History Main / LawfulStupid

31st Jan '16 12:43:11 PM Euodiachloris
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* [[PrinciplesZealot Stannis Baratheon]] from ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' [[PlayingWithATrope plays hard-ball with this trope]]. He's [[BrutalHonesty blunt and honest]] to a fault; he's also so very [[{{Determinator}} stubborn]] That, if he ''can'' compromise, it'll ordinarily be done only so reluctantly, you can practically hear him creak... or, he'll quickly do a 180 to shock everybody. But, that last is only if you can show him that he's wrong in a way that follows his ethics and sound reasoning; upon, which he'll back you to the hilt. Yet, however much you might think all this would shoot him in the foot, he's proves that he's often got a point, which is correct in some way, and that he isn't blind as to the consequences. He wages a war of succession, tearing the kingdom apart to be king (he knows this going in; but also knows that being king means ''running the kingdom well'' -- a lesson others all-too-conveniently forget), even though he doesn't actually want to be the king. He's the rightful heir, so there no question in his mind: by law and duty, it has to be done. However, he has a very good grasp of other people's self-serving intentions and capabilities, so knows full well few follow him with any of the duties he cares about in mind: which generally serves to make him despise most of them, even while he'll acknowledge enemies who don't follow him, yet do follow their own principles and laws to the best of their abilities. All these quirks make most political players write him off as merely a predictable killjoy. Which can undo them, if they buy into it too much -- ''[[TheStrategist and he often plays to that]], both in the field and court''. By the fifth book, he's still insisting on fighting the War of the Five Kings long after everyone else has stopped caring about it, yet is also one of the very few to have noticed what is going on beyond the Wall. Fighting the Others is ''also'' his duty, as he sees it. Yeah, it's complicated.
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* [[PrinciplesZealot Stannis Baratheon]] from ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' [[PlayingWithATrope plays hard-ball with this trope]]. He's [[BrutalHonesty blunt and honest]] to a fault; he's also so very [[{{Determinator}} stubborn]] That, that, if he ''can'' compromise, it'll ordinarily be done only so reluctantly, you can practically hear him creak... or, he'll quickly do a 180 to shock everybody. But, that last is only if you can show him that he's wrong in a way that follows his ethics and using sound reasoning; upon, which he'll back you to the hilt.hilt, regardless of what he thinks of you, personally. Yet, however much you might think all this would shoot him in the foot, he's proves that he's often got a point, which is correct in some way, and that he isn't blind as to the consequences. He wages a war of succession, tearing the kingdom apart to be king (he knows this going in; but but, he also knows that being king means ''running the kingdom well'' -- a lesson others all-too-conveniently forget), forget)... even though he doesn't actually want to be the king. He's the rightful heir, so there no question in his mind: by law and duty, it has to be done. However, he has a very good grasp of other people's self-serving intentions and capabilities, so knows full well few follow him with any of the duties he cares about in mind: which generally serves to make him despise most of them, even while he'll acknowledge enemies who don't follow him, yet do follow their own principles and laws to the best of their abilities. All these quirks make most political players write him off as merely a predictable killjoy. Which can undo them, if they buy into it too much -- ''[[TheStrategist and he often plays to that]], both in the field and court''. By the fifth book, he's still insisting on fighting the War of the Five Kings long after everyone else has stopped caring about it, yet is also one of the very few to have noticed what is going on beyond the Wall. Fighting the Others is ''also'' his duty, as he sees it. Yeah, it's complicated.
31st Jan '16 12:22:18 PM Euodiachloris
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* [[PrinciplesZealot Stannis Baratheon]] from ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' [[PlayingWithATrope plays hard-ball with this trope]]. He's blunt and honest to a fault, he's stubborn and if he ''can'' compromise, it'll ordinarily be done so reluctantly, you can practically hear him creak... or, he'll quickly do a 180, but ''only'' if you can show him that he's wrong in a way that follows his rules, upon which he'll back you to the hilt. Yet, however much you might think all this would shoot him in the foot, he's proves that he's often got a point, is correct in some way and isn't blind as to the consequences. He wages a war of succession, tearing the kingdom apart to be king, even though he doesn't want to be king. He's the rightful heir, so there no question in his mind: by law, it has to be done. However, he has a very good grasp of people's intentions and capabilities, so knows full well few follow him with any of this in mind: which generally serves to make him despise most of them, even while he'll acknowledge enemies who don't follow him, yet do follow their own principles and laws. All these quirks make most political players write him off as merely a predictable killjoy. Which can undo them, if they buy into it too much -- ''and he often plays to that''. By the fifth book, he's still insisting on fighting the War of the Five Kings long after everyone else has stopped caring about it, yet is also one of the very few to have noticed what is going on beyond the Wall. Fighting the Others is ''also'' his duty, as he sees it. Yeah, it's complicated.
to:
* [[PrinciplesZealot Stannis Baratheon]] from ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' [[PlayingWithATrope plays hard-ball with this trope]]. He's [[BrutalHonesty blunt and honest honest]] to a fault, fault; he's stubborn and also so very [[{{Determinator}} stubborn]] That, if he ''can'' compromise, it'll ordinarily be done only so reluctantly, you can practically hear him creak... or, he'll quickly do a 180, but ''only'' 180 to shock everybody. But, that last is only if you can show him that he's wrong in a way that follows his rules, upon ethics and sound reasoning; upon, which he'll back you to the hilt. Yet, however much you might think all this would shoot him in the foot, he's proves that he's often got a point, which is correct in some way way, and that he isn't blind as to the consequences. He wages a war of succession, tearing the kingdom apart to be king, king (he knows this going in; but also knows that being king means ''running the kingdom well'' -- a lesson others all-too-conveniently forget), even though he doesn't actually want to be the king. He's the rightful heir, so there no question in his mind: by law, law and duty, it has to be done. However, he has a very good grasp of other people's self-serving intentions and capabilities, so knows full well few follow him with any of this the duties he cares about in mind: which generally serves to make him despise most of them, even while he'll acknowledge enemies who don't follow him, yet do follow their own principles and laws.laws to the best of their abilities. All these quirks make most political players write him off as merely a predictable killjoy. Which can undo them, if they buy into it too much -- ''and ''[[TheStrategist and he often plays to that''.that]], both in the field and court''. By the fifth book, he's still insisting on fighting the War of the Five Kings long after everyone else has stopped caring about it, yet is also one of the very few to have noticed what is going on beyond the Wall. Fighting the Others is ''also'' his duty, as he sees it. Yeah, it's complicated.
23rd Jan '16 9:46:44 AM Teakay
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** This is a negative stereotype commonly associated with Helm, God of Duty & Obedience, Patron Deity of Watchmen and Guardsmen. A tendency to fall into this has been a particularly common accusation of both Helm and his faithful ever since the Time of Troubles, when Helm's response to Mystra's attempt to force her way back into the Planes was to destroy her immediately, further damaging the already-strained power of magic and creating the hitherto unknown phenomena of Dead Magic Zones and Wild Magic Zones.
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** This is a negative stereotype commonly associated with Helm, God of Duty & Obedience, Patron Deity of Watchmen and Guardsmen. A tendency to fall into this has been a particularly common accusation of both Helm and his faithful ever since the Time of Troubles, when Helm's response to Mystra's attempt to force her way back into the Planes was to destroy her immediately, further damaging the already-strained power of magic and creating the hitherto unknown phenomena of Dead Magic Zones and Wild Magic Zones. It got even worse when some of his worshipers traveled to Maztica, the Realms Mexico-analogue, where they proceeded to act like conquistadors.
16th Jan '16 11:26:40 PM Heartlesswithaheart
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*** That said, Steiner does believe that Brahne would never do anything as drastic as start a war on the Burmecians despite the fact that that a cut conversation reveals that the king died because of them. Considering that he served Alexandria long enough to become captain of the Knights of Pluto (and thus knew Brahne long before she began to be mad with power), his denial makes sense up until the dying Burmecian soldier appears in Lindblum - shortly before he has his own doubts about the queen.
5th Jan '16 2:07:21 PM BlackSunNocturne
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* In the 3.5 ''[[TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons Players Handbook II]]'', we have the Knight class. In the attempt to make the archetypal KnightInShiningArmor, they instead managed to make "LawfulStupid: The Class". For example: Flanking an enemy will make you lose one of your Knight's Challenge (core ability of the class), and if your Knight’s Challenge ability is not available when you violate the code (for example, if you have exhausted your uses for the day), you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls and saves for the rest of that day. You also can't strike a flat-footed opponent. In fact, the class is written in such a strange way that several players have written guides and fixes to ''stop'' the Knight from being the epitome of LawfulStupid.
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* In the 3.5 ''[[TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons Players Handbook II]]'', we have the Knight class. In the attempt to make the archetypal KnightInShiningArmor, they instead managed to make "LawfulStupid: The Class". For example: Flanking an enemy will make you lose one of your Knight's Challenge (core ability of the class), and if your Knight’s Challenge ability is not available when when you violate the code (for example, if you have exhausted your uses for the day), you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls and saves for the rest of that day. You also can't strike a flat-footed opponent. In fact, the class is written in such a strange way that several players have written guides and fixes to ''stop'' the Knight from being the epitome of LawfulStupid.
5th Jan '16 2:06:12 PM BlackSunNocturne
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In [[TabletopGames tabletop roleplaying games]], it's such a common behavior for paladins that it seems [[{{Flanderization}} this is what everyone]] ''[[{{Flanderization}} expects]]'' [[{{Flanderization}} paladins to do these days]]. In fact, it's ''so'' common that the ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' {{Sourcebook}} ''Book of Exalted Deeds'' spends a good number of pages explaining how to be LawfulNeutral or LawfulGood ''without'' being a dimwit. ''[[WriterRevolt The creators themselves]]'' [[WriterRevolt got sick of it]].
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In [[TabletopGames tabletop roleplaying games]], it's such a common behavior for paladins that it seems [[{{Flanderization}} this is what everyone]] ''[[{{Flanderization}} expects]]'' [[{{Flanderization}} paladins to do these days]]. In fact, it's ''so'' common that the ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' {{Sourcebook}} ''Book of Exalted Deeds'' spends a good number of pages explaining how to be LawfulNeutral or LawfulGood ''without'' being a dimwit. ''[[WriterRevolt The creators themselves]]'' [[WriterRevolt got sick of it]]. it]].[[note]]However, they kind of failed, as the ''Book of Exalted Deeds'' is derisively referred to by players as "Book of [[StupidGood Sutpidly]] [[DumbIsGood Dumb Good]]'' because of how they handle Good and Evil in said book[[/note]]

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* In [[TabletopGames tabletop roleplaying games]], it's such a common behavior the 3.5 ''[[TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons Players Handbook II]]'', we have the Knight class. In the attempt to make the archetypal KnightInShiningArmor, they instead managed to make "LawfulStupid: The Class". For example: Flanking an enemy will make you lose one of your Knight's Challenge (core ability of the class), and if your Knight’s Challenge ability is not available when you violate the code (for example, if you have exhausted your uses for paladins the day), you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls and saves for the rest of that it seems [[{{Flanderization}} this is what everyone]] ''[[{{Flanderization}} expects]]'' [[{{Flanderization}} paladins to do these days]]. day. You also can't strike a flat-footed opponent. In fact, it's ''so'' common the class is written in such a strange way that several players have written guides and fixes to ''stop'' the ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' {{Sourcebook}} ''Book of Exalted Deeds'' spends a good number of pages explaining how to be LawfulNeutral or LawfulGood ''without'' Knight from being a dimwit. ''[[WriterRevolt The creators themselves]]'' [[WriterRevolt got sick the epitome of it]]. LawfulStupid.
29th Dec '15 5:08:04 AM LadyJaneGrey
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* In ''Film/FlightOfTheNavigator'', the staff of the NASA facility decide to keep David virtually imprisoned indefinitely without regard for the consequences when they realize how much alien data is contained in David's brain; one scientist even laments how they may have lost "one of the greatest scientific discoveries of the 20th Century", not considering what they'll have to say to the press, the legalities involved in having violated the terms of their agreement with David's parents, and most importantly, tearing David's family apart. All this forces David to take the far more dangerous risk that Max had to avoid, which started the mess to begin with, in order to SetRightWhatOnceWentWrong.
26th Dec '15 8:39:37 PM TheSinful
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* In ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11021904/1/White White]]'', after [[spoiler:Soifon is hollowified]] while spying on Ichigo and Aizen, Yamamoto is outright told that her only chance for survival is [[spoiler:to become a Vizored]]. Yamamoto declares that while he may have [[spoiler:pardoned the Vizored, he refuses to intentionally create one]] as it's against the law and instead decides to execute her instead. [[spoiler:Luckily, Soifon manages to instinctively activate Negacion and escape to Hueco Mundo where she becomes an Arrancar]].
19th Dec '15 5:36:37 PM nombretomado
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** ''Not'' the first time SHIELD had done something idiotic like this. In the ''She-Hulk'' graphic novel, they used their authority to ''kidnap'' SheHulk in order to subject her to experiments to make sure she wasn't as dangerous as the Hulk. (Nick Fury objected, but he wasn't in charge at that point.) End result? An incompetent officer took control of the project, a mutant swarm of cockroaches hijacked control of the Helicarrier (this was the original one) the Helicarrier was destroyed, and they barely avoided a nuclear disaster due to the crash causing its reactor to become unstable. (She-Hulk would have left them to their fates, but there was a town with innocent civilians that would have been destroyed too, so they were able to convince her to fix the problem. Still, they didn't learn...)
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** ''Not'' the first time SHIELD had done something idiotic like this. In the ''She-Hulk'' graphic novel, they used their authority to ''kidnap'' SheHulk ComicBook/SheHulk in order to subject her to experiments to make sure she wasn't as dangerous as the Hulk. (Nick Fury objected, but he wasn't in charge at that point.) End result? An incompetent officer took control of the project, a mutant swarm of cockroaches hijacked control of the Helicarrier (this was the original one) the Helicarrier was destroyed, and they barely avoided a nuclear disaster due to the crash causing its reactor to become unstable. (She-Hulk would have left them to their fates, but there was a town with innocent civilians that would have been destroyed too, so they were able to convince her to fix the problem. Still, they didn't learn...)
17th Dec '15 12:08:45 PM FF32
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* One might charitably describe the SCPFoundation as this, if not downright LawfulEvil; their treatment of the Class-D personnel (basically a collection of [[TheDirtyDozen Dirty Dozened]] death row inmates) borders on sociopathic, particularly when you learn about Protocol 12, which allows the definition of Class D to be expanded to political prisoners and refugees in times of "duress". Their casefiles often redact virtually nothing except information that would actually benefit the reader, such as where those indestructible supernatural abominations they failed to contain are actually located. They doubtless would argue that they [[IDidWhatIHadToDo did what had to be done]], but that would be easier to believe without the constant containment breaches.
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* One might charitably describe the SCPFoundation Wiki/SCPFoundation as this, if not downright LawfulEvil; their treatment of the Class-D personnel (basically a collection of [[TheDirtyDozen Dirty Dozened]] death row inmates) borders on sociopathic, particularly when you learn about Protocol 12, which allows the definition of Class D to be expanded to political prisoners and refugees in times of "duress". Their casefiles often redact virtually nothing except information that would actually benefit the reader, such as where those indestructible supernatural abominations they failed to contain are actually located. They doubtless would argue that they [[IDidWhatIHadToDo did what had to be done]], but that would be easier to believe without the constant containment breaches.
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