History Main / HelpingWouldBeKillstealing

22nd May '16 3:43:17 PM Fireblood
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[[folder:Mythology/Theology]]
* This is one of the main solutions to the Teodice problem, the question of how {{God}} can be [[GodIsGood Good]], [[TheOmniscient Omniscient]] and [[InvincibleHero Almighty]] and still allow the world to become as horrible as it is. God is able to make the bad go away, and He does want the bad to go away -- but this desire is counterbalanced by His desire that we will learn to solve our own problems and grow stronger in our free will and virtue.

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[[folder:Mythology/Theology]]
[[folder:Mythology/Religion]]
* This is one of the main solutions to the Teodice problem, Problem of Evil, the question of how {{God}} can be [[GodIsGood Good]], [[TheOmniscient Omniscient]] and [[InvincibleHero Almighty]] and still allow the world to become as horrible as it is. One answer is God is able to make the bad go away, and He does want the bad to go away -- but this desire is counterbalanced by His desire that we will learn to solve our own problems and grow stronger in our free will and virtue.
29th Apr '16 6:00:03 PM grapesandmilk
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Contrast KillSteal and StopHelpingMe. Inverted trope of TheEvilsOfFreeWill.

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Contrast KillSteal and StopHelpingMe.UnwantedAssistance. Inverted trope of TheEvilsOfFreeWill.
21st Apr '16 6:47:03 PM AnotherDuck
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* This is one of the basic principles of teaching martial arts in ''Manga/KenichiTheMightiestDisciple'': it's repeatedly said that a martial arts mentor must not interfere in his (or her) disciple's fight with a non-master fighter, even when the disciple's life is in danger. However, mentors sometimes ''break'' a sparring (i.e. friendly) match when a disciple is in a serious danger. (It happened once to Takeda and once to Kenichi.)
** However, they will avert this trope should the situation truly warrant their intervention, such as if a different disciple's master attacks Kenichi. Or when Kenichi is in a real life-or-death situation, such as when he's attempting to save his sister Honoka from some sharks and is unable to do much about it on his own.

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* This is one of the basic principles of teaching martial arts in ''Manga/KenichiTheMightiestDisciple'': it's repeatedly said that a martial arts mentor must not interfere in his (or her) disciple's fight with a non-master fighter, even when the disciple's life is in danger. However, mentors sometimes ''break'' a sparring (i.e. friendly) match when a disciple is in a serious danger. (It happened once to Takeda and once to Kenichi.)
**
) However, they will avert this trope should the situation truly warrant their intervention, such as if a different disciple's master attacks Kenichi. Or when Kenichi is in a real life-or-death situation, such as when he's attempting to save his sister Honoka from some sharks and is unable to do much about it on his own.



* This is a common mentality in competitive gaming; some players feel that the best way to develop as a player is to learn the ins and outs of a game by oneself, and that resorting to asking other players or reading guides makes one a particularly weak player.



** Averted in the MMO ''GuildWars2'' though, where everyone gets full EXP and loot when a monster dies. In this case, helping becomes ''actually helping'' even if you're only in it for yourself. As a result, having the BigDamnHeroes come charging over the hill to save your beleaguered arse is the rule, not the exception. Considering that some end-game zones are positively overrun with GoddamnedBats, this is most welcome indeed.
** In VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft, the first person to attack a monster and deal damage (this is called "tapping" the target) gets the experience and loot. However, the game automatically reduces the experience award if a majority of the damage was dealt by another player, such as a much more powerful player, specifically to encourage this trope.
* Also occurs in [[FirstPersonShooter FPSs]] and other games where kills equates to points, ranking and sometimes bonuses and experience. Even in team games where theoretically it doesn't matter who on the team gets the kill, the individual rewards can motivate this.
** ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare2'' for example gives powerful killstreak rewards for achieving a certain number of kills in a single life. Some players will get more annoyed at teammates who "help" by killing opponents than at the opponents themselves, especially when they "just needed one more kill for Harriers".

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** * Averted in the MMO ''GuildWars2'' though, where everyone gets full EXP and loot when a monster dies. In this case, helping becomes ''actually helping'' even if you're only in it for yourself. As a result, having the BigDamnHeroes come charging over the hill to save your beleaguered arse is the rule, not the exception. Considering that some end-game zones are positively overrun with GoddamnedBats, this is most welcome indeed.
** * In VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft, the first person to attack a monster and deal damage (this is called "tapping" the target) gets the experience and loot. However, the game automatically reduces the experience award if a majority of the damage was dealt by another player, such as a much more powerful player, specifically to encourage this trope.
* Also occurs in [[FirstPersonShooter FPSs]] and other games where kills equates to points, ranking and sometimes bonuses and experience. Even in team games where theoretically it doesn't matter who on the team gets the kill, the individual rewards can motivate this.
**
''VideoGame/ModernWarfare2'' for example gives powerful killstreak rewards for achieving a certain number of kills in a single life. Some players will get more annoyed at teammates who "help" by killing opponents than at the opponents themselves, especially when they "just needed one more kill for Harriers".



* This is pretty much the only reasonable explanation for why in the climax of [[VideoGame/PokemonDiamondAndPearl Pokémon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum]] the much more qualified [[BigGood Cynthia]] doesn't step up to beat the BigBad into a pulp- even though she's literally standing ''right next to you''- and lets you handle him instead. The ''Manga/PokemonSpecial'' manga averts this by {{nerf}}ing Cynthia so she can take on Cyrus and lose. The show also averts this, since she doesn't just stand on the sidelines while Ash and Co. deal with Team Galactic.

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* ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'':
**
This is pretty much the only reasonable explanation for why in the climax of [[VideoGame/PokemonDiamondAndPearl Pokémon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum]] the much more qualified [[BigGood Cynthia]] doesn't step up to beat the BigBad into a pulp- even though she's literally standing ''right next to you''- and lets you handle him instead. The ''Manga/PokemonSpecial'' manga averts this by {{nerf}}ing Cynthia so she can take on Cyrus and lose. The show also averts this, since she doesn't just stand on the sidelines while Ash and Co. deal with Team Galactic.



* In ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'', this is the reasoning that certain companions give for not being willing to turn on the irradiated water purifier, despite being immune to radiation. The DLC fixes this, with Fawkes the Super Mutant stating that while he would initially say this, you've changed his life so much that he might as well change yours.
** Despite this, the ending cinematic still calls you a coward for not stepping into the chamber yourself. Since when is refusing to die unnecessarily considered cowardice? Mind you, this is a case when no one has to die.
** The developers' explanation for this is that recruitable companions were implemented quite late into the game's development (which also explains why the player character is insistently referred to as "Lone Wanderer").

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* In ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'', this 3}}'':
** This
is the reasoning that certain companions give for not being willing to turn on the irradiated water purifier, despite being immune to radiation. The DLC fixes this, with Fawkes the Super Mutant stating that while he would initially say this, you've changed his life so much that he might as well change yours.
** Despite this, the ending cinematic still calls you a coward for not stepping into the chamber yourself. Since when is refusing to die unnecessarily considered cowardice? Mind you, this is a case when no one has to die.
**
yours. The developers' explanation for this is that recruitable companions were implemented quite late into the game's development (which also explains why the player character is insistently referred to as "Lone Wanderer").



* This is [[Videogame/GalaxyAngel Forte's]] reasoning on not directly helping [[NewMeat Chitose's]] inability for flexible thinking. Left alone, she will cause disaster sooner or later, as evidenced in the aftermath of a particular mission where she froze up, never expecting the freighter she rescued was [[TheInfiltration an enemy in disguise]], despite [[CoverIdentityAnomaly nigh-blatant clues]]. However, telling her directly would most likely backfire, as Forte herself puts it:

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* This In ''Videogame/GalaxyAngel'', this is [[Videogame/GalaxyAngel Forte's]] Forte's reasoning on not directly helping [[NewMeat Chitose's]] inability for flexible thinking. Left alone, she will cause disaster sooner or later, as evidenced in the aftermath of a particular mission where she froze up, never expecting the freighter she rescued was [[TheInfiltration an enemy in disguise]], despite [[CoverIdentityAnomaly nigh-blatant clues]]. However, telling her directly would most likely backfire, as Forte herself puts it:



* What happens to the team in ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice''. Red Tornado, their guardian, points out that they need to solve their problems as a team, rather than have the Justice League come in when things get tough. It also handwaves why the team is on their own so much, even when the League can easily respond to a crisis within minutes.

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* What happens to the team in ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice''. ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice'':
**
Red Tornado, their the team's guardian, points out that they need to solve their problems as a team, rather than have the Justice League come in when things get tough. It also handwaves why the team is on their own so much, even when the League can easily respond to a crisis within minutes.



* A common theme in ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'', especially with Celestia's relationship with her student, Twilight. This trope actually kicks off the show: Celestia could keep teaching and supporting Twilight normally, as she has for the past few years, and Twilight would naturally grow into a famous mage, beloved by Equestria's ruler and goddess. But then she would become dangerously isolated from other ponies, unable to ask for help or work in a group, and she would forget how to relax and have fun. Hence, Celestia sends her to study in the peaceful country town Ponyville, away from Celestia, where Twilight will basically ''have'' to bond with ponies in order to get anything done- and certainly to fight off the evil, ''other'' goddess-pony, who is breaking out of her prison...

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* A common theme in ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'', especially with Celestia's relationship with her student, Twilight. Twilight.
**
This trope actually kicks off the show: Celestia could keep teaching and supporting Twilight normally, as she has for the past few years, and Twilight would naturally grow into a famous mage, beloved by Equestria's ruler and goddess. But then she would become dangerously isolated from other ponies, unable to ask for help or work in a group, and she would forget how to relax and have fun. Hence, Celestia sends her to study in the peaceful country town Ponyville, away from Celestia, where Twilight will basically ''have'' to bond with ponies in order to get anything done- and certainly to fight off the evil, ''other'' goddess-pony, who is breaking out of her prison...
23rd Mar '16 3:51:45 PM NoxSky12599
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* Near the very end of the season finale of ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'', it seems that Q might be about to tell Picard some new secret of the universe... then he smiles, shakes his head, and says confidently, "You'll find out."

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* Near the very end of the season series finale of ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'', it seems that Q might be about to tell Picard some new secret of the universe... then instead he smiles, shakes his head, pulls back, smirks mischievously, and says confidently, "You'll find out."
1st Mar '16 6:51:04 PM Ramona122003
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** The primary reason why Goku refuses to kill Majin Buu when he had the chance. He wanted the younger generation to handle it since he was dead and his friends couldn't depend on him anymore to protect them. It didn't work out so well with the Earth being destroyed along with everyone being killed except Denda, Mr. Satan, and Bee. Although, Goku somewhat got his wish since Buu was finally killed with the help of everyone on Earth giving him energy for a giant Spirit Bomb.

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** The primary reason why Goku refuses to kill Majin Buu when he had the chance. He wanted the younger generation to handle it since he was dead and his friends couldn't depend on him anymore to protect them. It didn't work out so well with the Earth being destroyed along with everyone being killed except Denda, Dende, Mr. Satan, and Bee. Although, Goku somewhat got his wish since Buu was finally killed with the help of everyone on Earth giving him energy for a giant Spirit Bomb.
13th Jan '16 2:29:24 PM margdean56
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** Then there's the median between the two, that God is able to make the bad go away, and He does want the bad to go away -- but He ''refuses'' to do so because ''humanity rejected him''. He does intend to ''eventually'' make the bad go away, but is continuously waiting until the last possible moment so that the maximum amount of people will have a chance to [[HeelFaceTurn turn good]] and be eligible for saving; meanwhile, humanity's screw-ups prove that we need God.

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** Then there's the median between the two, that God is able to make the bad go away, and He does want the bad to go away -- but He ''refuses'' to do so because ''humanity rejected him''. He does intend to ''eventually'' make the bad go away, but is continuously waiting until the last possible moment so that the maximum amount number of people will have a chance to [[HeelFaceTurn turn good]] and be eligible for saving; meanwhile, humanity's screw-ups prove that we need God.
13th Jan '16 2:27:22 PM margdean56
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** The sorcerer Arion shows Superman that he has been coddling mankind for so long that when something comes a long that Superman can't handle, the human race won't stand a chance. By allowing lesser disasters to happen, Arion asserts, Superman would be allowing mankind to strengthen for still more difficult challenges.

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** The sorcerer Arion shows Superman that he has been coddling mankind for so long that when something comes a long along that Superman can't handle, the human race won't stand a chance. By allowing lesser disasters to happen, Arion asserts, Superman would be allowing mankind to strengthen for still more difficult challenges.
12th Dec '15 4:09:11 AM jerodast
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** In VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft, the first person to attack a monster and deal damage (this is called "tapping" the target) gets the experience, loot and credit for any relevant quests. This often leads to people waiting for a monster they need for a daily quest to spawn, and then trying to get the first attack in to get credit, or grouping up to share the kill. ''Cataclysm'' thankfully implemented "shared kills" for most quest-relevant mobs (which have an exclamation mark in their character portrait), so that anyone who deals damage to the quest mob gets to share credit for the kill.

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** In VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft, the first person to attack a monster and deal damage (this is called "tapping" the target) gets the experience, loot experience and credit for any relevant quests. This often leads to people waiting for a monster they need for a daily quest to spawn, and then trying to get loot. However, the first attack in to get credit, or grouping up to share game automatically reduces the kill. ''Cataclysm'' thankfully implemented "shared kills" for most quest-relevant mobs (which have an exclamation mark in their character portrait), so that anyone who deals experience award if a majority of the damage was dealt by another player, such as a much more powerful player, specifically to the quest mob gets to share credit for the kill.encourage this trope.
27th Nov '15 6:55:39 PM Doug86
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* This is one of the basic principles of teaching martial arts in ''KenichiTheMightiestDisciple'': it's repeatedly said that a martial arts mentor must not interfere in his (or her) disciple's fight with a non-master fighter, even when the disciple's life is in danger. However, mentors sometimes ''break'' a sparring (i.e. friendly) match when a disciple is in a serious danger. (It happened once to Takeda and once to Kenichi.)

to:

* This is one of the basic principles of teaching martial arts in ''KenichiTheMightiestDisciple'': ''Manga/KenichiTheMightiestDisciple'': it's repeatedly said that a martial arts mentor must not interfere in his (or her) disciple's fight with a non-master fighter, even when the disciple's life is in danger. However, mentors sometimes ''break'' a sparring (i.e. friendly) match when a disciple is in a serious danger. (It happened once to Takeda and once to Kenichi.)



* Manga/SoulEater:Discussed in the first episode. Shinigami and Spirit watch Maka and Soul struggle with an enemy and Spirit suggests helping them. Death responds that while they ''could'' defeat that enemy "with a single REAPER CHOP", that would not help the kids create a death scythe.

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* Manga/SoulEater:Discussed ''Manga/SoulEater'': Discussed in the first episode. Shinigami and Spirit watch Maka and Soul struggle with an enemy and Spirit suggests helping them. Death responds that while they ''could'' defeat that enemy "with a single REAPER CHOP", that would not help the kids create a death scythe.



* In Novel Volume 3/ Anime episode 8 of ''LightNovel/IsItWrongToTryToPickUpGirlsInADungeon'', this is the reason given for why the Loki Familia [[spoiler:doesn't help Bell defeat the Minotaur]] (there's apparently a rule against adventures interfering in other's battles to enforce this; this is an RPGMechanicsVerse after all). Crosses over into ThisIsSomethingHesGotToDoHimself territory for Aiz and Bete.

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* In Novel Volume 3/ 3 / Anime episode 8 of ''LightNovel/IsItWrongToTryToPickUpGirlsInADungeon'', this is the reason given for why the Loki Familia [[spoiler:doesn't help Bell defeat the Minotaur]] (there's apparently a rule against adventures interfering in other's battles to enforce this; this is an RPGMechanicsVerse after all). Crosses over into ThisIsSomethingHesGotToDoHimself territory for Aiz and Bete.



* A theme that sometimes pops up in {{Superman}}. In one of the more memorable stories, the [[GreenLantern Guardians]] summon Superman and get him to at least consider the possibility that he is coddling mankind. It does cause him to adjust his approach a bit.
** In ''SupermanRedSon'', Superman so coddles the human race that people stop trying to avoid accidents, until ''Lex Luthor'' of all people nails him with an ArmourPiercingQuestion that ''brings him to his knees'':

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* A theme that sometimes pops up in {{Superman}}. Franchise/{{Superman}}. In one of the more memorable stories, the [[GreenLantern [[Franchise/GreenLantern Guardians]] summon Superman and get him to at least consider the possibility that he is coddling mankind. It does cause him to adjust his approach a bit.
** In ''SupermanRedSon'', ''Comicbook/SupermanRedSon'', Superman so coddles the human race that people stop trying to avoid accidents, until ''Lex Luthor'' of all people nails him with an ArmourPiercingQuestion that ''brings him to his knees'':



* Aahz in ''Literature/MythAdventures'' taught Skeeve on an "as the need arises" basis and allowed him to deal with everything they met, keeping his interference as slight as possible unless the situation was very life- and [[strike:purse]] reputation-treatening.

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* Aahz in ''Literature/MythAdventures'' taught Skeeve on an "as the need arises" basis and allowed him to deal with everything they met, keeping his interference as slight as possible unless the situation was very life- and [[strike:purse]] reputation-treatening.reputation-threatening.



* Near the very end of the season finale of ''StarTrekTheNextGeneration'', it seems that Q might be about to tell Picard some new secret of the universe... then he smiles, shakes his head, and says confidently, "You'll find out."

to:

* Near the very end of the season finale of ''StarTrekTheNextGeneration'', ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'', it seems that Q might be about to tell Picard some new secret of the universe... then he smiles, shakes his head, and says confidently, "You'll find out."



* Kreia (as seen in the page quote) lampshades this in ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic II'', when you help people too much; by taking their burdens, you deny them the opportunity to grow strong by themselves. Whilst her take on this trope sounds a lot like the Sith philosophy[[spoiler:, unsurpring given she is a powerful Sith Master,]] even a light-sided player can acknowledge it's a truth that needs to be taken into consideration.

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* Kreia (as seen in the page quote) lampshades this in ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic II'', when you help people too much; by taking their burdens, you deny them the opportunity to grow strong by themselves. Whilst her take on this trope sounds a lot like the Sith philosophy[[spoiler:, unsurpring unsurprising given she is a powerful Sith Master,]] even a light-sided player can acknowledge it's a truth that needs to be taken into consideration.



* Subverted incredibly hard in VideoGame/{{Neverwinter}}, whose mechanics actually encourage going full ChronicHeroSyndrome in any situation. Players who fight monsters get full loot, experience and credit for the kill regardless of whether they're in a group or who landed the killing blow. Heroic Encounters dot most of the higher-level maps and anyone can jump in and join the fray without it hurting anyone's chance of getting good loot. This leads to instances of players stopping to help beat a group of enemies someone else is struggling with very commonplace.

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* Subverted incredibly hard in VideoGame/{{Neverwinter}}, ''VideoGame/{{Neverwinter}}'', whose mechanics actually encourage going full ChronicHeroSyndrome in any situation. Players who fight monsters get full loot, experience and credit for the kill regardless of whether they're in a group or who landed the killing blow. Heroic Encounters dot most of the higher-level maps and anyone can jump in and join the fray without it hurting anyone's chance of getting good loot. This leads to instances of players stopping to help beat a group of enemies someone else is struggling with very commonplace.



* In ''{{Webcomic/Homestuck}}'', this is the reason Rose gives for not killing all John's imps for him.

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* In ''{{Webcomic/Homestuck}}'', ''Webcomic/{{Homestuck}}'', this is the reason Rose gives for not killing all John's imps for him.
27th Oct '15 10:08:15 AM zeroblade386
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Added DiffLines:

** He is immediately called out on this by Piccolo as it is an incredibly stupid idea.
--> '''Piccolo''': Please don't make a habit of doing that.
--> '''Goku''': No promises.
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