History Main / HeWhoFightsMonsters

17th Aug '16 9:45:50 PM Dravencour
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The "fighting monsters" line represents what is a recognizable MoralEventHorizon for heroes, and both {{AntiHero}}es and {{Well Intentioned Extremist}}s live just near the boundary, especially the more pitiless GoodIsNotNice, [[TheUnfettered Unfettered]], PragmaticHero types. Engaging in VanHelsingHateCrimes is a good indicator of having ''crossed'' the boundary and a KnightTemplar is most certainly beyond it.

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The "fighting monsters" line represents what is a recognizable MoralEventHorizon for heroes, and both {{AntiHero}}es {{Antihero}}es and {{Well Intentioned Extremist}}s live just near the boundary, especially the more pitiless GoodIsNotNice, [[TheUnfettered Unfettered]], PragmaticHero types. Engaging in VanHelsingHateCrimes is a good indicator of having ''crossed'' the boundary and a KnightTemplar is most certainly beyond it.
5th Aug '16 8:02:32 PM Chickeon
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The "fighting monsters" line represents what is a recognizable MoralEventHorizon for heroes, and both {{antihero}}es and {{Well Intentioned Extremist}}s live just near the boundary, especially the more pitiless GoodIsNotNice, [[TheUnfettered Unfettered]], PragmaticHero types. Engaging in VanHelsingHateCrimes is a good indicator of having ''crossed'' the boundary and a KnightTemplar is most certainly beyond it.

As expected, this twisted situation is very popular in the Revenge {{Tragedy}} genre, especially because of its inherent DramaticIrony [[note]]Nietzsche himself was also inspired by Ancient Greek tragic antihero archetypes; see also his first book ''The Birth of Tragedy''[[/note]]. This trope can also be used to demonstrate how "eye-for-an-eye" justice, while sounding like sweet [[CallItKarma Karmic]] EquivalentExchange Justice at first, can [[CycleOfRevenge easily spiral out]] into [[ForWantOfANail utter chaos]] if the hero lets his passions, wrath, and {{Pride}} forego rationality.

Not to be confused with CompleteMonster, although somebody can well become one by fighting such monsters. They can range from {{AntiHero}} to anywhere above. See also CycleOfRevenge, TheDarkSideWillMakeYouForget, ProtagonistJourneyToVillain, YouAreWhatYouHate, ThenLetMeBeEvil, and BecameTheirOwnAntithesis. If this trope happens to a child, it can be used as a FreudianExcuse. Compare AndThenJohnWasAZombie, where the character becomes a literal monster. IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim is pretty much a sped-up version of this. Political equivalents are TheHorseshoeEffect, ReignOfTerror, FullCircleRevolution, and MeetTheNewBoss. If the monster in question is an animal, that's AnimalNemesis. If the monster is supernatural, it's a decidedly ''un''heroic instance of TheHunter. Subtrope of SlowlySlippingIntoEvil.

to:

The "fighting monsters" line represents what is a recognizable MoralEventHorizon for heroes, and both {{antihero}}es {{AntiHero}}es and {{Well Intentioned Extremist}}s live just near the boundary, especially the more pitiless GoodIsNotNice, [[TheUnfettered Unfettered]], PragmaticHero types. Engaging in VanHelsingHateCrimes is a good indicator of having ''crossed'' the boundary and a KnightTemplar is most certainly beyond it.

As expected, this twisted situation is very popular in the Revenge {{Tragedy}} genre, especially because of its inherent DramaticIrony [[note]]Nietzsche himself was also inspired by Ancient Greek tragic antihero archetypes; see also his first book ''The Birth of Tragedy''[[/note]]. This trope can also be used to demonstrate how "eye-for-an-eye" justice, while sounding like sweet [[CallItKarma Karmic]] EquivalentExchange Justice at first, can [[CycleOfRevenge easily spiral out]] into [[ForWantOfANail utter chaos]] if the hero lets his passions, wrath, and {{Pride}} forego forgo rationality.

Not to be confused with CompleteMonster, although somebody can well become one by fighting such monsters. They can range from {{AntiHero}} {{Anti Hero}} to anywhere above. See also CycleOfRevenge, TheDarkSideWillMakeYouForget, ProtagonistJourneyToVillain, YouAreWhatYouHate, ThenLetMeBeEvil, and BecameTheirOwnAntithesis. If this trope happens to a child, it can be used as a FreudianExcuse. Compare AndThenJohnWasAZombie, where the character becomes a literal monster. IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim is pretty much a sped-up version of this. Political equivalents are TheHorseshoeEffect, ReignOfTerror, FullCircleRevolution, and MeetTheNewBoss. If the monster in question is an animal, that's AnimalNemesis. If the monster is supernatural, it's a decidedly ''un''heroic instance of TheHunter. Subtrope of SlowlySlippingIntoEvil.
4th Aug '16 8:17:02 PM TheDogSage
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Added DiffLines:

* Bismuth from WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse is this due to her making a weapon designed to kill her enemies (Homeworld Gems) with has plans to commit genocide against them and will destroy anyone who stands in her way (even allies), thus becoming as bad as the Homeworld Gems she fights against who have done the same against their enemies and allies.
19th Jul '16 3:57:52 AM Morgenthaler
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* The Vatican and Aesir churches of ''CryHavoc'' level cities to destroy a handful of daemons. Although, seeing as the last time their foes congregated, a decade long war that killed half of the worlds population occurred, they may be more justified than most.
%%%* ''DominicDeegan'', with Karnak.

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* The Vatican and Aesir churches of ''CryHavoc'' ''Webcomic/CryHavoc'' level cities to destroy a handful of daemons. Although, seeing as the last time their foes congregated, a decade long war that killed half of the worlds population occurred, they may be more justified than most.
%%%* ''DominicDeegan'', ''Webcomic/DominicDeegan'', with Karnak.
17th Jul '16 8:45:12 AM nombretomado
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* ''BittersweetCandyBowl'': After years of taking {{Tsundere}}-ish abuse from Lucy, Mike finally, shall we say, "gets her back" by not only [[spoiler:turning her down, but eventually ''[[KickTheDog brutally and deliberately destroying]]'' any trace of their relationship, professional or otherwise]]. The problem is, [[spoiler:Lucy has already gone through ''extreme'' CharacterDevelopment by this point, so Mike's actions [[DespairEventHorizon cause her to spiral into a deep, near suicidal depression,]]]] [[TookALevelInJerkass which makes him as bad, if not WORSE to her than she ever was to him.]]

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* ''BittersweetCandyBowl'': ''Webcomic/BittersweetCandyBowl'': After years of taking {{Tsundere}}-ish abuse from Lucy, Mike finally, shall we say, "gets her back" by not only [[spoiler:turning her down, but eventually ''[[KickTheDog brutally and deliberately destroying]]'' any trace of their relationship, professional or otherwise]]. The problem is, [[spoiler:Lucy has already gone through ''extreme'' CharacterDevelopment by this point, so Mike's actions [[DespairEventHorizon cause her to spiral into a deep, near suicidal depression,]]]] [[TookALevelInJerkass which makes him as bad, if not WORSE to her than she ever was to him.]]
17th Jun '16 4:44:56 PM Ebrbfureh
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-->-- '''Creator/FriedrichNietzsche''', ''Beyond Good and Evil''

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-->-- -->— '''Creator/FriedrichNietzsche''', ''Beyond Good and Evil''



Usually, [[AntiVillain not quite a villain]], but they act antagonistically enough that [[AntiHero they're little better]]. Something has happened to our FallenHero: his [[DoomedHometown village was destroyed]], [[EverybodysDeadDave his friends killed]], [[AndYourLittleDogToo his puppy roasted on an open spit]], [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking his bike stolen]], whatever. All that matters is that ItsPersonal, and he feels that the law just isn't suitable enough (or has become [[BadCopIncompetentCop too corrupt and ignorant]]) to be of any use to him in settling the matter. He may justify his actions by claiming that it's [[KnightTemplar Justice]] he's after, not vengeance, but anyone with half a brain can easily see that he's out for {{revenge}}... unfortunately, we can also see that the more he hunts the cause of his woes, [[FaceHeelTurn the more he takes on]] [[ThisIsYourBrainOnEvil the villain's personality and mannerisms]] -- something that our "[[{{Hypocrite}} hero]]" is too blinded by his single-minded goal to realize.

Our avenger may have [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]] -- the fiend may well be too dangerous to be kept alive -- but ultimately, his [[AmbitionIsEvil obsession]] with dealing out [[PayEvilUntoEvil due punishment]] ([[DisproportionateRetribution or worse]]) and his refusal to think about what he's doing twists him into a monster [[NotSoDifferent just as bad as]], or even worse than, the one he's hunting. And [[MoralEventHorizon even before he gets to that point]], it's nigh-impossible to turn him away; [[WhatTheHellHero calling him out on it]] will be ignored or [[ShutUpKirk retaliated against]]. ThePowerOfFriendship and ThePowerOfLove were lost to him the moment [[TheCallKnowsWhereYouLive the atrocity that sent him on his wild goose chase]] happened; he feels that TeamSpirit is just a hindrance, and that LoveIsAWeakness that he can't afford to have. [[HeelRealization Heel realizations]] will be [[IgnoredEpiphany ignored]]. Don't expect him to make a HeroicSacrifice or HeelFaceTurn anytime soon; if he dies in the process of bringing his nemesis down, it's usually with him crossing into Villainstown in his moment of glory. If he [[StartOfDarkness doesn't die...]]

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Usually, [[AntiVillain not quite a villain]], but they act antagonistically enough that [[AntiHero they're little better]]. Something has happened to our FallenHero: his [[DoomedHometown village was destroyed]], [[EverybodysDeadDave his friends killed]], [[AndYourLittleDogToo his puppy roasted on an open spit]], [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking his bike stolen]], whatever. All that matters is that ItsPersonal, and he feels that the law just isn't suitable enough (or has become [[BadCopIncompetentCop too corrupt and ignorant]]) to be of any use to him in settling the matter. He may justify his actions by claiming that it's [[KnightTemplar Justice]] he's after, not vengeance, but anyone with half a brain can easily see that he's out for {{revenge}}... unfortunately, we can also see that the more he hunts the cause of his woes, [[FaceHeelTurn the more he takes on]] [[ThisIsYourBrainOnEvil the villain's personality and mannerisms]] -- something mannerisms]]—something that our "[[{{Hypocrite}} hero]]" is too blinded by his single-minded goal to realize.

Our avenger may have [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]] -- the intentions]]—the fiend may well be too dangerous to be kept alive -- but alive—but ultimately, his [[AmbitionIsEvil obsession]] with dealing out [[PayEvilUntoEvil due punishment]] ([[DisproportionateRetribution or worse]]) and his refusal to think about what he's doing twists him into a monster [[NotSoDifferent just as bad as]], or even worse than, the one he's hunting. And [[MoralEventHorizon even before he gets to that point]], it's nigh-impossible to turn him away; [[WhatTheHellHero calling him out on it]] will be ignored or [[ShutUpKirk retaliated against]]. ThePowerOfFriendship and ThePowerOfLove were lost to him the moment [[TheCallKnowsWhereYouLive the atrocity that sent him on his wild goose chase]] happened; he feels that TeamSpirit is just a hindrance, and that LoveIsAWeakness that he can't afford to have. [[HeelRealization Heel realizations]] will be [[IgnoredEpiphany ignored]]. Don't expect him to make a HeroicSacrifice or HeelFaceTurn anytime soon; if he dies in the process of bringing his nemesis down, it's usually with him crossing into Villainstown in his moment of glory. If he [[StartOfDarkness doesn't die...]]



* In Myth/JapaneseMythology, a person who kills many {{Youkai}} will be transformed into a youkai. This occasionally gets played around with in games, manga, and anime from the country -- for example, in ''LaPucelle'', this is the basis for a NonStandardGameOver, one that gets taken more or less as canon in the ''Franchise/{{Disgaea}}'' series. And in ''Manga/InuYasha'', the murderous Bankotsu of the Band of Seven manages to transform his weapon into a demonic blade by using it to kill 1000 youkai and 1000 human warlords. It also shows up in ''Manga/{{Saiyuki}}'', where it's a part of Hakkai's backstory.

to:

* In Myth/JapaneseMythology, a person who kills many {{Youkai}} will be transformed into a youkai. This occasionally gets played around with in games, manga, and anime from the country -- for country—for example, in ''LaPucelle'', this is the basis for a NonStandardGameOver, one that gets taken more or less as canon in the ''Franchise/{{Disgaea}}'' series. And in ''Manga/InuYasha'', the murderous Bankotsu of the Band of Seven manages to transform his weapon into a demonic blade by using it to kill 1000 youkai and 1000 human warlords. It also shows up in ''Manga/{{Saiyuki}}'', where it's a part of Hakkai's backstory.



-->"I never understood what's supposed to be so bad about that... I mean, I'd see that the abyss is deep, and the abyss'd see that I'm shallow - but it's not like I've been denying that, anyway..."

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-->"I never understood what's supposed to be so bad about that... I mean, I'd see that the abyss is deep, and the abyss'd see that I'm shallow - but shallow—but it's not like I've been denying that, anyway..."



* In ''Webcomic/GirlGenius'', the main reason that the BigBad the Other, aka Lucrezia Mongfish, is so reviled is her use of [[MindRape mind-control via slaver wasp]] - if one [[NightmareFuel flies into your mouth]], you become susceptible to any order given by her - one character is ordered to die, [[http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061113#.Vvqv8OIrLIU and does so immediately]]. [[WellIntentionedExtremist Baron Wulfenbach]] is her main enemy, with the stated aim of destroying her and all her work, no matter what it takes. Which makes his [[GrandTheftMe personality overlay]] onto [[spoiler: his son, Gil]] extremely hypocritical, especially since this is ''[[NotSoDifferent the exact same thing]]'' that Lucrezia did to [[spoiler: her daughter Agatha]]. It's called out by the BigBad herself in comic, that in trying to protect [[spoiler: Gil]] from her influence he's ended up becoming just as bad as she is.

to:

* In ''Webcomic/GirlGenius'', the main reason that the BigBad the Other, aka Lucrezia Mongfish, is so reviled is her use of [[MindRape mind-control via slaver wasp]] - if wasp]]—if one [[NightmareFuel flies into your mouth]], you become susceptible to any order given by her - one her—one character is ordered to die, [[http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061113#.Vvqv8OIrLIU and does so immediately]]. [[WellIntentionedExtremist Baron Wulfenbach]] is her main enemy, with the stated aim of destroying her and all her work, no matter what it takes. Which makes his [[GrandTheftMe personality overlay]] onto [[spoiler: his son, Gil]] extremely hypocritical, especially since this is ''[[NotSoDifferent the exact same thing]]'' that Lucrezia did to [[spoiler: her daughter Agatha]]. It's called out by the BigBad herself in comic, that in trying to protect [[spoiler: Gil]] from her influence he's ended up becoming just as bad as she is.
8th Jun '16 3:10:51 AM thecarolinabull01
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** Compared to Squidward, who openly hates [=SpongeBob=] and doesn't bother hiding it, Mrs. Puff is a docile, well meaning character whose nerves have slowly been worn at by Spongebob's antics. Several episodes have shown her take increasingly desperate and sometimes unscrupulous measures just to finally get away from him.

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** Compared to Squidward, who openly hates [=SpongeBob=] and doesn't bother hiding it, Mrs. Puff is was a docile, well meaning character whose nerves have slowly been worn at by Spongebob's antics. Several episodes have shown her take increasingly desperate and sometimes unscrupulous measures just to finally get away from him and in one episode, she outright tried to ''murder'' him.
4th Jun '16 3:31:46 AM Morgenthaler
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* ''WesternAnimation/RobotChicken'' does an extrapolation of ''RevengeOfTheNerds'' and points out how what the Nerds do is worse that what was done to them, and that what they did was in fact illegal.

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* ''WesternAnimation/RobotChicken'' does an extrapolation of ''RevengeOfTheNerds'' ''Film/RevengeOfTheNerds'' and points out how what the Nerds do is worse that what was done to them, and that what they did was in fact illegal.
22nd May '16 11:38:26 AM Dravencour
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Our avenger may have [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]] -- the fiend may well be too dangerous to be kept alive -- but ultimately, his [[AmbitionIsEvil obsession]] with dealing out [[PayEvilUntoEvil due punishment]] ([[DisproportionateRetribution or worse]]) and his refusal to think about what he's doing twists him into a monster [[NotSoDifferent just as bad as]], or even worse than, the one he's hunting. And [[MoralEventHorizon even before he gets to that point]], it's nigh-impossible to turn him away; [[WhatTheHellHero calling him out on it]] will be ignored or [[ShutUpKirk retaliated against]]. ThePowerOfFriendship and ThePowerOfLove were lost to him the moment [[TheCallKnowsWhereYouLive the atrocity that sent him on his wild goose chase]] happened; he feels that TeamSpirit is just a hindrance, and LoveIsAWeakness that he can't afford to have. [[HeelRealization Heel realizations]] will be [[IgnoredEpiphany ignored]]. Don't expect him to make a HeroicSacrifice or HeelFaceTurn anytime soon; if he dies in the process of bringing his nemesis down, it's usually with him crossing into Villainstown in his moment of glory. If he [[StartOfDarkness doesn't die...]]

to:

Our avenger may have [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]] -- the fiend may well be too dangerous to be kept alive -- but ultimately, his [[AmbitionIsEvil obsession]] with dealing out [[PayEvilUntoEvil due punishment]] ([[DisproportionateRetribution or worse]]) and his refusal to think about what he's doing twists him into a monster [[NotSoDifferent just as bad as]], or even worse than, the one he's hunting. And [[MoralEventHorizon even before he gets to that point]], it's nigh-impossible to turn him away; [[WhatTheHellHero calling him out on it]] will be ignored or [[ShutUpKirk retaliated against]]. ThePowerOfFriendship and ThePowerOfLove were lost to him the moment [[TheCallKnowsWhereYouLive the atrocity that sent him on his wild goose chase]] happened; he feels that TeamSpirit is just a hindrance, and that LoveIsAWeakness that he can't afford to have. [[HeelRealization Heel realizations]] will be [[IgnoredEpiphany ignored]]. Don't expect him to make a HeroicSacrifice or HeelFaceTurn anytime soon; if he dies in the process of bringing his nemesis down, it's usually with him crossing into Villainstown in his moment of glory. If he [[StartOfDarkness doesn't die...]]
22nd May '16 11:37:49 AM Dravencour
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Our avenger may have [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]] -- the fiend may well be too dangerous to be kept alive -- but ultimately, his [[AmbitionIsEvil obsession]] with dealing out [[PayEvilUntoEvil due punishment]] ([[DisproportionateRetribution or worse]]) and his refusal to think about what he's doing twists him into a monster [[NotSoDifferent just as bad as]], or even worse than, the one he's hunting. And [[MoralEventHorizon even before he gets to that point]], it's nigh-impossible to turn him away; [[WhatTheHellHero calling him out on it]] will be ignored or [[ShutUpKirk retaliated against]]. ThePowerOfFriendship and ThePowerOfLove were lost to him the moment [[TheCallKnowsWhereYouLive the atrocity that sent him on his wild goose chase]] happened, and he feels that TeamSpirit is just a hindrance; [[HeelRealization Heel realizations]] will be [[IgnoredEpiphany ignored]]. Don't expect him to make a HeroicSacrifice or HeelFaceTurn anytime soon; if he dies in the process of bringing his nemesis down, it's usually with him crossing into Villainstown in his moment of glory. If he [[StartOfDarkness doesn't die...]]

to:

Our avenger may have [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]] -- the fiend may well be too dangerous to be kept alive -- but ultimately, his [[AmbitionIsEvil obsession]] with dealing out [[PayEvilUntoEvil due punishment]] ([[DisproportionateRetribution or worse]]) and his refusal to think about what he's doing twists him into a monster [[NotSoDifferent just as bad as]], or even worse than, the one he's hunting. And [[MoralEventHorizon even before he gets to that point]], it's nigh-impossible to turn him away; [[WhatTheHellHero calling him out on it]] will be ignored or [[ShutUpKirk retaliated against]]. ThePowerOfFriendship and ThePowerOfLove were lost to him the moment [[TheCallKnowsWhereYouLive the atrocity that sent him on his wild goose chase]] happened, and happened; he feels that TeamSpirit is just a hindrance; hindrance, and LoveIsAWeakness that he can't afford to have. [[HeelRealization Heel realizations]] will be [[IgnoredEpiphany ignored]]. Don't expect him to make a HeroicSacrifice or HeelFaceTurn anytime soon; if he dies in the process of bringing his nemesis down, it's usually with him crossing into Villainstown in his moment of glory. If he [[StartOfDarkness doesn't die...]]
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