History Main / InterServiceRivalry

30th Jan '16 11:41:25 AM Morgenthaler
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* In TabeltopGame/GURPSReignOfSteel, the WASP agency and FBI of the Washington Protectorate have this trope going on. In the Machine Zones, some of the human resistance groups have been divided by internal rivalries, as well.
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* In TabeltopGame/GURPSReignOfSteel, ''TabletopGame/GURPSReignOfSteel'', the WASP agency and FBI of the Washington Protectorate have this trope going on. In the Machine Zones, some of the human resistance groups have been divided by internal rivalries, as well.
30th Jan '16 11:37:13 AM Morgenthaler
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* In GURPSReignOfSteel, the WASP agency and FBI of the Washington Protectorate have this trope going on. In the Machine Zones, some of the human resistance groups have been divided by internal rivalries, as well.
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* In GURPSReignOfSteel, TabeltopGame/GURPSReignOfSteel, the WASP agency and FBI of the Washington Protectorate have this trope going on. In the Machine Zones, some of the human resistance groups have been divided by internal rivalries, as well.
12th Jan '16 12:55:02 PM Kadorhal
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* Done deliberately by Stalin to Field Marshalls Kon(i)ev and Zhukov for the push on Berlin (Rokossovksy, despite his comparable if not greater abilities, being relegated to flank-defence along the German coast because he was both Ukrainian and 'ideologically unorthodox'). He deliberately erased the boundaries between their army groups for the operation, meaning that both were free to send units into and across each other's forces. This resulted in more friendly-fire incidents than anyone cares to remember, not least because of the use of artillery and airpower. ** That said, at least a few of those 'incidents' were actually ''on purpose'' (albeit largely as payback for previous friendly-fire incidents)!
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* Done deliberately by Stalin to Field Marshalls Kon(i)ev and Zhukov for the push on Berlin (Rokossovksy, despite his comparable if not greater abilities, being relegated to flank-defence along the German coast because he was both Ukrainian and 'ideologically unorthodox'). He deliberately erased the boundaries between their army groups for the operation, meaning that both were free to send units into and across each other's forces. This resulted in more friendly-fire incidents than anyone cares to remember, not least because of the use of artillery and airpower. \n** That said, at least a few of those 'incidents' were actually ''on purpose'' (albeit largely as payback for previous friendly-fire incidents)!incidents).

*** In the VietnamWar, there were four or ''five'' air forces depending on how you counted them: Tactical Air Command (USAF), Strategic Air Command (USAF), Army aviation (US Army), NAVAIR (US Navy including the Marines) and the South Vietnamese Air Force. Needless to say, planning was horrid at times since these combat commands had different chains of command. *** Congress actually passed a law, the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldwater-Nichols_Act 1986 Goldwater-Nichols Act]], that among other things removed the individual service chiefs from the chain of command and made them solely an advisory body to the President (the Joint Chiefs of Staff), and reorganized the military's entire chain of command through joint Unified Combatant Commands without regards to branches of service. This was in response to cock-ups like the hostage rescue mission and other service rivalry problems in [[UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar Vietnam]]. As a result, while interservice rivalry is still a big thing in the US military (see below), it rarely interferes in the actual business of defending US interests.
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*** In the VietnamWar, UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar, there were four or ''five'' air forces depending on how you counted them: Tactical Air Command (USAF), Strategic Air Command (USAF), Army aviation (US Army), NAVAIR (US Navy including the Marines) and the South Vietnamese Air Force. Needless to say, planning was horrid at times since these combat commands had different chains of command. *** command. Congress actually passed a law, the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldwater-Nichols_Act 1986 Goldwater-Nichols Act]], that among other things removed the individual service chiefs from the chain of command and made them solely an advisory body to the President (the Joint Chiefs of Staff), and reorganized the military's entire chain of command through joint Unified Combatant Commands without regards to branches of service. This was in response to cock-ups like the hostage rescue mission and other service rivalry problems in [[UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar Vietnam]].Vietnam. As a result, while interservice rivalry is still a big thing in the US military (see below), it rarely interferes in the actual business of defending US interests.

** Military personnel love to make mocking nicknames and acronyms for the various branches.
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** Military personnel love to make mocking nicknames and acronyms for the various branches.branches:

*** The Air Force is often called the Chair Force, since any fighting you do while sitting down doesn't count unless you're in a tank or other land vehicle, apparently. And also because a relatively larger portion of the Air Force is dedicated to logistics rather than directly fighting, though this is quite applicable to the Navy as well. It's also teased that the Air Force is for wussies as they have less strict fitness requirements and a perception that Air Force bases are more luxurious than their Army counterparts, many USAF Personnel point out that while this may sometimes be true it just means that Air Force enlistees are simply ''smarter'' for choosing this route anyway. Also note that the "Chairforce" nickname has been used within the Air Force itself... to refer to pilots of [=UAVs=].
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*** The Air Force is often called the Chair Force, since any fighting you do while sitting down doesn't count unless you're in a tank or other land vehicle, apparently. And also because a relatively larger portion of the Air Force is dedicated to logistics rather than directly fighting, though this is quite applicable to the Navy as well. It's also teased that the Air Force is for wussies as they have less strict fitness requirements and a perception that Air Force bases are more luxurious than their Army counterparts, counterparts; many USAF Personnel point out that while this may sometimes be true true, it just means that Air Force enlistees are simply ''smarter'' for choosing this route anyway. Also note that the "Chairforce" nickname has been used within the Air Force itself... to refer to pilots of [=UAVs=].

*** Submariners are called Bubbleheads and have the reputation of being extremely nerdy, since the majority of them are trained in nuclear power. The thought of over a hundred men[[note]]And ''only'' men, as women were forbidden from becoming submariners until April 2010 and because of training time did not start joining submarine crews for a year and a half afterwards.[[/note]] trapped in a long, rounded steel tube underwater also takes the [[HelloSailor gay sailor]] jokes UpToEleven.
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*** Submariners are called Bubbleheads and have the reputation of being extremely nerdy, since the majority of them are trained in nuclear power. The thought of over a hundred men[[note]]And ''only'' men, as women were forbidden from becoming submariners until April 2010 2010, and because of training time did not start joining submarine crews for a year and a half afterwards.[[/note]] trapped in a long, rounded steel tube underwater also takes the [[HelloSailor gay sailor]] jokes UpToEleven.

** Don't forget the rivalry between the Squids (Navy) and Puddle Pirates (Coast Guard) The Navy loves to put down the Coast Guard, calling them them things like "toy Navy" or "shallow Navy" to which any Coastie worth his salt will respond with a joke along the lines of, "Why do Navy kids look so good? They have Coastie dads" implying that Coasties tend to sleep with Navy wives while their husbands are out to sea.
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** Don't forget the rivalry between the Squids (Navy) and Puddle Pirates (Coast Guard) The Navy loves to put down the Coast Guard, calling them them things like "toy Navy" or "shallow Navy" Navy", to which any Coastie worth his salt will respond with a joke along the lines of, "Why do Navy kids look so good? They have Coastie dads" implying that Coasties tend to sleep with Navy wives while their husbands are out to sea.

** This worked out well enough, as the result was the F-16. Ironically, the Navy then went on to adopt an enlarged version of the losing design in the Air Force's lightweight fighter competition as their own F/A-18. In part because the Navy prefers twin-engine designs but also because no way in hell were they going to use the Air Force's choice.
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** This worked out well enough, as the result was the F-16. Ironically, the Navy then went on to adopt an enlarged version of the losing design in the Air Force's lightweight fighter competition as their own F/A-18. In part because the Navy prefers twin-engine designs designs, but also because no way in hell were they going to use the Air Force's choice.

** And of course any Highland regiment hates (in order from least to most) any OTHER Highland regiment, any Lowland regiment, any Irish regiment, any Welsh Regiment and EVERY American unit. Of course, they will team up with less objectionable enemies to beat more hated ones.
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** And of course any Highland regiment hates (in order from least to most) any OTHER ''other'' Highland regiment, any Lowland regiment, any Irish regiment, any Welsh Regiment and EVERY every American unit. Of course, they will team up with less objectionable enemies to beat more hated ones.

* In Saddam Hussein's Iraq, after his rise to power, had the typical triangular operation -- the military, the Baath Party, and the people. If one branch got too uppity, he would instigate the other two against the one.
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* In Saddam Hussein's Iraq, after his rise to power, had the typical triangular operation -- the military, the Baath Party, and the people. If one branch got too uppity, he would instigate the other two against the that one.

** A similar joke was heard by this troper as a Royal Navy Reservist: When the Army are ordered to secure a building they blow it up. When the Marines are ordered to secure a building they storm in, kill everyone, THEN blow it up. When the Navy are ordered to secure a building they lock all the doors and windows. When the Air Force are ordered to secure a building they take out a six month lease. * Italian ''Regia Marina'' (the Navy) versus ''Regia Aeronautica'' (the Air Force) during WorldWarII: the Navy complained that the Air Force was the reason they had no carriers, that they were ''never'' on the battlefield in time and that they weren't very good at [[FriendOrFoe recognizing the British ships]] but not of their inability at sinking battleships, while the Air Force complained that the Navy hoarded all the funds and technically-capable recruits but couldn't defeat the Royal Navy. In a magnificent example of FascistButInefficient, they were both right due the inefficiency of the Fascist government.
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** A similar joke was heard by this troper as a exists among the Royal Navy Reservist: Reserve: When the Army are ordered to secure a building they blow it up. When the Marines are ordered to secure a building they storm in, kill everyone, THEN ''then'' blow it up. When the Navy are ordered to secure a building they lock all the doors and windows. When the Air Force are ordered to secure a building they take out a six month lease. * Italian ''Regia Marina'' (the Navy) versus ''Regia Aeronautica'' (the Air Force) during WorldWarII: World War II: the Navy complained that the Air Force was the reason they had no carriers, that they were ''never'' on the battlefield in time and that while they were very good at sinking battleships, they weren't very good at [[FriendOrFoe recognizing the British ships]] but not of their inability at sinking battleships, which ships were British]], while the Air Force complained that the Navy hoarded all the funds and technically-capable recruits but couldn't defeat the Royal Navy. In a magnificent example of FascistButInefficient, they were both right due the inefficiency of the Fascist government.

* The adoption of machine guns by the British Army could have been done anything up to fifty years earlier, if the Infantry and the Royal Artillery had co-operated. The first machine-guns used by the British had been imported American Gatling Guns, used to deadly effect during the Zulu War in 1879. But as these came on artillery wheeled carriages, the Royal Artillery had insisted these were clearly artillery weapons and part of their inventory. The R.A. also insisted that any subsequent machine guns taken up by the Army be installed on cumbersome wheeled trails - even when countries like France and Germany were issuing their MG's on man-portable lighter carriages and issuing them direct to the infantry units they would support. Machine guns were only taken out of artillery control and issued direct to infantry units in the years immediately preceding WW2.
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* The adoption of machine guns by the British Army could have been done anything up to fifty years earlier, if the Infantry and the Royal Artillery had co-operated. The first machine-guns machine guns used by the British had been imported American Gatling Guns, guns, used to deadly effect during the Zulu War in 1879. But as these came on artillery wheeled carriages, the Royal Artillery had insisted these were clearly artillery weapons and part of their inventory. The R.A. also insisted that any subsequent machine guns taken up by the Army be installed on cumbersome wheeled trails - even when countries like France and Germany were issuing their MG's [=MGs=] on man-portable lighter carriages and issuing them direct to the infantry units they would support. Machine guns were only taken out of artillery control and issued direct to infantry units in the years immediately preceding WW2.WWII.

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* The adoption of machine guns by ** Similar rivalries ended up denying the British Army could have been done anything up to fifty years earlier, if the Infantry and the Royal Artillery had co-operated. The first machine-guns used by the British had been imported American Gatling Guns, used to deadly effect during the Zulu War in 1879. But as these came on artillery wheeled carriages, the Royal Artillery had insisted these were clearly artillery weapons and part of their inventory. The R.A. also insisted that any subsequent machine guns taken up by the Army be installed on cumbersome wheeled trails - even when countries like France and Germany were issuing their MG's on man-portable lighter carriages and issuing them direct Expeditionary Forces access to the infantry Lewis gun when they entered World War I. While they had access to the weapon at that time, with some Marine units they would support. Machine guns were only taken out of artillery control and even being issued direct to infantry units in them before they headed over, the years immediately preceding WW2.AEF's chief of ordnance instead forced the use of the [[ReliablyUnreliableGuns infamously-terrible Chauchat]] because he didn't like Colonel Lewis.
2nd Jan '16 2:21:23 PM ZimFan89
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* At the beginning of the second season of ''Series/AgentsOfShield'', Brigadier General Glenn Talbot, US Air Force, is rather upset to learn that his son said he wanted to join the Navy when he grew up. On a more serious note, a sizable part of that season features Director Coulson trying to resolve the rivalries and outright hostilities between SHIELD and just about everyone else in the post-''Film/CaptainAmericaTheWinterSoldier'' world.
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* At the beginning of the second season of ''Series/AgentsOfShield'', ''Series/AgentsOfSHIELD'', Brigadier General Glenn Talbot, US Air Force, is rather upset to learn that his son said he wanted to join the Navy when he grew up. On a more serious note, a sizable part of that season features Director Coulson trying to resolve the rivalries and outright hostilities between SHIELD and just about everyone else in the post-''Film/CaptainAmericaTheWinterSoldier'' world.world. ** For the first part of season 3, SHIELD also finds itself in conflict with the ATCU, a new organization put together to deal with the widespread outbreak of new Inhumans. Coulson eventually puts together a working compromise between the two groups, saying that he's [[LampshadeHanging tired of fighting people they should be working with.]]
29th Dec '15 8:43:43 PM MAI742
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* Deliberately invoked by UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler, who kept the Luftwaffe, Army, Navy, Waffen-SS, Gestapo, Order Police, Security Police, and Foreign Ministry at each others' throats because he believed in a SocialDarwinist approach to bureaucracy, figuring that competition would result in more radical and effective policy-making. It ''did'' produce radicalization because the threat of being sidelined led all the government agencies to radicalize themselves, and lead to a lot of talented (and amoral) young men joining the various security agencies (2/3 of their senior leaders were under 36 and the same proportion had degrees), but it also led to [[FascistButInefficient gross redundancy and inefficiency.]]
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* Deliberately invoked by UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler, who kept the Luftwaffe, Army, Navy, Waffen-SS, Gestapo, Order Police, Security Police, and Foreign Ministry at each others' throats because he believed in a SocialDarwinist approach to bureaucracy, figuring that competition would result in more radical and effective policy-making. It ''did'' produce radicalization because the threat of being sidelined led all the government agencies to radicalize themselves, and it also lead to a lot of talented (and amoral) young men joining the various security agencies (2/3 of their senior leaders were under 36 and the same proportion had degrees), but it also led to degrees. However, this was more than offset by [[FascistButInefficient gross redundancy and inefficiency.]] UrExample was when in October 1942 the Luftwaffe was authorised to create 20 infantry divisions (250,000 combat troops) for front-line use even though they had no experience with ground combat and most Army divisions were at just 2/3 strength (total strength being just 2 million combat troops of a theoretical 3 million).
29th Dec '15 8:28:57 PM MAI742
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* Deliberately invoked by UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler, who kept the military, SS, and Gestapo at each others' throats so none of them would be in a strong enough position to [[TheStarscream overthrow him and seize control of Germany]]. ** He also believed in a SocialDarwinist approach to bureaucracy, figuring that competition would encourage better quality developments. [[FascistButInefficient All it did was lead to inefficiency.]]
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* Deliberately invoked by UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler, who kept the military, SS, Luftwaffe, Army, Navy, Waffen-SS, Gestapo, Order Police, Security Police, and Gestapo Foreign Ministry at each others' throats so none of them would be in a strong enough position to [[TheStarscream overthrow him and seize control of Germany]]. ** He also because he believed in a SocialDarwinist approach to bureaucracy, figuring that competition would encourage better quality developments. result in more radical and effective policy-making. It ''did'' produce radicalization because the threat of being sidelined led all the government agencies to radicalize themselves, and lead to a lot of talented (and amoral) young men joining the various security agencies (2/3 of their senior leaders were under 36 and the same proportion had degrees), but it also led to [[FascistButInefficient All it did was lead to gross redundancy and inefficiency.]]]]
18th Dec '15 7:02:57 AM Divra
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*** The Space Wolves and Dark Angels have an ancestral grudge, going back to a duel fought between their respective founders ten thousand years earlier. This is nowadays ''mostly'' calm, and more likely to surface as a series of ritualized non-lethal duels, as anything else.
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*** The Space Wolves and Dark Angels have an ancestral grudge, going back to a duel fought between their respective founders ten thousand years earlier. This is nowadays ''mostly'' calm, and a confrontation between them is more likely to surface as end in a series of ritualized non-lethal duels, as anything else.duels and other tests of skill than outright warfare.

** And all of this doesn't even begin to go into the [[RightHandVersusLeftHand tumultuous relationships]] everyone else has with the Inquisition.
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** And all of this doesn't even begin to go into the [[RightHandVersusLeftHand tumultuous relationships]] everyone else has with the Inquisition. Or for that matter, what happens when two Inquisitors (both of whom, in theory, answer to no-one save the Emperor and can demand instant obedience from anyone else) start butting heads.
9th Dec '15 3:33:50 PM TairaMai
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Added DiffLines:
*** In the VietnamWar, there were four or ''five'' air forces depending on how you counted them: Tactical Air Command (USAF), Strategic Air Command (USAF), Army aviation (US Army), NAVAIR (US Navy including the Marines) and the South Vietnamese Air Force. Needless to say, planning was horrid at times since these combat commands had different chains of command.
23rd Nov '15 4:16:33 PM Ramidel
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Added DiffLines:
** This trope is also one of the main reasons that the A-10 Warthog is still in operation. The Air Force hates it, the Army loves it. The Air Force routinely tries to retire the program in favor of a new aircraft, but whenever they float the idea, the Army says that they'll take the A-10s to fly Close Air Support missions if the Air Force doesn't want them. The Air Force then drops the retirement like a hot potato, rather than face the prospect that the Army will be allowed to fly its own fixed-wing aircraft.
1st Nov '15 10:27:26 AM nombretomado
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* A more specific example from British history: during the Victorian Era, the Army was largely divided into two cliques: the "Wolseley Ring" (led by Garnet Wolseley, mostly veterans of African colonial campaigns) and the "Roberts Ring" (after Frederick Lord Roberts, mostly serving in India). These two groups competed for assignments and promotions, leading to serious tension between segments of the military. QueenVictoria favored Roberts, considering Wolseley a shameless self-promoter. Creator/RudyardKipling agreed: his poem "Bobs," a tribute to Roberts, cites as one of his virtues that Roberts "does not advertise," a veiled TakeThat at Wolseley. The public however preferred Wolseley, who was lauded (and satirized) as [[Theater/ThePiratesofPenzance the very model of a (modern major) general]].\\\
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* A more specific example from British history: during the Victorian Era, the Army was largely divided into two cliques: the "Wolseley Ring" (led by Garnet Wolseley, mostly veterans of African colonial campaigns) and the "Roberts Ring" (after Frederick Lord Roberts, mostly serving in India). These two groups competed for assignments and promotions, leading to serious tension between segments of the military. QueenVictoria UsefulNotes/QueenVictoria favored Roberts, considering Wolseley a shameless self-promoter. Creator/RudyardKipling agreed: his poem "Bobs," a tribute to Roberts, cites as one of his virtues that Roberts "does not advertise," a veiled TakeThat at Wolseley. The public however preferred Wolseley, who was lauded (and satirized) as [[Theater/ThePiratesofPenzance the very model of a (modern major) general]].\\\
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