History Main / LastDiscMagic

10th Dec '17 4:35:24 PM Vir
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* And finally, ''VideoGame/{{Persona 2}}'' offers the fusion spell Armageddon, which you can only cast if you have two party members using Satan and Lucifer. Satan and Lucifer are very high level personae (Lucifer is level 99) in a game where there aren't really any enemies past level 70. Obviously, a lot of LevelGrinding is required to get them. But Armageddon will instantly kill any enemy including the final boss - both forms. The only exception is the BonusBoss, who can counter it and instantly kill you.
* In ''VideoGame/{{MOTHER 3}}'' Kumatora learns PK ground at level 60. It hits the enemy for 5% of it's maximum hp five times. That's 25% of the enemy's hp, it can't be blocked by shields, and bosses aren't immune to it. The only downside to it is that unless you do a ton of grinding, you'll only get to use it on the second to last boss since you can't use Kumatora against the final boss. Additionally, Kumatora and Lucas learn PK Starstorm and PK Love Omega at the very end of Chapter 7, respectively. These are the two strongest PSI attacks in the game, but there's not much left of the game by the time you obtain them.

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* And finally, ''VideoGame/{{Persona 2}}'' ''VideoGame/Persona2'' offers the fusion spell Armageddon, which you can only cast if you have two party members using Satan and Lucifer. Satan and Lucifer are very high level personae (Lucifer is level 99) in a game where there aren't really any enemies past level 70. Obviously, a lot of LevelGrinding is required to get them. But Armageddon will instantly kill any enemy including the final boss - both forms. The only exception is the BonusBoss, who can counter it and instantly kill you.
* In ''VideoGame/{{MOTHER 3}}'' ''VideoGame/MOTHER3'' Kumatora learns PK ground Ground at level 60. It hits the enemy for 5% of it's its maximum hp HP five times. That's 25% of the enemy's hp, HP, it can't be blocked by shields, and bosses aren't immune to it. The only downside to it is that unless you do a ton of grinding, you'll only get to use it on the second to last boss since you can't use Kumatora against the final boss. Additionally, Kumatora and Lucas learn PK Starstorm and PK Love Omega at the very end of Chapter 7, respectively. These are the two strongest PSI attacks in the game, but there's not much left of the game by the time you obtain them.



* In ''Videogame/EarthBound'', Poo is taught PK Starstorm Omega right before the final dungeon. Chances are, you're not actually gonna use it.
* Every final Bros Attack in the ''Videogame/MarioAndLuigi'' series is this. For instance, in ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiDreamTeam'', you eventually get the Zee Egg and Star Rocket attacks (via finding all Pi'illos and collecting attack pieces in the final dungeon respectively). These attacks are incredibly easy to line up for maximum damage, do about four times the damage anything else does and are incredibly cool looking to boot. Both are pretty well needed given that your older bros attacks lose a lot of effectiveness by that point.

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* In ''Videogame/EarthBound'', ''VideoGame/EarthBound'', Poo is taught PK Starstorm Omega right before the final dungeon. Chances are, you're not actually gonna use it.
* Every final Bros Attack in the ''Videogame/MarioAndLuigi'' ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi'' series is this. For instance, in ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiDreamTeam'', you eventually get the Zee Egg and Star Rocket attacks (via finding all Pi'illos and collecting attack pieces in the final dungeon respectively). These attacks are incredibly easy to line up for maximum damage, do about four times the damage anything else does and are incredibly cool looking to boot. Both are pretty well needed given that your older bros attacks lose a lot of effectiveness by that point.



* ''{{Fire Emblem}}'''s commonly powerful magic which can be obtained near, or in, the Endgame - [[spoiler:Athos comes with Forblaze]] in ''Fire Emblem 7'', it's possible to steal the ultimate Light spell (although only Rhys can use it) during ''Fire Emblem 9''; in addition to getting the assorted other ultimate magic in the chapters just before the Endgame. In ''Radiant Dawn'', you get the ultimate magic forced into your hands during Part Four and [[spoiler:on the second playthrough, you can get two characters who can use the ultimate Dark magic, one of whom comes with the ultimate staff in the game - but this is only during the final section of endgame, so he's not as useful as he could have been.]]

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* ''{{Fire Emblem}}'''s ''Franchise/FireEmblem'''s commonly powerful magic which can be obtained near, or in, the Endgame - [[spoiler:Athos comes with Forblaze]] in ''Fire Emblem 7'', it's possible to steal the ultimate Light spell (although only Rhys can use it) during ''Fire Emblem 9''; in addition to getting the assorted other ultimate magic in the chapters just before the Endgame.endgame. In ''Radiant Dawn'', you get the ultimate magic forced into your hands during Part Four and [[spoiler:on the second playthrough, you can get two characters who can use the ultimate Dark magic, one of whom comes with the ultimate staff in the game - but this is only during the final section of endgame, so he's not as useful as he could have been.]]



** The ''Radiant Dawn'' variants are deceptive though- while all five are given to you for free (Rexflame (Fire), Rexbolt (Thunder), and Rexcaliber (Wind) are given to you in pre-battle talks, Rexaura (Light) and Balberith (Dark) are dropped by Bosses- all 5 of them require SS weapon skill, which is a royal pain in the arse to get to with the {{SquishyWizard}}s who use the tomes and unless you're a hardcore magic user it's likely the characters who can use the tomes won't have reached this level until the Endgame. This is compensate for by the ability to buy a large amount of Arms Scrolls.

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** The ''Radiant Dawn'' variants are deceptive though- while all five are given to you for free (Rexflame (Fire), Rexbolt (Thunder), and Rexcaliber (Wind) are given to you in pre-battle talks, Rexaura (Light) and Balberith (Dark) are dropped by Bosses- all 5 of them require SS weapon skill, which is a royal pain in the arse to get to with the {{SquishyWizard}}s {{Squishy Wizard}}s who use the tomes and unless you're a hardcore magic user it's likely the characters who can use the tomes won't have reached this level until the Endgame. This is compensate for by the ability to buy a large amount of Arms Scrolls.
1st Nov '17 1:51:47 PM Malady
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** Starting with ''[=FireRed=] and [=LeafGreen=]'', there's a move tutor that will teach Water, Grass, or Fire-typed versions of Hyper Beam, but only to the fully-evolved version of your starter {{Mon}}. The last move a Pokémon learns through level-up generally also falls under this, as the level needed to learn it often isn't reached until you're facing the final Gym Leader or the Elite Four, and these moves are often very powerful.
** In Gen IV, those moves aren't just restricted to only the starters from that game, either: any starter trio can learn them. The happiness level for those Pokémon also had to be maxed out. Similarly, in Gen IV, a special move tutor will teach any Dragon-type Pokémon with max happiness (fully evolved or not), including Arceus with a Dragon Plate, a special Dragon-type variation of Overheat in ''[[VideoGame/PokemonDiamondAndPearl Diamond and Pearl]]''.

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** Starting with ''[=FireRed=] and [=LeafGreen=]'', there's a move tutor that will teach Water, Grass, or Fire-typed versions of Hyper Beam, but only to the fully-evolved version of your starter {{Mon}}. The last move a Pokémon learns through level-up generally also falls under this, as the level needed to learn it often isn't reached until you're facing the final Gym Leader or the Elite Four, and these moves are often very powerful.
** In Gen IV, those moves aren't just restricted to only the starters from that game, either: any starter trio can learn them. The happiness level for those Pokémon also had to be maxed out. Similarly, in Gen IV, a special move tutor will teach any Dragon-type Pokémon with max happiness (fully evolved or not), including Arceus with a Dragon Plate, a special Dragon-type variation of Overheat in ''[[VideoGame/PokemonDiamondAndPearl Diamond and Pearl]]''.



** After defeating or catching Kyogre/Groudon in ''[[VideoGame/PokemonRubyAndSapphire Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire]]'', the number of Pokémon availiable to catch ''explodes'', in particular [[OlympusMons Legendary Pokémon]], of which ''every one'' in the series (excluding Mythical Pokémon and the Legendaries found in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY'') can be caught. The kicker? This happens ''before'' the eighth Gym, meaning there's nothing stopping you from assembling a team of legendaries and [[GameBreaker shattering the rest of the game into pieces]].
* Arcana in ''VideoGame/TheLastRemnant'' is orders of magnitude more powerful than any other type of magic, and hits every enemy of the battlefield. It is possible to unlock weaker arcana by accident, but unlocking the most powerful aracana requires a lot of training; you first need a character with the rarest type of mystic arts, then you need to train those arts extensively. You then need to place the character in a union with multiple other magic users, and fight until the chance arrives to have all of them use mystic arts at the same time. Time-consuming, but worth it when you destroy an army of over 30 units with a single devastating spell.

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** After defeating or catching Kyogre/Groudon in ''[[VideoGame/PokemonRubyAndSapphire Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire]]'', the number of Pokémon availiable to catch ''explodes'', in particular [[OlympusMons Legendary Pokémon]], of which ''every one'' in the series (excluding Mythical Pokémon and the Legendaries found in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY'') can be caught. The kicker? This happens ''before'' the eighth Gym, meaning there's nothing stopping you from assembling a team of legendaries and [[GameBreaker shattering the rest of the game into pieces]].
* Arcana in ''VideoGame/TheLastRemnant'' is orders of magnitude more powerful than any other type of magic, and hits every enemy of the battlefield. It is possible to unlock weaker arcana by accident, but unlocking the most powerful aracana requires a lot of training; you first need a character with the rarest type of mystic arts, then you need to train those arts extensively. You then need to place the character in a union with multiple other magic users, and fight until the chance arrives to have all of them use mystic arts at the same time. Time-consuming, but worth it when you destroy an army of over 30 units with a single devastating spell.



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28th Aug '17 12:06:47 PM TempTraditionalHam
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**** Interestingly, Holy is actually the single strongest spell available to the player (outside of [[LimitBreak Overdrives]]) in terms of sheer base damage, hitting even harder than Ultima, but since it is single-target only and a rare few enemies are capable of absorbing it due to its Holy element, Ultima has a bit more utility making Holy a very slight example of AwesomeButImpractical.
29th Apr '17 7:26:10 PM AtmosBlitzer
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After all the tweaking of weapons, stats and armor, magic almost never hits as quickly, consistently, or powerfully as it would if you just run up and hit something with your basic attack. Although healing spells are always useful, SummonMagic tends to be the only offensive magic that'll hit a bunch of enemies for great damage late in the game. This is usually because, while physical attacks improve substantially with new equipment, only gaining new spells will make magic function better. This is especially true for status-affecting spells, which the enemies in the last quarter of the game or so are almost always immune against.

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After all the tweaking of weapons, stats and armor, magic almost never hits as quickly, consistently, or powerfully as it would if you just run up and hit something with your basic attack. Although healing spells are always useful, SummonMagic tends to be the only offensive magic that'll hit a bunch of enemies for great damage late in the game. This is usually because, while physical attacks improve substantially with new equipment, only gaining new spells will make magic function better. This is especially true for status-affecting spells, which the enemies in the last quarter of the game or so [[UselessUsefulSpell are almost always immune against.
against]].
2nd Apr '17 2:15:31 PM nombretomado
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* ''{{Persona 3}}'' has Messiah, the ultimate form of the Judgement Arcana, and one of the last Personae you get. It's about as strong as you'd expect.
** ''Persona 3'' also has the "severe damage" forms of the elemental spells, only available from high-level personae that mostly require you to finish a social link to unlock. All except the fire spell are single-target only, but by that point you should have the [[{{Mana}} SP]] to spend quite comfortably.
* ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}: Golden'' gives last disc magic to your entire party. If you max out their Social Links, you can visit them after [[spoiler:defeating Adachi]] to unlock their Tier 3 Persona. This unlocks a unique, character specific skill for each party member. Chie gets a party-wide Heat Riser, Naoto can null all damage for a turn, Yukiko gets the most powerful fire spell in the game, and even Rise gets new support skills.
** Last Disc Magic is enforced in ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'' with the final few bosses, particularly on NewGamePlus. Most of the final bosses and minibosses have such ridiculous reserves of health that to even dent them you can't use any spell below -dyne grade. Also with skills like Spell Master and gear like the Chakra Robe (both halve the SP cost for all magic skills) and Rudra Robe (the same for physical skills) make it very easy and viable to merely spam spells like Megidolaon (the 'you all now die' button, but can cost up to a quarter of your SP if you are low-levelled) and Agneyastra.

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* ''{{Persona 3}}'' has ''VideoGame/Persona3'':
**
Messiah, the ultimate form of the Judgement Arcana, and one of the last Personae you get. It's about as strong as you'd expect.
** ''Persona 3'' also has the The "severe damage" forms of the elemental spells, only available from high-level personae that mostly require you to finish a social link to unlock. All except the fire spell are single-target only, but by that point you should have the [[{{Mana}} SP]] to spend quite comfortably.
* ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}: Golden'' gives last ''VideoGame/Persona4: Golden'':
** Last
disc magic is givne to your entire party. If you max out their Social Links, you can visit them after [[spoiler:defeating Adachi]] to unlock their Tier 3 Persona. This unlocks a unique, character specific skill for each party member. Chie gets a party-wide Heat Riser, Naoto can null all damage for a turn, Yukiko gets the most powerful fire spell in the game, and even Rise gets new support skills.
** Last Disc Magic is enforced in ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'' Enforced with the final few bosses, particularly on NewGamePlus. Most of the final bosses and minibosses have such ridiculous reserves of health that to even dent them you can't use any spell below -dyne grade. Also with skills like Spell Master and gear like the Chakra Robe (both halve the SP cost for all magic skills) and Rudra Robe (the same for physical skills) make it very easy and viable to merely spam spells like Megidolaon (the 'you all now die' button, but can cost up to a quarter of your SP if you are low-levelled) and Agneyastra.
8th Dec '16 3:23:51 PM DastardlyDemolition
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** Inverted by Destruction magic. Damage from Destruction spells doesn't scale with level, meaning that beyond a certain point it CantCatchUp to archery or swordplay. In addition, the Master level spells take up both hands and have an insanely long casting time during which the caster can easily be interrupted by taking a hit, so even dedicated mages will use lower-level spells as their bread and butter.
** Played straight, on the other hand, with Shouts. Completing the main quest gives the player several powerful Shouts, such as the ability to conjure a thunderstorm which strikes everything in a wide radius with lightning or summon a dragon or powerful ghost hero to fight for you.

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** Inverted by Destruction magic. Damage from Destruction spells doesn't scale with level, meaning they only have damage bonuses from existing or applied weaknesses and there are only perks that make them do 25% or 50% more damage or cheaper and using both hands to cast only does a set bonus. This means that beyond a certain point it CantCatchUp to archery or swordplay. In addition, the Master level spells take up both hands and have an insanely long casting time during which the caster can easily be interrupted by taking a hit, so even dedicated mages will use lower-level spells as their bread and butter.
** Played straight, on the other hand, with Shouts. Completing the main quest gives the player several powerful Shouts, such as the ability to conjure a thunderstorm which strikes everything in a wide radius with lightning or summon a dragon or powerful ghost hero to fight for you. Now it doesn't mean that all these Shouts are "good", it just means they're more powerful. The shout that lets you conjure lighting storm doesn't let you ''choose'' [[AwesomeButImpractical what it strikes]].
30th Oct '16 7:50:13 AM thatother1dude
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* Averted in the ''Franchise/{{Disgaea}}'' series of tactical [=RPGs=], where magic not only scales well with physical attacks, but has massive range and convenient areas of effect, to the extent that extremely high-level parties need never walk more than a few squares away from their starting location to kill everything on the map. Additionally, spells improved in power and range when used frequently, so even the starting spells are useful late in the game.
** In stark contrast to the previous Nippon Ichi game, ''LaPucelle'', which may be the most fighter-centric SRPG ever. The fighters could regenerate their own HP if their HP stat was ground high enough and had special abilities that let them hit large groups of enemies. And the later storyline [=PCs=] didn't get LeakedExperience, so it became a matter of everyone buffs the main character and gets the hell out of her way while she clears the board (they were also good decoys!).
* ''VideoGame/{{Vandal Hearts}}'' averts the trope in that magic-users are just as powerful offensively as melee as long as they're the same level and using the latest powers - in fact, as a lot of later magic spells have {{Area of Effect}}, they can be more powerful than the single-target melee users and consequently level faster. However, played straight in that new spells are only given at certain level waypoints and spells don't scale to the user - so if you're just below the level to get the 7-square-radius [[GameBreaker Phase Shift]], you'll be doing the damage of someone several levels below you whilst melee troops will hit exactly according to their level. This also means that as you get a more powerful (or beneficial) spell, the old ones are never used again - after all, why spend 3mp (out of 40+) on a single target heal for 30hp, when you can heal them and everyone within two spaces of them for 100+hp each for 5mp?
25th Oct '16 11:50:18 AM Ridureyu
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** ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyV'' avoids this to some extent. One of the classes, Mystic Knight, has an ability called Spellblade that infuses the user's weapon with a black magic spell (as long as you've bought it), meaning that it's much easier to hit enemies with spells.

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** ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyV'' makes the search for Holy, Flare, Meteor, and Bahamut Summon spells into part of the endgame plot, firmly tauting them as the end-all be-all spells of their respectie magic types. That said, it avoids this to some extent. One extent, as one of the classes, Mystic Knight, has an ability called Spellblade that infuses the user's weapon with a black magic spell (as long as you've bought it), meaning that it's much easier to hit enemies with spells.
6th Jul '16 1:07:38 PM SpinAttaxx
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* In the ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' games starting with ''[=FireRed=] and [=LeafGreen=]'', there's a move tutor that will teach Water, Grass, or Fire-typed versions of Hyper Beam, but only to the fully-evolved version of your starter {{Mon}}. The last move a Pokémon learns through level-up generally also falls under this, as the level needed to learn it often isn't reached until you're facing the final Gym Leader or the Elite Four, and these moves are often very powerful.

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* In the ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' games starting ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'':
** Starting
with ''[=FireRed=] and [=LeafGreen=]'', there's a move tutor that will teach Water, Grass, or Fire-typed versions of Hyper Beam, but only to the fully-evolved version of your starter {{Mon}}. The last move a Pokémon learns through level-up generally also falls under this, as the level needed to learn it often isn't reached until you're facing the final Gym Leader or the Elite Four, and these moves are often very powerful.


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** After defeating or catching Kyogre/Groudon in ''[[VideoGame/PokemonRubyAndSapphire Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire]]'', the number of Pokémon availiable to catch ''explodes'', in particular [[OlympusMons Legendary Pokémon]], of which ''every one'' in the series (excluding Mythical Pokémon and the Legendaries found in ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY'') can be caught. The kicker? This happens ''before'' the eighth Gym, meaning there's nothing stopping you from assembling a team of legendaries and [[GameBreaker shattering the rest of the game into pieces]].
4th Jun '16 4:30:03 PM nombretomado
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* ''VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia'' gave every character (including certain bosses) "Hi-Ougis" or "secret techniques" that could only be accessed towards the end of the game. Well, everybody in the [[NoExportForYou Japan only]] PS2 version at least. Only Lloyd, Collette and Genis have them in the base game.

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* ''VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia'' gave every character (including certain bosses) "Hi-Ougis" or "secret techniques" that could only be accessed towards the end of the game. Well, everybody in the [[NoExportForYou Japan only]] PS2 [=PS2=] version at least. Only Lloyd, Collette and Genis have them in the base game.
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