the same position. The closest he ever got to wanting to progress was being disappointed by the fact that only officers get "epaulet grenades".
** On the other hand, Maxim 2: A Sergeant in motion outranks a Lieutenant who doesn't know what's going on. Officers, including company commander Tagon and almost-godlike Petey will listen to him because he's combat savvy and has kept his memories through certain plot events.

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** Most While most characters have undergone several promotions, but Schlock was promoted rapidly to corporal and then sergeant early on, and then stopped there, because no-one wants there. While he's one of the most experienced soldiers in Tagon's Toughs, a fact that his commanding officers and many high-ranking figures in the galaxy respect, he's repeatedly shown a lack of wisdom that keeps his command from promoting him any higher. Considering he's had a few opportunities to be an officer, especially Schlock himself. He has deliberately stayed get a Sergeant even in periods where commissioned position, including the time he technically temporarily owned the company and could dictate his own terms. Compare Breya, who made herself an Admiral company, it's safe to say that he's not interested in the same position. getting promoted himself. The closest he ever got to wanting to progress was being disappointed by the fact that only officers get "epaulet grenades".
** On the other hand, Maxim 2: A Sergeant in motion outranks a Lieutenant who doesn't know what's going on. Officers, including company commander Tagon and almost-godlike Petey will listen to him because he's combat savvy and has kept his memories through certain plot events.
grenades".
7th Apr '18 2:54:01 PM costanton11
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** Bones goes from Lieutenant Commander to full Commander in the movies, and by the time of his [[TheCameo cameo]] in the TNG pilot, is an Admiral.

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** Bones goes from Lieutenant Commander to full Commander in the movies, and by the time of his [[TheCameo cameo]] in the TNG pilot, is an Admiral.Admiral of an unspecified grade.
7th Apr '18 12:49:58 PM Gamermaster
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*** In "The Best of Both Worlds", Riker was promoted to Captain. Count the pips on his collar -- he's got four. Then in "Family", he's back to Commander again. [[FridgeLogic The only explanation]] is that he's somehow engineered a demotion for himself. Maybe he got Troi to say he was psychologically incapable of command or something. It'd explain why it took so long for him to get back to captain again. Why the writers felt the need to demote him is unclear; ''[[Film/StarTrekIVTheVoyageHome Star Trek IV]]'' shows that there's no rule against the ship's commanding officer and first officer both holding the rank of Captain (and the ''Enterprise''-A actually had ''three'' captains, due to Scotty's promotion to "Captain of Engineering" in ''[[Film/StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock Star Trek III]][[note]]The ending of ''Star Trek IV'' showed Scotty wearing a commander's rank badge again, anticipating his promotion being nullified, but as Kirk was the only one officially punished, the next three films and "Relics" confirmed he kept the promotion[[/note]]), and Picard would still have decades of seniority over Riker.

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*** In "The Best of Both Worlds", Riker was promoted to Captain. Count the pips on his collar -- he's got four. Then in "Family", he's back to Commander again. [[FridgeLogic The only explanation]] is that he's somehow engineered a demotion for himself. Maybe he got Troi to say he was psychologically incapable of command or something. It'd explain why it took so long for him to get back to captain again. Why the writers felt the need to demote him is unclear; ''[[Film/StarTrekIVTheVoyageHome Star Trek IV]]'' shows that there's no rule against the ship's commanding officer and first officer both holding the rank of Captain (and the ''Enterprise''-A actually had ''three'' captains, due to Scotty's promotion to "Captain of Engineering" in ''[[Film/StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock Star Trek III]][[note]]The III]]'' [[note]]The ending of ''Star Trek IV'' showed Scotty wearing a commander's rank badge again, anticipating his promotion being nullified, but as Kirk was the only one officially punished, the next three films and "Relics" confirmed he kept the promotion[[/note]]), promotion [[/note]]), and Picard would still have decades of seniority over Riker.
2nd Apr '18 10:48:29 AM RedScharlach
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** Averting this particular trope with the TOS crew created another sort of problem. By ''[[Film/StarTrekVTheFinalFrontier Star Trek V]]'' The ''Enterprise'' had three crew members--Kirk, Spock, and Scotty--who held the rank of captain. It was also non-canonicly suggested that Mr. Sulu had been granted command of the ''Starship Excelsior'' by this time, but retained his commander rank until he actually transferred to the vessel; making him an unofficial fourth captain.

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** Averting this particular trope with the TOS crew created another sort of problem. By ''[[Film/StarTrekVTheFinalFrontier Star Trek V]]'' The ''Enterprise'' had three crew members--Kirk, Spock, and Scotty--who held the rank of captain. It was also non-canonicly non-canonically suggested that Mr. Sulu had been granted command of the ''Starship Excelsior'' by this time, but retained his commander rank until he actually transferred to the vessel; making him an unofficial fourth captain.



** Then was Grissom lying on the orginal ''Series/{{CSI}}'' when he offered Ray Langston the open CSI Level 1 slot, saying that as a medical doctor he was totally qualified for the position?

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** Then was Grissom lying on the orginal original ''Series/{{CSI}}'' when he offered Ray Langston the open CSI Level 1 slot, saying that as a medical doctor he was totally qualified for the position?



** It's played with concerning Doug, who's so bad at being a Doctor he has to repeat his residency. Eventually he's employed in the morgue, where the worst he can do is misplace some bodies.

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** It's played with concerning Doug, who's so bad at being a Doctor doctor that he has to repeat his residency. Eventually he's employed in the morgue, where the worst he can do is misplace some bodies.



** This was discussed in an episode where the staff learn of a new MASH unit being prepared and they are afraid that they would be split up, even if that presumably could come with promotions for the gang. When the evaluator for the staff finally learns of this concern, he makes clear that the 4077th staff is considered too valuable in its current composition to break up.

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** This was discussed in an episode where the staff learn of a new MASH unit being prepared and they are afraid that they would will be split up, even if that presumably could come came with promotions for the gang. When the evaluator for the staff finally learns of this concern, he makes clear that the 4077th staff is considered too valuable in its current composition to break up.



** Even recurring characters such as Thomas Boone (first Commander Air Group- or CAG- aboard aircraft carrier ''Seahawk'', then a Rear Admiral) and Caitlin Pike (first Lt. JG, later a full Commander) get a promotion or three, albeit offscreen. Episode 200, in addition to promoting Petty Officer Jennifer Coates to Petty Officer 1st Class, even showed a what-if scenario where Cmdr. Alison Krennick, unseen since the first year outside of a flashback to a LostEpisode, was Rear Admiral and heading JAG.

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** Even recurring characters such as Thomas Boone (first Commander Air Group- Group -- or CAG- CAG -- aboard aircraft carrier ''Seahawk'', then a Rear Admiral) and Caitlin Pike (first Lt. JG, later a full Commander) get a promotion or three, albeit offscreen. Episode 200, in addition to promoting Petty Officer Jennifer Coates to Petty Officer 1st Class, even showed a what-if scenario where Cmdr. Alison Krennick, unseen since the first year outside of a flashback to a LostEpisode, was Rear Admiral and heading JAG.



* ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'' ranks the Powers according to the second-edition rules for gods (Demigod, Lesser, Intermediate and Greater). In ''On Hallowed Ground'', it is said that if a pantheon ends up with more than three or four powers reaching the Greater rank, this counter-intuitively suggests that the pantheon is on it's way out, having grown too old and too big to support itself. The Finnish and Sumerian pantheons are presented as examples of this. Of course, the Greeks and Torilians are also aversions.

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* ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'' ranks the Powers according to the second-edition rules for gods (Demigod, Lesser, Intermediate and Greater). In ''On Hallowed Ground'', it is said that if a pantheon ends up with more than three or four powers reaching the Greater rank, this counter-intuitively suggests that the pantheon is on it's its way out, having grown too old and too big to support itself. The Finnish and Sumerian pantheons are presented as examples of this. Of course, the Greeks and Torilians are also aversions.



* The US Military's "Up or out" policy is designed to avert this, though this wasn't always the case. In the past, promotions were less focused on forcing officers to progress their careers upward. A good example is Eisenhower who spent 16 years as a major before being promoted to lieutenant colonel. In practice this means forcing a good portion of personnel to retire as options are fewer the higher one goes. Below certain levels one is not even allowed to reach the 20 year mark to qualify for retirement benefits.\\\

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* The US Military's "Up or out" policy is designed to avert this, though this wasn't always the case. In the past, promotions were less focused on forcing officers to progress their careers upward. A good example is Eisenhower who spent 16 years as a major before being promoted to lieutenant colonel. In practice this means forcing a good portion of personnel to retire as options are fewer the higher one goes. Below certain levels one is not even allowed to reach the 20 year 20-year mark to qualify for retirement benefits.\\\



* Similar to the military "up or out" policy mentioned above, the [[UsefulNotes/BritishCoppers UK Metropolitan Police]] had a policy for most of the 20th century called "tenure" which was designed to avert this. It pretty much amounted to forcing plain clothes detectives who hadn't significantly improved their careers within a certain period (i.e., somebody who had been a Detective Sergeant for a decade or more without having advanced up to Inspector) to have to go back into uniform. The purpose of this was that it was supposed to stop them getting complacent, as well as allowing others within the department the opportunity to advance rank in their wake. It often had the opposite effect though, as many detectives were said to have chosen to resign rather than face the "indignity" of being put back into uniform. UsefulNotes/ScotlandYard officially abandoned the tenure scheme in the early 21st century.

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* Similar to the military "up or out" policy mentioned above, the [[UsefulNotes/BritishCoppers UK Metropolitan Police]] had a policy for most of the 20th century called "tenure" which was designed to avert this. It pretty much amounted to forcing plain clothes detectives who hadn't significantly improved their careers within a certain period (i.e., somebody who had been a Detective Sergeant for a decade or more without having advanced up to Inspector) to have to go back into uniform. The purpose of this was that it was supposed to stop them getting complacent, as well as allowing others within the department the opportunity to advance rank in their wake. It often had the opposite effect though, as many detectives were said to have chosen to resign rather than face the "indignity" of being put back into uniform. UsefulNotes/ScotlandYard officially abandoned the tenure scheme in the early 21st century.
26th Mar '18 7:54:04 AM StarSword
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* Averted in ''Series/{{Scrubs}}'', where all of the main characters have advanced and been promoted consistently throughout, except where certain characters are happy with their positions or are already at the top.

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* Averted in ''Series/{{Scrubs}}'', where all of the main characters have advanced and been promoted consistently throughout, except where certain characters are happy with their positions or are already at the top. It's discussed repeatedly how Dr. Cox's determination to be (or, less favourably, pretensions of being) TheLastDJ have outright stalled his career.



* At several points in ''Series/{{Scrubs}}'', it's discussed how Dr. Cox's determination to be (or, less favourably, pretensions of being) TheLastDJ have outright stalled his career
20th Mar '18 5:09:32 AM ImpudentInfidel
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* Averted on ''Series/{{Farscape}}'', of all places. Braca's first appearance is at the Peacekeeper rank of Lieutenant and serving as Crais's lackey (note that a Lieutenant in the Peacekeepers is equivalent to a Commander; the lower rank you'd expect it to refer to is simply called Officer). At first he remains at this rank once Scorpius takes over, but by season 4 he's been promoted to Captain, a rank he maintains through ''The Peacekeeper Wars''. In the continuation comics he ultimately attains the rank of Admiral.

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* Averted on ''Series/{{Farscape}}'', of all places. Braca's first appearance is at the Peacekeeper rank of Lieutenant[[note]]a Peacekeeper Lieutenant is roughly equivalent to a naval Commander; actual junior officers are literally called Officer[[/note]] and serving as Crais's lackey (note that a Lieutenant in the Peacekeepers is equivalent to a Commander; the lower rank you'd expect it to refer to is simply called Officer).lackey. At first he remains at this rank once Scorpius takes over, but by season 4 he's been promoted to Captain, a rank he maintains through ''The Peacekeeper Wars''. In the continuation comics he ultimately attains the rank of Admiral.
19th Mar '18 9:35:41 PM ImpudentInfidel
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* Averted on ''Series/{{Farscape}}'', of all places. Braca's first appearance is at the Peacekeeper rank of Lieutenant and serving as Crais's lackey. At first he remains at this rank once Scorpius takes over, but by season 4 he's been promoted to Captain, a rank he maintains through ''The Peacekeeper Wars''. In the continuation comics he ultimately attains the rank of Admiral.

to:

* Averted on ''Series/{{Farscape}}'', of all places. Braca's first appearance is at the Peacekeeper rank of Lieutenant and serving as Crais's lackey.lackey (note that a Lieutenant in the Peacekeepers is equivalent to a Commander; the lower rank you'd expect it to refer to is simply called Officer). At first he remains at this rank once Scorpius takes over, but by season 4 he's been promoted to Captain, a rank he maintains through ''The Peacekeeper Wars''. In the continuation comics he ultimately attains the rank of Admiral.
1st Mar '18 7:01:53 AM DoctorNemesis
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Added DiffLines:

* At several points in ''Series/{{Scrubs}}'', it's discussed how Dr. Cox's determination to be (or, less favourably, pretensions of being) TheLastDJ have outright stalled his career
14th Feb '18 12:32:05 AM DLMaximum1
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*** In "Best of Both Worlds" Riker was promoted to Captain. Count the pips on his collar, he's got four. Then in "Family", he's back to Commander again. [[FridgeLogic The only explanation]] is that he's somehow engineered a demotion for himself. Maybe he got Troi to say he was psychologically incapable of command or something. It'd explain why it took so long for him to get back to captain again. Why the writers felt the need to demote him is unclear; ''[[Film/StarTrekIVTheVoyageHome Star Trek IV]]'' shows that there's no rule against the ship's commanding officer and first officer both holding the rank of Captain (and the ''Enterprise''-A actually had ''three'' captains, due to Scotty's promotion to "Captain of Engineering" in ''[[Film/StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock Star Trek III]][[note]]The ending of ''Star Trek IV'' showed Scotty wearing a commander's rank badge again, anticipating his promotion being nullified, but as Kirk was the only one officially punished, the next three films and "Relics" confirmed he kept the promotion[[/note]]), and Picard would still have decades of seniority over Riker.

to:

*** In "Best "The Best of Both Worlds" Worlds", Riker was promoted to Captain. Count the pips on his collar, collar -- he's got four. Then in "Family", he's back to Commander again. [[FridgeLogic The only explanation]] is that he's somehow engineered a demotion for himself. Maybe he got Troi to say he was psychologically incapable of command or something. It'd explain why it took so long for him to get back to captain again. Why the writers felt the need to demote him is unclear; ''[[Film/StarTrekIVTheVoyageHome Star Trek IV]]'' shows that there's no rule against the ship's commanding officer and first officer both holding the rank of Captain (and the ''Enterprise''-A actually had ''three'' captains, due to Scotty's promotion to "Captain of Engineering" in ''[[Film/StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock Star Trek III]][[note]]The ending of ''Star Trek IV'' showed Scotty wearing a commander's rank badge again, anticipating his promotion being nullified, but as Kirk was the only one officially punished, the next three films and "Relics" confirmed he kept the promotion[[/note]]), and Picard would still have decades of seniority over Riker.



** Ditto for Data, who remained a Lieutenant Commander during the whole run of the series ''and'' the spin-off movies. Arguably, Data's career stalled out because he's an android, and the brass are unsure how he'd perform in a command role. Indeed, the few times he does, he does some pretty unorthodox things. In all seriousness, though, it's implied (sometimes even more than implied) that there's an [[FantasticRacism element of racism]] involved in Data's current rank. It was said prior to his posting on the Enterprise he spent years on a starbase being treated as a computer. This is most blatantly seen in the second half of the "Redemption" 2-parter where Data A) had to directly confront Picard in a rare display of ambition/pride in order to get a temporary command and B) upon receiving said command, encountered severe resistance on the part of his temporary XO, well beyond the point of insubordination into outright insolence. Thankfully, it would appear that Data learned from that experience and, upon temporarily commanding the Enterprise a few seasons later, tore his temporary First Officer ([[TheWorfEffect Worf]] in this case) a new one for similar actions. For a being with no emotions, he sure knows how to deliver an ass-chewing when it's justified.

to:

** Ditto for Data, who remained a Lieutenant Commander during the whole run of the series ''and'' the spin-off movies. Arguably, Data's career stalled out because he's an android, and the brass are unsure how he'd perform in a command role. Indeed, the few times he does, he does some pretty unorthodox things. In all seriousness, though, it's implied (sometimes even more than implied) that there's an [[FantasticRacism element of racism]] involved in Data's current rank. It was said prior to his posting on the Enterprise he spent years on a starbase being treated as a computer. This is most blatantly seen in the second half of the "Redemption" 2-parter two-parter where Data A) had to directly confront Picard in a rare display of ambition/pride in order to get a temporary command and B) upon receiving said command, encountered severe resistance on the part of his temporary XO, well beyond the point of insubordination into outright insolence. Thankfully, it would appear that Data learned from that experience and, upon temporarily commanding the Enterprise a few seasons later, tore his temporary First Officer ([[TheWorfEffect Worf]] in this case) a new one for similar actions. For a being with no emotions, he sure knows how to deliver an ass-chewing when it's justified.



--->'''Garrent Wang''' (Harry Kim): Despite his lack of promotion over seven years, Kim accumulated enough on-the-job experience to have been able to [[HypercompetentSidekick command his own starship]].
** Emphasising the point with Harry, his actual role was "Operations Officer", the same as Data from "The Next Generation" who was second in command of the ship. He even regularly took command of the night shift, something otherwise only done by the three most senior officers on the ship. Yet he remains the lowest ranked.

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--->'''Garrent --->'''Garrett Wang''' (Harry Kim): Despite his lack of promotion over seven years, Kim accumulated enough on-the-job experience to have been able to [[HypercompetentSidekick command his own starship]].
** Emphasising Emphasizing the point with Harry, his actual role was "Operations Officer", the same as Data from "The Next Generation" who was second in command of the ship. He even regularly took command of the night shift, something otherwise only done by the three most senior officers on the ship. Yet he remains the lowest ranked.
6th Dec '17 2:59:23 AM ImpudentInfidel
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*** His status is a bit... fuzzy. In early TNG, when the rank system was apparently based on law enforcement instead of naval systems and the lowest rank was Ensign, he was a Lieutenant. When they later decided to make him the token elisted man they never really bothered to change the habit and the total number of enlisted crew in that era can be counted on one hand. So he's technically an NCO, but somehow has junior officers reporting to him.

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*** His status is a bit... fuzzy. In early TNG, when the rank system was apparently based on law enforcement instead of naval systems and the lowest rank was Ensign, he was a Lieutenant. When they later decided to make him the token elisted man they never really bothered to change the habit and the total number of enlisted crew in that era can be counted on one hand. So he's technically an NCO, but somehow has junior officers reporting to him.
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