History Main / HobbesWasRight

15th Jun '16 8:12:18 PM Stormtroper
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* It often happens that an intellectual will defend a specific tyrant on the basis of the people being uneducated or otherwise unfit for democracy, and thus said tyrant is necessary to maintain order and develop the country. Naturally the tyrant agrees, and may end up encouraging this idea.
3rd Jun '16 5:16:56 PM SpaceWolf
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Named after Thomas Hobbes, who wrote in the 17th-century book ''Leviathan'' that strong, centralized government is necessary to protect mankind from its own base nature and self-serving desires. The trope is based on a [[{{Flanderization}} Flanderized]] version of his Philosophy. Whether this is sometimes TruthInTelevision is [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment probably best left alone]], though it is worth noting that many medieval kings (as an isolated example) had to be strong and bastardly to be effective. Naturally, this opinion goes hand in hand with the belief that HumansAreBastards, possibly HumansAreMorons if the arguments are about the reliability of human judgment if power is left in the hands of the many (though when one considers who the only available candidates for rulership are--[[DontExplainTheJoke namely, members of that same species of bastard morons]]...). Indeed, Rousseau -- the chief defender of the contrary position -- had some choice words for Hobbes (although Hobbes, being dead, couldn't appreciate the insults).

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Named after Thomas Hobbes, who wrote in the 17th-century book ''Leviathan'' that strong, centralized government is necessary to protect mankind from its own base nature and self-serving desires. The trope is based on a [[{{Flanderization}} Flanderized]] version of his Philosophy.philosophy. Whether this is sometimes TruthInTelevision is [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment probably best left alone]], though it is worth noting that many medieval kings (as an isolated example) had to be strong and bastardly to be effective. Naturally, this opinion goes hand in hand with the belief that HumansAreBastards, possibly HumansAreMorons if the arguments are about the reliability of human judgment if power is left in the hands of the many (though when one considers who the only available candidates for rulership are--[[DontExplainTheJoke namely, members of that same species of bastard morons]]...). Indeed, Rousseau -- the chief defender of the contrary position -- had some choice words for Hobbes (although Hobbes, being dead, couldn't appreciate the insults).
23rd May '16 7:04:47 PM WillKeaton
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* Disturbingly, studies have been conducted which find that [[http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?page=full informing the populace of facts actually reinforces their manifestly-incorrect beliefs]], which seems to refute the major principle of democratic societies that, in a free exchange of ideas, the good ones will always win out.

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* Disturbingly, studies have been conducted which find that [[http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?page=full informing the populace of facts actually reinforces their manifestly-incorrect beliefs]], beliefs,]] which seems to refute the major principle of democratic societies that, in a free exchange of ideas, the good ones will always win out.
23rd May '16 7:04:01 PM WillKeaton
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* PlayedForLaughs in an episode of the ''WesternAnimation/EarthwormJim'' animated series. Princess Whatshername establishes a democracy on her homeworld after overthrowing [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Queen]] [[OverlyLongName Pulsating, Bloated, Festering, Sweaty, Pus-Filled, Malformed Slug-for-a-butt]]. The newly liberated aliens all just vote Slugforabutt in as queen again (It didn't occur to anyone that they could or should run against her).

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* PlayedForLaughs in an episode of the ''WesternAnimation/EarthwormJim'' animated series. Princess Whatshername establishes a democracy on her homeworld after overthrowing [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Queen]] [[OverlyLongName Pulsating, Bloated, Festering, Sweaty, Pus-Filled, Malformed Slug-for-a-butt]]. The newly liberated aliens all just vote Slugforabutt in as queen again again. (It didn't occur to anyone that they could or should run against her).her.)
23rd May '16 7:01:52 PM WillKeaton
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* Callidus Dominus and the Malphans from Cynical Classicist's Doctor Who fanfics. Works like "Game of Doctors" and [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10630391/1/Devotee-of-Augustus "Devotee of Augustus"]] show they are acting out of a belief the Eighth Galaxy will be better under benevolent dictatorship. [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9868669/9/Game-of-Doctors Jempewol]], Chapter 9 of GOD, actively shows Dominus thinking this.

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* Callidus Dominus and the Malphans from Cynical Classicist's Doctor Who fanfics. Works like "Game of Doctors" and [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10630391/1/Devotee-of-Augustus "Devotee of Augustus"]] show they are acting out of a belief the Eighth Galaxy will be better under benevolent dictatorship. [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9868669/9/Game-of-Doctors Jempewol]], Jempewol,]] Chapter 9 of GOD, actively shows Dominus thinking this.
23rd May '16 7:01:32 PM WillKeaton
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* In a ''NewspaperComic/BloomCounty'' strip [[http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/assets_c/2010/05/humanity_bl-11775.html seen here]], Binkley is pondering his faith in humanity (as he tends to do a lot), not knowing that Portnoy is about to play a rather nasty prank on him for no real reason, which could possibly prove Hobbes right; however, when Binkley askes the question, "Do you think, deep in our hearts, we're basically ''evil''?" Portnoy stops, thinks about it, and changes his mind. "Nah..." he replies.

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* In a ''NewspaperComic/BloomCounty'' strip [[http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/assets_c/2010/05/humanity_bl-11775.html seen here]], here,]] Binkley is pondering his faith in humanity (as he tends to do a lot), not knowing that Portnoy is about to play a rather nasty prank on him for no real reason, which could possibly prove Hobbes right; however, when Binkley askes the question, "Do you think, deep in our hearts, we're basically ''evil''?" Portnoy stops, thinks about it, and changes his mind. "Nah..." he replies.
16th May '16 4:48:14 AM Morgenthaler
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* Creator/{{Plato}}'s ''Republic'' also argues that democracy, rule of the "hoi polloi" (unwashed masses) is tantamount to mob rule and the best way to go is rule by an enlightened monarch (philosopher-king).

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* Creator/{{Plato}}'s ''Republic'' ''Literature/TheRepublic'' also argues that democracy, rule of the "hoi polloi" (unwashed masses) is tantamount to mob rule and the best way to go is rule by an enlightened monarch (philosopher-king).
14th Apr '16 6:55:16 PM ShiroAkuma
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*** On the other hand, the Chinese Federation is an Empire as well [[spoiler: and falls to a populist uprising lead by the Black Knights.]] The EU does pretty good as well, not dissolving until near the end due to precisely what was mentioned above; internal conflicts over raising an army.

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*** On the other hand, the Chinese Federation is an Empire as well [[spoiler: and falls to a populist uprising lead led by the Black Knights.]] The EU does pretty good as well, not dissolving until near the end due to precisely what was mentioned above; internal conflicts over raising an army.
14th Apr '16 6:53:49 PM ShiroAkuma
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* In ''Anime/CodeGeass'', Schneizel tries to do this, [[spoiler:but loses to Lelouch, who then seemingly does the same thing. Emperor Lelouch uses reprehensible tactics to take over the entire world, uniting every country under his iron first and finally bringing peace to his war-torn planet. In a subversion, Lelouch cultivated a ZeroPercentApprovalRating '''''on purpose''''' and then staged [[ThanatosGambit his own public assassination]], hoping that his stint as an evil overlord would cause the various nations to abandon power-hungry monarchies and dictatorships in favor of diplomatic democracies.]]

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* In ''Anime/CodeGeass'', Schneizel tries to do this, [[spoiler:but loses to Lelouch, who then seemingly does the same thing. Emperor Lelouch uses reprehensible tactics to take over the entire world, uniting every country under his iron first fist and finally bringing peace to his war-torn planet. In a subversion, Lelouch cultivated a ZeroPercentApprovalRating '''''on purpose''''' and then staged [[ThanatosGambit his own public assassination]], hoping that his stint as an evil overlord would cause the various nations to abandon power-hungry monarchies and dictatorships in favor of diplomatic democracies.]]
9th Apr '16 1:43:19 PM 3dgar01
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* In ''Literature/TheZombieKnight'' Helen the queen of [[TheKingdom Atreya]] believes this. When her [[spoiler:brother Luther]] reveals his disdain for monarchies to be the reason why he attempted to bring war to the country she sees him as naive.
-->'''Helen:''' Do you honestly believe such governments can last in earnest? They can be founded on such idealism, perhaps, but it is inevitable that they will give rise to new royalty and be ruled by it. The only difference is that the kings of democracy can hide themselves behind a veil of elected figureheads.
-->'''[[spoiler:Luther:]]''' Did you know she was this cynical?
-->'''David:''' Yes, I did. You would have known as well, if you had ever bothered to get to know her the way a [[spoiler:brother should.]]
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