History Main / GreyAndGrayMorality

23rd Sep '16 10:41:19 AM darkabomination
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* A main theme of ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'', according to its creators, is that almost nobody is truly good or truly evil. Antagonists aren't permanent, and are all multi-faceted with a chance of [[HeelFaceTurn redemption]]. The protagonists also have the capacity to become [[FaceHeelTurn malicious and harmful]]. However, they are very unlikely to become largely 'evil' compared to 'evil' characters becoming 'good', making the show lean slightly towards WhiteAndGreyMorality at times.

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* A main theme of ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'', according to its creators, is that almost nobody is truly good or truly evil. Antagonists aren't permanent, and are all multi-faceted with a chance of [[HeelFaceTurn redemption]]. The protagonists also have the capacity to become [[FaceHeelTurn malicious and harmful]]. However, they are very unlikely to become largely 'evil' compared to 'evil' characters becoming 'good', making the show lean slightly towards WhiteAndGreyMorality at times. The major theme of season 3 is showing that while the Crystal Gems were fighting for a good cause against Homeworld's imperialist conquering, Gems on both sides suffered a lot during the Gem war. Rose Quartz was always implied to have done many questionable things during her time, with Garnet saying out right that she kept many secrets from them. As Bismuth's reappearance in the present day proved, the decisions of a leader are never easy. When Bismuth presented her with a weapon known as the Breaking Point that was capable of shattering Gems, effectively fragmenting their beings into several self-aware pieces that are subjected to AFateWorseThanDeath, Rose wouldn't stand for the thought of shattering as it would taint her belief that all life was worth giving a chance and making them no better than the Diamonds. Bismuth understandably upset seeing her friends broken in battle and having her creation rejected, faught Rose to take back the weapon for herself, forcing Rose to bubble Bismuth who was too dangerous to be set free. Yet she never told any of the Crystal Gems what happened to their friend, making them believe she was lost. For all that, Jasper reveals a few episodes later during one hell of a VillainousBreakdown that the vicious, uncaring soldier who spared no pity for others came back to Earth to get revenge on Rose for shattering Pink Diamond, an act equivalent to deicide in Homeworld society. As a Ruby and later Garnet confirmed, Rose went against her own morals because she felt it was for the greater good, so that Earth, humanity, the Crystal Gems, and Steven to exist, compromises had to be done. And for all that, the Homeworld Gems who faught in the war are crushed to know that all their sacrifice and centuries of fighting were for nothing. As Greg said back in season 1, "There's no such thing as a good war, Kiddo."
12th Sep '16 1:13:20 AM DoctorTItanX
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* ''LightNovel/MaoyuuMaouYuusha'' deconstructs the BlackAndWhiteMorality prevalent in many other fantasy works when the Demon Queen reveals the truth to the Hero about the human-demon conflict: neither side are wholly good or evil, just the individuals and their actions. On one hand, the war helped unite feuding kingdoms against a common enemy. On the other hand, opportunists came in to exploit civilians and get rich off the war. Both the Demon Queen and the Hero, who can pride themselves of ALighterShadeOfGrey, now set off to cut through the war and find a more peaceful solution.

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* ''LightNovel/MaoyuuMaouYuusha'' deconstructs the BlackAndWhiteMorality prevalent in many other fantasy works when the Demon Queen reveals the truth to the Hero about the human-demon conflict: neither side are wholly good or nor evil, just the individuals and their actions. On one hand, the war helped unite feuding kingdoms against a common enemy. On the other hand, opportunists came in to exploit civilians and get rich off the war. Both the Demon Queen and the Hero, who can pride themselves of ALighterShadeOfGrey, now set off to cut through the war and find a more peaceful solution.



* The fraternity from ''Film/{{Neighbors|2014}}'', especially Teddy, are depicted surprisingly sympathetically, while Mac and Kelly do some pretty dark things during the feud. Neither side comes across as fully bad or fully good.

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* The fraternity from ''Film/{{Neighbors|2014}}'', especially Teddy, are depicted surprisingly sympathetically, while Mac and Kelly do some pretty dark things during the feud. Neither side comes across as fully bad or nor fully good.
8th Sep '16 2:52:03 AM Elfkaiser
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* In regards to the [[WeAreStrugglingTogether conflict between the five main factions]] of ''VideoGame/{{Battleborn}}'', each faction is nuanced in general.
** The UPR are altruistic soldiers dedicated to rescuing and protecting refugees fleeing from the Varelsi threat. However beneath this otherwise good face, the faction has a dark side, one which is steeped in bureaucracy, draconian law enforcement, and even forbidden genetic experimentation and clone soldier production. This has led them to doing some hard and questionable decisions such as an forceful attempt to set a base on Ekkunar in the past until they were driven off by the Eldrid. Furthermore, where the other factions can be characterized by their position on how to save Solus, the UPR's focus is squarely on the preservation of life, no matter the cost even if the star is lost.
** The Eldrid are firm believers of being in harmony with natural laws of the universe. They prefer to simply observe, preserve, and catalog all that they can find and be one with nature rather than impose upon it. Although that maybe the case, their beliefs at its core are more the reverence of the natural order of the cosmos itself and less of life. They believe that the universe should be left alone to run its course even if it means natural death and entropy. As such, they greatly oppose anything that would disrupt the natural order of the universe even going so far in some cases as to attack or sabotage the efforts of certain other factions regardless of whatever these factions' motives may be.
** The LLC are a aristocratic merchant class focused solely on making a profit even at end of the universe. They sell weapons and such to the other factions regardless of the cost as long as they get paid. On top of that, even the kindest of the LLC members have an air of aristocracy, entitlement, and affluence that cannot completely be shed; whether that means a daily assumption that someone is there to clean your dress, or firmware-held beliefs that all beings of lesser classes must be eliminated to raise the value of the remaining universe. While they certainly wish to preserve the universe, if it were to come to a sudden and dramatic end, the LLC would be the group selling tickets to the live stream to watch the last battle.
** The Rogues are the truest form of outcasts, rejects and wanderers from every civilization and walk of life. They are vagabonds, pirates, raiders, mercenaries, hermits –beings who value personal freedom over anything else. For some Rogues, that freedom means a life of freeing possessions from other people. For other Rogues, it just means living in isolation, free from the rules, restrictions, and conflict of the rest of the universe. While not every Rogue is a criminal, certainly there are a few who just want to be left alone, but most Rogues value freedom and pleasure, sometimes in that order. The Rogues are wild, weird, and individualistic however despite their differences, the Rogues share one thing in common: They do want to survive. They have all spent their lives trying to avoid capture or destruction, and now that their home, the Last Star, is threatened, many of them will put their criminal empires on hold in order to turn their attentions to the real enemies – Rendain and the Varelsi.
** The Jennerit are the bad guys among the five factions. They're pragmatic and ruthless, more than willing to manipulate and control anything and everything to accomplish their goals and achieve what they view as perfect. They even go so far as to bend the natural laws of the universe in order to gain things such as immortal life. What they can't control or fix to fit their concepts of perfection, they destroy. The Jennerit are in essence everything associated with a stereotypical evil empire. Despite this however, they are not necessarily "the bad guys". Although they fit the bill, not all of them are evil. It's just that they're not nice and have rather "flexible ethics". The Jennerit did ally with the other factions against the Varelsi as the strongest military force before Rendain betrayed everyone and decided to have the Jennerit switch sides. Even then though, the Jennerit are split within Rendain's Imperium between those who follow him and those who rebel against him. In fact, Rendain himself is not exactly evil as he's ultimately driven by a desire to save something of the universe from what he perceives as inevitable even if it means screwing everyone else.
** Also a DeconstructedTrope since the quirks and traits of all of these factions are what forced people like [[OnlySaneMan Trevor Ghalt]] and the [[TitleDrop titular]] [[RagTagBunchOfMisfits Battleborn]] on trying to stem the tide of Valresi rather than entering in [[WeAreStrugglingTogether pointless war against each other]] out of both resources and bitterness.
6th Sep '16 3:17:44 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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** The main Baratheon family is a mixed bag, because King Robert is shown as a charismatic ruler who is at least GenreSavvy enough to surround himself with able advisers. On the other hand, his son [[spoiler:(by his wife Cersei through BrotherSisterIncest with Jaime)]] Joffrey is psychotic, immature and capricious, with his only redeeming trait being his yearning to win his father's approval.

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** The main Baratheon family is a mixed bag, because King Robert is shown as a charismatic ruler who is at least GenreSavvy savvy enough to surround himself with able advisers. On the other hand, his son [[spoiler:(by his wife Cersei through BrotherSisterIncest with Jaime)]] Joffrey is psychotic, immature and capricious, with his only redeeming trait being his yearning to win his father's approval.
25th Aug '16 6:31:27 AM StFan
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* ''Literature/BlackCompany'' by Glen Cook at best. Most prevalent in the first book, and then appearing here and there throughout the series.

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* ''Literature/BlackCompany'' ''Literature/TheBlackCompany'' by Glen Cook at best. Most prevalent in the first book, and then appearing here and there throughout the series.
24th Aug '16 1:22:02 PM romanatorX
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* ''WesternAnimation/CaptainPlanetAndThePlaneteers'': The episode "If It's Doomsday, This Must Be Belfast" explores this. One of the villains, [[ForTheEvulz for the heck of it]] plants a nuclear bomb in three areas of ethnic conflict, and gives detonators to one member of each side, in an attempt to prove humanity will destroy itself. The individuals from each conflict act petty, stubborn, and have their fingers on the button at one point. But neither side is portrayed as truly malicious, just a product of conflicts that go back generations. And when shown a vision of nuclear war, they agree to dismantle the nukes. This would have been a fine message had it not for the [[SoBadItsGood poor but unintetionally hilarious writings]] (Turning what would be an analysis on sectarian conflict into a WestSideStory-esque gang feud), [[ArtisticLicense little (or lack of)research]] (Usage of Fenian Prots instead of its usage as separate terms of Fenian for Catholic and Prots for Protestants) , and [[WhatTheHellIsThatAccent ridiculous dialogue]]for the Belfast inhabitants.

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* ''WesternAnimation/CaptainPlanetAndThePlaneteers'': The episode "If It's Doomsday, This Must Be Belfast" explores this. One of the villains, [[ForTheEvulz for the heck of it]] plants a nuclear bomb in three areas of ethnic conflict, and gives detonators to one member of each side, in an attempt to prove humanity will destroy itself. The individuals from each conflict act petty, stubborn, and have their fingers on the button at one point. But neither side is portrayed as truly malicious, just a product of conflicts that go back generations. And when shown a vision of nuclear war, they agree to dismantle the nukes. This would have been a fine message had it not for the [[SoBadItsGood poor but unintetionally unintentionally hilarious writings]] (Turning writing]] (turning what would be an analysis on sectarian conflict into a WestSideStory-esque gang feud), [[ArtisticLicense little (or lack of)research]] (Usage of) research]] (usage of Fenian Prots instead of its usage as separate terms of Fenian for Catholic and Prots for Protestants) , Protestants), and [[WhatTheHellIsThatAccent ridiculous dialogue]]for dialogue]] for the Belfast inhabitants.
24th Aug '16 11:57:43 AM DarkHunter
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* In ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'', the central conflict in the game is extremely lacking in details, but what details we do know ultimately make it an example of this. The conflict between Fire and Dark seems clear-cut at first, but we're shown numerous instances of how LightIsNotGood and DarkIsNotEvil throughout the games. On the other hand we're also shown numerous instances of LightIsGood and DarkIsEvil at the same time. The message of the games seems to be that ''anything'' can be an evil, corrupting influence if taken too far.

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* In ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'', the central conflict in the game is extremely lacking in details, but what details we do know ultimately make it an example of this. The conflict between Fire and Dark seems clear-cut at first, but we're shown numerous instances of how LightIsNotGood and DarkIsNotEvil throughout the games. On the other hand we're also shown numerous instances of LightIsGood and DarkIsEvil at the same time. The message of the games seems to be that ''anything'' both sides have their place in the world, and are capable of good things, but both can also be an evil, a destructive, corrupting influence if taken too far.
24th Aug '16 11:55:06 AM DarkHunter
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* In ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'', the central conflict in the game is extremely lacking in details, but what details we do know ultimately make it an example of this.

to:

* In ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'', the central conflict in the game is extremely lacking in details, but what details we do know ultimately make it an example of this. The conflict between Fire and Dark seems clear-cut at first, but we're shown numerous instances of how LightIsNotGood and DarkIsNotEvil throughout the games. On the other hand we're also shown numerous instances of LightIsGood and DarkIsEvil at the same time. The message of the games seems to be that ''anything'' can be an evil, corrupting influence if taken too far.
22nd Aug '16 11:39:32 PM Kazmahu
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* ''VideoGame/XenobladeChroniclesX'' takes a very "choices and consequences" approach to morality in its many, many sidequest dialog options, and the road to hell is truly paved with good intentions - sometimes being a dick is the only way to minimize the body count, and the people involved may or may not sympathize with this after the fact. This comes to a head late in the plot when [[spoiler:Elma points a gun at a traitor and Rook, unbidden by the player, will join Lin in [[GoThroughMe standing between them]] because they find said traitor's story sympathetic. The thing is, the ''player'' might very well be on Elma's side, and a very strong case can be made that it's irresponsible of everyone involved not to put a bullet in the traitor on the spot when you weigh one tragic story against humanity's survival. And to cap it off, what at the time is an ambiguous situation or message about humanity [[BrokenAesop proves Elma completely right]] when the traitor's actions later compromise or destroy the subject of humanity's entire efforts thus far.]]
20th Aug '16 4:34:11 AM IHateAlmostEverything
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* ''LightNovel/CrestOfTheStars''. Both warring factions are morally ambiguous: Leaders of [[TheEmpire Humankind Em]][[SpaceElves pire Abh]] want to establish everlasting peace and prosperity, but they try to achieve it by [[GalacticConqueror conquering the Galaxy]] and subjugating humankind to their benevolent but authoritarian reign, which, among other things, deprives them of freedom of interstellar travel. On other hand, their enemies, [[TheFederation United Humankind]] want to preserve their independence and freedom of space travel and trade, but they are prone to use underhanded tactics against Abh, are blatantly racist towards them and plan to enslave Abh after the war is over.
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