History Main / HeelFaceBrainwashing

18th Jan '17 7:28:55 PM rjd1922
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** This theme continues in''Terminator3RiseOfTheMachines'' with the T-850 ''who killed John Connor in the future'' being reprogrammed to [[spoiler: ensure that Connor and his future second in command and wife survive Skynet's opening assault on humanity to form and lead the resistance]].

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** This theme continues in''Terminator3RiseOfTheMachines'' in''Film/Terminator3RiseOfTheMachines'' with the T-850 ''who killed John Connor in the future'' being reprogrammed to [[spoiler: ensure that Connor and his future second in command and wife survive Skynet's opening assault on humanity to form and lead the resistance]].
28th Dec '16 11:26:09 AM MiddleEighth
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Added DiffLines:

*A mild and entirely justified version in ''Fanfic/TheKeysStandAlone: The Soft World''. When ActualPacifist George learns that the lesser Tayhil must unthinkingly obey the commands of a Tayhil Leader (even to the point of committing suicide), he [[VoluntaryShapeshifting becomes one]] so he can order a leaderless group to sail away from the village they just built and set up a new village on a deserted island far away from humans. He also tells them they're not allowed to initiate an attack on humans, though they can defend themselves. Since the alternative to this is an airstrike that would wipe out the entire tribe, he has no moral qualms whatsoever about doing it.
**As an alternative to the continued destruction of the Tayhil, who admittedly are pretty nasty little bastards and the cornerstone of the Black Tower's forces, Paul also proposes somehow capturing all the existing Tayhil Leaders and imprisoning them so the good guys can imitate them and order the entire race to coexist peacefully with humans. Spectrem angrily rejects this as impractical.
25th Dec '16 11:29:21 PM WikiGuardianAngel
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** The discussion generally revolves around emerging neurotechnologies because psychotherapies are very difficult to apply to people who refuse or are not wholeheartedly committed to the therapy, and are limited in what they can effect. Psychotherapeutic treatments have had a notable lack of success in treating psychopaths, because psychopaths do not have a better side to them to appeal to. They have been known to manipulate their therapists to better themselves, or even take advantage of the lessons learned in therapy to [[MasterManipulator better manipulate and con others]] without an iota of the empathy the therapy was supposed to instill.
** Current research suggests that psychopathy at its core is caused by an [[LackOfEmpathy impairment in their emotion processes reaction to the circumstances of others (emotional empathy)]], combined with a largely intact ability to infer the mental states of others (cognitive empathy). This, when combined with a hyperactive reward system and maybe a prefrontal cortex control system that isn't so effective, results in a character who [[TheUnfettered will not consider anyone]] and who is dangerously [[MasterManipulator adept at manipulating others]] in their [[TheHedonist pursuit of pleasure]]. A dysfunctional fear (or attentional system according to some) that fails to activate in dangerous situations makes them socially domineering with no social boundaries and completes the character. Suggested neurotechnological treatments are generally aimed at targeting these abnormally functioning or not functioning systems.

to:

** The discussion generally revolves around emerging neurotechnologies because psychotherapies are very difficult to apply to people who refuse or are not wholeheartedly committed to the therapy, and are limited in what they can effect. Psychotherapeutic treatments have had a notable lack of success in treating psychopaths, because psychopaths do not have a better side to them to appeal to. They have been known to manipulate their therapists to better themselves, or even take advantage of the lessons learned in therapy to [[MasterManipulator [[ManipulativeBastard better manipulate and con others]] without an iota of the empathy the therapy was supposed to instill.
** Current research suggests that psychopathy at its core is caused by an [[LackOfEmpathy impairment in their emotion processes reaction to the circumstances of others (emotional empathy)]], combined with a largely intact ability to infer the mental states of others (cognitive empathy). This, when combined with a hyperactive reward system and maybe a prefrontal cortex control system that isn't so effective, results in a character who [[TheUnfettered will not consider anyone]] and who is dangerously [[MasterManipulator [[ManipulativeBastard adept at manipulating others]] in their [[TheHedonist pursuit of pleasure]]. A dysfunctional feebly working fear system (or attentional system according to some) that fails to activate in dangerous situations makes them reckless and socially domineering with no social boundaries and completes the character. Suggested neurotechnological treatments are generally aimed at targeting these abnormally functioning or not functioning systems.
25th Dec '16 11:24:01 PM WikiGuardianAngel
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** The discussion generally revolves around emerging neurotechnologies because psychotherapies are very difficult to apply to people who refuse or are not wholeheartedly committed to the therapy, and are limited in what they can effect. Psychotherapeutic treatments have had a notable lack of success in treating psychopaths, because psychopaths do not have a better side to them to appeal to. They have been known to manipulate their therapists to better themselves, or even take advantage of the lessons learned in therapy to better manipulate and con others without an iota of the empathy the therapy was supposed to instill.
** Current research suggests that psychopathy at its core is caused by an impairment in their emotion processes reaction to the circumstances of others (emotional empathy), combined with a largely intact ability to infer the mental states of others (cognitive empathy). This, when combined with a hyperactive reward system and maybe a prefrontal cortex control system that isn't so effective, results in a character who [[TheUnfettered will not consider anyone]] when [[Hedonist pursuing pleasure]]. A dysfunctional fear (or attentional system according to some) that fails to activate in dangerous situations makes them socially domineering with no social boundaries and completes the character. Suggested neurotechnological treatments are generally aimed at targeting these systems.

to:

** The discussion generally revolves around emerging neurotechnologies because psychotherapies are very difficult to apply to people who refuse or are not wholeheartedly committed to the therapy, and are limited in what they can effect. Psychotherapeutic treatments have had a notable lack of success in treating psychopaths, because psychopaths do not have a better side to them to appeal to. They have been known to manipulate their therapists to better themselves, or even take advantage of the lessons learned in therapy to [[MasterManipulator better manipulate and con others others]] without an iota of the empathy the therapy was supposed to instill.
** Current research suggests that psychopathy at its core is caused by an [[LackOfEmpathy impairment in their emotion processes reaction to the circumstances of others (emotional empathy), empathy)]], combined with a largely intact ability to infer the mental states of others (cognitive empathy). This, when combined with a hyperactive reward system and maybe a prefrontal cortex control system that isn't so effective, results in a character who [[TheUnfettered will not consider anyone]] when [[Hedonist pursuing and who is dangerously [[MasterManipulator adept at manipulating others]] in their [[TheHedonist pursuit of pleasure]]. A dysfunctional fear (or attentional system according to some) that fails to activate in dangerous situations makes them socially domineering with no social boundaries and completes the character. Suggested neurotechnological treatments are generally aimed at targeting these abnormally functioning or not functioning systems.
25th Dec '16 11:18:27 PM WikiGuardianAngel
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** Current research suggests that psychopathy at its core is caused by an impairment in their emotion processes reaction to the circumstances of others (emotional empathy), combined with a largely intact ability to infer the mental states of others (cognitive empathy). This, when combined with a hyperactive reward system and maybe a prefrontal cortex control system that isn't so effective, results in a character who [[TheUnfetted will not consider anyone]] when [[Hedonist pursuing pleasure]]. Suggested eurotechnological treatments are generally aimed at targeting these systems.

to:

** Current research suggests that psychopathy at its core is caused by an impairment in their emotion processes reaction to the circumstances of others (emotional empathy), combined with a largely intact ability to infer the mental states of others (cognitive empathy). This, when combined with a hyperactive reward system and maybe a prefrontal cortex control system that isn't so effective, results in a character who [[TheUnfetted [[TheUnfettered will not consider anyone]] when [[Hedonist pursuing pleasure]]. A dysfunctional fear (or attentional system according to some) that fails to activate in dangerous situations makes them socially domineering with no social boundaries and completes the character. Suggested eurotechnological neurotechnological treatments are generally aimed at targeting these systems.
25th Dec '16 11:12:43 PM WikiGuardianAngel
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Added DiffLines:

** Current research suggests that psychopathy at its core is caused by an impairment in their emotion processes reaction to the circumstances of others (emotional empathy), combined with a largely intact ability to infer the mental states of others (cognitive empathy). This, when combined with a hyperactive reward system and maybe a prefrontal cortex control system that isn't so effective, results in a character who [[TheUnfetted will not consider anyone]] when [[Hedonist pursuing pleasure]]. Suggested eurotechnological treatments are generally aimed at targeting these systems.
25th Dec '16 10:59:29 PM WikiGuardianAngel
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* There are ethical philosophical debates surrounding the ethics of reforming criminals with [[TheSociopath antisocial/ psychopathic]] personalities into [[HeelFaceBrainwashing better and more moral people]] without the consent of the subject. This discussion often extends to whether [[MotivationOnAStick offering incentives]] such as a reduced sentence for accepting treatment is coercive, and in what circumstances is less than complete informed consent acceptable. With emerging understanding of the neural mechanisms behind empathy, kindness, morality, and immoral and antisocial behavior and the nascent but improving means to, via methods such as psychoactive drugs, [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurofeedback neurofeedback]] and neural stimulation, affect and modify these processes, these debates are becoming more relevant as neurologically altering the soul [[ScienceMarchesOn comes closer to reality]].

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* There are ethical philosophical debates surrounding the ethics of reforming criminals with [[TheSociopath antisocial/ psychopathic]] personalities into [[HeelFaceBrainwashing better nicer and more moral people]] without the consent of the subject. This discussion often extends to whether [[MotivationOnAStick offering incentives]] such as a reduced sentence for accepting treatment is coercive, and in what circumstances is less than complete informed consent acceptable. With emerging understanding of the neural mechanisms behind empathy, kindness, morality, and immoral and antisocial behavior and the nascent but improving means to, via methods such as psychoactive drugs, [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurofeedback neurofeedback]] and neural stimulation, affect and modify these processes, these debates are becoming more relevant as neurologically altering the soul [[ScienceMarchesOn comes closer to reality]].reality]].
**The discussion generally revolves around emerging neurotechnologies because psychotherapies are very difficult to apply to people who refuse or are not wholeheartedly committed to the therapy, and are limited in what they can effect. Psychotherapeutic treatments have had a notable lack of success in treating psychopaths, because psychopaths do not have a better side to them to appeal to. They have been known to manipulate their therapists to better themselves, or even take advantage of the lessons learned in therapy to better manipulate and con others without an iota of the empathy the therapy was supposed to instill.
30th Nov '16 8:54:26 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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It should be noted that if any kind of brainwashing is successful in turning a person from one side to the opposing side, the brainwashee will often automatically consider the change (by virtue of the brainwashing itself) to be a HeelFaceTurn, no matter what the real case is. If their memories are intact, then generally their personality and values are changed so that they now [[HeelRealization see their past actions in a different light]], and may [[TearsOfRemorse feel remorseful over them]].

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It should be noted that if any kind of brainwashing is successful in turning a person from one side to the opposing side, the brainwashee will often automatically consider the change (by virtue of the brainwashing itself) to be a HeelFaceTurn, no matter what the real case is. If their memories are intact, then generally their personality and values are changed change so that they now [[HeelRealization see their past actions in a different light]], and may [[TearsOfRemorse feel remorseful over them]].



* The moral ambiguity of this is played up ''hard'' in ''Comicbook/SupermanRedSon'', where after his ship landed in the [=USSR=] instead of Kansas, Kal-El became a champion of the Soviet Union. Superman only wants peace but has little trouble eliminating free will to get it, and believes that brain-washing and overwriting a person's personality is far more humane a solution than gulags or prison camps. It's slowly made clear that due to his different upbringing, this Superman sees free will as more of a problem than anything else and seeks peace and perfection at the sake of choice.

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* The moral ambiguity of this is played up ''hard'' in ''Comicbook/SupermanRedSon'', where after his ship landed in the [=USSR=] instead of Kansas, Kal-El became a champion of the Soviet Union. Superman only wants peace but has little trouble [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill eliminating free will will]] to get it, and believes that brain-washing and overwriting a person's personality is far more humane a solution than gulags or prison camps. It's slowly made clear that due to his different upbringing, this Superman sees free will as more of a problem than anything else and [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans seeks peace and perfection at the sake of choice.choice]].



* Done in XiaolinShowdown, where the [[MirrorMoraliryMachine Yin-Yang Yoyo]], when only one half is used, induces an [[HeelFaceRevolvingDoor alternating]] [[HeelFaceTurn Heel-Face]] or [[FaceHeelTurn Face-Heel]] turn whenever the user exits the Yin-Yang World.
** Jack Spicer becomes nice and joins the Xiaolin side one time when he uses the Yang-Yoyo, becoming helpful to the point of being annoying to the protagonists. Later when nice Jack uses the Yin-Yoyo to help his friends, even knowing he will turn back to his original self, it is a sad farewell.

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* Done Happens in XiaolinShowdown, where the [[MirrorMoraliryMachine Yin-Yang Yoyo]], when using only one half is used, of the [[MirrorMoralityMachine Yin-Yang Yoyo]] induces an [[HeelFaceRevolvingDoor alternating]] alternating [[HeelFaceTurn Heel-Face]] or [[FaceHeelTurn Face-Heel]] turn [[HeelFaceRevolvingDoor whenever the user exits the Yin-Yang World.
World]].
** Jack Spicer unintentionally becomes nice and joins the Xiaolin side one time when he uses the Yang-Yoyo, becoming helpful to the point of being annoying to the protagonists. Later when nice Jack uses the Yin-Yoyo to help his friends, even knowing though he knows he will turn back to his original self, it is it's treated as kind of a sad farewell.



* There are ethical philosophical debates surrounding the ethics of reforming criminals with [[TheSociopath antisocial/ psychopathic]] personalities into [[HeelFaceBrainwashing better and more moral people]] without the consent of the subject. This discussion often extends to whether [[MotivationOnAStick offering incentives]] such as a reduced sentence for accepting treatment is coercive, and in what circumstances is less than complete informed consent acceptable. With emerging understanding of the neural mechanisms behind empathy, altruism, moral, and immoral and antisocial behavior and the nascent but improving means to, via methods such as psychoactive drugs, [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurofeedback neurofeedback]] and neural stimulation, affect and modify these processes, these debates are becoming more relevant as neurologically altering the soul [[ScienceMarchesOn comes closer to reality]].

to:

* There are ethical philosophical debates surrounding the ethics of reforming criminals with [[TheSociopath antisocial/ psychopathic]] personalities into [[HeelFaceBrainwashing better and more moral people]] without the consent of the subject. This discussion often extends to whether [[MotivationOnAStick offering incentives]] such as a reduced sentence for accepting treatment is coercive, and in what circumstances is less than complete informed consent acceptable. With emerging understanding of the neural mechanisms behind empathy, altruism, moral, kindness, morality, and immoral and antisocial behavior and the nascent but improving means to, via methods such as psychoactive drugs, [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurofeedback neurofeedback]] and neural stimulation, affect and modify these processes, these debates are becoming more relevant as neurologically altering the soul [[ScienceMarchesOn comes closer to reality]].
30th Nov '16 5:29:08 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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On occasion, is intentionally invoked by the villain as part of a MemoryGambit. May be induced with a MirrorMoralityMachine. This trope is usually reserved for villains who otherwise would be a CompleteMonster. It actually may be the only thing that can redeem a CompleteMonster. The brainwashing can sometimes involve MindRape or (oddly) a CareBearStare, though not always. However, if it ''does'' involve MindRape, expect even more BlackAndGreyMorality. Compare BrainwashingForTheGreaterGood and {{Deprogram}}ming and contrast FaceMonsterTurn.

to:

On occasion, is intentionally invoked by the villain as part of a MemoryGambit. May be induced with a MirrorMoralityMachine. This trope is usually reserved for villains who otherwise would be a CompleteMonster. It actually may be the only thing that can redeem a CompleteMonster. The brainwashing can sometimes involve MindRape or (oddly) (when the story is LighterAndFluffier) a CareBearStare, though not always. However, if it ''does'' involve MindRape, expect even more BlackAndGreyMorality. May result in a MyGodWhatHaveIDone moment when the villain reflects on his past actions. Compare BrainwashingForTheGreaterGood and {{Deprogram}}ming and contrast FaceMonsterTurn.


Added DiffLines:

* Done in XiaolinShowdown, where the [[MirrorMoraliryMachine Yin-Yang Yoyo]], when only one half is used, induces an [[HeelFaceRevolvingDoor alternating]] [[HeelFaceTurn Heel-Face]] or [[FaceHeelTurn Face-Heel]] turn whenever the user exits the Yin-Yang World.
** Jack Spicer becomes nice and joins the Xiaolin side one time when he uses the Yang-Yoyo, becoming helpful to the point of being annoying to the protagonists. Later when nice Jack uses the Yin-Yoyo to help his friends, even knowing he will turn back to his original self, it is a sad farewell.
30th Nov '16 4:59:44 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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** This continues in [[''Terminator3RiseOfTheMachines'']] with the T-850 ''who killed John Connor in the future'' being reprogrammed to [[Spoiler: ensure that Connor and his future second in command survive Skynet's opening assault on humanity to form and lead the resistance]].

to:

** This theme continues in [[''Terminator3RiseOfTheMachines'']] in''Terminator3RiseOfTheMachines'' with the T-850 ''who killed John Connor in the future'' being reprogrammed to [[Spoiler: [[spoiler: ensure that Connor and his future second in command and wife survive Skynet's opening assault on humanity to form and lead the resistance]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.HeelFaceBrainwashing