History Main / HotSubOnSubAction

23rd Aug '17 4:19:12 AM StarTropes
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* ''Film/CrimsonTide''

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* ''Film/CrimsonTide''''Film/CrimsonTide'' features a skirmish between the USS ''Alabama'' and a Russian ''Akula''-class hunter-killer. The ''Akula'' is destroyed, but gets off a torpedo that damages the ''Alabama''.
19th Aug '17 2:06:36 PM YT45
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* ''Film/DownPeriscope'' involves a wargame that tests if a rogue UsefulNotes/WorldWarII-era diesel submarine, run by a RagtagBunchOfMisfits, is capable of outmaneuvering the US Navy and cause significant damage to major ports. The diesel's main opponent? A ''[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_class_submarine Los Angeles]]'' class nuclear attack sub. The exercise included two simulated attacks on naval ports where the diesel sub is assumed to do significant damage. The first attack has a scene where the old boat surfaces and launches flares (stand-ins for actual weapons) in sight of two admirals eating dinner. The second one was where Admiral Winslow (Rip Torn) authorised the use of live torpedoes by Lt Commander Tom Dodge (KelseyGrammer), in place of the flares.

to:

* ''Film/DownPeriscope'' involves a wargame that tests if a rogue UsefulNotes/WorldWarII-era diesel submarine, run by a RagtagBunchOfMisfits, is capable of outmaneuvering the US Navy and cause significant damage to major ports. The diesel's main opponent? A ''[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_class_submarine Los Angeles]]'' class nuclear attack sub. The exercise included two simulated attacks on naval ports where the diesel sub is assumed to do significant damage. The first attack has a scene where the old boat surfaces and launches flares (stand-ins for actual weapons) in sight of two admirals eating dinner. The second one was where Admiral Winslow (Rip Torn) authorised the use of live torpedoes by Lt Commander Tom Dodge (KelseyGrammer), (KelseyGrammer) against a target hulk, in place of the flares.
19th Aug '17 2:03:47 PM YT45
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Actually, to the best of our knowledge it has happened just once, during Operation Caesar in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, when HMS ''Venturer'' sank ''U-864''.[[note]] Thankfully, since ''U-864'' was transporting several types of industrial {{Unobtanium}}, advanced vehicle blueprints, and technical experts (back) to Japan.[[/note]] A second example, lacking citation, may have involved the captured German U-Boat later re-launched as HMS ''Morse''.[[note]] The ''Morse'' was used by the Royal Navy to patrol the sea lanes leading back to the German home bases in western France, the intention being for returning German U-Boats, relaxing security on the last stage home, to see nothing more than a friendly submarine - which would then run up the White Ensign and fire a spread of torpedoes at them. The ''Morse'' sank several U-Boats in surface attacks and ''may'' have sunk one while submerged. Thus, ''Venturer'''s U-boat kill remains the only instance of a submarine sinking another submerged submarine.

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Actually, to the best of our knowledge it has happened just once, during Operation Caesar in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, when HMS ''Venturer'' sank ''U-864''.[[note]] Thankfully, since ''U-864'' was transporting several types of industrial {{Unobtanium}}, advanced vehicle blueprints, and technical experts (back) to Japan.[[/note]] A second example, lacking citation, may have involved the captured German U-Boat later re-launched as HMS ''Morse''.[[note]] The ''Morse'' was used by the Royal Navy to patrol the sea lanes leading back to the German home bases in western France, the intention being for returning German U-Boats, relaxing security on the last stage home, to see nothing more than a friendly submarine - which would then run up the White Ensign and fire a spread of torpedoes at them. The ''Morse'' sank several U-Boats in surface attacks and ''may'' have sunk one while submerged. Thus, ''Venturer'''s U-boat kill remains the only instance of a submarine sinking another submerged submarine.
that was submerged.[[/note]]
19th Aug '17 2:02:22 PM YT45
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Actually, to the best of our knowledge it has happened just once, during Operation Caesar in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, when HMS ''Venturer'' sank ''U-864''.[[note]] Thankfully, since ''U-864'' was transporting several types of industrial {{Unobtanium}}, advanced vehicle blueprints, and technical experts (back) to Japan.[[/note]] A second example, lacking citation, may have involved the captured German U-Boat later re-launched as HMS ''Morse''.[[note]] The ''Morse'' was used by the Royal Navy to patrol the sea lanes leading back to the German home bases in western France, the intention being for returning German U-Boats, relaxing security on the last stage home, to see nothing more than a friendly submarine - which would then run up the White Ensign and fire a spread of torpedoes at them. The ''Morse'' sank several U-Boats in surface attacks and ''may'' have sunk one while submerged.[[/note]] There ''were'' multiple instances of submarines sinking other submarines during WWII, but the rest of them involved the victim being ambushed while running on the surface[[note]] Submarines of the era spent most of their time surfaced, where they could run faster on their diesel engines. Submerging required them to switch to electric motors, whose batteries would only last a day (significantly less if they tried running faster than about 4 knots) before requiring a recharge, and which cut their speed in half. Carbon dioxide scrubbers to keep the air breathable were a new and problematic technology, and many submarines didn't even have them, so staying submerged for too long meant asphyxiation.[[/note]]. Thus, ''Venturer'''s U-boat kill remains the only instance of a submarine sinking another submerged submarine.

to:

Actually, to the best of our knowledge it has happened just once, during Operation Caesar in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, when HMS ''Venturer'' sank ''U-864''.[[note]] Thankfully, since ''U-864'' was transporting several types of industrial {{Unobtanium}}, advanced vehicle blueprints, and technical experts (back) to Japan.[[/note]] A second example, lacking citation, may have involved the captured German U-Boat later re-launched as HMS ''Morse''.[[note]] The ''Morse'' was used by the Royal Navy to patrol the sea lanes leading back to the German home bases in western France, the intention being for returning German U-Boats, relaxing security on the last stage home, to see nothing more than a friendly submarine - which would then run up the White Ensign and fire a spread of torpedoes at them. The ''Morse'' sank several U-Boats in surface attacks and ''may'' have sunk one while submerged.[[/note]] There ''were'' multiple instances of submarines sinking other submarines during WWII, but the rest of them involved the victim being ambushed while running on the surface[[note]] Submarines of the era spent most of their time surfaced, where they could run faster on their diesel engines. Submerging required them to switch to electric motors, whose batteries would only last a day (significantly less if they tried running faster than about 4 knots) before requiring a recharge, and which cut their speed in half. Carbon dioxide scrubbers to keep the air breathable were a new and problematic technology, and many submarines didn't even have them, so staying submerged for too long meant asphyxiation.[[/note]]. Thus, ''Venturer'''s U-boat kill remains the only instance of a submarine sinking another submerged submarine.



Of the 52 submarines lost by the U.S. Navy in World War II, at least one - USS ''Corvina'' (SS-226) - was confirmed torpedoed and sunk by a Japanese submarine while running on the surface, while the Japanese lost five submarines to American submarine attacks. Three of the Japanese losses were credited to USS ''Batfish'' during a single three-day period in February 1945. During WWI, a US sub spotted a submerged U-boat and was about to attack it when the ''U-boat'' exploded all on its own; it is surmised that the U-boat attempted to attack the US boat and its torpedo exploded in the tube.

That said, it does reflect actual military doctrine despite the sparsity of major naval conflict since World War II. This is because due to the nature of water acoustics and sonar a submarine has the best chance of successfully detecting another submarine as other real time methods are comparatively deaf. Whilst the crew of the ''Venturer'' only [[AwesomeByAnalysis had paper, pencils and decent maths skills]] to plot a firing solution, modern subs have computers and advanced homing torpedoes - had the UsefulNotes/ColdWar turned hot after the 1960s (not before then), there certainly would have been underwater submarine battles--and in fairness, that is when a large number of such sub battles are set (thank you, Creator/TomClancy!). NATO and Warsaw Pact submarines followed each other about all the time. Current American naval doctrine is to have each carrier battle group (structured around a ''Nimitz''- or ''Gerald Ford'' class supercarrier) accompanied by two [[TypesOfNavalShips nuclear attack submarines (SSN)]] which include enemy sub-killing in their tasking - these are generally known as "Hunter-Killer" submarines.

to:

Of the 52 submarines lost by the U.S. Navy in World War II, at least one - USS ''Corvina'' (SS-226) - was confirmed torpedoed and sunk by a Japanese submarine while running on the surface, while the Japanese lost five submarines to American submarine attacks. Three of the Japanese losses were credited to USS ''Batfish'' during a single three-day period in February 1945. During WWI, a US sub spotted a submerged U-boat off the southern coast of Ireland and was about to attack it when the ''U-boat'' exploded all on its own; it is surmised that the U-boat attempted to attack the US boat and its torpedo exploded in the tube.

tube.

That said, it does reflect actual military doctrine despite the sparsity of major naval conflict since World War II. This is because due to the nature of water acoustics and sonar a submarine has the best chance of successfully detecting another submarine as other real time methods are comparatively deaf. Whilst the crew of the ''Venturer'' only [[AwesomeByAnalysis had paper, pencils and decent maths skills]] to plot a firing solution, modern subs have computers and advanced homing torpedoes - had the UsefulNotes/ColdWar turned hot after the 1960s (not before then), there certainly would have been underwater submarine battles--and in fairness, that is when a large number of such sub battles are set (thank you, Creator/TomClancy!). NATO and Warsaw Pact submarines followed each other about all the time. Current American naval doctrine is to have each carrier battle group (structured around a ''Nimitz''- or ''Gerald Ford'' class supercarrier) accompanied by two [[TypesOfNavalShips nuclear attack submarines (SSN)]] which include enemy sub-killing in their tasking - these are generally known as "Hunter-Killer" submarines. In fact, it's often said that the best defense against submarines in modern warfare is your own submarines, as they can dive beneath thermocline layers that hostile subs would use to hide from surface ships[[note]] The advent of towed sonar arrays has allowed destroyers and similar ships to stream their "ears" beneath the layer, while devices like the US Navy's Prairie Masker system make them much harder to detect, closing the gap considerably. However, submarines remain inherently more stealthy than anything that stays on the surface.[[/note]]
19th Aug '17 1:34:22 PM YT45
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Actually, to the best of our knowledge it has happened just once, during Operation Caesar in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, when HMS ''Venturer'' sank ''U-864''.[[note]] Thankfully, since ''U-864'' was transporting several types of industrial {{Unobtanium}}, advanced vehicle blueprints, and technical experts (back) to Japan.[[/note]] A second example, lacking citation, may have involved the captured German U-Boat later re-launched as HMS ''Morse''.[[note]] The ''Morse'' was used by the Royal Navy to patrol the sea lanes leading back to the German home bases in western France, the intention being for returning German U-Boats, relaxing security on the last stage home, to see nothing more than a friendly submarine - which would then run up the White Ensign and fire a spread of torpedoes at them. The ''Morse'' sank several U-Boats in surface attacks and ''may'' have sunk one while submerged.[[/note]]

to:

Actually, to the best of our knowledge it has happened just once, during Operation Caesar in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, when HMS ''Venturer'' sank ''U-864''.[[note]] Thankfully, since ''U-864'' was transporting several types of industrial {{Unobtanium}}, advanced vehicle blueprints, and technical experts (back) to Japan.[[/note]] A second example, lacking citation, may have involved the captured German U-Boat later re-launched as HMS ''Morse''.[[note]] The ''Morse'' was used by the Royal Navy to patrol the sea lanes leading back to the German home bases in western France, the intention being for returning German U-Boats, relaxing security on the last stage home, to see nothing more than a friendly submarine - which would then run up the White Ensign and fire a spread of torpedoes at them. The ''Morse'' sank several U-Boats in surface attacks and ''may'' have sunk one while submerged.[[/note]]
[[/note]] There ''were'' multiple instances of submarines sinking other submarines during WWII, but the rest of them involved the victim being ambushed while running on the surface[[note]] Submarines of the era spent most of their time surfaced, where they could run faster on their diesel engines. Submerging required them to switch to electric motors, whose batteries would only last a day (significantly less if they tried running faster than about 4 knots) before requiring a recharge, and which cut their speed in half. Carbon dioxide scrubbers to keep the air breathable were a new and problematic technology, and many submarines didn't even have them, so staying submerged for too long meant asphyxiation.[[/note]]. Thus, ''Venturer'''s U-boat kill remains the only instance of a submarine sinking another submerged submarine.
31st Jul '17 9:53:24 AM AnotherDuck
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* The submarine I-401 from ''Manga/ArpeggioOfBlueSteel'' managed to destroy an underwater submarine while under fire by the cruiser Takao, though to be fair I-401 used a WaveMotionGun to achieve it. She comes under torpedo attack from her sister submarines I-400 and I-402 later in the series.
** The Manga lacks the I-401 vs. 400 and 402 battle, but instead contains a battle in which the 401 uses an even ''bigger'' WaveMotionGun to vaporize the tender submarine ''Milchkuh'' from over 10km away.

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* The submarine I-401 from In ''Manga/ArpeggioOfBlueSteel'' managed the main characters are the crew of the submarine I-401, so there are several battles between submarines:
** I-401 manages
to destroy an underwater submarine while under fire by the cruiser Takao, though to be fair I-401 used a WaveMotionGun to achieve it. She comes under torpedo attack from her sister submarines I-400 and I-402 later in the series.
it.
** The Manga lacks the I-401 vs. 400 and 402 battle, but instead contains a battle in which the 401 also uses an even ''bigger'' WaveMotionGun to vaporize the tender submarine ''Milchkuh'' from over 10km away.
** In the anime, I-401 comes under torpedo attack from her sister submarines I-400 and I-402 as one of the more significant battles.
5th Jul '17 1:10:22 AM ArcaneAzmadi
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* "Simpsons Tide", an episode of ''WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons'' where Homer joins the Naval Reserve and is assigned to a nuclear submarine during a war games exercise. Predictably enough, [[HilarityEnsues he ends up in command after shooting the captain out of a torpedo tube (hitting an enemy sub) and nearly starts World War III.]]

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* "Simpsons Tide", [[Recap/TheSimpsonsS9E19SimpsonTide "Simpson Tide"]], an episode of ''WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons'' where Homer joins the Naval Reserve and is assigned to a nuclear submarine during a war games exercise. Predictably enough, [[HilarityEnsues he ends up in command after shooting the captain out of a torpedo tube (hitting an enemy sub) and nearly starts World War III.]]
26th Jun '17 4:32:20 AM jormis29
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* ''TheSilentService''

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* ''TheSilentService''''Manga/TheSilentService''
24th Jun '17 10:02:27 AM nombretomado
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* ''Film/DownPeriscope'' involves a wargame that tests if a rogue UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo-era diesel submarine, run by a RagtagBunchOfMisfits, is capable of outmaneuvering the US Navy and cause significant damage to major ports. The diesel's main opponent? A ''[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_class_submarine Los Angeles]]'' class nuclear attack sub. The exercise included two simulated attacks on naval ports where the diesel sub is assumed to do significant damage. The first attack has a scene where the old boat surfaces and launches flares (stand-ins for actual weapons) in sight of two admirals eating dinner. The second one was where Admiral Winslow (Rip Torn) authorised the use of live torpedoes by Lt Commander Tom Dodge (KelseyGrammer), in place of the flares.
** During the final chase scene, both subs surface to increase their speed. However, in RealLife, this would have only increased the ''Stingray'''s speed and would have ''slowed down'' the ''Orlando''. WorldWarTwo-era subs were designed to be faster on the surface. However, the cucumber shape of modern nuclear subs is best utilized underwater.

to:

* ''Film/DownPeriscope'' involves a wargame that tests if a rogue UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo-era UsefulNotes/WorldWarII-era diesel submarine, run by a RagtagBunchOfMisfits, is capable of outmaneuvering the US Navy and cause significant damage to major ports. The diesel's main opponent? A ''[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_class_submarine Los Angeles]]'' class nuclear attack sub. The exercise included two simulated attacks on naval ports where the diesel sub is assumed to do significant damage. The first attack has a scene where the old boat surfaces and launches flares (stand-ins for actual weapons) in sight of two admirals eating dinner. The second one was where Admiral Winslow (Rip Torn) authorised the use of live torpedoes by Lt Commander Tom Dodge (KelseyGrammer), in place of the flares.
** During the final chase scene, both subs surface to increase their speed. However, in RealLife, this would have only increased the ''Stingray'''s speed and would have ''slowed down'' the ''Orlando''. WorldWarTwo-era UsefulNotes/WorldWarII-era subs were designed to be faster on the surface. However, the cucumber shape of modern nuclear subs is best utilized underwater.
21st Jun '17 7:38:56 AM ChronoLegion
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* Averted in ''VideoGame/PacificFleet'', where only the US Navy has submarines (ignoring RealLife Japanese subs), but possibly played straight in ''Atlantic Fleet'', where both the Brits and the Germans have them. The Germans actually have three sub classes, one of which is a more modern attack sub with faster submerged movement, no deck gun, and rapidly reloading torpedoes (1 turn vs. 3 for others). It's easy enough to set up sub-on-sub single matches, but the dynamic campaign doesn't allow subs to engage one another. Even if one side's fleet might have subs in it in the engagement area, the subs will not participate in said battle. As a rule, Germany will tend to spam subs in the campaign, in order to sink Allied shipping, while the Brits will spam destroyers in order to escort convoys and counter said subs.

to:

* Averted in ''VideoGame/PacificFleet'', where only the US Navy has submarines (ignoring RealLife Japanese subs), but possibly played straight in ''Atlantic Fleet'', where both the Brits and the Germans have them. The Germans actually have three sub classes, one of which is a more modern attack sub with faster submerged movement, movement (still slower than most surface ships, though), no deck gun, and rapidly reloading torpedoes (1 turn vs. 3 for others). It's easy enough to set up sub-on-sub single matches, but the dynamic campaign doesn't allow subs to engage one another. Even if one side's fleet might have subs in it in the engagement area, the subs will not participate in said battle. As a rule, Germany will tend to spam subs in the campaign, in order to sink Allied shipping, while the Brits will spam destroyers in order to escort convoys and counter said subs.
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