History Main / GreyAndGrayMorality

19th Jul '16 2:37:28 PM Daethalion
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* The conflict of ''Franchise/{{Dune}}'' starts out as an example of BlackAndWhiteMorality between the prominent Houses of [[HonorBeforeReason Atreides]] and [[CardCarryingVillain Harkonnen]] (with a little help from the Emperor to tilt the outcome in his favor), but very quickly veers into grey territory once Paul throws his lot in with the [[ProudWarriorRace Fremen.]] And that's just the first book. Eventually the series' focus expands to include multiple factions with varying shades of grey who are all more or less just trying to do what they think is best for their own people, as well as the few gifted with prescience who are [[IDidWhatIHadToDo trying to do what's best]] for ''the human species''. And then the [[RapePillageAndBurn Honored Matres]] show up.
19th Jul '16 12:45:27 PM Fangusu
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* KurtVonnegut states in the introduction to ''Welcome to the Monkey House'' that this is one of the guiding principles of his work: there are no villains, just people with conflicting interests. His characters don't tend to be heroic either.
13th Jul '16 9:04:32 AM AireDaleDogz
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* A main theme of ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'', according to its creators, is that almost nobody is truly good or truly evil. Antagonists aren't permanent, and are all multi-faceted with a chance of [[HeelFaceTurn redemption]]. The protagonists also have the capacity to become [[FaceHeelTurn malicious and harmful]]. However, they are very unlikely to become largely 'evil' compared to 'evil' characters becoming 'good', making the show lean slightly towards WhiteAndGreyMorality at times.
12th Jul '16 5:04:45 AM matteste
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** ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'' is perhaps the game in the series that plays this trope the straightest. Neutral has often been ALighterShadeOfGrey in contrast the the other factions, ''Final'' on the other hand portrays neutral in a much darker light. It also goes out of its way to [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct]] the typical Neutral ending as well.
11th Jul '16 12:17:38 PM PhiSat
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** Similarly, in ''Anime/PrincessMononoke'' the closest faction to pure evil is probably the government and one could argue it wasn't the government, but a few bad seeds working for the government that caused issues.

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** Similarly, in ''Anime/PrincessMononoke'' neither the townspeople or the spirits are particularly good or evil. They're simply working towards different goals. The closest faction to pure evil is probably the government and one could argue it wasn't the government, but a few bad seeds working for the government that caused issues.
11th Jul '16 12:16:20 PM PhiSat
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** Similarly, in ''Anime/PrincessMononoke'' the closest faction to pure evil is probably the government and one could argue it wasn't the government, but a few bad seeds working for the government that caused issues.
8th Jul '16 10:12:54 PM wname8037
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* ''Manga/DeathNote'' is this way for sure; {{Light|IsNotGood}} [[AGodAmI Yagami]] is a homicidal VillainProtagonist who kills criminals on a global scale, and actively manipulates or murders anyone who gets in the way of his mission; [[PragmaticHero L]] is a coldly logic-driven SympatheticInspectorAntagonist whose investigation methods include befriending serial killers and ColdBloodedTorture. Both of them, however, have the same basic goal: to defeat what they see as evil. You can hardly blame them for that, even if their methods are more than questionable.
** [[spoiler:This carries on to the second half of the series as well, which follows L's death. While Light has definitely done a lot of horrible things by this point, he's arguably more devoted to his vision of a utopia than ever, since the world is finally starting to accept Kira as the ultimate law. Meanwhile, L's successors, Near and Mello are even more underhanded and ruthless than L was, but they're arguably saving the world from being crushed under the grip of a dangerously unhinged tyrant. In fact, in the manga's climax Near [[LampshadeHanging lampshades]] the series' GreyandGrayMorality quite eloquently.]]

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* ''Manga/DeathNote'' is this way for sure; {{Light|IsNotGood}} [[AGodAmI Yagami]] is a homicidal VillainProtagonist who kills criminals on a global scale, and actively manipulates or murders anyone who gets in the way of his mission; [[PragmaticHero L]] is a coldly logic-driven SympatheticInspectorAntagonist whose investigation methods include befriending serial killers and ColdBloodedTorture. Both of them, however, have the same basic goal: to defeat what they see as evil. You can hardly blame them for that, even if their methods are more than questionable.
** [[spoiler:This carries on to the second half of the series as well, which follows L's death. While Light has definitely done a lot of horrible things by this point, he's arguably more devoted to his vision of a utopia than ever, since the world is finally starting to accept Kira as the ultimate law. Meanwhile, L's successors, Near and Mello are even more underhanded and ruthless than L was, but they're arguably saving the world from being crushed under the grip of a dangerously unhinged tyrant. In fact, in the manga's climax Near [[LampshadeHanging lampshades]] the series' GreyandGrayMorality quite eloquently.]]



* ''ComicBook/VForVendetta'': V is a WellIntentionedExtremist trying to bring down the brutally fascist Norsefire regime and its LawfulStupid… Well-Intentioned Extremists. V was portrayed as ALighterShadeOfGrey but still an UnscrupulousHero, and the ending pulled no punches about the fact that while getting rid of Norsefire was a good thing in the long run, the short to medium term consequences were ''not'' going to be pretty.

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* ''ComicBook/VForVendetta'': V is a WellIntentionedExtremist trying to bring down the brutally fascist Norsefire regime and its LawfulStupid… Well-Intentioned Extremists. V was portrayed as ALighterShadeOfGrey but still an UnscrupulousHero, NominalHero, and the ending pulled no punches about the fact that while getting rid of Norsefire was a good thing in the long run, the short to medium term consequences were ''not'' going to be pretty.
7th Jun '16 7:09:30 PM Greg636
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* And, of course, the tradition continues into ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}}''. The Brotherhood of Steel have reverted back to their former conservatism, becoming arrogant, xenophobic, tech-grabbing conquerors who are pushing their way into the Boston region and who are characterised by extreme FantasticRacism. The Minutemen are unambiguously good guys, but are notably inefficient, to the point of being virtually extinct at the game's start. The Institute are xenophobic manipulators who want to destroy all remnants of the "old world" and reshape the Commonwealth into what they want it to be -- but who prize innovation and scientific discovery, and want to create a world superior to the old one. Lastly, the Railroad seem to be good guys who oppose the slavery and oppression of Synths, who they believe are sentient beings, but the methods they'll use and the lengths they'll go to in order to achieve their goals are a little extreme... There's also the fact that [[spoiler:the only ending in the game which doesn't involve you betraying and killing your BigBad son is through siding with the Institute, and doing so will mean you'll have to wipe out the sympathetic, helpful Railroad who helped you find him.]]

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* And, of course, the tradition continues into ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}}''. The Brotherhood of Steel have reverted back to their former conservatism, becoming arrogant, xenophobic, tech-grabbing conquerors who are pushing their way into the Boston region and who are characterised by extreme FantasticRacism. However, they also dedicate themselves to wiping out real threats such as feral ghouls and mutants (as well as synths and non-feral ghouls) and actually have the military power to ensure security. The Minutemen are unambiguously good guys, but are notably inefficient, to the point of being virtually extinct at the game's start. Also, with the player character at the helm early on, ultimately the player's motivations dictate the course of the faction. The Institute are xenophobic manipulators who want to destroy all remnants of the "old world" and reshape the Commonwealth into what they want it to be -- but who prize innovation and scientific discovery, and want to create a world superior to the old one. Lastly, the Railroad seem to be good guys who oppose the slavery and oppression of Synths, who they believe are sentient beings, but they care very little for the Commonwealth as a whole and the methods they'll use and the lengths they'll go to in order to achieve their goals are a little extreme... There's also the fact that [[spoiler:the only ending in the game which doesn't involve you betraying and killing your BigBad son is through siding with the Institute, and doing so will mean you'll have to wipe out the sympathetic, helpful Railroad who helped you find him.]]
5th Jun '16 11:29:47 PM t209
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* ''WesternAnimation/CaptainPlanetAndThePlaneteers'': The episode "If It's Doomsday, This Must Be Belfast" explores this. One of the villains, [[ForTheEvulz for the heck of it]] plants a nuclear bomb in three areas of ethnic conflict, and gives detonators to one member of each side, in an attempt to prove humanity will destroy itself. The individuals from each conflict act petty, stubborn, and have their fingers on the button at one point. But neither side is portrayed as truly malicious, just a product of conflicts that go back generations. And when shown a vision of nuclear war, they agree to dismantle the nukes.

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* ''WesternAnimation/CaptainPlanetAndThePlaneteers'': The episode "If It's Doomsday, This Must Be Belfast" explores this. One of the villains, [[ForTheEvulz for the heck of it]] plants a nuclear bomb in three areas of ethnic conflict, and gives detonators to one member of each side, in an attempt to prove humanity will destroy itself. The individuals from each conflict act petty, stubborn, and have their fingers on the button at one point. But neither side is portrayed as truly malicious, just a product of conflicts that go back generations. And when shown a vision of nuclear war, they agree to dismantle the nukes. This would have been a fine message had it not for the [[SoBadItsGood poor but unintetionally hilarious writings]] (Turning what would be an analysis on sectarian conflict into a WestSideStory-esque gang feud), [[ArtisticLicense little (or lack of)research]] (Usage of Fenian Prots instead of its usage as separate terms of Fenian for Catholic and Prots for Protestants) , and [[WhatTheHellIsThatAccent ridiculous dialogue]]for the Belfast inhabitants.
5th Jun '16 4:51:53 PM DoctorTItanX
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In an all-grey conflict, neither side is [[BlackAndWhiteMorality totally good or completely evil]]. Both sides have a strong, justifiable reason for fighting, and contain a mixture of people of all kinds, from admirable, upstanding individuals to vicious, slimy scumbags.

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In an all-grey conflict, neither side is [[BlackAndWhiteMorality totally good or nor completely evil]]. Both sides have a strong, justifiable reason for fighting, and contain a mixture of people of all kinds, from admirable, upstanding individuals to vicious, slimy scumbags.



* ''LightNovel/ACertainMagicalIndex'': Neither the Magic nor the Science side are portrayed as entirely good or evil. Both sides do very shady things behind public eye and do what they think is best for everyone. Some characters in each side are [[AntiHero Anti Heroes]] at best while others are KnightTemplar or WellIntentionedExtremist at worst.

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* ''LightNovel/ACertainMagicalIndex'': Neither the Magic nor the Science side are portrayed as entirely good or nor evil. Both sides do very shady things behind public eye and do what they think is best for everyone. Some characters in each side are [[AntiHero Anti Heroes]] at best while others are KnightTemplar or WellIntentionedExtremist at worst.
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